Questions on Stats

[Stasis_Sword]

I'm curious about how stat checks play out in the game. I know this isn't Planescape where stat checks always give the best outcome, but if the difference between a 14 and 15 is opening up 20 dialog options I think that's worth knowing.

 

Assumption 1: I'm assuming that there isn't some magic list of all the stat checks floating around (I haven't found it if it exists).

Assumption 2: I'm assuming stat checks aren't evenly distributed  (i.e. 12 can pass 10 checks, 13 can pass 10 more checks, 14 can pass 10 more checks)

 

From my limited experience I'm guess the magic numbers go something like this (hopefully people with more experience can help check these):

< 13: Not enough to pass any checks

13: Able to pass "low checks"

15: Able to pass "medium checks"

18: Able to pass "high"/almost all checks

21+: Pass all checks

 

What stats are easy/hard to raise with equipment and abilities? For example in Planescape if you had a mage charisma was really easy to raise with the friends spell so the base value wasn't a huge deal, or in BG2 the gauntlets of dexterity allowed you to get one character to 18 dex easily.

Edited March 13, 2016 by Stasis_Sword

[Stargazer55]

The highest requirement I've seen was 20, somewhere late in the game.

 

My recent character started with Per 14, Int 15, Res 15 and was able to pass every conversation check. Yes, some required putting on a certain item, getting a certain rest bonus and (once or twice) eating a certain delicacy but all in all it was no trouble.

 

I would say that all stats are equally easy/hard to raise. You can get +3 by selecting the appropriate room at the inn, +2 to +4 from items, +2 from food and (if all else fails) +2 from a prostitute at the brothel.

 

In other words: As long as don't dump one of the mental stats, you'll be fine. Don't let the min-maxers, steam guide authors and self-proclaimed Youtube experts tell you otherwise.

Edited March 13, 2016 by Stargazer55

[kvaak]

The single most important stat is resolve since your player character handles the dialogue. Scripted encounters can require various stats and skills but you can often use your companions on those.

 

There isn't really a magic number for resolve, there's definitely more than one check that requires 20 and IIRC there's at least one that requires as much as 21. Those are rather extreme though, 15 is enough most of the time and 18 is enough for practically every single encounter.

 

As for raising resolve, you can get +3 from dragon eggs/meat but those are fairly expensive and only last for a short duration. On top of that there are multiple items with +2 resolve and one weapon (in WM2) that increases your resolve by +1. In the first area of WM1 you can get a ring that increases your resolve by 3 and there's a set of gauntlets that increases your resolve by 4, I can't remember whether it's at the very end of WM1 or somewhere in WM2. Resting in Caed Nua can further increase your resolve by 3. Big Durmsey in the Salty Mast can further increase your resolve by 2 which stacks with the resting bonus.

 

So the grand total is 3 (resting) + 4 (gloves) + 1 (soulbound sword) + 2 (Salty Mast) + 3 (dragon egg/meat) = 13, allowing you to pass every single check at 8 resolve, or 11 without food.

 

So how hard are these to get? Food is expensive and the sword and the gloves pop up rather late. By act 2 you should have easy access to a +2 resolve item, +3 resting bonus from Caed Nua and +2 from Salty Mast. As soon as you start WM1 you can upgrade the piece of equipment to +3 for a grand total of +8. Assuming a default resolve of 10, 10+8 won't allow you to pass every single resolve check but only a very small number of them require more than that and if you can afford the dragon egg/meat you can boost it up to 21 which is enough for every encounter in the game.

 

There are some checks before you get access to Caed Nua or the Salty Mast and you won't have access to a lot of boosts before that, but once you hit act 2 a base resolve of 10 should be more than enough to pass almost every single check you'll run into. Alternatively if you start with 18 resolve you don't really have to worry about resolve checks at any point in the game, if you get that much you'll probably want to wear the highest boosting item you have anyway.

 

Intellect is also used a fair amount but my current dumbass PotD paladin hasn't run into a situation where int is required for the best outcome. It might offer shortcuts but usually there's an alternative choice that's just as good. Might is sometimes used for aggressive checks and perception pops up now and then too.

 

Of course you can always reset your PC and pump resolve to 18 if you feel like it. It's a bit cheesy but whatever floats your boat.

 

E: Oh, and if you avoid the fight with WM2's optional superboss you can get a talent that grants you +1 to a bunch of stats, including resolve. It comes into play so late it won't make a difference really though.

Edited March 13, 2016 by kvaak

[Stasis_Sword]

There isn't really a magic number for resolve, there's definitely more than one check that requires 20 and IIRC there's at least one that requires as much as 21. Those are rather extreme though, 15 is enough most of the time and 18 is enough for practically every single encounter.

 

I don't feel the need to necessarily pass every conversation stat check in the game, but this is confirming my initial assumption that there are certain "magic numbers". If it character creation you can have 14 in one stat and 11 in another or 15 in one stat and 10 in another, the 15 might be worth it to past certain dialog checks.

 

Thanks for listing some of the numerous stat boosts. It sounds like you can significantly boost certain stats at key moments if you need to.

[Braven]

I have seen it range from 10 stat checks to 20. Generally, most are around 14-17. Higher numbers tend to be more impactful, but not always. Resolve seems to be the most important (sometimes using that stat is the only way to resolve a problem peacefully).

 

That said, overall it makes little impact. There are always multiple solutions. You might just have to kill someone instead of resolve a problem peacefully, but that could be actually good (for loot). Or, if you are not against reloading a save game, you can use temporary stat boosters (food, items...) to get the number you need if you really want a specific conversation option.

