All the Literature and Reading Stuff...

[algroth]

Ben & Algroth,

Sorry Gents, but you are wrong. The knights and soldiers might have been fighting for God but the Pope's, kings, and sovereigns who sent them were all about money. And without that none of them would have been there. The Byzantines lost Jerusalem somewhere around the middle 600's AD. For four hundred years after that it was under several different caliphates, Sunni Muslim every one, and nobody gave a damn because pilgrimages and trade with India and Persia still flowed. Then in 1068 the Seljuks closed the land to Christians and cut off the silk roads to the East and the Kingdoms of Europe started to take notice. So take that, the fact the Pope Urban II (who had so little power he could not even enter Rome) needed an "issue" and the opportunity to reunite the Church of Rome and the Greek Orthodox and the Sovereigns of Europe wanting trade resumed and you have the recipe for the First Crusade. Had the Seljuks kept the status quo none of it would have happened.

I agree that it was motivated largely by the sovereigns' greed. It all falls down to power and money stands as a currency for such. Nevertheless the religious motivation proved successful for the larger mass of the army, and what I was pointing out to Ben was that had religion not been such a powerful ideological force back in those times, and had it been something else like, say, a political movement, patriotism, or even science, these would have provided the new necessity by which to justify the Crusades.

[Guard Dog]

 

Ben & Algroth,

Sorry Gents, but you are wrong. The knights and soldiers might have been fighting for God but the Pope's, kings, and sovereigns who sent them were all about money. And without that none of them would have been there. The Byzantines lost Jerusalem somewhere around the middle 600's AD. For four hundred years after that it was under several different caliphates, Sunni Muslim every one, and nobody gave a damn because pilgrimages and trade with India and Persia still flowed. Then in 1068 the Seljuks closed the land to Christians and cut off the silk roads to the East and the Kingdoms of Europe started to take notice. So take that, the fact the Pope Urban II (who had so little power he could not even enter Rome) needed an "issue" and the opportunity to reunite the Church of Rome and the Greek Orthodox and the Sovereigns of Europe wanting trade resumed and you have the recipe for the First Crusade. Had the Seljuks kept the status quo none of it would have happened.

I agree that it was motivated largely by the sovereigns' greed. It all falls down to power and money stands as a currency for such. Nevertheless the religious motivation proved successful for the larger mass of the army, and what I was pointing out to Ben was that had religion not been such a powerful ideological force back in those times, and had it been something else like, say, a political movement, patriotism, or even science, these would have provided the new necessity by which to justify the Crusades.

 

Yep. I'll go along with that. If humans are not killing each other because Deus Vult, then it will be over some other reason.

[Raithe]

For those who might find it interesting...

 

The Guardian - Neil Gaiman Interview

[Guard Dog]

I am beginning to see the politics, particularly leftist politics is a cancer that invades and kills healthy cultures. Case in point: https://www.bustle.com/p/9-overrated-classic-novels-which-books-to-read-instead-37472

 

Notice she didn't say read these titles in addition to the classics she compared them to, but instead of. And why? Because according to modern leftest political mores  the old works are written by white people and reflect the eras in which they were written. I'm getting images in my head of angry college liberals goose stepping in formation past piles of burning books. They say history repeats itself. I suppose that is a near certainty when you decide to not read it or works from it because it does not the suit the politics of the day.

[Azdeus]

I am beginning to see the politics, particularly leftist politics is a cancer that invades and kills healthy cultures. Case in point: https://www.bustle.com/p/9-overrated-classic-novels-which-books-to-read-instead-37472

 

Notice she didn't say read these titles in addition to the classics she compared them to, but instead of. And why? Because according to modern leftest political mores  the old works are written by white people and reflect the eras in which they were written. I'm getting images in my head of angry college liberals goose stepping in formation past piles of burning books. They say history repeats itself. I suppose that is a near certainty when you decide to not read it or works from it because it does not the suit the politics of the day.

 

"This list is not to stop you from reading these classics." Jus' saying.

[ShadySands]

I am beginning to see the politics, particularly leftist politics is a cancer that invades and kills healthy cultures. Case in point: https://www.bustle.com/p/9-overrated-classic-novels-which-books-to-read-instead-37472

 

Notice she didn't say read these titles in addition to the classics she compared them to, but instead of. And why? Because according to modern leftest political mores  the old works are written by white people and reflect the eras in which they were written. I'm getting images in my head of angry college liberals goose stepping in formation past piles of burning books. They say history repeats itself. I suppose that is a near certainty when you decide to not read it or works from it because it does not the suit the politics of the day.

I think you're reading too much into it

 

There are always crazies, I mean, the author of that article writes romance novels and young adult fantasy

[Guard Dog]

 

I am beginning to see the politics, particularly leftist politics is a cancer that invades and kills healthy cultures. Case in point: https://www.bustle.com/p/9-overrated-classic-novels-which-books-to-read-instead-37472

 

Notice she didn't say read these titles in addition to the classics she compared them to, but instead of. And why? Because according to modern leftest political mores  the old works are written by white people and reflect the eras in which they were written. I'm getting images in my head of angry college liberals goose stepping in formation past piles of burning books. They say history repeats itself. I suppose that is a near certainty when you decide to not read it or works from it because it does not the suit the politics of the day.

