The little things you learn by inspecting combat logs...

[Esajin]

I'm in the middle of a clearing of all the Ondrite Monk packs in WM2. I quickly figured out the best option for my party was to bruteforce them with my heavy melee party and simply let my ranged characters either wait it out in stealth or get knocked out. The cool thing is, when you don't need to design any tactic and the fights are long and guaranteed victories, you can easily discover or test mechanics by looking at combat logs.

 

Here are my findings so far, most of these are most likely common knowledge by now, they were new to me though.

 

- Preservation defense bonus from different sources stack! Here it's from Little Savior and Malina's Boots. The original penalty from being prone applies, though, so you get both the defense penalty from the status effects and +50 defense from each source.

 

 

 

 

 

- Confident Aim applies to spell effects (here you see it apply to the Hobbled Effect from Wicked Briars cast by The Colored Coat at 50% endurance.

 

 

 

 

- Spell proc effects use your spell accuracy, but One Handed Style graze-to-hit effect applies to spell procs. Here you see it apply to a Firebug cast by The Unlabored Blade.

 

 

 

- When Ondrite Monks land a Hit on a force of anguish, they prone for 14.5s. Since the ability has a 10 seconds base duration, it means they have 19 intellect on POTD (upscaled).

 

 

 

- Crits give a straight +25 Interrupt bonus. 30 interrupt becomes 55. It's unclear for me at this point how much of a penalty to interrupt a graze yields.

 

 

 

 

Here are some things that I couldn't easily edit into proper screenshots from the combat log. You've got to take my word on this, or simply know it to be true already

 

- Healing Chain cast by the Unlabored Blade with 18 might (+24% healing) is healing for 86.8 on a 40% rest healing bonus character (regardless of their Might), 99.2 on a 60% rest healing bonus character (regardless of their Might). Since the base healing is 50 per jump, we deduce that Might bonus from the caster and Healing bonus from the receiver are applied multiplicatively (50*1.24*1.4 = 86.8 and 50*1.24*1.6 = 99.2). Also of note, the chain is not "smart", it will definitely bounce to the closest character that's not at full stamina, and ignore everyone else.

 

- Ondrite Dudes aren't killing your Stormcaller Ranger - she's most likely killing herself. Check your combat log. Monks have high defenses and reflect ranged attacks on misses. With Twinned Arrows, Driving Flight and chance to cast Returning Storm, you're very likely to miss one monk with any one effect, and then shoot yourself in the foot (both literally and figuratively). 

 

What other nice things did you guys find from exploring the Combat log?

 

[Odd Hermit]

Rime and Frost chant uses the accuracy of the character leaving the trail. Tested this with two Chanters, didn't matter which one was chanting Rime and Frost.

 

[MaxQuest]

Huh, didn't know about the interruption bonus on crit.

And neither of OneHandedStyle working with spell procs from weapons. If only it was hit-to-crit, it would be so useful for a stunning barbarian...

[Esajin]

The thing I'm not certain about yet is whether confident aim works on spell proc attacks (the damaging parts of firebug or wicked briar) and whether one handed style works on spell proc additional effects (hobble, crit, prone...). My gut feeling says they both work, but I've yet to notice them on the combat log.

 

One thing you could try is use a one-hander to push the hit into crit range through raw accuracy bonus (and Durgan Steel), then push the graze into hit range through one-handed style for a longer stun effect? I don't run a barbarian in my party so it's kind of hard for me to test that.

 

Also, I'm getting ideas of a "prone yourself" riposte build. Drunken Monk-style.

[Elric Galad]

Confident aim does work on every spell, as deathblows. The wording on the tooltip is not so cryptic about it.

 

Preservation from items usually DON'T stack. However, enchantments from weapons and shield do stack with everything. That's the reason why you see Little Savior preservation stacking.

 

But thank you for your finds.

[Boeroer]

 

 

- Preservation defense bonus from different sources stack! Here it's from Little Savior and Malina's Boots. The original penalty from being prone applies, though, so you get both the defense penalty from the status effects and +50 defense from each source.

It only stacks because one is a weapon. Weapon enchantments always stack. It's the same with the Solace medium shield and Blaidh Golan (=+100 defenses when prone or stunned).

[Boeroer]

Another thing:

Turning Wheel works with retaliation now, especially well with Battle Forged retaliation. It also works with every spell that is considered melee (Jolting Touch for example). A hit from Battle-Forged + 10 Wounds from Turning Wheel + Scion of Flame with Savage Attach and high MIG easily surpasses 100 burn damage.

