Gawker found guilty in Hogan Case

[Zoraptor]

 

 

I know Bruce can be mercurial, but really this seemed an inconsistency worth pointing out.

 

 

...

 

The whole point of doing it is so it will be pointed out. That's trolling 101, and Bruce does it all the time.

 

In all seriousness, Bruce purports to be fine with prostitution and not fine with an open marriage. Even if they were honestly held opinions rather than the forum equivalent of Gawker clickbait (no surprise Bruce would defend them, they're peas in a pod) there's literally no point even arguing with someone that disconnected with reality; the level of cognitive dissonance that would be required to honestly hold both opinions renders it utterly pointless.

[BruceVC]

I'm sorry but as far as I can tell those two statements are inconsistent, either Gawker did right, or they did wrong.  You say you "can't blame Gawker" because Gawker is a trash media outlet - you are then absolving them of guilt, and you're absolving them of responsibility for their actions.

 

Blame (v) assign responsibility for a fault or wrong.

Absolve (v) to make (someone) free from guilt, responsibility, etc.

Guilt (N) responsibility for a crime or for doing something bad or wrong

 

You are saying "I can't assign responsibility for wrong to Gawker, but I also can't make them free from responsibility and guilt for doing something wrong".  That's not consistent, and IMO its a terribly goofy position to take (particularly when you've already acknowledged in a previous post that Gawker wouldn't have the right to broadcast more "morally wrong" videos of murder and rape).

 

I get it, you don't like Hogan and you don't think he's a morally good person.  Lots of people agree with you.  But that doesn't allow him to be a victim of a criminal act and not receive justice of some kind.

 

PS - I like mercurial too.  Capricious has more negative connotations to me (but that may be a context I provide than is there).

 

 

 

 

 

I know Bruce can be mercurial, but really this seemed an inconsistency worth pointing out.

 

 

...

 

The whole point of doing it is so it will be pointed out. That's trolling 101, and Bruce does it all the time.

 

In all seriousness, Bruce purports to be fine with prostitution and not fine with an open marriage. Even if they were honestly held opinions rather than the forum equivalent of Gawker clickbait (no surprise Bruce would defend them, they're peas in a pod) there's literally no point even arguing with someone that disconnected with reality; the level of cognitive dissonance that would be required to honestly hold both opinions renders it utterly pointless.

 

Amentep I am sorry to go through you to respond to Zora but he ignores me. I find it very frustrating as I hate being ignored  

 

Zora claims I am troll, yet he wont debate with me. He judges me on Internet etiquette ...like Longknife he thinks my behavior and comments cannot be real yet as I said to Longknife my forum etiquette is exactly how I am in RL....and that sometimes leads  to misunderstandings as RL etiquette cannot always be conveyed

to the Internet ...so for example 

 

Zora says I'm trolling 101 :  No this is Internet etiquette, I have NO idea what trolling 101 is

 

Zora says I'm fine with prostitution :  Correct but you need to look at this in RL etiqutte, they must legalize it so the women are given protection in the eyes of the law

Zora says I'm against open marriage :  False, I am against the application of it in this case. I dont judge others but I wont do it

Zora says how can I support Gawker it clickbait :  False once again he is judging me on Internet etiquette, I explained to you what I meant

Zora says I'm clearly suffering from cognitive dissonance :  This is  a common Internet insult that people love to throw around but he is looking at this from Internet etiquette....its expected to say this to someone like me who he doesn't understand. Yet I admit I have cognitive dissonance, I welcome it . For me in RL etiquette I have no issue with having 2 opposing views sometimes, its normal for me in RL but I always elevate one but I can change my mind if someone presents a valid argument. But in Internet etiquette and Zora view this must be seen in a negative light " how can someone demonstrate  such cognitive dissonance...its so obvious ....he must be trolling " 

 

Sorry to breakdown and dispute your post Zora but I am trying to make a point  to Amentep ..I dont mean to embarrass you

 

So Amentep for me now that Lonknife explained his view I can see how people cannot separate my Internet etiquette from the fact this is my RL etiquette 

 

And you may be thinking " why do I care what Zora thinks " , I care what anyone says but I place more importance in what others think, I dont want you to think I'm trolling because I enjoy our debates and you have always been very consistent and polite to me and you a erudite person. So why wouldn't I care what you think?

 

But please remember I have a RL etiquette here and I can't change it, yet I dont  think we have had an issue debating 

[Volourn]

"So once again what Hogan did is worse, in life we can only control our own moral decisions....no one else to blame 

 

But Gawker is a company, its not living and its driven by profit. A bad decision by a human will normally always be worse than an objective of profit"

 

This doiesn't make sense. Not surprising though. Gawker is owned and run by humans. And, really?  So... if a company  poisons water to make profit and millions die.... that is a-ok because one human who steals (or has sex with a married woman) is worse than said company just b/c their goal was profit and his was sex? COME ON.

 

Hogan did something with a grown woman. They both agreed to have sex. He did not agree to be filmed.

 

LMAO

 

 

But you get butthurt over videos of naked FEMALE celebrities doing all sorts of sexy things. I doubt all of them were just making love to their husband Mr. Moral Police.

 

SJW nazis. L0L

[Valsuelm]

 

 

Hogan and his even more immoral friends, the wife and husband., did something for themselves....not for someone else,its worse what Hogan did

Are you seriously saying that something between consenting adults is "worse" than something done without consent?

 

Because AFAIK Hogan and Heather Clem were consenting adults in what they did but they did not consent to being filmed or to having said film distributed by Gawker.

 

Yes for me much worse, this is a subjective judgement

 

I have been very lucky in life, I have always had very good guy friends, I mean we share everything about ourselves and we completely trust each other and can rely on each other. Some of friends I have been friends with for 15-20 years 

 

Most of my friends are married or have serious girlfriends and I am also always very good friends with the ladies ..but its a real respect and friendship that is outside my male friends. I was raised in a matriarch society and I really appreciate my friendships with women, in fact I often enjoy doing things with women that most men would find boring, in other words " women things "

 

But for a man to be true friends with a  women he has to learn to not act on any physical attraction if it surfaces , its fine to be attracted to a lady friend but you must control how you respond. So there was and always is  immense trust between me and all my guy friends about there lady partners, for example my friend would go away for a month for work and I would come down from JHB and stay with his fiancee for weekends. We would party together, sleep in the same house and even the same bed but there was never anything that made the situation uncomfortable 

 

The level of trust was unequivocal and this only made our 3 friendships more durable . So when I hear about someone who is prepared to let his wife sleep with someone like Hogan I lose immense respect for how dysfunctional that relationship really is...despite the fact they probably think " we have a open relationship which makes us stronger as a couple " 

 

Get divorced and then sleep with who you want....but seriously a wife and her husband being happy with that is just .....appalling for me

 

So yes what Hogan did was morally worse, spiritually worse and a mockery of what a marriage is 

 

 

This is truly rich, coming from someone who champions gay and transgender rights, and repeatedly has said there's nothing wrong with that lifestyle at all.

 

Absolute Platinum!

[HoonDing]

You can't take down the alpha male.

 

 

"I was raised in a matriarch society and I really appreciate my friendships with women, in fact I often enjoy doing things with women that most men would find boring, in other words " women things"

 

 

this is sig worthy

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

Hogan and his even more immoral friends, the wife and husband., did something for themselves....not for someone else,its worse what Hogan did

Are you seriously saying that something between consenting adults is "worse" than something done without consent?

 

Because AFAIK Hogan and Heather Clem were consenting adults in what they did but they did not consent to being filmed or to having said film distributed by Gawker.

