Engagement and Patch 2.0

[Torm51]

So far I have been playing the beta patch and Engaging enemies doesn't really seem to be any better.  What you guys think actually makes you keep aggro?  Anyone else have a different experience?

[alexis13]

just get IEMod engagement is stupid and ruins movement during combat, turn it off.

[Doppelschwert]

just get IEMod engagement is stupid and ruins movement during combat, turn it off.

How very constructive...

 

On topic, I'd like to know that too, especially since I can't access the patch yet with GoG.

Weren't there people in other threads talking about enemies rushing besides your frontline to hit your guys in the back?

[Mercbeast]

 

just get IEMod engagement is stupid and ruins movement during combat, turn it off.

How very constructive...

 

On topic, I'd like to know that too, especially since I can't access the patch yet with GoG.

Weren't there people in other threads talking about enemies rushing besides your frontline to hit your guys in the back?

 

 

Yes. My experience is  that unless you can bottleneck the fight in a natural chokepoint, your tanks can only hold as much as they have engagement slots. The AI is also pretty proactive about funneling everyone through any little gap in your line it finds. In addition, archers won't attack your tanks, at all, they just tunnel down your soft targets. I believe the AI prioritizes based on DR but I may be mistaken on that.

[Torm51]

 

 

just get IEMod engagement is stupid and ruins movement during combat, turn it off.

How very constructive...

 

On topic, I'd like to know that too, especially since I can't access the patch yet with GoG.

Weren't there people in other threads talking about enemies rushing besides your frontline to hit your guys in the back?

 

 

Yes. My experience is  that unless you can bottleneck the fight in a natural chokepoint, your tanks can only hold as much as they have engagement slots. The AI is also pretty proactive about funneling everyone through any little gap in your line it finds. In addition, archers won't attack your tanks, at all, they just tunnel down your soft targets. I believe the AI prioritizes based on DR but I may be mistaken on that.

 

 

 

I mean that hasn't really changed anything for me.  Pre 2.0 AI would still run past my tanks and archers wouldn't attack my tanks unless it was the only thing they could reach.  I have been playing 2.0 and there have been times when an enemy passes my tanks but I engage it and it will stick to my tank even though its back is to my second line and it can turn around and hit the softees.  I have seen more spell variation and AOE spells being thrown at my if my group is stacked.  So the AI is better.  Aggro type management is still a mystery to me.  I just engage dudes and they seem to stick but I never have any + engagement talents and it works fine.

[View619]

It's possible that work started on AI targeting before the 2.0 beta patch. Personally, I always noticed that mobs would focus on the front-line and make no real attempts to attack softer targets. Also, archers would focus fire on whoever first entered their range and would not be reactive about switching targets if possible.

 

Since testing with beta 2.0, enemies make an effort to ignore tanks if possible and go for softer targets. Meaning, they will not dog-pile your tanks anymore unless they are the best option (endurance, debuffs, etc) or the enemies are engaged. Enemies are also very good concerning when they switch between targets in range; they still seem to stick to engaged targets to avoid getting slapped with disengagement attacks though.

[Torm51]

ya even though a fully defensive tanks disengagement attacks are crap lol thanks to DR.

[View619]

ya even though a fully defensive tanks disengagement attacks are crap lol thanks to DR.

 

Yeah, there's still work to be done. A good initial step though.

[Torm51]

Well that leads me to the above topic I made.  If that is ever the case tanks will go away unless you give them something that gives them a massive damage boost when they are either attacking with disengagement or not being attacked. 

[Raven Darkholme]

I personally will play all my characters like solo characters now, if the pathing is indeed better, than it might be worth thinking about more melees per group.

[Torm51]

I personally will play all my characters like solo characters now, if the pathing is indeed better, than it might be worth thinking about more melees per group.

 

Like solo meaning? High Con? That's all I have seen from solo play throughs...but I haven't seen that much of them.

