European Refugee Crisis

[Zoraptor]

 

This guy experienced the terrors of leftism first hand and lived to tell the tale: https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarcho_Capitalism/comments/3ucp8y/i_was_beat_up_by_left_anarchists_in_greece/

 

 

 

I don't usually use forums or Reddit, I usually just post comments on Ancap blogs like Molyneux or Cantwell's blog, but they didn't seem appropriate places to post my story. So here goes, I just wanted to share this with all of you.

 

Nov 3 I flew to Europe for a Eurotrip type tour. Not a guide or packaged deal, just going around by myself. I paid for half of the trip with the wages I earned over the last two years, my dad paid for the other half. I am 19, I guess that is normal starting college and all. (Before that I worked for my dad's company part time, so I guess you could say he paid for all of it, lol).

 

I did France and then Italy and then Greece next. I am an Ancap so I wanted to see anarchists in these places. Yes, I know they are different kinds of "anarchists" and not really full anarchists like us. I went to an anarchist book store in Italy and it had a lot of English books, but no Rothbard or Ancap. Like I said, I expected that, not a surprise.

 

I went to Greece, which everyone knows is famous for its revolutionary anarchism, its economic crisis and everything going on right now. Here I found directions for a local anarchist center. I went and didn't see anybody, but it was covered in graffiti, mostly in Greek so I couldn't read it. Whatever, I started taking pictures. Then some people came out and confronted me.

 

This should have been my first warning sign something was not right, because photography is not a crime. They were not violent, but they were not friendly, like asking who I was, what I wanted. They all spoke good English actually. Not uncommon in Greece. I said I was a tourist and an anarchist and I just wanted to take pictures. Then they got friendly and told me I should have asked first (but pictures are no NAP violation so I don't know why, but I didn't say anything) and they invited me inside.

 

We hung out for a while and smoked hash (there is no good dank in Europe as you might find out like in Cali, everyone smokes hash with tobacco which isn't as cool as it sounds). We started talking about politics and anarchism. I was trying to talk about the state, they were like yeah no doubt the state was bad. But they wanted to talk about capitalism, capitalism this and that. This is when we started to get into a debate.

 

I told them that what they called capitalism is different from the free market. They said capitalism is free markets. And I said I agreed. That is what I am saying. Real capitalism is free markets. And they said yes, that is what we are trying to get rid of. And I said no, but we don't even have that right now. We need more free markets. And everyone at the same time was like "nooo" we are anarchists, we are against capitalism. Anarchists oppose capitalism.

 

And I said but not anarcho-capitalists. Anarcho-capitalists are the anarchists who support capitalism. I had a fanny pack (yeah, lame I know) for my camera and in that I had this yellow and black bowtie (also super lame, it was a joke but I wasnt wearing it). And I said look, these are the Ancap colors, yellow and black, like versus the communist red and black. Well, these guys had a lot of red and black in the building already so I thought they would get it.

 

I think that is when it started to get a really bad vibe, really tense in the air. The free market thing was funny, we disagreed but I think they thought I was just confused. Everyone was uncomfortable now. Then someone said markets wont work with democracy. And I said exactly, that's it, democracy is against anarchism. And they kind of agreed, and said yes, we don't have real democracy, just governments, and we needed more democracy. I said no, we need less democracy, democracy is the enemy. And we need to end democracy to have anarchy. Then they were all like "noooo" again. You know that thing people do in groups when everyone all says "nooo" or expresses some disapproval at the same time.

 

And one of them said "but we do want to stop democracy" and then they kind of spoke back and forth in Greek. I didn't really understand it. And they asked me what I meant.

 

So I said okay, I had the floor, I was going to tell them about ancapism. And I tried to explain to them some Rothbard and Hoppe. I said the natural order in anarchy is that the best rise to the top, the market picks who is the best. They compete and are peaceful. They said what do we want instead of anarchy. I said we want private owners to own their own land and businesses, and to employ people. They said that is what we have now. I said no, it would be even better. One of the guys said it was like feudalism. And I said it is not feudalism.