 

Yes for me much worse, this is a subjective judgement

 

I have been very lucky in life, I have always had very good guy friends, I mean we share everything about ourselves and we completely trust each other and can rely on each other. Some of friends I have been friends with for 15-20 years 

 

Most of my friends are married or have serious girlfriends and I am also always very good friends with the ladies ..but its a real respect and friendship that is outside my male friends. I was raised in a matriarch society and I really appreciate my friendships with women, in fact I often enjoy doing things with women that most men would find boring, in other words " women things "

 

But for a man to be true friends with a  women he has to learn to not act on any physical attraction if it surfaces , its fine to be attracted to a lady friend but you must control how you respond. So there was and always is  immense trust between me and all my guy friends about there lady partners, for example my friend would go away for a month for work and I would come down from JHB and stay with his fiancee for weekends. We would party together, sleep in the same house and even the same bed but there was never anything that made the situation uncomfortable 

 

The level of trust was unequivocal and this only made our 3 friendships more durable . So when I hear about someone who is prepared to let his wife sleep with someone like Hogan I lose immense respect for how dysfunctional that relationship really is...despite the fact they probably think " we have a open relationship which makes us stronger as a couple " 

 

Get divorced and then sleep with who you want....but seriously a wife and her husband being happy with that is just .....appalling for me

 

So yes what Hogan did was morally worse, spiritually worse and a mockery of what a marriage is 

 

 

This is truly rich, coming from someone who champions gay and transgender rights, and repeatedly has said there's nothing wrong with that lifestyle at all.

 

Absolute Platinum!

 

 

 

You can't take down the alpha male.

 

 

"I was raised in a matriarch society and I really appreciate my friendships with women, in fact I often enjoy doing things with women that most men would find boring, in other words " women things"

 

 

this is sig worthy

 

Guys you both doing the same thing Lonkgknife did, you judging me on Internet etiquette yet I am coming from RL etiqutte

 

@ Vals

 

Please explain how what I said in that post contradicts my belief in gay rights....and yes I do support gay rights 

 

 

@ Hoon

 

No idea what a duck means?  Why is my comment about women funny, if you met me in RL you would see its real. Its not such a big deal to enjoy the friendship of women

[Bartimaeus]

this is sig worthy

No no, please, I couldn't possibly have more.

[BruceVC]

"So once again what Hogan did is worse, in life we can only control our own moral decisions....no one else to blame 

 

But Gawker is a company, its not living and its driven by profit. A bad decision by a human will normally always be worse than an objective of profit"

 

This doiesn't make sense. Not surprising though. Gawker is owned and run by humans. And, really?  So... if a company  poisons water to make profit and millions die.... that is a-ok because one human who steals (or has sex with a married woman) is worse than said company just b/c their goal was profit and his was sex? COME ON.

 

Hogan did something with a grown woman. They both agreed to have sex. He did not agree to be filmed.

 

LMAO

 

 

But you get butthurt over videos of naked FEMALE celebrities doing all sorts of sexy things. I doubt all of them were just making love to their husband Mr. Moral Police.

 

SJW nazis. L0L

Volo this will be the last time I respond to you in this thread, to be honest you are draining me as your interpretations of what I mean  are always so wrong I think you tolliing

But of course we will have other debates , I just mean I am leaving this debate so dont take it the wrong way

 

Actually companies normally get blamed...not the people. For example in the 2008 financial crisis Im sure no one can name anyone who was charged ...yet you remember the actual banks

 

As I have explained for the third time to you what Hogan did is much worse for me

 

And yes I dont think its right what Gawker did with the lady celebrates...its worse than what they did with Hogan as he is real attention seeker....he is a wrestler and he was involved in a immoral act  

[BruceVC]

 

this is sig worthy

No no, please, I couldn't possibly have more.

 

Barti you need to read Longknifes post about me, it may make  lots of sense but its 90 % wrong 

 

But its  a good read as a lesson in Internet misunderstandings 

[Valsuelm]

 

Can  I ask you a question and please be honest as the feedback is important to me. From my side I consider you someone who I  have never had any issues having a debate with. I consider our forum interaction very healthy but how have you found me..am I rude at times, condescending? Or am I normal to you ?

 

 

 

Hi, you didn't ask me. Don't give a ****, here's my answer:

 

You remind me of my grandfather in some ways. He was absolutely spineless and followed orders to a ridiculous degree. Like I could tell him to go punch my father in the face and the only thing that would stop him from doing so is if my father ordered him NOT to punch him in the face before it happened, at which point he could order him to come murder me and I better hope I get a chance to give an order before it happens. Think this was his coping mechanism to absolve himself of any guilt from having been a Nazi. Dunno the details but sounds like he worked a machine gun and gunned down a LOT of people, so I imagine it left him with some serious scars.

 

But you don't come across as spineless in that sense. You come across as so god damned absorbed with your image and with being a good person that you as a person have little substance to your name. You do things based on how good they're perceived to be, with that actually taking precedence over your own impulses and gut feelings. I mean sure enough, here you are defending Gawker when some of their own workers and witnesses worked against them in court all because Gawker says progressive stuff and progressive = good right? So opposition = bad? And you're failing at objective thought as you sit here focusing on Hulk Hogan as if that has **** all to do with this. Dude if Hitler has a sex tape leaked, Hitler still has a right to a trial. There is no "yeah but you stole a wallet that time so nope the court system never helps you."

 

 

 

But let's not focus on that so much, cause this is about you. You focus on being perceived as good, you don't seem to react on your ACTUAL thoughts, opinions or emotions. No, you silence those. Great example: I will confess that I am very cautious around the transgender community because probably a third of the transgender individuals I've met are damned crazy, in my opinion. They'll look in a mirror and see the sexiest woman alive, complimenting themselves, then ask for a compliment and I'll be sitting there thinking "dude I can see your ****ing adam's apple and you still have a man-jaw, let's be real here." I also think one should acknowledge that biology IS going to work against transgender individuals in the sense that, for example, biology is smart: what men consider a nice ass is often a sign a woman can provide safe childbirth, and did you know attractive people tend to have higher IQs? Your body tries to advertise all it's strengths and problems: there's an evolutionary reason why warts or a bad scent will disgust people for example. And for transgender individuals? Your body is gonna recognize "something is wrong." It won't feel disgust (usually), it won't feel anger or hate, but it DAMNED WELL won't feel attraction. As such, if I meet a transgender individual that can calmly admit to being transgender and understand they stand out like a sore thumb and rarely (if ever) attract their desired gender, but the gender swap makes them feel better all the same? More power to these people. The ones I've met that seem to be living in this fantasy world where OMG IM A WOMAN NOW AND EVERYONE THINKS I LOOK FEMININE AND I MUST NEVER ACKNOWLEDGE MY PAST NAME AGAIN!!! Yeah, they can gtfo. I keep my distance from these individuals not because transgender individuals bother me, but because delusional individuals bother me (I've met women who've attempted to lie to me and others about their fake boobs; same **** here, that bothers me), and sadly the delusion quota in the transgender community - in my experience - has been high. Nowhere near a majority, but still high. I've met three such individuals in my lifetime, which is three more than I cared to meet.

 

  I do not think my reaction is abnormal, offensive or strange. I just explained to you my reasoning, I in no way think anything I said was unreasonable. At no point did I state I was against transgender individuals or their rights; they deserve all of that. All the same, yes if I meet a transgender individual, I'm gonna be asking in my head if this is gonna be a normal one of a "I AM THE MOST BEAUTIFUL WOMAN EVER I WAS NEVER A MAN WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT" one. And the moment I get a hint of the latter type, I'm gone.

