Blarghagh Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Continued from here: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/80513-journalism-and-bias-in-the-gaming-industry/page-29 Same ol' stock description starting every thread here: For the uninitiated: The 'Gamergate' controversy was sparked in early 2013, as the release of Zoe Quinn's "Depression Quest" was criticized from gamers who believed that the game had received a suspicious amount of attention in relation to it's quality and scope. Eron Gjoni (Zoe's ex boyfriend) wrote a blogpost accusing Quinn of having had an affair with Kotaku journalist Grayson, prompting the critics to conclude that the attention and success of "Depression Quest" was due in part to unfair bias and nepotism in the industry. Several articles from both sides of the issue has highlighted inconsistencies in the stories of both Grayson, Quinn and Eron as well as the many other examples that have followed. Gamergate is wideley seen in the public, as a culture war over the diversification of gaming, artistic recognition and social criticism of video games and the gamer social identity. For the posters in this thread: Many bloggers and populists have tried to steer the discussion into areas they feel are the underlying issue - ranging from simple bias, to widespread misogny or misandry. I would however prefer that we keep this discussion as objective and clean as possible and so I will be keeping an a extra close eye on this thread. This certainly does not mean that you may not discuss any issue you feel, but rather that you should be thoughtful of how you discuss it with those you disagree with. Especially in regards to these three guidelines: Discrimination: Obsidian has a zero-tolerance policy with regard to racial, ethnic, gender, religious, disablement, and/or sexually discriminating remarks.Harassment: We ask that the users of this board treat one another with respect, even when opinions differ. Personal attacks that are intended to cause unwanted attention, embarrassment, or harm will not be tolerated. In addition, Obsidian does not tolerate disrespectful and/or slanderous posts about its competitors, developers and publishers. Such posts will be subject to editing or deleting, with its posters censured or banned. Objectionable Content: The use of abusive, vulgar or profane language, even if hidden through the use of symbols or other characters is not tolerated. Intentionally posting workarounds to our language filters are prohibited. Posts may be edited or deleted at any time by the moderation team, and depending on the severity and frequency of said posts, the poster may be censured or banned. Any posts in violation of the Forum Guidelines will either be removed or modified and authors of such posts will receive warnings and/or have their content placed under moderated review. AS BEFORE, PLEASE CHECK YOUR IMAGES FOR PROFANITY. IF THE IMAGE CONTAINS UNCENSORED PROFANITY THAT THE BOARD WOULD NORMALLY CENSOR, WE WILL REMOVE YOUR ENTIRE POST. 1
Nonek Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Might it be prudent to add that the SPJ are currently investigating the whole movement in your introduction Mr Neutral? Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin. Tea for the teapot!
Meshugger Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 The origin of this whole mess, Mr. Gjoni has gotten a lawyer that wishes to raise the issue of his gag-order to the Massaschussetts court: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/08/24/you-are-also-ordered-not-to-post-any-further-information-about-the-plaintiff/ For these reasons, amici ask the Court to hold that the restraining order violates the First Amendment. Not a nobody either, it seems like he is a hot-shot First Amendment lawyer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Volokh Another GG-article by spiked-online: http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/gamergate-taking-on-the-new-feminism#.VdyRz_ntlBc It’s the verisimilitude of some games that has Sarkeesian and her supporters concerned, but they’re missing the point. These are not real worlds; they are realms that exist in the imaginations of game developers and the players who choose to enter. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
Grand Admiral Cheesecake Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 I've been following this whole event since shortly after it got started. One thing I think people seem to be less aware of is just how much of the very worst of the vitriol on both sides has been the work of unaligned trolls.