Edited March 13, 2016 by Braven

[Stargazer55]

The lore skill can help you a lot as well

[AndreaColombo]

From my experience, RES and PER enable most dialog options (with RES enabling the most), followed by INT, the Lore skill, and the Survival skill (the latter having a fairly small impact.)

 

There are some checks on MIG for threatening your interlocutor (mostly increasing your Aggressive disposition) or DEX to rush your enemy or catch stuff, but they are few and far between. MIG, DEX, and CON all have checks in scripted interactions, however, alongside Athletics and—to a much lesser extent—Mechanics.

 

It is worth noting that dialog options unlocked by skills and stats are not always necessarily the best. Some of them may belong to a disposition you are not pursuing, or result in a subpar outcome.

 

I was pretty happy with my high-PER, high-Lore protagonist in terms of dialog. Sometimes I wished I had more INT to enable a few more options, but I've never cared too much for RES even though it is the stat the unlocks the most stuff (and allows for a peaceful resolution in some tough encounters.)

Edited March 13, 2016 by AndreaColombo

[Ymarsakar]

Cheap food buffs will usually raise any stat to +2, apart from resolve.

 

The self buff Watcher ability gives +2 to all stats. I usually go with Per, because the text descriptions are fun for it. Int is also pretty good. Resolve doesn't seem like it's an actual role being played out. It's seems more like some kind of skill check to persuade or charm people.

 

In Planescape, Charisma was its own "character" almost. The dialogue choices were "in character". You just didn't know which character it was, because it had nothing to do with your combat stats. As the game went on, you realized how the "smooth talker" personality is when linked to story events.

 

Dexterity was tied to the thief sub character and sub arcs. INT/Wisdom was tied to the pragmatic/good roles. It was definitely a distinct personality I saw in those lines of dialogue. People say the best one was the longest, but that was only true in the sense that it made the most sense to Chris Avellone's philosophy. He tended to write more when he was engaged more. The other options were in character for other types of roles, not just other types of reactions.

 

Per's range is 12-16 for most of them. INT's range tends to be higher.

Edited March 13, 2016 by Ymarsakar

[Stasis_Sword]

Curse you Ymarsakar. Now I feel the need to replay Planescape and check that the different dialog options really match up to the different incarnations. I'm supposed to be finishing this game...

[KDubya]

As others have stated having a stat open up another dialogue is not required and many times is not the statement you want to make. This really matters with Paladins, especially if you take off the training wheels and remove the labels. This forces you to choose what best fits your character.

 

To me Perception opens up the observation type of information and questioning. Like a detective noticing clues. Fits any type of personality.

 

Intellect seems to open up the clever "lawyer like word parsing" type statements. The type that gets around an obstacle through the use of a contractual loophole.

 

Resolve seems to open up the sheer willpower and force of personality type statements. The type that does the right thing not the easy thing.

 

I frequently find it hard to roleplay a guy with both the intellect and resolve conversations opened. To me a high Resolve guy would not choose the loophole choice that Intellect guy can choose, YMMV.

[Crucis]

One thing that I'd suggest is that unless you ABSOLUTELY want every possible dialog option, you'll do just fine if you focus on only one, maybe two of PER, INT, and RES, depending on your character and his class' needs.

 

I just finished a party with a Rogue PC who had a very high PER and unremarkable INT and RES scores, and I managed to do just fine.  Of course, different classes will have different attributes which will work to your advantage with dialogs.  For example, Wizards and most other spellcasters are likely to want a very high INT.  Rogues and Rangers tend to like very high PER.  Fighters and paladins often like having solid RES scores.  Different classes will have a natural tendency to lean towards favoring one of those 3 attributes over the other two.

[Stasis_Sword]

KDubya thanks for that informative post.

 

I wasn't planning to get all the conversation options. My two main questions were:

1). Are certain numbers significantly better for checks (like 15 compared to 14)? Which seems to be somewhat true

2). Are there any stats that are super hard/easy to raise (to prioritize/dump)? Answer to this one seems to be they're fairly equal.

[AndreaColombo]

Caed Nua resting bonuses exist for all stats and amount to +3; same applies to the +2 bonuses from food. +4 items exist for all stats, but no +3 item is there for INT. Weapon bonuses to attributes, which stack with bonuses from other equipment, are available for MIG, CON, and RES (can't recall any others.)

[Stasis_Sword]

Caed Nua resting bonuses exist for all stats and amount to +3; same applies to the +2 bonuses from food. +4 items exist for all stats, but no +3 item is there for INT. Weapon bonuses to attributes, which stack with bonuses from other equipment, are available for MIG, CON, and RES (can't recall any others.)

Your ability to rattle that information off is both impressive and a little scary 

Edited March 13, 2016 by Stasis_Sword

[Kaylon]

Caed Nua resting bonuses exist for all stats and amount to +3; same applies to the +2 bonuses from food. +4 items exist for all stats, but no +3 item is there for INT. Weapon bonuses to attributes, which stack with bonuses from other equipment, are available for MIG, CON, and RES (can't recall any others.)

Ryona's Breastplate gives +3int and there's a hunting bow giving +1per.

[Ymarsakar]

Curse you Ymarsakar. Now I feel the need to replay Planescape and check that the different dialog options really match up to the different incarnations. I'm supposed to be finishing this game...

 

You will. After all, what are you going to do when Torment Tides come out? You'll have to get Pillars done by then, it's a deadline almost.

 

Torment Tides is probably this year or Q1 2017 if setbacks occur. 

 

As for Andrea, time in Pillars would definitely be in the triple digits by now. 

Edited March 16, 2016 by Ymarsakar