Quality of the new class skills

[Elric Galad]

That's what I was speaking only about passive bonus. And disciplined barrage is not suitable for a fighter because fighter point is to last forever on the battlefield.

 

Ciphers don't save abilities cause ciphers don't have abilities in the first place. Ciphers and fighters just have separate levelling.

 

Cipher biting whip is totally imbalanced as a talent ; for me it's just another class defining trait, it shall not be compared to other talents.

 

Fighters and ciphers are just 2 decent martial damage dealer. Fighter's point is to be nearly unkillable. Cipher is a "casual" spell caster specialised in crowd controller.

[DreamWayfarer]

That's what I was speaking only about passive bonus. And disciplined barrage is not suitable for a fighter because fighter point is to last forever on the battlefield.

High INT Fighters are more than viable for PoTD. And they are also quite hard to kill, even if you don't take your self healing to the levels of the "Glass Tsunami" build.

[Elric Galad]

I don't say they're bad

 

Just that they are in contradiction with what I expect from a fighter. Totally subjective. That's why I was happy to discover that critical defense works against every attack, so I can let down Vigorous defense.

 

Minor problem is that vigorous & disciplined don't stack with some spells like circle of protection and galant focus. They're better than these spells, but it reduces their interest.

Unbroken, Immunity and Recovery don't have this problem by the way.

[Braven]

Yeah, I was sad about gallant focus not stacking with barrage. I presume actual paladin aura doesn't either. There are so many good fighter abilities, you can easily skip ones you don't like, or does not fit with your party setup. I had a tough time choosing.

 

Unbending is a very nice alternative which seems to stack with everything and I have seen it give insane numbers; hundreds of endurance restored over time.

Edited March 18, 2016 by Braven

[Ymarsakar]

That's what I was speaking only about passive bonus. And disciplined barrage is not suitable for a fighter because fighter point is to last forever on the battlefield.

 

Ciphers don't save abilities cause ciphers don't have abilities in the first place. Ciphers and fighters just have separate levelling.

 

Cipher biting whip is totally imbalanced as a talent ; for me it's just another class defining trait, it shall not be compared to other talents.

 

Fighters and ciphers are just 2 decent martial damage dealer. Fighter's point is to be nearly unkillable. Cipher is a "casual" spell caster specialised in crowd controller.

 

That's like saying knockdown is insuitable because it doesn't last forever on a fighter.

[Elric Galad]

Well maybe. For some reasons I like knockdown.

 

But as I said in my previous post : that's subjective.

[Teioh_White]

I'm not super keen on Knockdown overall. And extra 3 damage and 4 seconds of CC on one mob, twice a fight, isn't super impressive. Game just has too much emphasis on large mobs of crap for it to have a huge impact. Of the two, I honestly prefer Barrage, just for a boost to para scroll Acc for tough fights. A few crits on those can end a fight in a hurry.

 

Of course, the level 3 talents are equally meh for Fighter, so I often take Knockdown anyways. Though with WM2 having numerous Kith mobs with defense in 120+, Confidant Aim gets a nice shot in the arm. Outside of that though, few things break 85+, limiting it's usefulness.

[Crucis]

I'm not super keen on Knockdown overall. And extra 3 damage and 4 seconds of CC on one mob, twice a fight, isn't super impressive. Game just has too much emphasis on large mobs of crap for it to have a huge impact. Of the two, I honestly prefer Barrage, just for a boost to para scroll Acc for tough fights. A few crits on those can end a fight in a hurry.

 

Of course, the level 3 talents are equally meh for Fighter, so I often take Knockdown anyways. Though with WM2 having numerous Kith mobs with defense in 120+, Confidant Aim gets a nice shot in the arm. Outside of that though, few things break 85+, limiting it's usefulness.

 

 I'm not bothered in the LEAST by your so-called "mobs of crap".  Indeed, I'm sick and tired of reading all the complaints about them. 

 

As for Knockdown, it's useful as a means of breaking engagement, though I can see the value of the Barrage ability as well.

[Teioh_White]

Eh? Wasn't complaining about it. Just describing gameplay. Unless you mean you already handle mobs of crap just fine, so Knockdown being underwhelming in those situations isn't a big deal. Which gets us to another issue: Is there a limit to how  'good' we can be, such that beating everything is simple, and that stomping the game even more doesn't matter?

 

But really, it was just about gameplay, which is really all I'm interested in. For example, Barb being better with a Rapier and a Dagger than a Giant Axe or whatever doesn't mean anything to me. The barb class could be called Spongebob and Carnage called Squarepants and all the animation look like something from Rugrats, and I wouldn't overly mind if it's practical gameplay is the same as it is now.

[Crucis]

Eh? Wasn't complaining about it. Just describing gameplay. Unless you mean you already handle mobs of crap just fine, so Knockdown being underwhelming in those situations isn't a big deal. Which gets us to another issue: Is there a limit to how  'good' we can be, such that beating everything is simple, and that stomping the game even more doesn't matter?

