Wanted to Respec my party at level 5 after not playing for awhile

[katie]

I'm level 5, and I just completed act 1. I didn't play this game for a very long time - I'm sort of a career woman and I work a ton of hours. But... I have some time to play. I noticed that my party is spec'd very badly now due to all of the patches. Is there any place that I can look at a glance on respecing advice? I don't want to spend 12 hours reading about stuff, or sifting through 1-hour long videos about each class. I realize that's important for these kind of games, but if I did that, I'd have to go back to work on Monday and I wouldn't play at all - then I'd forget everything I learned anyway by the time I got the next chance to play. So I'm more looking for a very brief guide on what skills are worth using, stats that are important, weapons that are good fits, etc. Like a cole's notes type of thing.

My main character is a Cipher. 

Edited October 4, 2015 by katie

[Nobear]

I hear you in that I haven't found/made time to play PoE almost at all, since 2.0 and the White March came out about the same time that school started back up for me . I can also vouch for the time investment that just fully keeping up with this forum alone can take. I tell myself that I shouldn't play the game as long as I've got homework and studying to do, but TBH, I think I could have finished the expansion by now if I hadn't been keeping up with the forum!

 

Do you remember what month you last played, or what patch version you had at that time? It's hard to know exactly which changes will affect you personally the most. For starters, what difficulty are you playing and what classes are in your party?

 

The biggest change overall has probably been in 2.0, changing Perception to grant accuracy instead of deflection. It's now considered essential for CC, good for DPS, and dump-able for a pure tank. However, pure tanks are also less popular than they used to be. Even paladins, for instance, now have at least some offensive capability due to the new high level Immolation ability. Some players are still going the pure tank route and dumping both Dex and Per on their paladins, whereas others are maybe dumping Dex but keeping Per at 10 or so.

 

The Perception change generally means that your own characters with above average Per have become squishier (less tanky) yet deadlier (more accurate). The compounding effect is that enemies with above average Per will be easier still to hit, while being deadlier still to you. This, along with the change from 3% to 5% health/endurance per point of Con, makes Con generally more desirable across the board, although there are still players who will dump it on ranged characters, and keep it about average on most frontliners (monks did and probably still do get the most benefit from high Con, as their abilities depend on getting hurt).

 

For a cipher, it depends if melee or ranged, but my opinion on stat priority for ranged would be something like Per>Int>Dex>Mig>Con>Res. Others have argued over many a page of posts about, say, whether Dex or Might are more important, and cases could be made for a lot of tweaks to this order of priorities, but it's no doubt that Per, Int, Dex, and Might all play a role in a cipher's CC/DPS ability, with Per and Int being especially important for CC.

 

2.0 also introduced an AI system, which you can turn on or off or adjust per character at any time. Try it out if you like, but be forewarned: a lot of players have found that many things about microing their characters, especially when it comes to tactical decisions about spells, are still better done by hand. Some players have arrived at a sweet spot where they trust the AI to manage one or more characters, but they micro the others, and even override the AI or don't let it control, say, Per Rest abilities.

 

If I make this post any longer, you might as well browse the rest of the forums. I hope that gives you a good starting point to have some weekend fun. And unless you're playing on PoTD, there's no need to sweat getting things "perfect." Oh yeah, even on PoTD, you can respec your characters at any inn now, so jump in and know you can always tweak a mistake or change your mind for a bit of gold.

[KDubya]

I'd suggest just starting over. That way you can learn as you go starting with easier enemies rather than jumping in facing tougher enemies and not knowing the changes made.

[katie]

Thanks so much NoBear for the great response!

I am not sure about the patch version, but my save is probably from June. You see, I pre-ordered the game and then never actually played until June-ish. I then got into the main city and had to stop. So the game has been put on hold for many months.

 

I am probably just playing on Normal difficulty level.

I did play a bit today with the AI turned on, and you're right - I did not like it. I don't mind casting things by hand - that is part of the fun.

Right now, my Cipher has more points into Might and Int with 1 point in Per. I dunno if that's right - it's what someone on YouTube said to do.

 

Katie

[katie]

I'd suggest just starting over. That way you can learn as you go starting with easier enemies rather than jumping in facing tougher enemies and not knowing the changes made.

I was thinking about this, but that probably means by the time Monday comes, my new save will probably be earlier than my current one. This is definitely a game you need to do all at once. I wish I had the time to just play games like I did when I was growing up, playing BG2 and such. I even wrote guides for those games, as well as IWD2. But that was then.