 

Eventually one of the guys spoke up and I thought he was Greek, but he spoke English perfectly so he may have not been. He said he knew what anarcho-capitalism was and that we were basically fascists. He asked me if I thought everything should be private. And I said yes. And he asked me if I thought people were unequal. And I told him yes. And that not everyone would have equal rights. I said everyone has the right to own property and not be done aggression against. But that not everyone had to be treated equally by the owners. He said what about immigrants and racism. And I said that would not happen in a free market, but yes property owners could be racist if they wanted to. They had to respect property.

 

Then he called me a fascist again, and someone else said I was a fascist. And then they basically all started shouting fascist at me, and one of them grabbed me by the wrists. They pulled me out the door, it was up three floors, and basically drug me down the stairs on my back. It hurt really bad and I remember yelling "you're breaking the NAP" and things like that. "Stop initiating force against me." Then they kicked me around on the ground in the hallway, before they took my camera and threw me outside. I was crying and stuff, I just sat there. I was in shock because it was so sudden. Looking back there were warning signs though.

 

I think they felt bad for me and gave the camera back, but when I looked later they stole the memory card with all of my Greek photos.

 

So they initiated force and theft. They broke the NAP. I knew the left anarchists were not real anarchists, but I never knew they would do something that bad.

 

I wasnt seriously hurt, just kicked around a little, lots of bruises and little cuts. I am fine guys so don't worry. Just needed to share.

I bet he knows how to fix Europe.

 

God ancaps are embarrassing.

 

Not that ancaps aren't embarrassing, but I'm as prone to believe that actually happened as I would be to believe a story from Bruce about him getting beaten up by SJWs when he goes to one of their meetings and tells them he's an old money banker who loves Saudi Arabia. Story is too cliche and nobody is that dumb.

[BruceVC]

Only some men will find work while their women will be sitting home and breeding kids, to get social benefits. The men in vast majority of cases will be working some minimum wage jobs, which will not pay off the cost of sustaning a whole familiy by the state.

 

The economy simply does not have room for extra 300-500k jobs out of thin air.

I agree, the EU from an economic perspective will be under immense strain if the objective of the refugees is to live off social benefits and yes the actual issue around job creation is also valid. 

 

But where is the evidence that suggests these refugees think of a future in the EU  where there children will be able to live off social grants? I am not trying to catch you out but this is a fundamental point and does directly impact the broader question of   "can the EU absorb millions of immigrants "   

[Darkpriest]

And how are the most doing now from the previous immigrant runs?

 

Why do you think they want to go to walefare heavy countries?

[BruceVC]

And how are the most doing now from the previous immigrant runs?

 

Why do you think they want to go to walefare heavy countries?

Well I think the vast  majority of refugees really believe that the West offers a real and better quality of life than the countries they come from...and this is to be expected 

 

They want security and want to live in a country where they can work and achieve economic prosperity for themselves and there families

 

I find it hard to believe they want to immigrate to the EU so they can live in an  idealistic welfare state...yes some may see it like this but I doubt the majority do. The vast majority want to contribute and do there fair share to help grow the economies of there adopted countries 

 

But if you right and objective is to just live off social grants then yes the refugees and the EU, but more the refugees, are in for some harsh reality checks in the future 

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

Elaborate please. 

 

 

As far as I know, climatologists are fairly confident we've passed the point of no return and are looking forward to a mass extinction event in a few generations.

 

You won't really have to worry about the living environment of your children and grandchildren, because chances are, they're going to die for reasons completely unrelated to various forms of violence and injustice done by their fellow men.

 

 

Our society rose up on the idea that "no type of work dishonors a person doing it".

 

 

Ahhahahahahahaha.

[BruceVC]

 

 

Elaborate please. 

 

 

As far as I know, climatologists are fairly confident we've passed the point of no return and are looking forward to a mass extinction event in a few generations.

 

You won't really have to worry about the living environment of your children and grandchildren, because chances are, they're going to die for reasons completely unrelated to various forms of violence and injustice done by their fellow men.

 

 

 

Oh alum....you are funny...is this your attempt to cheer our jaded European friends  up about the future  

[Barothmuk]

As far as I know, climatologists are fairly confident we've passed the point of no return and are looking forward to a mass extinction event in a few generations.

Sadly it won't be as dramatic or egalitarian as it sounds.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

As far as I know, climatologists are fairly confident we've passed the point of no return and are looking forward to a mass extinction event in a few generations.

 

Sadly it won't be as dramatic or egalitarian as it sounds.