 

But really, it was just about gameplay, which is really all I'm interested in. For example, Barb being better with a Rapier and a Dagger than a Giant Axe or whatever doesn't mean anything to me. The barb class could be called Spongebob and Carnage called Squarepants and all the animation look like something from Rugrats, and I wouldn't overly mind if it's practical gameplay is the same as it is now.

 

Teioh, I guess the problem for me is that it gets annoying seeing lesser enemies called "trash".  It gets further annoying when the devs pull some of them out of the game because some people are perceived as complaining about "trash mobs".  They just don't bother me.  What's more, those mobs of lesser monsters are often found around some big boss, and can be some seriously annoying cannon fodder that can do real damage to your party on occasion, if you're not careful (and sometimes even if you are).

[Braven]

The Best benefit of confident aim is the +20% min damage. This is 10% net overall damage increase, it is not just an additive bonus applied to base weapon damage like most damage % modifiers. It multiplies existing damage modifiers.

[Teioh_White]

Wait, does C.Aim boost damage even if your not hitting min? Really boost that into a stellar skill if so.

 

And Crucis, as mentioned, I wasnt talking about the merits of encounter design; just how a skill performs in the current design. Seems you're just a bit primed on another topic, and saw a chance to rant.

[AndreaColombo]

It applies before DR, but to my understanding it only applies when your damage roll turns up the minimum amount (e.g. You roll 14 for damage with a two-hander.)

[Crucis]

Wait, does C.Aim boost damage even if your not hitting min? Really boost that into a stellar skill if so.

 

And Crucis, as mentioned, I wasnt talking about the merits of encounter design; just how a skill performs in the current design. Seems you're just a bit primed on another topic, and saw a chance to rant.

 

You can say that you were talking about something else.  But as long as you use the term "trash mob" or "mobs of crap", you will annoy the living hell outta me, because you are feeding the devs this line of bull that mobs of lesser enemies are a bad thing and perhaps need to be removed from the game, neither of which are true, IMO.  Those terms tick me off.  And I'm sick of people using them.

[AndreaColombo]

That I know of, "trash mob" is a commonly used term to describe non-boss, non-set-piece fights in cRPGs. It is not necessarily derogatory.

 

That said, we get you disagree with the reduction of said mobs in PoE. Personally, when I hit the level cap I don't want to waste my time auto-attacking the umpteenth unchallenging group of beetles, but YMMV.

[Tennisgolfboll]

Fighters with unbending, unbroken and triggered immunity are pretty much impossible to take down in any fight if you know how to use and gear them.

 

Im not saying that they are better than casters. But they are extremely durable with decent dmg. Bad CC ofc. Alot of people dont know just how strong unbending is. Better than triggered immunity and unbroken and both of em are really good!

 

I would rank priest and wiz as the most OP classes but after that I think its pretty even.

 

Rogue+barb the weakest (but not by much)

Edited March 19, 2016 by Tennisgolfboll

[Braven]

Confident aim min damage only helps when you are stopped by DR? Are you sure? I thought it helped the "damage range". Instead of doing between 25-35 damage, you would do like 28-35. The UI doesn't show anything at all, so it is hard to see what it does.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Braven

[AndreaColombo]

Confident aim min damage only helps when you are stopped by DR? Are you sure? I thought it helped the "damage range". Instead of doing between 25-35 damage, you would do like 28-35. The UI doesn't show anything at all, so it is hard to see what it does.

 

When your enemy's DR is so high it would cancel out your damage entirely, you deal minimum damage instead (shown in the combat log as "MIN.") That is NOT what Confident Aim applies to—that's what I meant with "it applies before DR." The wording can be confusing for when you read it boosts minimum damage, you could think it boosts the "MIN." you deal when your foe's DR is too high, but that is not the case. It does indeed help the range as you say (I asked Josh on Twitter a while ago and he confirmed.)

 

I do not know whether it boosts all damage bonuses too, though; I've always thought it would be additive (on a two-hander, your base damage would become 16.8–20 instead of 14–20.)

Edited March 19, 2016 by AndreaColombo

[Teioh_White]

Ah, that makes Aim a really good skill then. 10% more damage isn't shabby for talent, and WM2 has a few fights the Reliable effect isn't useless on.

 

One thing to think on for Rogues is their SA+DB work on scrolls. Magic has a hard time getting mods, so a Rogue dropping their massive mod bonus on them makes them scary effective. It's not really relevant to me, as you can't get enough scrolls without 'farming' them, which is just as bad to me as rest spamming. Still comes in nice for a tough fight for the rogue to go all 'nova' on a fight like a Wizzy would.

 

Amusingly enough, the other class that has little but its one passive to lean on, Barbarian, also used to be able to do dirty things with a few of the scrolls, but that was nerfed a few patches in. Can't let the dirty melee into the cool caster club afterall.

