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We knew this was coming (Josh Sawyer SA posts), but it's live now in the beta 3.0 patch.

 

Even though it's technically a nerf, I find myself really liking it. There's no huge transition at level 9, and it lets a caster have a bit more "personality" if you will, in what spells they choose to master.

 

The hard part is choosing spells! What are your picks?

 

 

A few that seem obvious to me:

For Wizard, Deleterious Alacrity

For Druids, Returning Storm

 

Level 1 & 2 are harder. Probably Eldritch Aim and Sunbeam (though other choices are tempting). I would've said Miasma for Wizard, but not sure after the nerf.

 

Priests are tough too, since their spell choice varies a lot depending on situation. Repulsing Seal and Pillar of Faith seem like safe choices.

 

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My choice of 2nd-level Priest spell will be Suppress Afflictions. Can never have too many of those. 3rd level will be Dire Blessing; 4th level, Devotions for the Faithful.

 

Not sure about 1st level; guess it won't make too much of a difference anyway.

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"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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Since there are Rings of Unshackling (and they alwys seem to rain down on me - don't know why) I wouldn't choose Suppress Affliction - but to each his own! :) I know that you don't use Iconic Projection and Repulsing Seal a lot... because I'm a psychic! ;)

 

But just tell me: how does the Spell Mastery exactly work? I know you pick this one spell per level - but then? How many times can you cast it per encounter? And do you get an extra button for that mastered spell?

Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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IIRC you get one use of that spell per encounter on top of your per-rest uses. It does indeed get a new button, at least judging from Josh's screenshots on Instagram.

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"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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Yeah, but they also removed a number of trash-mob fights from Act III and the second half of Od Nua, so hopefully the whole experience will be more interesting.

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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I'd have infinitely prefered they just make every ability and spell in the game per-encounter instead. This just means you can't go through as many trash mobs as you used to before you have to rest.

Pick a paladin, wait till level 13 for the most annoying trash mobs in Od Nua (if any remain), use Sacred Immolation, watch how your pala alone owns the trash mobs.

(rest of the party can .... have a party????)

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Since there are Rings of Unshackling (and they alwys seem to rain down on me - don't know why) I wouldn't choose Suppress Affliction - but to each his own! :)

 

Indeed! My rationale for not using those rings is, why would I use up a perfectly good ring slot that I could use to powergame my characters into the stratosphere so they can cast a spell my Priest can already handle? The answer is, as with most other things on this forum, "different play style" :grin:

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"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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Yeah - usually all my foes are dead before I can think "Man, I really would want to cast Suppress Affliction now!".  :p

 

Now... that leaves room to discuss whether

 

a) I kill my foes very quickly

 

or

 

b) I think very slowly. ;)

Edited by Boeroer
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Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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How exactly does this work? Do you get the per-encounter spell at the same level that you previously would have gotten all the spells of a level as per-encounter? (In that case, you would get a level 1 per-encounter spell at level 9, a level 2 per-encounter spell at level 11, and so on.) Or do you get the per-encounter spell as soon as you have spells of that level? (In that case, you get a level 1 per-encounter spell at level 1, a level 2 per-encounter spell at level 3, and so on; and you'd eventually get level 6 and level 7 per-encounter spells, which you couldn't get before.)

 

If it is the latter, then this isn't really a nerf or a buff; it is just a change. It would actually make casters more powerful before level 9 and maybe less powerful after (but, again, that would depend on the details of the build). A per-encounter Citzal's Lance and Citzal's Martial Power would really buff the melee wizard build.

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Honestly, I think that the whole concept of per rest abilities is bothersome.

 

I'd rather see mechanics similar to cypher/monk introduced for wizards, priests and druids.

 

This system would probably work for all 3. All three classes get for example 8 "power pips". For wizards it would be something "Arcane Power", for priests "Divine Concentration", for Druids "Nature Attunement". Since all of these classes are based basically on concentration to cast, the mechanic works like this. For every say, 5 seconds in combat, you gain 1 pip. At the start of each fight you begin with say 2 pips for free, talents could modify this. Getting hit in combat would slow this gain down. A talent could be made to lessen or even nullify this malus.

 

A level 1 spell costs 1 pip, a level 2 spell costs 2 pips. They could also make it so, the more pips you have, the faster you gain further pips, so gaining all 8 power pips would not take 40 seconds, it might take 20 seconds IF you don't cast anything. This introduces an interesting opportunity cost decision. Do I spend my pips as I get them, putting out a lot of low level spells rapidly, or do I hold onto my pips so I can fire off a big spell, OR, do I hold onto the pips at the start of the fight and wait until I have a larger stack built up affording me a more rapid overall pip gain.

 

This would actually shift the burden of resting away from recuperating spells, but rather to the issue of accumulated wounds and injuries. Do I soldier on with my injuries, or do I head back to camp to deal with my injuries. As it stands right now, the resting mechanic is soley built  around recuperating spells. It adds a very minor tactical layer regarding spell conservation, but at the same time it adds that troublesome time sink mechanic where you're not being punished by using spells whenever you want, or for holding onto them, so long as you are willing to waste your time running to rest all the time. That isn't a good choice imo. 