Fighter Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 I think "the harassment" is the worst and the most cynically deployed excuse going all the way back to Sarkeesian's kickstarter. It has never been anything more than how the internet always was and even before internet when celebrities of any stature would get creepy mail. Fighting it is pointless because it's human nature. Most people are normal, some people are dumb and crazy. Good luck solving that one. Because "stopping sexism" will get rid of the vast spectrum and diversity of human behavior, right? Sure... But it's become the ultimate trump card to level against people who've got nothing do with any harassment and a convenient excuse to never address what they say. 3
Hurlshort Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 Yes, why fight against harassment when we can bicker over important issues like ethics in game journalism? 1
BruceVC Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 Yes, why fight against harassment when we can bicker over important issues like ethics in game journalism? Guys this is a very important point, I hope everyone understands and recognizes its value "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
Orogun01 Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 Yes, why fight against harassment when we can bicker over important issues like ethics in game journalism? Because we actually did the sensible thing and told those oversensitive snowflakes to **** off, but they're still here. Look; you can stop it with snide sarcasm, we know that this is a group of people protecting their favorite hobby from an ideological takeover and since the feminist have been so confrontational in the past now every game that bears the SJW mark will be rejected by GG. They have no one to blame but themselves, had they been sensible human beings instead of professional victims that demonize gamers we wouldn't have gotten to this point. I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"* *If you can't tell, it's you.
Blarghagh Posted August 26, 2015 Author Posted August 26, 2015 Yes, why fight against harassment when we can bicker over important issues like ethics in game journalism? ^ Pretending that even a single person who complained about GamerGate actually got off their butts and "fought" harassment. At least GamerGate took action and organized boycotts and such, so yeah, apparently that issue IS more important. Social media was crying over harassment and the only people who actually took action? GamerGate harassment patrol! That should be their slogan: GamerGate, combating harassment because you're too lazy!
Malcador Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 (edited) Yes, why fight against harassment when we can bicker over important issues like ethics in game journalism? Guys this is a very important point, I hope everyone understands and recognizes its value And what value is that point, really ? Other than the usual ersatz wit. Still rather surprised that given how awful this harassment is, no one's killed themselves yet. Has been useful to elevate people's standing, so to speak, though. Edited August 26, 2015 by Malcador Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Hurlshort Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 Oh no, Hurlshot made a sarcastic remark about GG. Everybody freak out!
ShadySands Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 Everybody freak out! Don't mind if I do! 4 Free games updated 3/4/21
Fighter Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 (edited) Yes, why fight against harassment when we can bicker over important issues like ethics in game journalism? I have a better idea. Why deal with any of those things when we can fight windmills instead. None of them are fighting harassment and never were. And I don't think they care about it, the "fight against harassment" is just a tool. Guys this is a very important point, I hope everyone understands and recognizes its value Well I hope you understand how utterly that's missing the point. Edited August 26, 2015 by Fighter
Hurlshort Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 At least GamerGate took action and organized boycotts and such, so yeah, apparently that issue IS more important. Social media was crying over harassment and the only people who actually took action? GamerGate harassment patrol! That should be their slogan: GamerGate, combating harassment because you're too lazy! Wait a sec, that is great news! That is the kind of movement I can get behind, I am glad to hear that it is happening. That also seems to be completely contrary to everything Fighter keeps saying.
Malcador Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 Yes, why fight against harassment when we can bicker over important issues like ethics in game journalism? ^ Pretending that even a single person who complained about GamerGate actually got off their butts and "fought" harassment. At least GamerGate took action and organized boycotts and such, so yeah, apparently that issue IS more important. Social media was crying over harassment and the only people who actually took action? GamerGate harassment patrol! That should be their slogan: GamerGate, combating harassment because you're too lazy! Hey, they made hashtags and posted articles decrying it. Oh yeah, and some made Codes of Conduct - ok even if those are just a hammer for themselves. So some did something! And really, humans can multi-task well, anyway. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Fighter Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 No harassment patrol is going to rid the world of a**holes.
Blarghagh Posted August 26, 2015 Author Posted August 26, 2015 No, I'm not saying they were effective. I'm just saying they're the only ones who did anything.