[Nobear]

Firstly, you're welcome!

 

Right now, my Cipher has more points into Might and Int with 1 point in Per. I dunno if that's right - it's what someone on YouTube said to do.

 

1 point in Per? What do you mean exactly? Your lowest base attribute score is 3 (2 for certain races, 4 for others). Do you mean 1 above dumped, or 1 above average (11)? And are you sure this video was for version 2.0+? Because Per went from being a dump stat for ciphers to being a stat most players max on a cipher. Accuracy is good for anybody, but for a cipher in particular it's helpful so that your CC (e.g. Mental Binding) will more often land (even against tough bosses), and more often crit rather than hit or graze, so it'll last much longer on average.

 

If you're really playing on Normal, which you can check in the options menu, you could get by with just average Per even if it's not optimal. In PoTD, enemy stats are higher, including defenses, so accuracy is even more important for PoTD than for the lower difficulties.

[Boeroer]

So, for your cipher, do this:

 

- Retrain your cipher at an inn or in your stronghold (if you have already rebuilt the Brighthollow mansion)

 

- Decide if you want to play a melee oriented cipher (a lot micromanagement, more risk, probably more DPS and focus, play like a rogue) or a ranged cipher (less micro, less risk, more tactical flexibility, play like a ranger).

 

-Anyways, distribute your stat points like so:

PER>DEX>INT=MIG>CON=RES

 

Perception should be high so that your CC spells and your focus building attacks hit.

 

For abilities/talents: Biting Whip, Draining Whip, Weapon Focus, Apprentice's Sneak Attack

For melee: Vuln. Attack, Two Handed or Two Weapon Fighting.

Ranges: Penetr. Shot, Runner's Wounding Shot, Marksman

 

Powers: Mind Wave, Mental Binding, Phantom Foes if you took Appr. Sneak Attack or have a rogue in the team, Ectopsychic Echo, Tactical Meld & Borrowed Instinct, Amplified Wave. If melee also Antisomethin Field and Spirit Lance are good.

 

Gear:

Melee: Dual wielding sabres (Bittercut/Resolution/Purgatory) or two handed weapons: Greatswords (Hours of St. Rumbalt or Tidefall), Pikes (Tall Grass), Estocs (White Spire, Blade of the Endless Paths)

Ranged: War Bows (Borresaine, Sabra Marie) or Hunting Bows (Stormcaller) or Arbalests (Hold Wall or Aedrin's Wrecker). The bows provide a consistent stream of focus and the two war bows both cause afflictions on critical hits. If you like arbalests instead, take also the gunner talent or consider taking quick switch to produce a lot of focus at the beginning of the fight since your rate of fire will be slow otherwise. Start with Aedrin's Wrecker, fire, quickswitch to Hold Wall, fire, cast Powers and keep firing with Hold Wall. Arbalests always cause prone on crit.

[katie]

Firstly, you're welcome!

 

Right now, my Cipher has more points into Might and Int with 1 point in Per. I dunno if that's right - it's what someone on YouTube said to do.

 

1 point in Per? What do you mean exactly? Your lowest base attribute score is 3 (2 for certain races, 4 for others). Do you mean 1 above dumped, or 1 above average (11)? And are you sure this video was for version 2.0+? Because Per went from being a dump stat for ciphers to being a stat most players max on a cipher. Accuracy is good for anybody, but for a cipher in particular it's helpful so that your CC (e.g. Mental Binding) will more often land (even against tough bosses), and more often crit rather than hit or graze, so it'll last much longer on average.

 

If you're really playing on Normal, which you can check in the options menu, you could get by with just average Per even if it's not optimal. In PoTD, enemy stats are higher, including defenses, so accuracy is even more important for PoTD than for the lower difficulties.

 

I mean 8 points into Might (18), 8 points into Int (18) and 1 point into Per (11). The rest are 10. He seemed to think that Per was less important, and he had 1 version that maxed it also at the cost of Res.

 

The video had 19 points in Might instead of that 1 point of Per, BUT, I had selected the wrong race and/or background when I created my game. So I couldn't follow his guide exactly.

 

The video is here:

 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4UqltmSKaEeCbgMY7nx2U0kngJ77wwhX

 

If these videos are wrong, then this was my fear - wasting time watching stuff that takes away from gameplay - and the worst thing is, it was just wrong information.  

 

Thanks for the heads up!