 

Scroll of Protection and Break Out enchantment stack. If you wear Blaidh Golan or the helm from Sanguine Plate and cast a Scroll of Protection you will only get stunned or prone for a blink of an eye.

However: Clarity of Agony and Scroll of Protection DON'T stack.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Boeroer

[bigwillystyle]

A low Dex Monk Tank could be pretty interesting.

[Boeroer]

Rime and Frost chant uses the accuracy of the character leaving the trail. Tested this with two Chanters, didn't matter which one was chanting Rime and Frost.

 

Those also get buffed by the Coil of Resourcefulness (+15 ACC) if the "dropper" wears it.

[Boeroer]

 

 

- Healing Chain cast by the Unlabored Blade with 18 might (+24% healing) is healing for 86.8 on a 40% rest healing bonus character (regardless of their Might), 99.2 on a 60% rest healing bonus character (regardless of their Might). Since the base healing is 50 per jump, we deduce that Might bonus from the caster and Healing bonus from the receiver are applied multiplicatively (50*1.24*1.4 = 86.8 and 50*1.24*1.6 = 99.2). Also of note, the chain is not "smart", it will definitely bounce to the closest character that's not at full stamina, and ignore everyone else.

The healing bonus from items like Fulvano's Amulet or Belt of Bountiful Healing or Maneha's Armor always gets multiplied after MIG bonus is calculated. So with a lot of Survival plus one of those items you can achieve such a high amount on bonus healing that - if you wear Shod-in-Fait and have high MIG - you're nearly unkillable as long as COnsecrated Ground is up. Tested it in the midst of Nalrend's bounty while doing nothing else than eating crits. Didn't go down - even from multiple Insect Plagues. But as soon as CG stopped, I was dead in seconds.

[Esajin]

A low Dex Monk Tank could be pretty interesting.

 

That's what I'm running. Well, except for the savage attack. I no longer see Battle-Forged procs though, due to Ryona's Breastplate and generally speaking, too much passive healing going on everywhere, too often. Enemies generally start to ignore her when she has wounds, so I prefer spending them immediately on duplicates. So don't plan on using Ryona's Breastplate with such a monk, it's a bit counterproductive. But yeah, when they do show up, those 70-80 damage battleforge ticks are sure nice

 

I still use the breastplate though, since my frontline (3 fighters and a monk) is apparently immortal anyway ever since I gave everyone Triggered Immunity. I took the Radiant spore down on my very first time there, with all the Vithraks against me and with my watcher confused at the start, without resting after clearing the previous level, and without knowing killing the spore would despawn the remaining tentacles. It doesn't get much more broken than that.

[Esajin]

 

 

 

- Healing Chain cast by the Unlabored Blade with 18 might (+24% healing) is healing for 86.8 on a 40% rest healing bonus character (regardless of their Might), 99.2 on a 60% rest healing bonus character (regardless of their Might). Since the base healing is 50 per jump, we deduce that Might bonus from the caster and Healing bonus from the receiver are applied multiplicatively (50*1.24*1.4 = 86.8 and 50*1.24*1.6 = 99.2). Also of note, the chain is not "smart", it will definitely bounce to the closest character that's not at full stamina, and ignore everyone else.

The healing bonus from items like Fulvano's Amulet or Belt of Bountiful Healing or Maneha's Armor always gets multiplied after MIG bonus is calculated. So with a lot of Survival plus one of those items you can achieve such a high amount on bonus healing that - if you wear Shod-in-Fait and have high MIG - you're nearly unkillable as long as COnsecrated Ground is up. Tested it in the midst of Nalrend's bounty while doing nothing else than eating crits. Didn't go down - even from multiple Insect Plagues. But as soon as CG stopped, I was dead in seconds.

 

Do you know if those healing bonuses stack multiplicatively or additively together and/or with the resting healing bonus?

[Boeroer]

As far as I know all those bonus healing modifiers that go like "+x% healing received" from item and camping bonus all add up and then get multiplied by the healing you would receive.

 

Like:

 

100 healing * 1.x MIG bonus * (1+0.x+0.y) "healing received" bonuses. I don't think the later multiply with each other.

 

I didn't test that excessively with spreadsheets and so on. But if you have very high MIG the numbers indicate that it works that way (with normal MIG it wouldn't make much of a difference). 

 

There's also an item that does "+15% healing done" - forgot what it was. How that fits in I don't know. I guess it will get added to MIG bonus. Could be a nice addition to very high MIG. Imagine 30 MIG and this item an a 65% healing done bonus: 100% * (1+0.3+0.15) * 1.65 = 240% healing.

