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My question is specifically: Is Persistence the better than Lenas Er and Stormcaller with superb enchant and twin+stun+driwing arrow. The fact that it turns grazes to hits seems very good.

As a ranger playing in a party, your accuracy will be high enoughbto make grazes unlikely, so graze to hit conversion is not that good.

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I'm no expert but I have to say, I think Stormcaller will still top that especially once you unlock all it's capabilities.  As DreamWayfarer said, your accuracy as a ranger is already really high which means you shouldn't be getting many grazes.  It would probably be better suited to a non-ranger with a lower accuracy rating.  Stormcaller is just too awesome to pass up.

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If you want single target CC and hefty debuff: Lenas Er

 

If you want AoE CC and debuff:Stormcaller

 

If you want your pet to do tons of damage: Persistence.

 

I find all three to be very good bows. Few people know that the -5 defense from Disorienting on Lenas Er stacks. So Twinned Arrows will cause -10 to defenses with one shot. If you manage to shoot really fast and cause lots if crits, you can stack it for like -30 to -50 to all defenses. That's on top of the stun debuff! This also works against pierce immune enemies. But you get that bow very late. So I don't advice anyone to build a char around it. 

Edited by Boeroer
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Pestilence is good for the pet dps as Boeroer said, but really there are a lot of other ways to get a DoT on mobs. If you plan on having a dps ranger, make sure you have ways to apply DoTs. Wounding shot works good, and some other classes would work good in conjunction. A ranged rogue like Boeroer's Mad Hornet would be great, and druids work amazingly well for this also.

 

Once you get stormcaller I'd say there is no comparison from a dps perspective.

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In my experience, Lenas Er is best for killing big bosses while in a group (like the dragons - tanking their defence really helps).

Stormcaller is my favourite for general use. It does huge damage - you get the -10 lightning DR, you can crank the DPS by 20% with Heart of the Storm and the procs of Returning Storm are just a bonus.

 

Persistence is decent, but the only reason I'd consider taking it over Stormcaller is that you can put the Durgan enchantment on it (although that is massive).

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^ in 2.03 Stormcaller didn't benefit from Heart of the Storm. Was it fixed in 3.0 beta?

 

(It's a general issue with elemental talents and alternative damage types. Bittercut also didn't benefit from Spirit of Decay.)

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We'll see how they handle this. Aarik said the way the effect gets applied will be changed. So maybe they apply a new affliction "disoriented" which can't stack instead of applying an effect that is named after the weapon. Or something like that. If they do this then even disorienting effects of different weapons won't stack.

 

I wonder if they realized that the interfering enchantment also stacks...

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I wonder if they realized that the interfering enchantment also stacks...

 

And we certainly wouldn't want them to know that, would we? :p

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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  • 5 months later...

Old discussion, but I've been thinking about it lately.

 

First, I think Persistence is an amazing bow, that can be reached way too early in the game.

 

CloudPiercer and Lenas Er are bows that force you into specific paths, which for me is a knock against them. As one that roleplays a character, I don't want to solve a quest in a specific way because of an item.

 

I agree hunting bows are usually better than war bows too.

 

This leaves me with the main comparison of Persistence vs. Stormcaller.

1. I assume that both bows can be enchanted/leveled to Superb. That leaves us comparing the other traits they have.

2. At high level, by the time you get Stormcaller, Persistence' Reliability trait should be neglectable for a ranger, as was mentioned above. Wounding is a nice bonus though.

3. For Stormcaller, I find most traits to be 'nice to have', but not really a big deal. Such as Bulwark, Bolt, Storm. However, one cannot ignore the fact it will chooses between Pierce and Shock damage. Two damage types on a weapon, especially ranged which usually is only Pierce, is very valuable to have. This is made even better due to the -6 DR.

 

So between Wounding and the ability to produce Shock damage, I'd go with the Shock.

 

Still, when your ranger finally gives up Persistence for Stormcaller, consider other uses for it. For example, I find Persistence to be really good on a cipher, who could also use the Reliability trait of it. Start with big Blunderbuss shot, then switch to Persistence for speed.