I think you're reading too much into it

 

There are always crazies, I mean, the author of that article writes romance novels and young adult fantasy

 

Perhaps I am. But when someone looks down their nose and tells people "don't read this book" especially over such a specious and anti-intellectual  concept as political correctness it puts my back up.

[Malcador]

I think you're reading too much into it

 

That's just what the crypto Stalinists want you to say.

[Blarghagh]

 

 

I am beginning to see the politics, particularly leftist politics is a cancer that invades and kills healthy cultures. Case in point: https://www.bustle.com/p/9-overrated-classic-novels-which-books-to-read-instead-37472

 

Notice she didn't say read these titles in addition to the classics she compared them to, but instead of. And why? Because according to modern leftest political mores  the old works are written by white people and reflect the eras in which they were written. I'm getting images in my head of angry college liberals goose stepping in formation past piles of burning books. They say history repeats itself. I suppose that is a near certainty when you decide to not read it or works from it because it does not the suit the politics of the day.

I think you're reading too much into it

 

There are always crazies, I mean, the author of that article writes romance novels and young adult fantasy

 

Perhaps I am. But when someone looks down their nose and tells people "don't read this book" especially over such a specious and anti-intellectual  concept as political correctness it puts my back up.

 

 

I dunno, that's not what I read. It sounded to me like an op-ed piece. I mean, she's not saying "remove these perfectly fine books to fill a quota of diversity", she's saying "I hate these **** books, I like these books better and they get bonus points in my book for diversity". She's a bit preachy about it, but it's pretty much just opinion. I mean, I guess having an opinion and expressing it is political? But calling something this simple "the leftist cancer that destroys culture" is a bit harsh?

 

Plus, you know, of the ones I read the ones she mentioned are pretty **** I think.

[Guard Dog]

 

 

 

I am beginning to see the politics, particularly leftist politics is a cancer that invades and kills healthy cultures. Case in point: https://www.bustle.com/p/9-overrated-classic-novels-which-books-to-read-instead-37472

 

Notice she didn't say read these titles in addition to the classics she compared them to, but instead of. And why? Because according to modern leftest political mores  the old works are written by white people and reflect the eras in which they were written. I'm getting images in my head of angry college liberals goose stepping in formation past piles of burning books. They say history repeats itself. I suppose that is a near certainty when you decide to not read it or works from it because it does not the suit the politics of the day.

I think you're reading too much into it

 

There are always crazies, I mean, the author of that article writes romance novels and young adult fantasy

 

Perhaps I am. But when someone looks down their nose and tells people "don't read this book" especially over such a specious and anti-intellectual  concept as political correctness it puts my back up.

 

 

I dunno, that's not what I read. It sounded to me like an op-ed piece. I mean, she's not saying "remove these perfectly fine books to fill a quota of diversity", she's saying "I hate these **** books, I like these books better and they get bonus points in my book for diversity". She's a bit preachy about it, but it's pretty much just opinion. I mean, I guess having an opinion and expressing it is political? But calling something this simple "the leftist cancer that destroys culture" is a bit harsh?

 

Plus, you know, of the ones I read the ones she mentioned are pretty **** I think.

 

Hey hyperbole and internet forums go together like peanut butter and jelly! Yeah, it was a tad melodramatic on my part. I remember a few years ago a big row here in my home state over a push to remove books from school libraries. One of those was Uncle Tom's Cabin (which she mentioned). The reason was IIRC the way the story stereotyped the slave characters. See? It's not enough just to criticize the writing, they have to take steps to keep people from even reading it. As for the generalizations being unfair to the black characters, that book did as much to win the Civil War as half the Union Generals did. It was published 10 years or so before Lincoln was elected and it made the abolitionists cause mainstream in the north. There are few instances where a work of fiction changes the opinions of society but this was on of them. The idea of removing it from a library, banning it even in a soft way, because it was a product of the time it was written in just shocks me. The words banned and books should never be used in the same sentence. No source of learning, information, or even entertainment should ever be withheld from anyone.

 

Now I know that isn't exactly what she was doing here. But she came close enough to flirt with the concept by saying "don't read this, read that instead". Like I said, that puts my back up every time.

[Raithe]

Hm, and Neil Gaiman has announced he's working on a sequel to Neverwhere titled "The Seven Sisters"

[Wrath of Dagon]

A fantastic poem: https://americanliterature.com/author/rudyard-kipling/poem/the-last-suttee You have to read the explanation on top for it to make any sense though (scroll at the bottom).

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

Notice she didn't say read these titles in addition to the classics she compared them to, but instead of.

 

"This list is not to stop you from reading these classics." 

 

 

"Daddy what does 'opportunity cost' mean?"

[Guard Dog]

Now reading House to House by David Bellavia. It's a memoir of building by building fighting in Fallujah in 2004. I remember going through urban combat training when I was in the service. We called in MOUT training. I remember thinking how difficult and terrifying it would be to do it for real. From this first hand account, it is.