 

Katie

Edited October 4, 2015 by katie

[Ineth]

Those videos seem to be factually accurate (the guy who did them certainly knows what he's talking about), and they do cover the current version of the game.

 

However, they tend to suggest gimmicky power-gamer builds, sometimes built around very specific weapon/equipment choices and play styles. So they're not for everyone.

[Nobear]

I mean 8 points into Might (18), 8 points into Int (18) and 1 point into Per (11). The rest are 10. He seemed to think that Per was less important, and he had 1 version that maxed it also at the cost of Res.

The video had 19 points in Might instead of that 1 point of Per, BUT, I had selected the wrong race and/or background when I created my game. So I couldn't follow his guide exactly.

 

The video is here:

 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4UqltmSKaEeCbgMY7nx2U0kngJ77wwhX

 

If these videos are wrong, then this was my fear - wasting time watching stuff that takes away from gameplay - and the worst thing is, it was just wrong information.  

 

Thanks for the heads up!

 

Katie

 

First, I second what Boeroer and Ineth said. Boeroer has definitely taught me some things I didn't previously know, particularly about ciphers, or just given me fun ideas to play with (some slightly gimmicky in the sense that he can tell you how to exploit certain item combinations, but I can appreciate that kind of deliciously fun creativity). In his post here, he covered the basics well. Note that his suggested stat priorities are, as I mentioned, slightly different from mine, but it's hard to go wrong with either, and one thing we agree on is that Per is quite important for a cipher. On Normal you should be fine with 11 even if it's suboptimal, though my vote would be in favor of the version with maxed Per at the cost of Res. My rationale is that, as a ranged CCer, most of the time you should not be getting hit anyway, and improved accuracy of your CC (and auto attacks that build focus to cast CC) will help you — and your whole party — survive better by controlling the battlefield better.

 

Now, as Ineth says, NerdCommando (who made those videos) has a good understanding of game mechanics. I would take his build suggestions, however, as a source of ideas rather than an ultimate authority. Instead of offering one or two good build suggestions for each class that are flexible, he offers several very specific builds that each have their strengths and weaknesses, and may or may not fit your preferences. One of the cool things about PoE is the diversity of viable builds and variations of these builds, some of which synergize better with some party compositions than others. So there's no such thing as one of his build ideas being "wrong" per se, since they are each viable and tested within their niche. That said, as I mentioned above, my vote would go for his variation that maxes Per at the cost of Res: it will be more useful to your main and your party as a whole in a wider range of situations.

[Boeroer]

What can I say? I'm a powergamer - and I'm proud of it.

I can only play when my two little kids (and my wife) are sleeping or they are all gone to the zoo or something like that. So I need to be as effective a possible.

 

On normal you can try a lot of things without being punished. Maybe you don't even need to retrain. But  the weekend is nearly over...

[PugPug]

I've been away a long time, too. Did they ever change anything regarding that huge power bump when pure casters start casting low-level spells as per-encounter instead of daily?

[Nobear]

I've been away a long time, too. Did they ever change anything regarding that huge power bump when pure casters start casting low-level spells as per-encounter instead of daily?

 

 

A couple of posters recently alluded to a recent thread that allegedly mentioned upcoming changes to that mechanic, but when I asked for a link, nobody responded. In any case, no such change has been made to the live game.

[Oralaina]

 

I've been away a long time, too. Did they ever change anything regarding that huge power bump when pure casters start casting low-level spells as per-encounter instead of daily?

 

 

A couple of posters recently alluded to a recent thread that allegedly mentioned upcoming changes to that mechanic, but when I asked for a link, nobody responded. In any case, no such change has been made to the live game.

 

 

I believe this would be the thread in question:

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/82460-confirmed-per-encounter-spells-are-getting-nerfed/?hl=%2Bper+%2Bencounter

[Ymarsakar]

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=416939844

 

If you like text instead of long videos.

 

The game is complex enough that if you come back to it after a long hiatus, it's like summer during school, people forget most of the mechanics.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Ymarsakar

[Oralaina]

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=416939844

 

If you like text instead of long videos.

 

The game is complex enough that if you come back to it after a long hiatus, it's like summer during school, people forget most of the mechanics.

 

Oh NICE!  Thanks, Ymar!

[Nobear]

 

 

I've been away a long time, too. Did they ever change anything regarding that huge power bump when pure casters start casting low-level spells as per-encounter instead of daily?

 

 

A couple of posters recently alluded to a recent thread that allegedly mentioned upcoming changes to that mechanic, but when I asked for a link, nobody responded. In any case, no such change has been made to the live game.