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A few things in addition to what you said (which won't make the choice any easier ;)):

 

Persistence:

- The wounding enchantment stacks - this is especially good with Twinned Arrows

- Wounding gets influenced by MIG - high MIG means more pierce damage - this means also the raw lash will be higher. But it also raises the wounding damage itself.

- You can level it to legendary while Stormcaller "only" reaches superb (without any resources though)

- You can enchant it with durgan steel (+15% speed, hit-to-crit conversion, higher crit damage)

- The wounding's raw damage lash is calculated based on the damage before DR gets substracted. This even works on pierce immune foes. The wounding will always fully apply. You can kill everything with this bow, high DR or immunities will be no problem for the raw lash.

- Wounding triggers Predator's Sense

- Graze to hit can still be good against dragons, Concelhaut, bounty fighters and so on. All those fights that really matter. The trashmob fights are easy at higher lavels anyways - the weapon doesn't matter

- You can enchant it with an elemental lash, adding another +25% lash that gets calculated before DR (but gets substracted by 1/4 elemental DR).

 

Stormcaller:

-  Works with Heart of the Storm. Even the pierce damage gets boosted by 20%. It not only raises the weapon damage, b ut also the damage of the Returning Storm

- Returning Storm gets triggered a lot because of Twinned Arrows + Driving Flight. This means you hit 4 times with one shot, raising the chance to trigger Returning Storm from 10% per shot to ~35% per shot - so every third shot you will trigger a Returning Storm which stuns and does good damage.

- The cracking sound when Returning Storm procs is very satisfying. ;)

- The Returning Storm can stun other enemies as the ones you targeted with your stunning shots. 

 

However - they are both great weapons for rangers. I even did a playthrough with two rangers because I couldn't decide which bow to use. Both rangers had nearly the same damage numbers after the playthrough, Persistence slightly higher (and you can't see the damage dealt by the pet). Both can be obtained quite early (Persistence earlier of course).

 

I also like Stormcaller for a cipher because the -6 DR and +20% damage with Heart of the Storm really help with focus generation while Persistence's wounding does nothing for focus. It lacks an elemental lash (which works with focus generation) but the +20% make a bit up for this.

So, if you have a bow ranger and a bow cipher in the team you might want to give Persistence to the ranger and Stormcaller to the cipher.

Edited by Boeroer

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Persistence can be legendary, durgan enchanted and can have also a lash. For single target damage Persistence is clearly the winner. The nice thing about Stormcaller is the proc which is triggered pretty often with Twinned Arrows and Driving Flight.

 

PS. Beat by Boeroer... :p

PPS. Unfortunately wounding (same as lashes) does nothing vs targets immune to pierce...

Edited by Kaylon
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Hu? It should. Yesterday, I killed earth blights from the Dweller's party with a sabre + burning lash - only with the burn damage of the sabre (because they are immune to slash). And since wounding should work like elemental lashes it should also work like this, or not? Didn't test that with persistence lately though. 

Edited by Boeroer

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Hu? It should. Yesterday, I killed earth blights from the Dweller's party with a sabre + burning lash - only with the burn damage of the sabre (because they are immune to slash). And since wounding should work like elemental lashes it should also work like this, or not? Didn't test that with persistence lately though. 

 

It's due to a quirk of raw damage ApplyOverTime DoTs. Normal ApplyOverTime DoTs (like Enduring Flames, of the Goldpact Knight Paladin) compute their total damage from the source damage (weapon damage, typically) before DR, just like lashes. The raw damage ones however, perhaps for reasons of balance, are computed from the total damage *after* DR. Therefore, immunity against the piercing damage nixes the wounding damage as well.

 

Kinda wondering whether this is really intentional or not, I'll probably trace this through the code later tonight :).

 

Edit: yes, clearly deliberate. There's actually a separate PostDtDamagePlusDot type (normally they use the DamagePlusDot one). So also not inherently linked to it being raw damage, though I in all likelihood they have only used this for raw damage effects (and only for raw damage effects).

Edited by Loren Tyr
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