 

Now let's talk about you: I can imagine you having the same impulses where you see a transgender individual and your mind/body reacts with a "NOPE." That's natural. But what I can't imagine is that you'd admit to this....actually I could imagine you saying it now that I've brought it up solely for the sake of trying to come across as relateable, but admitting to it on your own, without someone else provoking it out of you? No, you'd claim there's no issue whatsoever, because you wanna be a good person. You'd NEVER admit to anything that can remotely resemble prejudice, because what would people think!! You've gotta continue trying to look like the nicest, most morally good person ever! And so you lie. You lie to yourself, you lie to others. You convince yourself you don't have these impulses, you tell everyone those impulses don't exist. But in doing so, you fail to sit down and critically ask yourself who you are, what makes you tick and why you think the way you do. On two seperate occassions, I have respectfully confessed my "prejudices" towards the transgender community to a transgender individual. On both cases, we had a meaningful discussion that helped me understand myself and the transgender community better. The second individual was even happy to hear me say what I said, and then began complaining that so many people now "fetishize" or use the transgender community for political statements without understanding them themselves. They'll sit there and claim ridiculous things like anyone who doesn't find a transgender person attractive is a prejudice bigot, or they'll attempt to downplay how serious a gender change is, the result being that actual experts or support groups are sometimes laughable because they've been fed bull**** by some hipster SJWs who just said **** to make the trans community feel more accepted rather than speaking about what they truly are and what problems they truly face. (wish I could recall the exact details, sadly this convo took place two years ago)

 

 

I'm not afraid to admit to any thought that goes through my mind because what purpose is there in ever lying to myself? When I was 14 I saw a documentary on an assassination attempt on Adolf Hitler. In it, they determined a table leg saved Hitler's life by diminishing how much of a blast from a suitcase bomb hit him. To try and make everyone feel better about those terrible results, one of the German war veterans in attendance said they think Hitler had to survive that, because he believed that had Hitler died that day, he would've died a hero rather than a villain, because this was before his artocities came to light.

  That blew my mind. The idea that the guy who's synonymous with the word "evil" almost died a hero...? Blew my mind. It made me realize...do my friends like me, or do they only like the ILLUSION of me that I've presented? Of course I only show them my best traits, of course I hide my worst....but what's the point in that? I do want to be judged. I do want people to know who I truly am, and that way, I can know if people truly like and agree with me or not. Even if the world determined I was a terrible person, all the same I am who I am and I should be proud of who I am, and wear my personality on my sleeve like a badge of pride.

 

 

....Then there's you. Sometimes I read your post and I feel like you're my antithesis. I get the sense that you and I are, in many ways, complete opposites. Every post of yours is so polite it could make school children nauceous. Every single discussion has to end peacefully or on a good note or it'll bother the hell out of you. At all times, you have to remind people you're progressive, you care about women (weird to me that it's ALWAYS women) and you're a good person. I look at that and say what point is there in forcing a convo to end on a good note? You can't do that; you're kidding yourself and lying to yourself, because if a convo ends on a bad note, it ends on a bad note. And the constant reminders about how much you care about women or in this case, the workers at Gawker, just comes off as total bull. In my mind, you're either a troll, or you're a sad little man who is so haunted by fears that people might perceive you as a bad person or that you ARE a bad person, that you let those exact fears govern your every opinion, to the point where the opinion forms before the reasoning behind the opinion has even made sense in your brain. Hey, what I'm saying may hurt, but it's called "honesty," and as I've said you can learn a lot from it.

 

 

Every post you make comes across as the most fake, disingenuine thing ever. You're like the definition of those guys that ask "how was your day" purely for the politeness of it but don't actually care or pay attention to the answer. I mean I have no doubt that you're gonna respond to this post with something along the lines of "oh ok this is a very helpful post and I thank you for your input!" What I do doubt is if you actually read it. So many of your posts are just empty statements that fail to say anything beyond "good point." You never explain why or how, you never explain your reasoning, you never provide evidence you actually read or comprehended what anyone says to you, you never do anything. And hell, you never voice criticism ever unless it's deemed allowable by your weird overly-progressive moral compass.

So yeah, if I'm being as frank as possible, you seem like a sad individual who is living your life letting the opinions of others govern who you are and how you should act, all out of fear of being perceived as bad or evil or something. You hear "WOMEN GOOD, MEN BAD" and repeat it like a friggin' caveman without being able to explain ANY of the reasons behind your logic, and why? Because one they're not logical and two it's not YOUR false logic to begin with. You just parrot all the "good karma" political stances you've heard without bothering to comprehend them (if that's even possible), and that's evident by how poorly you argue them....if at all. As I said, your posts are nonstop empty statements devoid of any substance, and it always seems evident that you're more concerned with your image and seeming like a good person than you are in....well, actually having a god damned debate.

 

 

Seriously though, here's a challenge for you: quote one post for me in this entire thread where you actually make an argument. You'll find that all of your arguments are "I don't think so." That's it. You just disagree without stating why. Anyone else on these forums, whether I agree with them or not, I can expect them to explain to me why they think the way they do. But you? You cannot even back up any of your own stances or beliefs, and I'm personally of the opinion your opinion about Gawker "changed" not because we actually convinced you, but because you noticed you were the ONLY person in the entirety of the forums that was opting to defend them, thus you perceived what you're doing must be "bad" and caved not because you actually listened to anything anyone said, but because for you, life is just a desperate attempt to be perceived as a good person.

 

Well I'll tell you, it's not working. I've said before, quite frankly, that I don't respect your opinions, because as I just pointed out, I don't think your opinions have any reasoning behind them. Why would I give time of day to a person who has their opinions solely due to peer pressure or some other weird social phenomina with their thinking pattern? I respect those who can say "I am against strong criminal charges for false rape accusations because A, B, and C," not those who say "I am against strong criminal charges for false rape accusations because it is wrong and I have always been a nice man who respects women and is concerned with achieving equality for them."

 

Nothing that you say makes anyone think "wow what a nice guy!" Infact I'm often sitting here thinking "wow what a fruit" or "Bruce is the poster child for that saying 'Don't be too open-minded or your brain will fall out.'" I also think there's probably a lot of people that think you can be rather passive aggressive, which if you didn't know, can be a very ugly personality trait to have.

 

 

 

Yes that's a wall of text, and yes that's a wall of text that neither you nor anyone else asked for. All the same, I posted it because quite frankly, if you go through this thread, it's "Everyone else vs. Bruce's drunk-as-hell moral compass." Half the thread is you grasping at straws and attempting to downplay Gawker's horrendous acts. And why? Because they're on your "side" and they're "good progressives." ....That's another pet peeve of mine: people that blindly defend others on their "side" without actually asking if they agree with that person or group whatsoever. But I've ranted enough. Point is that quite frankly I think you irritate the ever-living hell out of a lot of people, it's just some are more reluctant than others to say it.

 

[spoilered only to save screen space.]

 

If I have time later, I may add to what you say here, but I want to at least say I very much appreciate the energy and time you took to write that, and I agree 100% with your observations on Bruce. While they very likely might be lost on Bruce himself (and seem to be based on his replies), know at least that you are not alone in your observation and opinion on this matter.

 

Thank you for writing what you wrote.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Valsuelm

[Bartimaeus]

Volo this will be the last time I respond to you in this thread, to be honest you are draining me as your interpretations of what I mean  are always so wrong I think you tolliing

 

 

 

 

you are draining me as your interpretations of what I mean are always so wrong I think you tolliing

 

 

 

 

always so wrong I think you tolliing

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...

