Turkey shoots down russian jet

[Darkpriest]

I laughed, some people actually think that Putin is some immortal being :D

 

Edited December 16, 2015 by Darkpriest

[Malcador]

One day, he and Keanu will meet for the Prize.

[Darkpriest]

Nice Turkey, so such a nice NATO country... why do we have them in NATO again? http://news.yahoo.com/70-killed-major-anti-pkk-operation-south-east-134941062.html

[Zoraptor]

Because Bosporus and it's unthinkable for anyone to leave NATO unless you're France and have air quotes around 'leave', let alone be chucked out.

 

Russians opened their Su24 black box couple of days ago, it was pretty munted though it should be readable with a electron microscope if they really want to embarrass Turkey and are sure of what it will show.

 

And the basis for a peace agreement has been decided at the UN. With minimal contribution from the actual warring parties and none at all from some of the largest ones, which makes it all a bit of a joke.

[Darkpriest]

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/12/19/middleeast/syria-russia-violence/index.html

[Meshugger]

Sooo, this Hersch guy posted this: https://twitter.com/LRB/status/678532062203133952

 

TL;DR-version: 

 

>In a nearly 7,000-word piece in the London Review of Books, Hersh says that the Joint Chiefs of Staff, America's top military leaders, decided to deliberately subvert American foreign policy and form a secret alliance with Assad and Russian President Vladimir Putin.

 

>As his source, Hersh cites one anonymous "former senior adviser" to the Joint Chiefs.

 

>In summer 2013, the Joint Chiefs discovered that Turkey had "co-opted" the CIA's program to arm so-called "moderate" Syrian rebels. Ankara decided to redirect US aid to extremists, including Daesh and al-Qaeda affiliate Nusra Front, Hersh writes.

 

>The Joint Chiefs also discovered that viable moderate Syrian rebels did not exist and that the opposition consisted nearly uniformly of extremists.

 

>So, in the fall of 2013, the Joint Chiefs decided to start secretly "providing US intelligence to the militaries of other nations, on the understanding that it would be passed on to the Syrian army," Hersh writes. They sent US intelligence to Germany, Russia, and Israel, which sent it to Assad.

 

>In summer 2013, the Joint Chiefs tricked the CIA into shipping obsolete weapons to Syrian rebels, Hersh writes. The journalist says this was intended as a show of good faith to Assad, to convince him to accept their offer.

 

>The secret Joint Chiefs alliance with Putin and Assad, Hersh writes, ended this September when its chief architect, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Martin Dempsey, retired.

 

This reads better than the plot to Alpha Protocol 

[Wrath of Dagon]

I don't think anyone believes Hersh any more. His stock in trade are those kind of conspiracy theories.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Wrath of Dagon

[Meshugger]

I know that it is too intruiging to be true, but it is a fun read.

[Darkpriest]

Apparently Russians can escalate their air strikes even further and increase intensity for a long period of time... Seems Turkmen are on the receiving end

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ve-never-bombed-russias-military-160628287.html

[Zoraptor]

I know that it is too intruiging to be true, but it is a fun read.

 

It would explain the clusterasterisk that was the DoD run moderate rebel recruitment program though, if they were deliberately sandbagging the effort. There's been a massive disparity between the DoD efforts and the CIA ones when it comes to Syria.

[Meshugger]

 

I know that it is too intruiging to be true, but it is a fun read.

 

It would explain the clusterasterisk that was the DoD run moderate rebel recruitment program though, if they were deliberately sandbagging the effort. There's been a massive disparity between the DoD efforts and the CIA ones when it comes to Syria.

 

 

True, but rumors say that they have been at odds with each other since Rumsfeld decided to play favourites a decade back.

[Zoraptor]

I suspect there's a schism between the two that predates Rumsfeld and that it is schism between the career military DoD and the whole civilian apparatus rather than just the CIA. I can only imagine the facepalming that went on amongst actual generals who understood what firing a quarter of a million+ trained soldiers would do when that moron Bremmer disbanded the Iraqi Army, for example, and the costs of that decision were not borne by Bremmer/ Rumsfeld/ Bush/ Cheney/ Blair but by the army. And people in the region as well, but certainly not be those who made the decision, indeed they've done everything they can to duck even the mere responsibility.

[Darkpriest]

I am no expert on military things, but this seems to be a fairly interesting read:

 

http://breakingenergy.com/2015/12/23/the-turkish-russian-military-balance/

[Zoraptor]

Zahran Alloush, head of Jaish al Islam killed in an airstrike (while everyone is saying it was Russian it may well have been one of the few Syrian precision strikes). Probably the number two/ three Islamist leader in Syria behind Jolani (Nusra/ Al Qaeda) and Baghdadi/ Ibrahim, JaI is a large factions with ten of thousands of troops. Very big development considering that the Ghouta pocket he ruled was already under more pressure than any time since its inception and he was Saudi's main proxy. He was also decidedly and unreservedly sectarian calling for the 'cleansing' of minorities, not something that you'll find on most media sites who seem to be trying hard to market him as a 'moderate' and anti ISIS hero, when even a cursory glance at the name of his faction (Army of Islam) suggests he was a card carrying Salafi dingbat let alone his own words that confirm it.

[Darkpriest]

Some interesting read about Russian military tech. - http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/news/a40027/russia-military-tech/- I did not know they have rifles that can effectively fire underwater :D

Edited December 27, 2015 by Darkpriest

[Sarex]

Some interesting read about Russian military tech. - I did not know they have rifles that can effectively fire underwater :D

 

Wait, what about the AK-47?

 

edit: omg, did Lethal Weapon 4 lie to me?!?

Edited December 27, 2015 by Sarex

[Darkpriest]

 

Some interesting read about Russian military tech. - I did not know they have rifles that can effectively fire underwater :D

 

Wait, what about the AK-47?