 

So - if anyone feeld the urge to test this thoroughly: go ahead and do it!

Edited April 19, 2016 by Boeroer

[BlackArchon]

Do I understand this correctly that my weapon's bonuses are applied to my spells when I cast them? Like when I have a flail as my primary weapon and cast a spell, the 30% graze to hit also apply to my spell?

[Braven]

Do I understand this correctly that my weapon's bonuses are applied to my spells when I cast them? Like when I have a flail as my primary weapon and cast a spell, the 30% graze to hit also apply to my spell?

 

I don't think so.  Weapon effects (other then some exceptions, like stat bonuses) do not help spells to my knowledge.  Effects like graze to hit, accuracy boosts, multiple damage types, and crit. damage modifier shouldn't help spells.  However, a shield accuracy penalty will effect spells and a hatchet will still give you a deflection boost.

 

If all you ever plan to do is cast spells and never use your weapon, you are best off with either a hatchet or a weapon with a stat or defensive enchantment.  In your other hand you should wear a shield.  A small shield has no penalties and will give you more deflection.  Some other shields give you passive defensive bonuses, like protection from stun/prone, and are also good choices.

 

Sadly, It really doesn't help for a wizard to hold a quarterstaff or dagger because it seems like something a (classic DnD) wizard should use.  Usually those have zero benefits.  Of course, you can just stick with a ranged weapon in case there is a gap in spell casting to get a shot off.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Braven

[Esajin]

Do I understand this correctly that my weapon's bonuses are applied to my spells when I cast them? Like when I have a flail as my primary weapon and cast a spell, the 30% graze to hit also apply to my spell?

 

Yes and no. I've tested with Prestidigitator's Missiles, so it's not exactly 100% confirmed for everything, but at least it's a spell I was able to spam.

 

- Confident Aim applies

- One handed style applies if you're using a one-handed and no shield

- One handed style applies if you're using a one-handed and a shield

- the accuracy penalty from using a medium/large shield applies (I had 106 accuracy instead of 110 with all other setups)

- the accuracy bonus from using a single weapon does not apply

- flail graze-to-hit effect from flails does not apply

- One handed style applies if you're using two fists

- One handed style applies if you're using two one-handed weapons

- One handed style applies if you're using a bow (non-soulbound)

- One handed style applies if you're using a two-handed mace (non-soulbound)

 

 

 

 

So I did the ultimate sacrifice and used Envenomed Strike with a non-soulbound two-hander (The Rose of Salthollow that has heal on damage dealt)

 

 

 

 

I also reproduced the one handed style effect with the Rose, using normal melee attacks. I think it's safe to say that one handed style and confident aim apply all the time to everything these days. I haven't yet tested two-weapon style, two-handed style and the various modals.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Esajin

[Braven]

Does one-handed style talent work now for dual-wields or sword and board in normal weapon melee?  If so, it could be great for a low perception build that plans on grazing a lot.  Also, large shield users who have lower accuracy.

 

It is strange that one-handed style worked with a two-handed weapon; seems like a bug.  I wonder if it only happens when using a special ability (like envenomed strike).  Would it also trigger on a standard melee auto-attack?

Edited April 19, 2016 by Braven

[BlackArchon]

Many thanks for your various data on this subject! As Braven said, I also get the feeling that some of these effects may be unintended by Obsidian.

[Esajin]

Does one-handed style talent work now for dual-wields or sword and board in normal weapon melee?  If so, it could be great for a low perception build that plans on grazing a lot.  Also, large shield users who have lower accuracy.

 

It is strange that one-handed style worked with a two-handed weapon; seems like a bug.  I wonder if it only happens when using a special ability (like envenomed strike).  Would it also trigger on a standard melee auto-attack?

 

I can do this all day

 

Dual-wielding hatchets

 

 

 

Autoattacking with a staff

 

 

 

Autoattacking with a hunting bow

 

 

 

...and with a blunderbuss

 

 

 

...I do think it's bugged indeed. It's not a broken OP bug, just a plain, mundane bug.

 

Edit: and just so you know, Two handed mastery, Savage Attack and the various Fighter focus, specializations and masteries are not bugged. I didn't test attack speed from Two weapons mastery, and I specifically left Soulbound weapon out of the study as I know nothing about their intended rules.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Esajin

[Boeroer]

They just should rename themselves to Oopsidian... 

[Kaylon]

Each patch seems to add more bugs than it fixes...

[Boeroer]

Those bugs seem to be pomace flies.

[dainbramage]