 

 

 

 

 

[BruceVC]

 

 

Can  I ask you a question and please be honest as the feedback is important to me. From my side I consider you someone who I  have never had any issues having a debate with. I consider our forum interaction very healthy but how have you found me..am I rude at times, condescending? Or am I normal to you ?

 

 

 

Hi, you didn't ask me. Don't give a ****, here's my answer:

 

You remind me of my grandfather in some ways. He was absolutely spineless and followed orders to a ridiculous degree. Like I could tell him to go punch my father in the face and the only thing that would stop him from doing so is if my father ordered him NOT to punch him in the face before it happened, at which point he could order him to come murder me and I better hope I get a chance to give an order before it happens. Think this was his coping mechanism to absolve himself of any guilt from having been a Nazi. Dunno the details but sounds like he worked a machine gun and gunned down a LOT of people, so I imagine it left him with some serious scars.

 

But you don't come across as spineless in that sense. You come across as so god damned absorbed with your image and with being a good person that you as a person have little substance to your name. You do things based on how good they're perceived to be, with that actually taking precedence over your own impulses and gut feelings. I mean sure enough, here you are defending Gawker when some of their own workers and witnesses worked against them in court all because Gawker says progressive stuff and progressive = good right? So opposition = bad? And you're failing at objective thought as you sit here focusing on Hulk Hogan as if that has **** all to do with this. Dude if Hitler has a sex tape leaked, Hitler still has a right to a trial. There is no "yeah but you stole a wallet that time so nope the court system never helps you."

 

 

 

But let's not focus on that so much, cause this is about you. You focus on being perceived as good, you don't seem to react on your ACTUAL thoughts, opinions or emotions. No, you silence those. Great example: I will confess that I am very cautious around the transgender community because probably a third of the transgender individuals I've met are damned crazy, in my opinion. They'll look in a mirror and see the sexiest woman alive, complimenting themselves, then ask for a compliment and I'll be sitting there thinking "dude I can see your ****ing adam's apple and you still have a man-jaw, let's be real here." I also think one should acknowledge that biology IS going to work against transgender individuals in the sense that, for example, biology is smart: what men consider a nice ass is often a sign a woman can provide safe childbirth, and did you know attractive people tend to have higher IQs? Your body tries to advertise all it's strengths and problems: there's an evolutionary reason why warts or a bad scent will disgust people for example. And for transgender individuals? Your body is gonna recognize "something is wrong." It won't feel disgust (usually), it won't feel anger or hate, but it DAMNED WELL won't feel attraction. As such, if I meet a transgender individual that can calmly admit to being transgender and understand they stand out like a sore thumb and rarely (if ever) attract their desired gender, but the gender swap makes them feel better all the same? More power to these people. The ones I've met that seem to be living in this fantasy world where OMG IM A WOMAN NOW AND EVERYONE THINKS I LOOK FEMININE AND I MUST NEVER ACKNOWLEDGE MY PAST NAME AGAIN!!! Yeah, they can gtfo. I keep my distance from these individuals not because transgender individuals bother me, but because delusional individuals bother me (I've met women who've attempted to lie to me and others about their fake boobs; same **** here, that bothers me), and sadly the delusion quota in the transgender community - in my experience - has been high. Nowhere near a majority, but still high. I've met three such individuals in my lifetime, which is three more than I cared to meet.

 

  I do not think my reaction is abnormal, offensive or strange. I just explained to you my reasoning, I in no way think anything I said was unreasonable. At no point did I state I was against transgender individuals or their rights; they deserve all of that. All the same, yes if I meet a transgender individual, I'm gonna be asking in my head if this is gonna be a normal one of a "I AM THE MOST BEAUTIFUL WOMAN EVER I WAS NEVER A MAN WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT" one. And the moment I get a hint of the latter type, I'm gone.

 

Now let's talk about you: I can imagine you having the same impulses where you see a transgender individual and your mind/body reacts with a "NOPE." That's natural. But what I can't imagine is that you'd admit to this....actually I could imagine you saying it now that I've brought it up solely for the sake of trying to come across as relateable, but admitting to it on your own, without someone else provoking it out of you? No, you'd claim there's no issue whatsoever, because you wanna be a good person. You'd NEVER admit to anything that can remotely resemble prejudice, because what would people think!! You've gotta continue trying to look like the nicest, most morally good person ever! And so you lie. You lie to yourself, you lie to others. You convince yourself you don't have these impulses, you tell everyone those impulses don't exist. But in doing so, you fail to sit down and critically ask yourself who you are, what makes you tick and why you think the way you do. On two seperate occassions, I have respectfully confessed my "prejudices" towards the transgender community to a transgender individual. On both cases, we had a meaningful discussion that helped me understand myself and the transgender community better. The second individual was even happy to hear me say what I said, and then began complaining that so many people now "fetishize" or use the transgender community for political statements without understanding them themselves. They'll sit there and claim ridiculous things like anyone who doesn't find a transgender person attractive is a prejudice bigot, or they'll attempt to downplay how serious a gender change is, the result being that actual experts or support groups are sometimes laughable because they've been fed bull**** by some hipster SJWs who just said **** to make the trans community feel more accepted rather than speaking about what they truly are and what problems they truly face. (wish I could recall the exact details, sadly this convo took place two years ago)

 

 

I'm not afraid to admit to any thought that goes through my mind because what purpose is there in ever lying to myself? When I was 14 I saw a documentary on an assassination attempt on Adolf Hitler. In it, they determined a table leg saved Hitler's life by diminishing how much of a blast from a suitcase bomb hit him. To try and make everyone feel better about those terrible results, one of the German war veterans in attendance said they think Hitler had to survive that, because he believed that had Hitler died that day, he would've died a hero rather than a villain, because this was before his artocities came to light.

  That blew my mind. The idea that the guy who's synonymous with the word "evil" almost died a hero...? Blew my mind. It made me realize...do my friends like me, or do they only like the ILLUSION of me that I've presented? Of course I only show them my best traits, of course I hide my worst....but what's the point in that? I do want to be judged. I do want people to know who I truly am, and that way, I can know if people truly like and agree with me or not. Even if the world determined I was a terrible person, all the same I am who I am and I should be proud of who I am, and wear my personality on my sleeve like a badge of pride.

 

 

....Then there's you. Sometimes I read your post and I feel like you're my antithesis. I get the sense that you and I are, in many ways, complete opposites. Every post of yours is so polite it could make school children nauceous. Every single discussion has to end peacefully or on a good note or it'll bother the hell out of you. At all times, you have to remind people you're progressive, you care about women (weird to me that it's ALWAYS women) and you're a good person. I look at that and say what point is there in forcing a convo to end on a good note? You can't do that; you're kidding yourself and lying to yourself, because if a convo ends on a bad note, it ends on a bad note. And the constant reminders about how much you care about women or in this case, the workers at Gawker, just comes off as total bull. In my mind, you're either a troll, or you're a sad little man who is so haunted by fears that people might perceive you as a bad person or that you ARE a bad person, that you let those exact fears govern your every opinion, to the point where the opinion forms before the reasoning behind the opinion has even made sense in your brain. Hey, what I'm saying may hurt, but it's called "honesty," and as I've said you can learn a lot from it.