 

 

I believe this would be the thread in question:

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/82460-confirmed-per-encounter-spells-are-getting-nerfed/?hl=%2Bper+%2Bencounter

 

 

Thanks. That seems like it'll be an interesting change and add a bit of a strategic element to it, although TBH I had often thought that it would have made more sense to do a gradual transition like poster #4 on that thread suggests. It would have fit with the other types of gradual transitions, like the way you get one more spell cast per spell level per character level up to 4. Oh well, I guess that's not the direction they decided to take, and I'll refrain from throwing a tantrum about it until I have had a chance to see how it feels .

[katie]

I must admit, I am much better at fashion and my current job than video games these days, lol. I used to be one of those powergamers that loved to figure out how the game's worked. I wrote a bunch of FAQs on a lot of RPGs. And someone crafty enough might be able to figure out which ones were mime, lol.

 

I must admit, these games are hard to get into when you don't have the time. It is the kind of game that you need to breathe with and play at a slow pace, over 150-200 hours to both enjoy and explore the content but also explore the mechanics for oneself. 

 

Now, I just want to rely on the hard work of gamers who have more time than I do (I hope that's okay). I did contribute back in the day for what it's worth  

Thanks Boeroer for all of the help! I'm going to try these suggestions tonight and next weekend

I didn't end up getting a chance to play today. I was too busy running errands, picking up my jeans at the tailors (who did an amazing job hemming them!). So sad Katie for not being able to play. But the jeans look hot though! lol

http://i.imgur.com/xlaY2d6.jpg

Edited October 5, 2015 by katie

[katie]

So Cipher should have 18 in INT, DEX and PER and 10 in all of the stats and 3 in Res?

[Oralaina]

So Cipher should have 18 in INT, DEX and PER and 10 in all of the stats and 3 in Res?

 

After starting a new game today, with high Resolve.... I can say with perfect truth that if you DON'T have high Resolve, you're probably going to miss half the better convo ops in the game.  Personally, I think that's kind of sucky....

[KDubya]

So Cipher should have 18 in INT, DEX and PER and 10 in all of the stats and 3 in Res?

It depends on what you want your Cipher to do.

 

Unless you are soloing on PotD you don't need to go with extreme min maxing. The most important things are team synergy, tactics, understanding game mechanics and way down the list would be stats.

 

The high Perception is good to allow you to hit, always useful. If you are going to max something Perception is a really good choice.

 

Intellect gets you a bigger AoE with some powers and longer duration. Many Cipher powers affect a certain number of foes like five, with these Intellect does nothing. Some AoE powers do one thing to the target and something lesser to the area. Some powers last for a long time to start with like 20 seconds. Do you need them to last for 28 seconds (18 Intellect) or is 20 seconds long enough (10 intellect) and have eight stat points to spend elsewhere? There are also dialogue options to consider (I think 19 is the highest check), where Intellect gives you the clever type dialogues. Another thing to consider is food and items. Casita Casserole gets you +2 intellect and is readily available for a few coppers. Items can easily get you another +2. Without any Inn or Stronghold resting bonuses you can easily get and keep +4 in effect. With that you could go with a 15 Intellect and perma buff it to 19 and save three stat points for something else.

 

Might helps you with damage, especially from spells as it is the only modifier. Weapons get soul whip and biting whip for +40% damage, spells only get your Might bonus. If you are only going to CC the enemy with paralysis or charm then you don't need Might. If you are planning on damaging them with powers then Might is what you want to buff the damage up. It helps generate focus as well as more damage gets you more focus since it is based on % damage not per hit like it was prior to 1.06. Also helps with Fortitude.

 

Dexterity makes you faster. faster powers and faster weapons for faster focus. As long as you can hit faster is always better.

 

Constitution is not as important but I don't suggest dumping it. Enemies target weak soft targets now. If you can always keep out of danger and keep all the enemies CC or dead then you don't need much for Con. I'm not that good so I like to keep this at base. Also helps with Fortitude which helps with paralysis and stun which are a lot more common now.

 

Resolve has a lot of dialogue choices, for the strong conviction, force of personality type. Items can get +3, Inns can get +3 and really expensive food can get +3. I think 19 is the highest stat check, maybe a 20 somewhere. Dumping Resolve to a 3 will have consequences such as enemies will have +7 to hit you, your concentration check would be 75-21=54 so most attacks will interrupt you. Plus your Will save will be at -14 which will make you the target of choice for domination type attacks.

