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Dawn of War III


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Will there be Squats? 

 

I believe they were all consumed by one of the Hive Fleets according to canon, strange to have Ratlings and what have you but no Squats for some reason. Probably just another means of helping to distinguish the Fantasy and 40k brands, like with the disappearance of the Zoats and other elements from Rogue Trader.

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Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.

I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin.

 

Tea for the teapot!

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Looks a little more stylised than DOW 2, but about on par with the first game, though obviously when the guard are introduced verismilitude rises as they are the "gritty reality" of the 40k universe.

 

I have to admit that one of the thing i'm bothered about is the opening inclusion of the Eldar, they are almost always treated just like every other faction, when in truth they cannot afford the losses other can, and that naturally alters their gambits: They wait, they plot, they manipulate and only deploy when they are certain of victory, out of necessity as much as good strategic sense. The Guard and Orks can swamp their foes, the Astartes can strike swiftly and pull victory out of defeat, but the Eldar should be used more judiciously than in earlier DOWs where one could slaughter thouands, a loss that any Craftworld could not easily endure.

Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.

I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin.

 

Tea for the teapot!

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Looks a little more stylised than DOW 2, but about on par with the first game, though obviously when the guard are introduced verismilitude rises as they are the "gritty reality" of the 40k universe.

 

I have to admit that one of the thing i'm bothered about is the opening inclusion of the Eldar, they are almost always treated just like every other faction, when in truth they cannot afford the losses other can, and that naturally alters their gambits: They wait, they plot, they manipulate and only deploy when they are certain of victory, out of necessity as much as good strategic sense. The Guard and Orks can swamp their foes, the Astartes can strike swiftly and pull victory out of defeat, but the Eldar should be used more judiciously than in earlier DOWs where one could slaughter thouands, a loss that any Craftworld could not easily endure.

 

It would be an interesting mechanic to introduce if the eldar were more individually powerful than other races, and pulled out of a battle due to losses.  I remember in the first DOW, screwing up, allowing the eldar to build themselves up and setting up this perimeter of gatling guns around my base with over a hundred space marines mowing down about 10 eldar per second, while my hero units assaulted their base.  I made it, but it was a bit frustrating.  And I kinda felt bad, because I probably killed so many eldar it permanently changed the colour of the planets topsoil.

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I also seem to remember Warp Spiders wiping the floor with Terminator squads 1vs1 in the original Dawn of War. God knows I had my share of laughs when my favourite space elf ninja clowns soloed Grey Knights in Dark Crusade (which may be lore accurate given that a Shadowseer and a Death Jester were able to wreck the faces of the Adeptus Custodes in one 40K novel).

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Quote
"All of life’s lessons come with a price…
We may learn a lesson, and things may get better in the end…
So that’s the trade off…life experience for exhaustion… wisdom for innocence.
There may be a happy ending to our stories…
but we paid for that with little pieces of our souls and we will never get those back."

-Austin Lunn

 

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Eldar were massively overpowered in the first DOW, if they managed to tech up and were played by a reasonably competent player they could tear apart almost anything thrown at them. Not to mention being able to move their entire army at almost a moments notice to wherever it was needed. There is for me nothing quite like dropping a pair of Falcons packed with Fire Dragons around a Baneblade or Land Raider and seeing the Imperials favourite toys taken away in moments.

 

Edit: Probably not the correct game for this but i'd still love to see a well implemented Inquisitorial investigation into a Genestealer cult as a single player campaign.

Edited by Nonek
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Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.

I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin.

 

Tea for the teapot!

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I remember being able to almost solo the game (expansions) as a necron lord, in comparison taking the demonic upgrade as chaos, and effectively being turned into a giant Bart Simpson (those scenes where he was wacked/peppered by snowballs to comical death).

Hopefully they'll expand on the 'rpg system' in DOW 3 and you can excel in playstyle areas.  But I'd prefer the gameplay of the first DOW over a type of D6 system where everyone does equally, or progressively more damage.

Edited by Chippy
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Eldar were massively overpowered in the first DOW, if they managed to tech up and were played by a reasonably competent player they could tear apart almost anything thrown at them. Not to mention being able to move their entire army at almost a moments notice to wherever it was needed. There is for me nothing quite like dropping a pair of Falcons packed with Fire Dragons around a Baneblade or Land Raider and seeing the Imperials favourite toys taken away in moments.

 

Edit: Probably not the correct game for this but i'd still love to see a well implemented Inquisitorial investigation into a Genestealer cult as a single player campaign.

Yeah they could. Except Chaos. Chaos had such a perfect, one could say...chaotic, lineup vs Eldar: Infantry, Heavy Infantry, Vehicles, Daemons etc etc.

 

Also, I'm increasingly worried about DoW III. The animations(sth that prolly won't change) are more reminiscent of Blizzard(not polished, but over the top) and how they, presumably want to do deployment...doesn't sound good. Not at all. But we'll see.