 

 

Every post you make comes across as the most fake, disingenuine thing ever. You're like the definition of those guys that ask "how was your day" purely for the politeness of it but don't actually care or pay attention to the answer. I mean I have no doubt that you're gonna respond to this post with something along the lines of "oh ok this is a very helpful post and I thank you for your input!" What I do doubt is if you actually read it. So many of your posts are just empty statements that fail to say anything beyond "good point." You never explain why or how, you never explain your reasoning, you never provide evidence you actually read or comprehended what anyone says to you, you never do anything. And hell, you never voice criticism ever unless it's deemed allowable by your weird overly-progressive moral compass.

So yeah, if I'm being as frank as possible, you seem like a sad individual who is living your life letting the opinions of others govern who you are and how you should act, all out of fear of being perceived as bad or evil or something. You hear "WOMEN GOOD, MEN BAD" and repeat it like a friggin' caveman without being able to explain ANY of the reasons behind your logic, and why? Because one they're not logical and two it's not YOUR false logic to begin with. You just parrot all the "good karma" political stances you've heard without bothering to comprehend them (if that's even possible), and that's evident by how poorly you argue them....if at all. As I said, your posts are nonstop empty statements devoid of any substance, and it always seems evident that you're more concerned with your image and seeming like a good person than you are in....well, actually having a god damned debate.

 

 

Seriously though, here's a challenge for you: quote one post for me in this entire thread where you actually make an argument. You'll find that all of your arguments are "I don't think so." That's it. You just disagree without stating why. Anyone else on these forums, whether I agree with them or not, I can expect them to explain to me why they think the way they do. But you? You cannot even back up any of your own stances or beliefs, and I'm personally of the opinion your opinion about Gawker "changed" not because we actually convinced you, but because you noticed you were the ONLY person in the entirety of the forums that was opting to defend them, thus you perceived what you're doing must be "bad" and caved not because you actually listened to anything anyone said, but because for you, life is just a desperate attempt to be perceived as a good person.

 

Well I'll tell you, it's not working. I've said before, quite frankly, that I don't respect your opinions, because as I just pointed out, I don't think your opinions have any reasoning behind them. Why would I give time of day to a person who has their opinions solely due to peer pressure or some other weird social phenomina with their thinking pattern? I respect those who can say "I am against strong criminal charges for false rape accusations because A, B, and C," not those who say "I am against strong criminal charges for false rape accusations because it is wrong and I have always been a nice man who respects women and is concerned with achieving equality for them."

 

Nothing that you say makes anyone think "wow what a nice guy!" Infact I'm often sitting here thinking "wow what a fruit" or "Bruce is the poster child for that saying 'Don't be too open-minded or your brain will fall out.'" I also think there's probably a lot of people that think you can be rather passive aggressive, which if you didn't know, can be a very ugly personality trait to have.

 

 

 

Yes that's a wall of text, and yes that's a wall of text that neither you nor anyone else asked for. All the same, I posted it because quite frankly, if you go through this thread, it's "Everyone else vs. Bruce's drunk-as-hell moral compass." Half the thread is you grasping at straws and attempting to downplay Gawker's horrendous acts. And why? Because they're on your "side" and they're "good progressives." ....That's another pet peeve of mine: people that blindly defend others on their "side" without actually asking if they agree with that person or group whatsoever. But I've ranted enough. Point is that quite frankly I think you irritate the ever-living hell out of a lot of people, it's just some are more reluctant than others to say it.

 

[spoilered only to save screen space.]

 

If I have time later, I may add to what you say here, but I want to at least say I very much appreciate the energy and time you took to write that, and I agree 100% with your observations on Bruce. While they very likely might be lost on Bruce himself (and seem to be based on his replies), know at least that you are not alone in your observation and opinion on this matter.

 

Thank you for writing what you wrote.

 

Yes I keep saying that, Im glad he wrote that because I now understand the issue

 

Some people judge me on expected Internet etiquette, I cannot do that as I am only capable of one way of acting :  RL Etiquette 

 

 Hence the misunderstandings which you are perpetuating

[BruceVC]

 

Volo this will be the last time I respond to you in this thread, to be honest you are draining me as your interpretations of what I mean  are always so wrong I think you tolliing

 

 

 

 

you are draining me as your interpretations of what I mean are always so wrong I think you tolliing

 

 

 

 

always so wrong I think you tolliing

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...

 

 

 

 

 

Barti you are funny with your pictures 

 

But yes Volo has drained me ....well I'm finishing off this thread now as  I am tired ..its not just Volo. We have been debating for a while now and its been very fruitful but its time to chill 

[Valsuelm]

 

 

 

Can  I ask you a question and please be honest as the feedback is important to me. From my side I consider you someone who I  have never had any issues having a debate with. I consider our forum interaction very healthy but how have you found me..am I rude at times, condescending? Or am I normal to you ?

 

 

 

Hi, you didn't ask me. Don't give a ****, here's my answer:

 

You remind me of my grandfather in some ways. He was absolutely spineless and followed orders to a ridiculous degree. Like I could tell him to go punch my father in the face and the only thing that would stop him from doing so is if my father ordered him NOT to punch him in the face before it happened, at which point he could order him to come murder me and I better hope I get a chance to give an order before it happens. Think this was his coping mechanism to absolve himself of any guilt from having been a Nazi. Dunno the details but sounds like he worked a machine gun and gunned down a LOT of people, so I imagine it left him with some serious scars.

 

But you don't come across as spineless in that sense. You come across as so god damned absorbed with your image and with being a good person that you as a person have little substance to your name. You do things based on how good they're perceived to be, with that actually taking precedence over your own impulses and gut feelings. I mean sure enough, here you are defending Gawker when some of their own workers and witnesses worked against them in court all because Gawker says progressive stuff and progressive = good right? So opposition = bad? And you're failing at objective thought as you sit here focusing on Hulk Hogan as if that has **** all to do with this. Dude if Hitler has a sex tape leaked, Hitler still has a right to a trial. There is no "yeah but you stole a wallet that time so nope the court system never helps you."

 

 

 

But let's not focus on that so much, cause this is about you. You focus on being perceived as good, you don't seem to react on your ACTUAL thoughts, opinions or emotions. No, you silence those. Great example: I will confess that I am very cautious around the transgender community because probably a third of the transgender individuals I've met are damned crazy, in my opinion. They'll look in a mirror and see the sexiest woman alive, complimenting themselves, then ask for a compliment and I'll be sitting there thinking "dude I can see your ****ing adam's apple and you still have a man-jaw, let's be real here." I also think one should acknowledge that biology IS going to work against transgender individuals in the sense that, for example, biology is smart: what men consider a nice ass is often a sign a woman can provide safe childbirth, and did you know attractive people tend to have higher IQs? Your body tries to advertise all it's strengths and problems: there's an evolutionary reason why warts or a bad scent will disgust people for example. And for transgender individuals? Your body is gonna recognize "something is wrong." It won't feel disgust (usually), it won't feel anger or hate, but it DAMNED WELL won't feel attraction. As such, if I meet a transgender individual that can calmly admit to being transgender and understand they stand out like a sore thumb and rarely (if ever) attract their desired gender, but the gender swap makes them feel better all the same? More power to these people. The ones I've met that seem to be living in this fantasy world where OMG IM A WOMAN NOW AND EVERYONE THINKS I LOOK FEMININE AND I MUST NEVER ACKNOWLEDGE MY PAST NAME AGAIN!!! Yeah, they can gtfo. I keep my distance from these individuals not because transgender individuals bother me, but because delusional individuals bother me (I've met women who've attempted to lie to me and others about their fake boobs; same **** here, that bothers me), and sadly the delusion quota in the transgender community - in my experience - has been high. Nowhere near a majority, but still high. I've met three such individuals in my lifetime, which is three more than I cared to meet.