 

edit: omg, did Lethal Weapon 4 lie to me?!?

 

 

apparently, but these are real:

 

http://www.wired.com/2007/06/shooting_throug/

[Darkpriest]

Heh it seems Iraqi are pushing:

 

http://news.yahoo.com/iraqi-army-prepares-final-push-ramadi-islamic-state-101032461.html

 

in the meanwhile it seems Turkey does not want its ISIS ties to be investigated:

 

http://news.yahoo.com/syria-anti-documentary-maker-assassinated-turkey-183829324.html

[Darkpriest]

Nice Turkey, not helping ISIS? really? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/khairuldeen-al-makhzoomi/the-cost-of-turkeys-self-interest_b_8615668.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

 

http://www.mintpressnews.com/killed-isis-commanders-cell-phone-shows-direct-ties-to-turkish-intelligence/212317/

Edited December 28, 2015 by Darkpriest

[Mamoulian War]

Nice Turkey, not helping ISIS? really? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/khairuldeen-al-makhzoomi/the-cost-of-turkeys-self-interest_b_8615668.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

 

http://www.mintpressnews.com/killed-isis-commanders-cell-phone-shows-direct-ties-to-turkish-intelligence/212317/

Clicking at one of the links in your second article I've found something very interesting to read about Canada...

 

http://thefifthcolumnnews.com/2015/03/canadian-intelligence-caught-clandestinely-backing-islamic-state/

Edited December 30, 2015 by Mamoulian War

[BruceVC]

 

Nice Turkey, not helping ISIS? really? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/khairuldeen-al-makhzoomi/the-cost-of-turkeys-self-interest_b_8615668.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

 

http://www.mintpressnews.com/killed-isis-commanders-cell-phone-shows-direct-ties-to-turkish-intelligence/212317/

Clicking at one of the links in your second article I've found something very interesting to read about Canada...

 

http://thefifthcolumnnews.com/2015/03/canadian-intelligence-caught-clandestinely-backing-islamic-state/

 

What did you find interesting about it? I read the article and initially I would have just dismissed it as your typical anti-Western propaganda that Qistina believes is real but to give them some credit at the end they say the following 

 

" While all of this is certainly damning and generates the appearance that the West is actively supporting the Islamic State, there are no credible theories as to why the West would be subverting its own interests. It is possible that this was yet another example of intelligence agencies running amok without proper supervision. Given the volume of factual evidence and the continued stream of anecdotal evidence, we must also consider that the West is involved in a large clandestine operation pursuing interests its citizens are unaware of" 

 

So at least they are not drawing " conclusive" evidence. But in summary this is my view of this article, one of the many people who works for Canadian intelligence actually has ideological loyalties to ISIS and is not just supplying information to the West about ISIS he is actually helping ISIS

 

Yes this will occur, ISIS has its sympathizers in every country and some of them I imagine would work for Western governments or at least infiltrate the ones who have operational bases in the ME

 

This DOES not mean the Canadian government is funding ISIS

[Darkpriest]

US report on Russian Navy evolution http://finance.yahoo.com/news/us-navy-just-issued-eerie-152452364.html

Edited December 30, 2015 by Darkpriest

[Rostere]

ISIS is not a threat to anyone except for its immediate neighbours. If we keep this in mind, then it would make absolute sense for anyone who wants to lower the threshold for casus belli in the ME to support ISIS. The more atrocities we see, the more positively Western audiences will react towards any sort of conflict with any Muslim organization or nation. Anyone who supports ISIS and thinks that they can actually achieve anything is either retarded (or religious) or is intentionally setting up a sort of Islamist aquarium for the rest of the world to study with revulsion.

 

That's absolutely not at all the same thing as saying that somebody actually did this. But if you don't believe that this type of reasoning is known in politics, read the PNAC paper "Rebuilding America's Defenses" from 2000 - a long text about how to increase American defense spending and make wars abroad which at one point states that well, all of this is of course impossible to achieve "absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor".

 

We might never know if the burning of the Reichstag was really a genuine Communist plot, the deed of a lone madman or done at the urging and with the aid of Nazi agents posing as Communists. Or if the extreme laxity with which the Bush regime treated reports of Al Qaeda planning 9/11 was intentional, subconscious or just the way things were back then. But the important thing to remember is to keep your head cool at such occasions. We do know that Hitler gleefully took this opportunity to make the German people sign away all their freedom, just as GWB conveniently started invading countries with no relation to 9/11. The common theme is that the public can be whipped into hysteria over threats that the rulers can then use to justify their schemes which would otherwise be impossible to sell. The democratic rise of Nazism and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan both seem absurd in hindsight, we need to keep the same cool-headedness now in anticipation of whatever wars and oppression will be marketed next. People say that Trump is a recruiting ad for ISIS, I'd say that is far more accurate to say that ISIS is a recruiting ad for Trump, or Stephen Harper (whose neocon allegiances would make even GWB blush), or similar.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Well, we know who he wants to be when he grows up: http://www.reuters.com/article/turkey-erdogan-hitler-idUKKBN0UF1T320160101

But he's a "moderate" Islamist!

[Rostere]

Turkey - specifically Erdogan - has taken has steep dive towards **** in the last few years or so. I didn't think this of Turkey in 2011, but please NATO, kick Turkey out ASAP. EU should end all economic cooperation as well and support a Kurdish state. Then Putin can feel free to handle Erdogan any way he wishes to.

 

In related news Obama commented on world leaders in a comedic show with Jerry Seinfeld. Specifically, he mentions certain leaders who have held positions of power for a very long time. Not hard to connect that to Erdogan (~15 years), Putin (~8+4(+4) years), Netanyahu (~3+7 years) among others.