 

Also reading Longitude: The True Story of a Lone Genius Who Solved the Greatest Scientific Problem of His Time ​by Dava Sobel. It's the story of John Harrison and the invention of the first Marine Chronometer which finally allowed ships at sea to fix longitude. It's actually amazing that nearly 300 years of global maritime travel took place with no certain fix of a ships east-west position. I actually started this one a long time ago and never finished it.

Edited February 22, 2017 by Guard Dog

[Malcador]

Finished off Master of Mankind. Thankfully doesn't go into the Emperor's perspective and just lets you see how the Custodes or Techpriests see him. Kind of a downer to see him give up and say Chaos wins or subtly suggest Abbadon is greater than Horus - but have to consider the author.

[Heijoushin]

Just finished Three Parts Dead (Craft Sequence #1). Actually, I picked it up it because it was mentioned on one of the PoE podcasts. It's basically about multi-class wizard/lawyers called craftsmen (and women). Sounds interesting, right? But actually, it kind of dragged. Nice concept, lousy execution.

 

*sigh* What to read next...

[the_dog_days]

I went on a Dresden Files binge last year. Previously I'd only read the first few books. Finished Small Favor last night and started Turn Coat this morning. Not that I don't like the series anymore, but the books have become kinda same-y. I feel like I'm reading them less to find out what happens and more so as comfort food. (Not that I have any intention of stopping now.)

[Heijoushin]

I went on a Dresden Files binge last year. Previously I'd only read the first few books. Finished Small Favor last night and started Turn Coat this morning. Not that I don't like the series anymore, but the books have become kinda same-y. I feel like I'm reading them less to find out what happens and more so as comfort food. (Not that I have any intention of stopping now.)

 

Ah, the Dresden files. Pretty fun, and well written. But I seem to recall that he gets roughed up to within an inch of his life in every book. Its one of those where you have to ask: How much damage can one man take before he takes a break

[the_dog_days]

 

I went on a Dresden Files binge last year. Previously I'd only read the first few books. Finished Small Favor last night and started Turn Coat this morning. Not that I don't like the series anymore, but the books have become kinda same-y. I feel like I'm reading them less to find out what happens and more so as comfort food. (Not that I have any intention of stopping now.)

 

Ah, the Dresden files. Pretty fun, and well written. But I seem to recall that he gets roughed up to within an inch of his life in every book. Its one of those where you have to ask: How much damage can one man take before he takes a break

 

 

Very true, but if you binge read (which I tend to do, which is why I almost always refuse to read series until they are done) the beatings he takes start to feel as if they are done by rote. They're not bad books, but they do follow a particular formula that becomes more apparent as you go along.

[algroth]

I am beginning to see the politics, particularly leftist politics is a cancer that invades and kills healthy cultures. Case in point: https://www.bustle.com/p/9-overrated-classic-novels-which-books-to-read-instead-37472

 

Notice she didn't say read these titles in addition to the classics she compared them to, but instead of. And why? Because according to modern leftest political mores  the old works are written by white people and reflect the eras in which they were written. I'm getting images in my head of angry college liberals goose stepping in formation past piles of burning books. They say history repeats itself. I suppose that is a near certainty when you decide to not read it or works from it because it does not the suit the politics of the day.

You act as if that article is representative of leftist views as a whole, or leftists views at all, when it is far from the truth. That's simply a rubbish article, regardless of the writer's political leanings (whose leftism is very much in question). To say "leftism invades and kills healthy cultures" is to also deny the wealth of great art made by leftists, not least in American literature.

Edited March 9, 2017 by algroth

[Raithe]

Amazon draws genre lines

 

Amazon has warned romance authors not to list their books in the science fiction, fantasy, or children's categories.

[ShadySands]

I'm for it

 

I've been trying to find a decent urban fantasy book but it's like 95% romance stuff that I have negative zero interest in

[Sarex]

I'm for it

 

I've been trying to find a decent urban fantasy book but it's like 95% romance stuff that I have negative zero interest in

 

You probably read the Dresden Files?

[Raithe]

Heh. I remember the writing couple of Ilona Andrews talking about how their urban fantasy series kept turning up in the romance section just because the protagonist was a female. There's no actual "romance" as such until about the 3rd or 4th book and even then it's pretty comparable to other non-romance urban fantasy worlds where the principle character happens to click with some other person in the ongoing meta-story. But they got so tired of it happening they just threw their hands up and sat down and wrote some specific urban fantasy romance.

 

But as was pointed out in that article, the classic science-fiction genre of 40 years ago was a serious blending of so many different genres, sometimes within the same story. It's only been in the last couple of decades that so many seemingly artificial "lines" have been drawn between one type of science fiction and one type of fantasy.

 

Still, yes, it would be nice to do a search for Vampire stories or the like and not  end up buried in cover pictures of bare male pecs and synopsis about some strong female who apparently ends up yearning for some bad boy vamp.

[the_dog_days]

Finished Changes (Dresden Files), and whoa boy. I said earlier that I Jim Butcher hadn't changed up his formula for this series, but he certainly has now. Not that I didn't like the three to four books prior, but this new 'compilation' was really needed to keep the series fresh.