 

I'm a big fan of keeping everything at ten, pick three to raise to 15 and then have 3 points left to add to whatever.

[KDubya]

[ 

After starting a new game today, with high Resolve.... I can say with perfect truth that if you DON'T have high Resolve, you're probably going to miss half the better convo ops in the game.  Personally, I think that's kind of sucky....

It makes sense that you need to have intestinal fortitude, AKA Resolve, to make the tough choice, say what needs to be said and let the chips fall where they may.

 

A high Intellect person will be like a lawyer and find some loophole to exploit.

 

A high Resolve person will be grounded and have a moral compass and will do the right thing because it is the right thing. I always think of high resolve as John Wayne in "Big Jake" when he opens the box with the ransom money and it is instead just rocks and tells the kidnapper in a low voice "that whatever happens he (the kidnapper) is going to get shot, my fault, your fault, nobodies fault, no matter what else happens your going to be shot."

[Nobear]

So Cipher should have 18 in INT, DEX and PER and 10 in all of the stats and 3 in Res?

 

In short, I think that's a good distribution (for ranged, combat-wise). Longer answer below.

 

After starting a new game today, with high Resolve.... I can say with perfect truth that if you DON'T have high Resolve, you're probably going to miss half the better convo ops in the game.  Personally, I think that's kind of sucky....

 

That is a good point. Here is a recent thread started by another recently-returning player, but focused on dialogue options rather than combat. It depends what's more important to you. In the first response on that thread, Boeroer mentions that paladin support/tanks tend to be optimal as mains, since the same stats that are good for conversations will also be good for their combat performance. In addition, a paladin can gain up to +6 Deflection and +12 Fort/Reflex/Will by lining up the conversation choices you make with the dispositions important to your chosen order, but this mechanic only works if it's your main.

 

So if you wanted a paladin in your party at all, there'd be a gameplay advantage to making it your main, and having the cipher role taken by the cipher companion you can find, or by a hired adventurer. However, you've already started, time constraints and all, and the fact that you're (probably) not playing on PoTD, means it's probably not worth it to you to start over for that. Besides, some people have a special attachment to their main, and that's as valid a reason as any for the choices you make in a fantasy game.

 

Lastly, I'd say that the conversation options are never that crucial to the game. Their importance is largely personal and subjective. With dumped Res, you'll miss out on some opportunities to get your way, to make people believe you, etc. In practice, from a gameplay perspective, this will amount to a grand total of a few quests where you can't get the best possible outcome. Like you might be able to squeeze some more money out of a quest giver with higher Res, and there's at least one item I'm pretty sure you can't get without decent Res, but I can't think of any "must-have" awesome items you'd be missing, or any significant ways it would gimp you in the end. Also note that you wouldn't have any more convo options open to you at 10 Res than at 3 — checks are all from 11 to 20. You could get a few points more with an item and buffs, but your score still wouldn't be high enough to justify 7 points invested that would take away from other stats IMHO.

[Nobear]

As you can see, there are people like KDubya who have a good understanding of game mechanics yet choose not to min-max, and he does make a good case for his style. The more you read and play, the more you'll see that there aren't "right" or "wrong" builds in this game. That's not attempt at being PC, that's a statement based on how this game was designed. Fortunately there is now the respec option, for people who always have a better (or worse) idea the next day .

 

Yes, it's possible to design a downright lousy build in the sense that your stats don't match what you'd like to be good at, but the ones you mentioned, Katie, are quite decent if you want to focus more on CC than damage. If not, you could trade a couple of Int for a couple of Might, maybe bring Con down to 8 for a couple more Might... you can always tweak and see what you like best, but as KDubya said, stats end up being pretty low on the list in terms of overall success in PoE. After all, a lot of people (myself included) like to use all story companions for their RP and charm, and clear all fights on PoTD even though the companions have suboptimal stats.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Nobear

[PugPug]

 

Another thing to consider is food and items. Casita Casserole gets you +2 intellect and is readily available for a few coppers. Items can easily get you another +2. Without any Inn or Stronghold resting bonuses you can easily get and keep +4 in effect. With that you could go with a 15 Intellect and perma buff it to 19 and save three stat points for something else.

 

 

Perma buff? Is there such a thing? Or do you just mean a buff you can maintain perpetually with food/equipment/rest?

 

Or perma like the +1 stat tomes from the original Baldur's Gate?