 

 

Indeed it won't. Then again, I never claimed it will be 

[Chilloutman]

Syrian refugees are confused, UK looks like Pakistan xD

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06ptym0

 

This is priceless

[Meshugger]

 

 

Elaborate please. 

 

 

As far as I know, climatologists are fairly confident we've passed the point of no return and are looking forward to a mass extinction event in a few generations.

 

You won't really have to worry about the living environment of your children and grandchildren, because chances are, they're going to die for reasons completely unrelated to various forms of violence and injustice done by their fellow men.

 

 

So it's basic survival because global cataclysmic events? Alrighty then, i do hope that you don't mind if people already start to make precautions for the inevitable and looking at their own first, which will also end with war....but for different reasons.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

So it's basic survival because global cataclysmic events? Alrighty then, i do hope that you don't mind if people already start to make precautions for the inevitable and looking at their own first

 

 

I wouldn't mind if it wasn't so wasteful and stupid.

 

You're dead anyway, why are you so intent on making other people's lives worse before the inevitable happens?

[Barothmuk]

So it's basic survival because global cataclysmic events? Alrighty then, i do hope that you don't mind if people already start to make precautions for the inevitable and looking at their own first.

Your first mistake was aligning with those responsible. Your second was thinking they'd care about you.

[Meshugger]

 

 

So it's basic survival because global cataclysmic events? Alrighty then, i do hope that you don't mind if people already start to make precautions for the inevitable and looking at their own first

 

 

I wouldn't mind if it wasn't so wasteful and stupid.

 

You're dead anyway, why are you so intent on making other people's lives worse before the inevitable happens?

 

 

Are you implying the current situation is the best thing for mankind? oh dear, oh dear.

 

When it comes to basic survival, then how it would be worse to not stack the odds to your own favour and for your future generations? Mind you, it was you who claimed that **** will hit the fan anyway, no matter what we do. Otherwise you might as well start by killing yourself since nothing matters anyway, trololo0000l.

[Meshugger]

 

So it's basic survival because global cataclysmic events? Alrighty then, i do hope that you don't mind if people already start to make precautions for the inevitable and looking at their own first.

Your first mistake was aligning with those responsible. Your second was thinking they'd care about you.

 

 

Why should someone listen to those responsible? they are not even part of the equation.

[Barothmuk]

You're dead anyway, why are you so intent on making other people's lives worse before the inevitable happens?

Best not to treat it as an inevitability. Assuming we're referring to stuff like this

 

A new study partly-sponsored by Nasa's Goddard Space Flight Center has highlighted the prospect that global industrial civilisation could collapse in coming decades due to unsustainable resource exploitation and increasingly unequal wealth distribution.

 

...

 

However, the scientists point out that the worst-case scenarios are by no means inevitable, and suggest that appropriate policy and structural changes could avoid collapse, if not pave the way toward a more stable civilisation.

 

The two key solutions are to reduce economic inequality so as to ensure fairer distribution of resources, and to dramatically reduce resource consumption by relying on less intensive renewable resources and reducing population growth

Way things are going this sadly won't happen.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

 

So it's basic survival because global cataclysmic events? Alrighty then, i do hope that you don't mind if people already start to make precautions for the inevitable and looking at their own first

 

 

I wouldn't mind if it wasn't so wasteful and stupid.

 

You're dead anyway, why are you so intent on making other people's lives worse before the inevitable happens?

 

 

Are you implying the current situation is the best thing for mankind? oh dear, oh dear.

 

 

You're not making much sense here, I'm afraid. What do you mean by "current situation" and "best thing for mankind"?

 

 

 

When it comes to basic survival, then how it would be worse to not stack the odds to your own favour and for your future generations? 

 

 

I'm not sure why I should be interested in my future generations, but let's assume I am.

 

Do you think you, alone, can meaningfully impact the survival chances of your offspring in an event that wipes out most of humanity? I knew you were essentially statistically illiterate, but this is just delusional.

 

 

 

Otherwise you might as well start by killing yourself since nothing matters anyway, trololo0000l.

 

 

The inevitable collapse of the global ecosystem won't happen in my lifetime, but indeed, I'm not planning on having any kids.

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

 

So it's basic survival because global cataclysmic events? Alrighty then, i do hope that you don't mind if people already start to make precautions for the inevitable and looking at their own first

 

 

I wouldn't mind if it wasn't so wasteful and stupid.