[Ymarsakar]

Trash mobs are to me, a fantasy mmo term, to relate to in raids where enemies are designed to delay your progress between bosses. Or in this case, quest battles and named npc fights. For people who over level and replay the game constantly, reducing them around certain areas in the base game provided more "equal" content, similar to dynamic level adjustment, and it saves time on several replays. It does reduce the difficulty of POTD, since it reduces the spawn tables for certain beginning levels. Which allows a more even progression between certain quests from Defiance. This "even ness" is also similar to their rationality for reducing Durance and GM's lines, to fit the other companions' percentage of lines that had VO.

 

It makes POTD easier, and it reduces the number of rests required to clear wilderness areas. At the beginning of Act 3 I think it was, when moving to second big city, the wilderness spirits were like an army. It was difficult to aggro one and run into a good position without aggroing another group at the same time. When they added immunities, perhaps they wanted to tone those encounters down, but they didn't remove like 50% of them, it's more like they had 10 enemies reduced to 2 +1 for hard +1 for potd.

 Although I'll have to play all of it before deciding just what they did to all these regions.

[Crucis]

Trash mobs are to me, a fantasy mmo term, to relate to in raids where enemies are designed to delay your progress between bosses. Or in this case, quest battles and named npc fights. For people who over level and replay the game constantly, reducing them around certain areas in the base game provided more "equal" content, similar to dynamic level adjustment, and it saves time on several replays. It does reduce the difficulty of POTD, since it reduces the spawn tables for certain beginning levels. Which allows a more even progression between certain quests from Defiance. This "even ness" is also similar to their rationality for reducing Durance and GM's lines, to fit the other companions' percentage of lines that had VO.

 

It makes POTD easier, and it reduces the number of rests required to clear wilderness areas. At the beginning of Act 3 I think it was, when moving to second big city, the wilderness spirits were like an army. It was difficult to aggro one and run into a good position without aggroing another group at the same time. When they added immunities, perhaps they wanted to tone those encounters down, but they didn't remove like 50% of them, it's more like they had 10 enemies reduced to 2 +1 for hard +1 for potd.

 Although I'll have to play all of it before deciding just what they did to all these regions.

 

Don't care.  To me, it's an annoying term.  It seems to me that the people who complain about so-called "trash mobs" are just too lazy to deal with them.  "Wahhhh!!!  Why do I have to deal with these little guys?  Why can't every fight be big boss fights?  WAHHH!!!"  The game shouldn't be about one boss fight after another.  All armies and groups have their grunts.  Your so-called "trash mobs" are often those grunts.  And heaven forbid that it takes you an extra rest to clear a wilderness area.   You want to play PoTD, then you should put up with the extra difficulty of everything thrown at you.  Cry me a river.

 

I personally wish that some of those wilderness areas would have some monsters respawn in them every so often.  Maybe lesser monsters.  And I wish that there were random encounters that occurred when you traveled from area to area, like in BG1/2.  Heaven forbid that you get waylayed traveling through Defiance Bay by some muggers, or between areas in Twin Elms by some unruly Fangs.  Or between wilderness areas by who knows what.  And heck, I wish that there'd be random encounters when/if you try to rest in the wilderness.

 

I want more of these monsters roaming the wilderness and so on, not less.  The Dyrwood shouldn't be like some nice tame inner city park.  It should be wild, and traveling should be risky.

Edited March 20, 2016 by Crucis

[Teioh_White]

All right, but its a public forum; vast majority reading don't care about anyones personal preference. Harping on your own unasked is pretty useless except for your own personal outlet.

 

No worries though, thats what we have an ignore feature for.

[Reent]

 

You want to play PoTD, then you should put up with the extra difficulty of everything thrown at you.

 

I have no problem if the difficulty is okay - if its too hard (dyrford crossing was ridiculous - sure, you could kite the enemies, but the quality of enemies was too high for that time of the game - it was simply not worth clearing more than necessary) its still okay - if its too easy its just not necessary at all - many fights were just many many many many enemies running at you and doing nothing - my chanter killed them on his own while doing nothing active - my tanks just lost a little bit hp - wow really, every 5 steps such a fight? I'd rather play diablo 3 - THESE FIGHTS ARE NOT NEEDED IN PILLARS - GO HOME.

 

(PS, if so you dont misunderstand: the go home is for the enemies in pillars)

Edited March 20, 2016 by Reent

[Ymarsakar]

To Crucis:

 

People may not care about what anyone else means on these forums, but if you want their diplomatic support, you won't get any as a result of ignoring other people's point of view. Which means, Obsidian will pay even less attention, if any, to isolated voices that even minor communities shun as a result of their emotional outbursts.

 

Of course, the rpg codex seems to be known for its emotional outbursts, even by foreigners that don't use ENglish as number 1 language, such as the Divine Divinity folks. (Unless they do, and I'm wrong there) But for the codex Obsidian and other developers still read and pay attention to them, that's because they provide content, which is traded for diplomatic and leverage influence.

Edited March 20, 2016 by Ymarsakar