 

  I do not think my reaction is abnormal, offensive or strange. I just explained to you my reasoning, I in no way think anything I said was unreasonable. At no point did I state I was against transgender individuals or their rights; they deserve all of that. All the same, yes if I meet a transgender individual, I'm gonna be asking in my head if this is gonna be a normal one of a "I AM THE MOST BEAUTIFUL WOMAN EVER I WAS NEVER A MAN WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT" one. And the moment I get a hint of the latter type, I'm gone.

 

Now let's talk about you: I can imagine you having the same impulses where you see a transgender individual and your mind/body reacts with a "NOPE." That's natural. But what I can't imagine is that you'd admit to this....actually I could imagine you saying it now that I've brought it up solely for the sake of trying to come across as relateable, but admitting to it on your own, without someone else provoking it out of you? No, you'd claim there's no issue whatsoever, because you wanna be a good person. You'd NEVER admit to anything that can remotely resemble prejudice, because what would people think!! You've gotta continue trying to look like the nicest, most morally good person ever! And so you lie. You lie to yourself, you lie to others. You convince yourself you don't have these impulses, you tell everyone those impulses don't exist. But in doing so, you fail to sit down and critically ask yourself who you are, what makes you tick and why you think the way you do. On two seperate occassions, I have respectfully confessed my "prejudices" towards the transgender community to a transgender individual. On both cases, we had a meaningful discussion that helped me understand myself and the transgender community better. The second individual was even happy to hear me say what I said, and then began complaining that so many people now "fetishize" or use the transgender community for political statements without understanding them themselves. They'll sit there and claim ridiculous things like anyone who doesn't find a transgender person attractive is a prejudice bigot, or they'll attempt to downplay how serious a gender change is, the result being that actual experts or support groups are sometimes laughable because they've been fed bull**** by some hipster SJWs who just said **** to make the trans community feel more accepted rather than speaking about what they truly are and what problems they truly face. (wish I could recall the exact details, sadly this convo took place two years ago)

 

 

I'm not afraid to admit to any thought that goes through my mind because what purpose is there in ever lying to myself? When I was 14 I saw a documentary on an assassination attempt on Adolf Hitler. In it, they determined a table leg saved Hitler's life by diminishing how much of a blast from a suitcase bomb hit him. To try and make everyone feel better about those terrible results, one of the German war veterans in attendance said they think Hitler had to survive that, because he believed that had Hitler died that day, he would've died a hero rather than a villain, because this was before his artocities came to light.

  That blew my mind. The idea that the guy who's synonymous with the word "evil" almost died a hero...? Blew my mind. It made me realize...do my friends like me, or do they only like the ILLUSION of me that I've presented? Of course I only show them my best traits, of course I hide my worst....but what's the point in that? I do want to be judged. I do want people to know who I truly am, and that way, I can know if people truly like and agree with me or not. Even if the world determined I was a terrible person, all the same I am who I am and I should be proud of who I am, and wear my personality on my sleeve like a badge of pride.

 

 

....Then there's you. Sometimes I read your post and I feel like you're my antithesis. I get the sense that you and I are, in many ways, complete opposites. Every post of yours is so polite it could make school children nauceous. Every single discussion has to end peacefully or on a good note or it'll bother the hell out of you. At all times, you have to remind people you're progressive, you care about women (weird to me that it's ALWAYS women) and you're a good person. I look at that and say what point is there in forcing a convo to end on a good note? You can't do that; you're kidding yourself and lying to yourself, because if a convo ends on a bad note, it ends on a bad note. And the constant reminders about how much you care about women or in this case, the workers at Gawker, just comes off as total bull. In my mind, you're either a troll, or you're a sad little man who is so haunted by fears that people might perceive you as a bad person or that you ARE a bad person, that you let those exact fears govern your every opinion, to the point where the opinion forms before the reasoning behind the opinion has even made sense in your brain. Hey, what I'm saying may hurt, but it's called "honesty," and as I've said you can learn a lot from it.

 

 

Every post you make comes across as the most fake, disingenuine thing ever. You're like the definition of those guys that ask "how was your day" purely for the politeness of it but don't actually care or pay attention to the answer. I mean I have no doubt that you're gonna respond to this post with something along the lines of "oh ok this is a very helpful post and I thank you for your input!" What I do doubt is if you actually read it. So many of your posts are just empty statements that fail to say anything beyond "good point." You never explain why or how, you never explain your reasoning, you never provide evidence you actually read or comprehended what anyone says to you, you never do anything. And hell, you never voice criticism ever unless it's deemed allowable by your weird overly-progressive moral compass.

So yeah, if I'm being as frank as possible, you seem like a sad individual who is living your life letting the opinions of others govern who you are and how you should act, all out of fear of being perceived as bad or evil or something. You hear "WOMEN GOOD, MEN BAD" and repeat it like a friggin' caveman without being able to explain ANY of the reasons behind your logic, and why? Because one they're not logical and two it's not YOUR false logic to begin with. You just parrot all the "good karma" political stances you've heard without bothering to comprehend them (if that's even possible), and that's evident by how poorly you argue them....if at all. As I said, your posts are nonstop empty statements devoid of any substance, and it always seems evident that you're more concerned with your image and seeming like a good person than you are in....well, actually having a god damned debate.

 

 

Seriously though, here's a challenge for you: quote one post for me in this entire thread where you actually make an argument. You'll find that all of your arguments are "I don't think so." That's it. You just disagree without stating why. Anyone else on these forums, whether I agree with them or not, I can expect them to explain to me why they think the way they do. But you? You cannot even back up any of your own stances or beliefs, and I'm personally of the opinion your opinion about Gawker "changed" not because we actually convinced you, but because you noticed you were the ONLY person in the entirety of the forums that was opting to defend them, thus you perceived what you're doing must be "bad" and caved not because you actually listened to anything anyone said, but because for you, life is just a desperate attempt to be perceived as a good person.

 

Well I'll tell you, it's not working. I've said before, quite frankly, that I don't respect your opinions, because as I just pointed out, I don't think your opinions have any reasoning behind them. Why would I give time of day to a person who has their opinions solely due to peer pressure or some other weird social phenomina with their thinking pattern? I respect those who can say "I am against strong criminal charges for false rape accusations because A, B, and C," not those who say "I am against strong criminal charges for false rape accusations because it is wrong and I have always been a nice man who respects women and is concerned with achieving equality for them."

 

Nothing that you say makes anyone think "wow what a nice guy!" Infact I'm often sitting here thinking "wow what a fruit" or "Bruce is the poster child for that saying 'Don't be too open-minded or your brain will fall out.'" I also think there's probably a lot of people that think you can be rather passive aggressive, which if you didn't know, can be a very ugly personality trait to have.

 

 

 

Yes that's a wall of text, and yes that's a wall of text that neither you nor anyone else asked for. All the same, I posted it because quite frankly, if you go through this thread, it's "Everyone else vs. Bruce's drunk-as-hell moral compass." Half the thread is you grasping at straws and attempting to downplay Gawker's horrendous acts. And why? Because they're on your "side" and they're "good progressives." ....That's another pet peeve of mine: people that blindly defend others on their "side" without actually asking if they agree with that person or group whatsoever. But I've ranted enough. Point is that quite frankly I think you irritate the ever-living hell out of a lot of people, it's just some are more reluctant than others to say it.

 

[spoilered only to save screen space.]

 

If I have time later, I may add to what you say here, but I want to at least say I very much appreciate the energy and time you took to write that, and I agree 100% with your observations on Bruce. While they very likely might be lost on Bruce himself (and seem to be based on his replies), know at least that you are not alone in your observation and opinion on this matter.