 

You're dead anyway, why are you so intent on making other people's lives worse before the inevitable happens?

 

 

Are you implying the current situation is the best thing for mankind? oh dear, oh dear.

 

 

You're not making much sense here, I'm afraid. What do you mean by "current situation" and "best thing for mankind"?

 

 

 

When it comes to basic survival, then how it would be worse to not stack the odds to your own favour and for your future generations? 

 

 

I'm not sure why I should be interested in my future generations, but let's assume I am.

 

Do you think you, alone, can meaningfully impact the survival chances of your offspring in an event that wipes out most of humanity? I knew you were essentially statistically illiterate, but this is just delusional.

 

 

 

Otherwise you might as well start by killing yourself since nothing matters anyway, trololo0000l.

 

 

The inevitable collapse of the global ecosystem won't happen in my lifetime, but indeed, I'm not planning on having any kids.

 

 

Oh dear, oh dear. Such nihilism, i pity you. I leave you be in your darkness.

[Chilloutman]

Edited November 30, 2015 by Chilloutman

[Barothmuk]

Why should someone listen to those responsible? they are not even part of the equation.

I'm assuming you're wanting to bend over for some nationalist group, yes?

[Darkpriest]

Well technically if you could save 10-15 young couples they could genetically sustain a small populace of people for 2-3 generations forward. It would not be pretty as women would be basically breeding mothers to cover for the return to the cavemen status and lack of medical support. After 100years in isolation they wpuld probable need to look for some other genepool to enhance the group or they would be able to expand populace but that would take careful planning and super arranged "marriages".

[aluminiumtrioxid]

Well technically if you could save 10-15 young couples they could genetically sustain a small populace of people for 2-3 generations forward. It would not be pretty as women would be basically breeding mothers to cover for the return to the cavemen status and lack of medical support. After 100years in isolation they wpuld probable need to look for some other genepool to enhance the group or they would be able to expand populace but that would take careful planning and super arranged "marriages".

 

I don't believe humanity will go extinct. I don't even believe technologically advanced civilization itself will cease to exist. But the huge majority is going to die, and it's delusional to think you can ensure the survival of specific people unless you're a billionaire.

[Meshugger]

 

Why should someone listen to those responsible? they are not even part of the equation.

I'm assuming you're wanting to bend over for some nationalist group, yes?

 

 

I'm not interested in nationalist movements that are bound by modernist philosophies.

 

//Edit: point being, people gravitate normally to those with the same values and cooperate accordingly, and those values are usually from within the same culture, which in turn usually are from the same people. Trying add nationalism as an ideal first and try fit on who should be included is to start from the wrong end.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Meshugger

[Barothmuk]

I'm not interested in nationalist movements that are bound by modernist philosophies.

Nationalism is modern.

 

point being, people gravitate normally to those with the same values and cooperate accordingly, and those values are usually from within the same culture, which in turn usually are from the same people.

What people, culture and values are you referring to? Do the people in your country/state have uniform culture and values?

 

And how on earth is organising around this an effective means of combating unsustainable resource exploitation?

Edited November 30, 2015 by Barothmuk

[Meshugger]

 

I'm not interested in nationalist movements that are bound by modernist philosophies.

Nationalism is modern.

 

point being, people gravitate normally to those with the same values and cooperate accordingly, and those values are usually from within the same culture, which in turn usually are from the same people.

What people, culture and values are you referring to? Do the people in your country/state have uniform culture and values?

 

And how on earth is organising around this an effective means of combating unsustainable resource exploitation?

 

 

Yup, we have the same values, religion and social cues. For example, being unable to queue and cut in line makes a you social outcast who will be ostrasized by everyone. 

 

As for resources, i suggest to heavily invest in owning your own guns, self-sustainability and energy independence.

 

Globalism however, is the accelerant to a certain doom as it centralizes political and financial power in the hands of the few and thus is the most vulnarable to big changes. Smaller, homongeneous, self-ruled, self-sustainable societies will survive in the long run. There's also the modernist component of valuing only the material as its own religion, which leaves people living empty, purposeless lives, easily corrupted by extremist ideologies who promises them a destiny they feel robbed of. 

[Drowsy Emperor]

Well, this refugee crisis has taken us places.