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Honestly, I think that the whole concept of per rest abilities is bothersome.

 

I'd rather see mechanics similar to cypher/monk introduced for wizards, priests and druids.

 

The problem is they nerfed Ciphers big time, unless I'm missing something or there's a bug in my game. Time Parasite cost 70(!) focus, Amplified Wave 60, even good ole Mental Binding is now 20. I'm withholding judgement until I can figure out if there are other changes that balance this (like increased focus generation). If not, it seems a bit out of the blue.

 

On the bright side, high level Chanters only take 60% as much time for phrases (so 2.4s for level 1 phrase). High level phrases still compete with high level Invocations, but at least Chanter scales a bit now.

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Increased Focus costs would make Ciphers really horrible. Probably won't effect late game too much, since the Cipher usually ends up with a healthy Focus pool to play with anyway. But man, it probably won't even be worth dragging them along until then.

 

As for spell mastery, eh. Probably won't change my playstyle too much since I'm pretty trigger happy with spells anyway but personally I'd run with:

Wizard - Chill Fog, Mirrored Image/Combusting Wounds/Concelhaut's Corrosive Siphon/Miasma of Dull Mindness/Fetid Caress, Kalakoth's Minor Blights/Noxious Burst/Expose Vulnerabilities

Priest - Divine Terror, Holy Power/Suppress Affliction, Dire Blessing/Despondent Blows

Druid - Sunbeam/Tanglefoot, Insect Swarm/Conjure Lesser Blight, Returning Storm

 

The slashed ones are ones I can't decide between, especially with that horrible list with the Wizard's 2nd and 3rd level choices. I only use Alacrity in major battles so I'm willing to eat a per rest use for it. Stag's Horn, Fireball, Fan of Flames, Talon's Reach and Iconic Projection could've been choices as well, but I personally think they'll be less valuable if you're unable to cast them 4 times in a row without any care in the world.

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Amplified Wave was 35 Focus in 2.03; if 3.0 made it 60, like delfador suggests, that's +15.

Time Parasite from 40 to 70 is +30.

 

I'd call that rather hefty.

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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Amplified Wave was 35 Focus in 2.03; if 3.0 made it 60, like delfador suggests, that's +15.

Time Parasite from 40 to 70 is +30.

 

I'd call that rather hefty.

I thougt it was 50 for Wave before, but my last cipher is inactive since months, so I should have looked it up.

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Amplified Wave was 35 Focus in 2.03; if 3.0 made it 60, like delfador suggests, that's +15.

Time Parasite from 40 to 70 is +30.

 

I'd call that rather hefty.

It was posted in the updated patch notes. Amplified Wave does indeed now cost a hefty 60 focus now.

 

I wouldn't say it ruins Cipher as a whole, I mean as I said, they have plenty of Focus late game anyway to play around with. But early game is going to be much rougher with them as they'll struggle to use any powers beyond 1st and 2nd level initially. Amplified Wave will however lose its role as being the best battle opener though.

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^ thought it lost that role the moment many creatures became immune to Prone anyway (though with the introduction of Ground immunities, it might have claimed that title again.)

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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60 Focus - totally unnecessary. Amplified Wave is good (AndreaColombo's math skill not so much by the way: 35 to 60 is +25, not +15.  devil.gif ).

But it's not worth 60 points of focus. Oversteering seems to be a problem with the balance patches at Obsidian. And now some powers have different costs than the others of the same level? Why? It would have been ok to shorten the duration of the prone effect, the huge, huge area of effect or even the hefty damage (same with the other powers). But why on earth would you choose to alter the costs? Ah - I know - the ruleset isn't complicated enough - forgot that, my bad... 

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Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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60 Focus - totally unnecessary. Amplified Wave is good (AndreaColombo's math skill not so much by the way: 35 to 60 is +25, not +15.  devil.gif ).

 

Nothing new under the sun, then :p

 

But according to the patch notes:

 

 

Ciphers have been rebalanced so that their powers cost 10 focus per level. E.G. 10 focus for 1st level power, 50 focus for 5th level power.

 

 

So all powers of the same level should always have the same cost. Whether that cost is fair or excessive is, of course, debatable (with immunities in place, I wouldn't waste 60 Focus on an Amplified Wave, for example.)

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"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus

 

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Oh man - it's even worse then.  :banghead:

And cipher is not even my favourite class - nor is it the most powerful. Why the nerf?*

 

Did they buff some powers in return? Because: 70 focus for this stupid self haste is way too much. I won't even talk about that completely useless statis thing.

 

60 focus for a singe target spell that eventually destroys the loot. I don't get it.

 

I think I will download the patch today evening, ahve a look and then start a rant for three or four hours. I will fill the forum with such abysmal hate that they have to withdraw that stupid nerf.  :fdevil:

 

 

edit: *if it would be my favourite class then a nerf would be ok of course... no, wait, what?

Edited by Boeroer
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Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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