 

Thank you for writing what you wrote.

 

Yes I keep saying that, Im glad he wrote that because I now understand the issue

 

Some people judge me on expected Internet etiquette, I cannot do that as I am only capable of one way of acting :  RL Etiquette 

 

 Hence the misunderstandings which you are perpetuating

 

 

No Bruce.

 

I at least am not judging you by some 'internet etiquette', and I don't think Longknife or at least most of the rest of the people here are either.

 

I fully expect you to be just about exactly as you are on this forum in the 'real world', and the same goes for almost everyone else here.

[Bartimaeus]

At least he'll always have these funny posts that he can show all the ladies he meets at parties to!

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

Can  I ask you a question and please be honest as the feedback is important to me. From my side I consider you someone who I  have never had any issues having a debate with. I consider our forum interaction very healthy but how have you found me..am I rude at times, condescending? Or am I normal to you ?

 

 

 

Hi, you didn't ask me. Don't give a ****, here's my answer:

 

You remind me of my grandfather in some ways. He was absolutely spineless and followed orders to a ridiculous degree. Like I could tell him to go punch my father in the face and the only thing that would stop him from doing so is if my father ordered him NOT to punch him in the face before it happened, at which point he could order him to come murder me and I better hope I get a chance to give an order before it happens. Think this was his coping mechanism to absolve himself of any guilt from having been a Nazi. Dunno the details but sounds like he worked a machine gun and gunned down a LOT of people, so I imagine it left him with some serious scars.

 

But you don't come across as spineless in that sense. You come across as so god damned absorbed with your image and with being a good person that you as a person have little substance to your name. You do things based on how good they're perceived to be, with that actually taking precedence over your own impulses and gut feelings. I mean sure enough, here you are defending Gawker when some of their own workers and witnesses worked against them in court all because Gawker says progressive stuff and progressive = good right? So opposition = bad? And you're failing at objective thought as you sit here focusing on Hulk Hogan as if that has **** all to do with this. Dude if Hitler has a sex tape leaked, Hitler still has a right to a trial. There is no "yeah but you stole a wallet that time so nope the court system never helps you."

 

 

 

But let's not focus on that so much, cause this is about you. You focus on being perceived as good, you don't seem to react on your ACTUAL thoughts, opinions or emotions. No, you silence those. Great example: I will confess that I am very cautious around the transgender community because probably a third of the transgender individuals I've met are damned crazy, in my opinion. They'll look in a mirror and see the sexiest woman alive, complimenting themselves, then ask for a compliment and I'll be sitting there thinking "dude I can see your ****ing adam's apple and you still have a man-jaw, let's be real here." I also think one should acknowledge that biology IS going to work against transgender individuals in the sense that, for example, biology is smart: what men consider a nice ass is often a sign a woman can provide safe childbirth, and did you know attractive people tend to have higher IQs? Your body tries to advertise all it's strengths and problems: there's an evolutionary reason why warts or a bad scent will disgust people for example. And for transgender individuals? Your body is gonna recognize "something is wrong." It won't feel disgust (usually), it won't feel anger or hate, but it DAMNED WELL won't feel attraction. As such, if I meet a transgender individual that can calmly admit to being transgender and understand they stand out like a sore thumb and rarely (if ever) attract their desired gender, but the gender swap makes them feel better all the same? More power to these people. The ones I've met that seem to be living in this fantasy world where OMG IM A WOMAN NOW AND EVERYONE THINKS I LOOK FEMININE AND I MUST NEVER ACKNOWLEDGE MY PAST NAME AGAIN!!! Yeah, they can gtfo. I keep my distance from these individuals not because transgender individuals bother me, but because delusional individuals bother me (I've met women who've attempted to lie to me and others about their fake boobs; same **** here, that bothers me), and sadly the delusion quota in the transgender community - in my experience - has been high. Nowhere near a majority, but still high. I've met three such individuals in my lifetime, which is three more than I cared to meet.

 

  I do not think my reaction is abnormal, offensive or strange. I just explained to you my reasoning, I in no way think anything I said was unreasonable. At no point did I state I was against transgender individuals or their rights; they deserve all of that. All the same, yes if I meet a transgender individual, I'm gonna be asking in my head if this is gonna be a normal one of a "I AM THE MOST BEAUTIFUL WOMAN EVER I WAS NEVER A MAN WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT" one. And the moment I get a hint of the latter type, I'm gone.

 

Now let's talk about you: I can imagine you having the same impulses where you see a transgender individual and your mind/body reacts with a "NOPE." That's natural. But what I can't imagine is that you'd admit to this....actually I could imagine you saying it now that I've brought it up solely for the sake of trying to come across as relateable, but admitting to it on your own, without someone else provoking it out of you? No, you'd claim there's no issue whatsoever, because you wanna be a good person. You'd NEVER admit to anything that can remotely resemble prejudice, because what would people think!! You've gotta continue trying to look like the nicest, most morally good person ever! And so you lie. You lie to yourself, you lie to others. You convince yourself you don't have these impulses, you tell everyone those impulses don't exist. But in doing so, you fail to sit down and critically ask yourself who you are, what makes you tick and why you think the way you do. On two seperate occassions, I have respectfully confessed my "prejudices" towards the transgender community to a transgender individual. On both cases, we had a meaningful discussion that helped me understand myself and the transgender community better. The second individual was even happy to hear me say what I said, and then began complaining that so many people now "fetishize" or use the transgender community for political statements without understanding them themselves. They'll sit there and claim ridiculous things like anyone who doesn't find a transgender person attractive is a prejudice bigot, or they'll attempt to downplay how serious a gender change is, the result being that actual experts or support groups are sometimes laughable because they've been fed bull**** by some hipster SJWs who just said **** to make the trans community feel more accepted rather than speaking about what they truly are and what problems they truly face. (wish I could recall the exact details, sadly this convo took place two years ago)

 

 

I'm not afraid to admit to any thought that goes through my mind because what purpose is there in ever lying to myself? When I was 14 I saw a documentary on an assassination attempt on Adolf Hitler. In it, they determined a table leg saved Hitler's life by diminishing how much of a blast from a suitcase bomb hit him. To try and make everyone feel better about those terrible results, one of the German war veterans in attendance said they think Hitler had to survive that, because he believed that had Hitler died that day, he would've died a hero rather than a villain, because this was before his artocities came to light.

  That blew my mind. The idea that the guy who's synonymous with the word "evil" almost died a hero...? Blew my mind. It made me realize...do my friends like me, or do they only like the ILLUSION of me that I've presented? Of course I only show them my best traits, of course I hide my worst....but what's the point in that? I do want to be judged. I do want people to know who I truly am, and that way, I can know if people truly like and agree with me or not. Even if the world determined I was a terrible person, all the same I am who I am and I should be proud of who I am, and wear my personality on my sleeve like a badge of pride.

 

 

....Then there's you. Sometimes I read your post and I feel like you're my antithesis. I get the sense that you and I are, in many ways, complete opposites. Every post of yours is so polite it could make school children nauceous. Every single discussion has to end peacefully or on a good note or it'll bother the hell out of you. At all times, you have to remind people you're progressive, you care about women (weird to me that it's ALWAYS women) and you're a good person. I look at that and say what point is there in forcing a convo to end on a good note? You can't do that; you're kidding yourself and lying to yourself, because if a convo ends on a bad note, it ends on a bad note. And the constant reminders about how much you care about women or in this case, the workers at Gawker, just comes off as total bull. In my mind, you're either a troll, or you're a sad little man who is so haunted by fears that people might perceive you as a bad person or that you ARE a bad person, that you let those exact fears govern your every opinion, to the point where the opinion forms before the reasoning behind the opinion has even made sense in your brain. Hey, what I'm saying may hurt, but it's called "honesty," and as I've said you can learn a lot from it.