 

Look, DoW pro spoiled me so I've some standards.

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Don't really like the direction Relic is taking with DoWIII. They're going for the competitive RTS gameplay of Starcraft II. Even the gfx, animation and art are drawing influence from SCII.

 

Looks aside, i dislike the new RTS mechanices in DoWIII. It is too fast paced the way i see it, again just like Starcraft II. More focus on macro management with micro being the determining factor that differentiates an average player from a pro. Units are expendable strategically and build orders are crucial to set up your strategy and flow of battle, moreover for replenishing your blobs of army. The underlying gameplay itself moves away from DoW and DoWII, it is adopting Starcraft II playstyle. Does not feel like a DoW game anymore. Although i'm not an expert in SCII, i am only a low tier Gold Rank in SCII League but i know SCII gameplay when i see one.

 

Next is the unit upgrades & skills, squad leader upgrades and hero upgrades. These are the defining features of the DoW franchise. In DoWIII it is hardly there. Unit upgrades(burner, heavy bolter, plasma, lascannon) have all been separated into their own units. Basic Tactical Marine squad still has option for burners but it is now a "skill" rather than a standard loadout. Unit upgrades in DoW and DoWII encourages thoughtful planning for unit progression and preservation while unit skills gives players flexibility and ability to counter no matter their army composition. DoWIII totally removes this mechanic. Unit upgrades and unit skills go hand in hand and should not be dumbed down. Squad leader upgrades(sergeants, commissar, warlocks etc) also removed. Squad leaders are important tactical decisions for players to make due to their buffs and adds an additional layer of tactics to the gameplay, players need to judge the right time and place to requisition them and prioritize which squads need that squad leader upgrade based on the battlefield situation and resources available. Finally Hero upgrades, more prominent and fleshed out in DoWII, it can radically change entire war tactics just by swapping to different Hero loadouts. It is a core gameplay element in DoWII and to a lesser extend in DoW. Different war gear bestows an assortment of buffs and skills that define various types of strategy and tactics. Disapponting that DoWIII relinquish these mechanics in favour of SCII macro/micro.

 

Then there are cover mechanics and garrisons. Its been overly simplified into domed shape shields, capture the point style. Even DoW's cover mechanic which seemed so basic offers much more tactical options. DoWII nailed it with the cover mechanics though i'll admit it won't necessarily work in a game like DoWIII with large scale battles but it is possible to tweak it to reasonable amounts of micro. Theres also so far a lack of garrisons or garrison mechanics as a whole. It might actually already exist in DoWIII but just not shown. That said, garrison mechanics is another must have feature imo. Gives infantry units an edge against certain tactics and army composition and adds a whole new stratagem to gameplay.

 

Finally we have base building. It is a late mission of the campaign and they only have access to the most basic form of base building. Essentially there are only barracks, vehicle factory, headquarters and listening posts. Even DowII with the lack of base building in fact has an in depth, well defined base building element in the form of a variety of turrets(with arcs), relay beacons, bunkers, webways, banners, icons and whatnot. We need meaningful base building, something that is relevant and applicable to battlefield tactics and strategy. DoW and DoWII had a nice spread of useful structures like minefield, various turrets, relay stations, bunkers whatnot to create chokepoints, defensive positions/outposts, retreat/form up areas, to fortify strategic points. Basically strategic buildings that complement different tactics.

 

There are also other minor mechanics missing that could have enhanced gameplay. Like Relics, it should also make a return in DoWIII, it should not only have requisition points. Having Relics adds another competitive resource for players to fight over and account into their strategy. DoWII had an equivalent system with capturing relay towers which grant points though Relics are a much better mechanic. And theres also air units, DoW had a very shallow system for that and it was absent in DoWII. With DoWIII returning to large scale warfare implementing air units and aerial combat mechanics introduces more creative gameplay. Furthermore air units, air support is heavily canonized in WH40k lore, they always play a major role in the battlefields of WH40k. Honestly aerial mechanics should be done from the start instead of via later expansions(like in DoW and Soulstorm), get the foundation built up and solid before expanding on them.

Edited by deathcoy
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The art style doesn't really worry me, after all the first DOW was very stylised, however I think that the MOBA-ish looking hero units is a problem. The stated reason is that they want them to stand out, yet I never had a problem finding the Force Commander in DOW, nor the Librarian, the garish colour schemes of the Astartes help here: The Force Commander has a large amount of trim and customisation, the Librarian is a different colour, as are the Chaplain and Apothecary, the Techmarine has his Servo Arms etcetera, and as a last resort there was a button on screen linked to each of these characters to switch to them immediately. The problem they're solving doesn't exist.

 

As for removing synch kills, one of the real joys and rewards of the original games, I simply cannot understand why anyone would do that. A replay of a good skirmish was a joy to behold:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRiU2N03Rzs

Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.

I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin.

 

Tea for the teapot!

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