[Raven Darkholme]

High CO and high deflectzion, W+S style and so on.

Basically defensive enough to get agroed.

[Torm51]

High CO and high deflectzion, W+S style and so on.

Basically defensive enough to get agroed.

I am finding it increasingly difficult as a Paladin to fit in Intellect.  I really want my aura to be party wide but it seems in this game and the small range of the auras that Melee Paladins will have a tough time fitting Int in.  Much easier for a gunadin or a ranged Paladin to take Int.  Currently my Tanks Int is high but I had to leave Might at 10 because of it.  So offensively hes not very good.  Which is why I created the topic above.  Maybe I should just forget about the aura/buff side and keep them at their base of 10.  Melee Paladins have too many other stats to worry about.

 

Paladin useful Attributes.

 

Might

 

Per

 

Int

 

Res

 

Con (as of 2.0 you get hit more so more hp is good but its debatable).

 

Its too many so you can either be inept offensively and stay alive or get your but kicked in Melee because you don't have enough deflection.  Ive been testing out 2handed Plate wearing DPS and without some defensive talents you get mashed (PoTD).    

 

PS so far my party has been successful I am just pointing out some things about tanks and Paladins.  I mean its good even as an offensively inept tank I know the game and choke points so I win.

Edited August 24, 2015 by Torm51

[Raven Darkholme]

Yeah my three chicks paladina even dumped IN, with the boots you still hit the other tank most times...

[Torm51]

I freakin hate dumping (not hating on it at all just not my style but I get it totally) but ya I think I am going to leave Int at 10.

[Raven Darkholme]

I freakin hate dumping (not hating on it at all just not my style but I get it totally) but ya I think I am going to leave Int at 10.

I wouldn't dump it again myself.

[stratigo]

If the enemy ignors your tanks, there's no poin in having tanks.

 

BG combat was ****stupid guys. Like, I know people are nostalgic, but it was a hideously broken set of nonsense. Trying to emulate it more is dramatically silly.

[Torm51]

If the enemy ignors your tanks, there's no poin in having tanks.

 

BG combat was ****stupid guys. Like, I know people are nostalgic, but it was a hideously broken set of nonsense. Trying to emulate it more is dramatically silly.

I have been tweaking my high defense Paladin and I pretty much play him like I am pvping players.  I start the fight with no shield to trick the AI so it thinks I have way lower deflection then I really have.  I have armor and high End so a few hits is no big deal.  I also have Zealous Charge on if anything un sticks I disengage (no big deal I have high defense and more disengage Defense with Charge) and pretty much pin ball around engagement stuff while my aura helps my ranged Kite if they have to.  Its actually fun and a very interactive way of Playing a Paladin who is known to be not very...well interactive.  Also with a heavy one hander like a Mace, Warhammer or Saber going onehanded style gives you some sick disengagement attacks that will make the AI pay.

 

If I am taking too much heat I just switch to weapon and shield and am a full tank again.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Torm51

[View619]

 

If the enemy ignors your tanks, there's no poin in having tanks.

 

BG combat was ****stupid guys. Like, I know people are nostalgic, but it was a hideously broken set of nonsense. Trying to emulate it more is dramatically silly.

I have been tweaking my high defense Paladin and I pretty much play him like I am pvping players.  I start the fight with no shield to trick the AI so it thinks I have way lower deflection then I really have.  I have armor and high End so a few hits is no big deal.  I also have Zealous Charge on if anything un sticks I disengage (no big deal I have high defense and more disengage Defense with Charge) and pretty much pin ball around engagement stuff while my aura helps my ranged Kite if they have to.  Its actually fun and a very interactive way of Playing a Paladin who is known to be not very...well interactive.  Also with a heavy one hander like a Mace, Warhammer or Saber going onehanded style gives you some sick disengagement attacks that will make the AI pay.

 

If I am taking too much heat I just switch to weapon and shield and am a full tank again.