 

 

Every post you make comes across as the most fake, disingenuine thing ever. You're like the definition of those guys that ask "how was your day" purely for the politeness of it but don't actually care or pay attention to the answer. I mean I have no doubt that you're gonna respond to this post with something along the lines of "oh ok this is a very helpful post and I thank you for your input!" What I do doubt is if you actually read it. So many of your posts are just empty statements that fail to say anything beyond "good point." You never explain why or how, you never explain your reasoning, you never provide evidence you actually read or comprehended what anyone says to you, you never do anything. And hell, you never voice criticism ever unless it's deemed allowable by your weird overly-progressive moral compass.

So yeah, if I'm being as frank as possible, you seem like a sad individual who is living your life letting the opinions of others govern who you are and how you should act, all out of fear of being perceived as bad or evil or something. You hear "WOMEN GOOD, MEN BAD" and repeat it like a friggin' caveman without being able to explain ANY of the reasons behind your logic, and why? Because one they're not logical and two it's not YOUR false logic to begin with. You just parrot all the "good karma" political stances you've heard without bothering to comprehend them (if that's even possible), and that's evident by how poorly you argue them....if at all. As I said, your posts are nonstop empty statements devoid of any substance, and it always seems evident that you're more concerned with your image and seeming like a good person than you are in....well, actually having a god damned debate.

 

 

Seriously though, here's a challenge for you: quote one post for me in this entire thread where you actually make an argument. You'll find that all of your arguments are "I don't think so." That's it. You just disagree without stating why. Anyone else on these forums, whether I agree with them or not, I can expect them to explain to me why they think the way they do. But you? You cannot even back up any of your own stances or beliefs, and I'm personally of the opinion your opinion about Gawker "changed" not because we actually convinced you, but because you noticed you were the ONLY person in the entirety of the forums that was opting to defend them, thus you perceived what you're doing must be "bad" and caved not because you actually listened to anything anyone said, but because for you, life is just a desperate attempt to be perceived as a good person.

 

Well I'll tell you, it's not working. I've said before, quite frankly, that I don't respect your opinions, because as I just pointed out, I don't think your opinions have any reasoning behind them. Why would I give time of day to a person who has their opinions solely due to peer pressure or some other weird social phenomina with their thinking pattern? I respect those who can say "I am against strong criminal charges for false rape accusations because A, B, and C," not those who say "I am against strong criminal charges for false rape accusations because it is wrong and I have always been a nice man who respects women and is concerned with achieving equality for them."

 

Nothing that you say makes anyone think "wow what a nice guy!" Infact I'm often sitting here thinking "wow what a fruit" or "Bruce is the poster child for that saying 'Don't be too open-minded or your brain will fall out.'" I also think there's probably a lot of people that think you can be rather passive aggressive, which if you didn't know, can be a very ugly personality trait to have.

 

 

 

Yes that's a wall of text, and yes that's a wall of text that neither you nor anyone else asked for. All the same, I posted it because quite frankly, if you go through this thread, it's "Everyone else vs. Bruce's drunk-as-hell moral compass." Half the thread is you grasping at straws and attempting to downplay Gawker's horrendous acts. And why? Because they're on your "side" and they're "good progressives." ....That's another pet peeve of mine: people that blindly defend others on their "side" without actually asking if they agree with that person or group whatsoever. But I've ranted enough. Point is that quite frankly I think you irritate the ever-living hell out of a lot of people, it's just some are more reluctant than others to say it.

 

[spoilered only to save screen space.]

 

If I have time later, I may add to what you say here, but I want to at least say I very much appreciate the energy and time you took to write that, and I agree 100% with your observations on Bruce. While they very likely might be lost on Bruce himself (and seem to be based on his replies), know at least that you are not alone in your observation and opinion on this matter.

 

Thank you for writing what you wrote.

 

Yes I keep saying that, Im glad he wrote that because I now understand the issue

 

Some people judge me on expected Internet etiquette, I cannot do that as I am only capable of one way of acting :  RL Etiquette 

 

 Hence the misunderstandings which you are perpetuating

 

 

No Bruce.

 

I at least am not judging you by some 'internet etiquette', and I don't think Longknife or at least most of the rest of the people here are either.

 

I fully expect you to be just about exactly as you are on this forum in the 'real world', and the same goes for almost everyone else here.

 

Thanks for still debating with me ..you could just ignore me but I will be honest in response.

 

Almost all people will have 2 personalities, an Internet one and one in RL...I shouldnt have to point this out to you?

 

I have only one, my RL one. Thats why I dont get most of the insults....but I'm not stupid

 

Longknifes post was suppose to be very critical and I assumed he thought I would be offended as I would realize he is on to me

 

But I can only be honest, he is wrong. But lets say he was right ...its would mean I am a false and deeply dysfunctional person. It would mean I have been lying for 3 years to everyone....

 

And you say you think that is fact and in RL you assume I am like that.....but why would you want to engage with someone like that? I wouldn't want to ....so unless you have really bad friends why would you truly believe LK and yet engage with me? 

[Meshugger]

I, uh, wow. What a read the last two pages has been.

[Volourn]

"And yes I dont think its right what Gawker did with the lady celebrates...its worse than what they did with Hogan as he is real attention seeker....he is a wrestler and he was involved in a immoral act  "

 

Wait. And, Jennifer Lawrence isn't an attention seeker? COME ON.

 

Also, it should be noted attention seekers they may be but NEITHER asked for their private moments to be shared with the world.  How is eitehr situation different except one has a **** and the one has a vagina? Your inherent sexism is showing.

[Hiro Protagonist]

Barti you need to read Longknifes post about me, it may make  lots of sense but its 90 % wrong 

 

But its  a good read as a lesson in Internet misunderstandings 

 

What was the 10% that was right?

[BruceVC]

 

Barti you need to read Longknifes post about me, it may make  lots of sense but its 90 % wrong 

 

But its  a good read as a lesson in Internet misunderstandings 

 

What was the 10% that was right?

 

 

Yeah okay I was just being polite, I am not sure I agree with much but if I had to I'm sure I could find  10 %

 

But Im glad LK wrote it , its helped me understand why people misunderstand me

 

Hiro you never use to speak to me but we chat now? You thought I was trolling you I think but even back then I was just joking and my RL etiquette was confusing people who thought I was being rude. I'm not blaming you because I did use to sometimes provoke you ...sorry about that  

[Hiro Protagonist]

I'm sure I could find  10 %

 

What was the 10% that was right?

[BruceVC]

 

I'm sure I could find  10 %

 

What was the 10% that was right?

 

Going through that scathing and egregiously misplaced assessment of me is not something I feel like doing on Easter...later

[Hiro Protagonist]

Nice cop out. Why doesn't that surprise me.

[BruceVC]

Nice cop out. Why doesn't that surprise me.

Okay I see you havent changed, my bad

 

You think because I dont want to go through  that incorrect view of me  it is a cop out 

Why would you think I would want to scrutinize that post ...you think Im some sort  of masochist ?

[Meshugger]

Bruce, i think that you have more in common with Qistina than you would like to admit.

 

If you do not know what i mean, then you have something to ponder about during Easter.

Edited March 25, 2016 by Meshugger