Fighter Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 No, I'm not saying they were effective. I'm just saying they're the only ones who did anything. It's true. I'm just tired that the so called conversation around harassment is empty bs that has nothing to do with reality.
Oerwinde Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 It bugs me that GG still gets blamed for the bomb threat against Sarkeesian's speech, after the GG harassment patrol tracked down who did it and forwarded the evidence to Sarkeesian, and she didn't even pass it on to the FBI The area between the balls and the butt is a hotbed of terrorist activity.
Nonek Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 Well most of the harassment is a lie, we have seen that it is used to tar innocent millions whom happen to play games with the same brush, but that is really par for the course. The SJWs are by and large morally repugnant, sick, twisted individuals whom support censorship, criminality, genocide and are perpetuating an agenda that is built on hate and lies, the harassment they claim is really a projection of their own hostility and nothing more. One should expect no more from these people, their lies will be parroted even when disproven, they are becoming laughing stocks to anyone reasonable. Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin. Tea for the teapot!
Blarghagh Posted August 26, 2015 Author Posted August 26, 2015 It bugs me that GG still gets blamed for the bomb threat against Sarkeesian's speech, after the GG harassment patrol tracked down who did it and forwarded the evidence to Sarkeesian, and she didn't even pass it on to the FBI I know, right? GG tracks down a perpetrator for people who hate their guts, because it's the right thing to do. Note how nobody on the other side even said anything about the bomb threats against the GamerGate meeting in New York or the SPJ Airplay panel were even bad. No, I'm not saying they were effective. I'm just saying they're the only ones who did anything. It's true. I'm just tired that the so called conversation around harassment is empty bs that has nothing to do with reality. The sad truth is that anonymous harassment is a truth of the digital world and all attempts to stop it have been mostly pointless. The only way to combat it is to remove anonymity but then you'll still have non-anonymous cyber-bullying which will prevent everyone who has something to come to terms with such as closeted homosexuality or mental illness (not a comparison, mind you) to seek anonymous help online, which is throwing out the baby with the bathwater. I'm not willing to trade away a safe place for all those people to get rid of people's anonymous ****posting.
Fighter Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 I would have thought the fact that people now have easy access to talk to you would be counteracted by how removed and impersonal the communication is. But apparently that isn't working for people.
Hurlshort Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 The idea that the internet is just a cesspool and that's the way life and human nature are seems incredibly cynical and short sided. Humanity has a long history of making social progress. I'm certainly not saying the internet is going to change quickly, but we are barely into a second generation of regular internet users. This is the first generation to have access at all times to social media. It will change drastically as we move forward.
Blarghagh Posted August 26, 2015 Author Posted August 26, 2015 The idea that the internet is just a cesspool and that's the way life and human nature are seems incredibly cynical and short sided. Humanity has a long history of making social progress. I'm certainly not saying the internet is going to change quickly, but we are barely into a second generation of regular internet users. This is the first generation to have access at all times to social media. It will change drastically as we move forward. I didn't say it couldn't change. Right now, however, it's just the way it is and it's been steadily getting worse over the last ten years. It's going to take a major paradigm shift to change that and I don't see that happening any time soon. Certainly not within the next ten years.
Cottonmouth Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 The idea that the internet is just a cesspool and that's the way life and human nature are seems incredibly cynical and short sided. Humanity has a long history of making social progress. I'm certainly not saying the internet is going to change quickly, but we are barely into a second generation of regular internet users. This is the first generation to have access at all times to social media. It will change drastically as we move forward. Humanity has a long history of designing ever better systems and institutions to shackle and contain the negatives of human nature. The internet being a cesspool isn't surprising in the least. Why are perfectly decent people offline **** online? Because the costs of being an **** are very small in anonymous environments. Remove anonymity and have people shame whoever they disagree with, and most will modify their behaviour. Just like they do offline. Of cousrse, anonymity isn't all bad. Not having to bear the costs for speaking your mind if others disagree can be a good thing, because it encourages honesty.
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