 

 

Thank you for confirming that the AI takes disengagement attacks into consideration. Engagement should now work as originally intended.

[limaxophobiacq]

The new high-level Paladin ability, Immolation, is AoE damage over time, per encounter, and kind of incredible. I think Paladins will not want to dump Int in the future.

Edited August 25, 2015 by limaxophobiacq

[stratigo]

 

If the enemy ignors your tanks, there's no poin in having tanks.

 

BG combat was ****stupid guys. Like, I know people are nostalgic, but it was a hideously broken set of nonsense. Trying to emulate it more is dramatically silly.

I have been tweaking my high defense Paladin and I pretty much play him like I am pvping players.  I start the fight with no shield to trick the AI so it thinks I have way lower deflection then I really have.  I have armor and high End so a few hits is no big deal.  I also have Zealous Charge on if anything un sticks I disengage (no big deal I have high defense and more disengage Defense with Charge) and pretty much pin ball around engagement stuff while my aura helps my ranged Kite if they have to.  Its actually fun and a very interactive way of Playing a Paladin who is known to be not very...well interactive.  Also with a heavy one hander like a Mace, Warhammer or Saber going onehanded style gives you some sick disengagement attacks that will make the AI pay.

 

If I am taking too much heat I just switch to weapon and shield and am a full tank again.

 

maybe I'm wierd, but I like controling my main char, and my favorite class is a cipher. One of the changes I was looking forward to was they I wouldn't have to obsessively micro all my party for them to not suck. Tanks literally lack a point if you can't hold aggro through unless.... you stop being as tanky.

 

I mean in BG2, fighter type classes were all sorts of worthless without a mage just buffing them. But you could go "lul" and take all magic using guys, self buff, and stomp everything anyways. PoE doesn't even have long lasting buffs, so... from what I'm getting is that tank classes are just worthless now. Make them dps.

[Torm51]

 

 

If the enemy ignors your tanks, there's no poin in having tanks.

 

BG combat was ****stupid guys. Like, I know people are nostalgic, but it was a hideously broken set of nonsense. Trying to emulate it more is dramatically silly.

I have been tweaking my high defense Paladin and I pretty much play him like I am pvping players.  I start the fight with no shield to trick the AI so it thinks I have way lower deflection then I really have.  I have armor and high End so a few hits is no big deal.  I also have Zealous Charge on if anything un sticks I disengage (no big deal I have high defense and more disengage Defense with Charge) and pretty much pin ball around engagement stuff while my aura helps my ranged Kite if they have to.  Its actually fun and a very interactive way of Playing a Paladin who is known to be not very...well interactive.  Also with a heavy one hander like a Mace, Warhammer or Saber going onehanded style gives you some sick disengagement attacks that will make the AI pay.

 

If I am taking too much heat I just switch to weapon and shield and am a full tank again.

 

maybe I'm wierd, but I like controling my main char, and my favorite class is a cipher. One of the changes I was looking forward to was they I wouldn't have to obsessively micro all my party for them to not suck. Tanks literally lack a point if you can't hold aggro through unless.... you stop being as tanky.

 

I mean in BG2, fighter type classes were all sorts of worthless without a mage just buffing them. But you could go "lul" and take all magic using guys, self buff, and stomp everything anyways. PoE doesn't even have long lasting buffs, so... from what I'm getting is that tank classes are just worthless now. Make them dps.

 

 

 

Not quite.  Enemies just don't completely ignore the tank.  If you get them to stick they will for the most part but its the overspill you get on PoTD that will ignore you and a lot of times that's like 4 baddies cause of the numbers on that difficulty.  You still need characters that are durable in PoTD.  I made Eder this time in Plate dpsing and he does very well but If I don't cc for him and he gets mobbed and wrecked very quickly.   The defensive based characters do not.  I think its worth having at least one.  trick the AI into attack him and go to town on them.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Torm51