Feeling the game lacks something

[ArnoldRimmer]

HI... I used to play games but havent for about 11 years. The last game I plaid was BG2 so I bought the new version from steam and played that all through march... I have now bought PoE... and feel like something is wrong or missing.

 

Don'T get me wrong, it's amazing, the games depth is cool compared to BG2 but...

 

Characters can do anything with any weapon or amour, everyone seems to have thief skills... I have all these different classes in my party (after about 5 hours play) but I don't really feel attached to any compared to BG as they all seem the same to me. They all seem to do what each other can do, sure there are a few new abilities and such but it seems not to make that much difference to the game...basically once combat starts it seems like you can forget about using ranged weapons - everyone just runs at each other and are standing next to each other before my bows have been fired... then there are the priests. I have 2 in my party, but I have yet to have any use for healing spells, the same for my paladin and lay on hands. I just don't understand why they don't seem to do anyting to the health... what'S the point in healing endurance it rcovers so quickly after a fight that by the time a priest has cast a spell there is nothing left to heal.

 

 

I bought nights training when I leveled up my paladin but really I can't see the point in it, it hasn't seemed to have done anything and when priest join your party with 2 handed swords I have to wonder why I even became a paladin.

 

I did think about hiring a thief - but why? My paladin has been picking locks for me for the last 5 hours... who needs a thief.. what advantages would it bring my party?

 

Maybe I just need to play it a bit longer but seems like so much effort went into making something as immersive as possible that all the fun was left out - at least as far as characters go...if everyone can pretty much do everything what's the point in selecting classes... I also haven't seen that much benefit from my wizard either... sure he lets of a few spells every once in a while but after firing one spell the fight is either over or he is engaged in melee and has to use his weapon.

 

Anyone else who came from playing the bioware games feel like this or is it just me? Maybe I just need to give it more time?

[Cantousent]

Welcome aboard, Arnold! Glad to hear some input from new members.

 

As a practical matter, I would of course give it more time simply because you've already purchased and installed the game. It might be that the game isn't for you, but if you've been out of gaming for a while, I think it's more of a learning curve thing.

 

For my part, I think it can be a pain getting the hang of protecting ranged folks (casters or bowmen), but once you do it's not so hard. The trick is to have one or two characters with enough engagement to keep people preoccupied. Now, I find wizards kind of tricky in that they have some great spells that work really well in melee range. Yes, it seems weird to ol' skoolers like you to plop plate armor on your wizard, but it actually gives you more options. ...And, trust me, wizards in plate don't play of feel the same as melee types swinging a sword. Of course, you also have the option of eschewing short range spells and sticking with a standard spell hurling pointy hat and robes type of caster.

 

Rogues are useful for dishing out some serious heat. Don't think of them as necessary for utility type assignments. Yes, they get a bonus to some sneak n' picky sort of stuff, but basically they're role is to perforate the bad guys' livers, not to eavesdrop on their conversations or pick the locks on their treasure chests.

 

The skills thing is probably going to be something you'll either come to appreciate or find at least a little off-putting. I can't speak for the design team other than to say that the whole reason that classes aren't restricted to iron clad (or non iron clad as the case may be) roles is because they devs wanted characters to have a lot of freedom. That doesn't mean somewhat typecast characters aren't possible, but it does mean that you'll enjoy the game more if you don't think of the classes as being confined to playing out the roles that they had in BG2.

 

So, long story short, figure out how to engage enemies so ranged folks can dish out the heat and don't think of the classes as what their main function was in BG2 but what their potential function is in PoE and, finally, try to enjoy the freedom you have in assigning non-combat skills to various members of the party so you aren't *required* to include a rogue just so you can pick a lock.

 

Maybe that won't work for you, but I hope it does and you can enjoy the game. ...But feel free to come back to acclaim, complain, or just kibitz. once again, welcome to the forum!

[Nakia]

 Cantousent has pretty well covered things but I will add a couple of things.  There is a learning curve to the game and remember there will be a new patch coming out soon maybe even today.

 

Some hints for combat.  Have one fighter as a tank.  He or she will need to stand up to melee attacks and will be an excellent protector of your ranged members.  Have an off-tank more mobile but able to give support to your tank and take damage.  Endurance is very import.  Put three points of athletics into all party members.  Give your tank some points in stealth this way he can move up close to the enemy undetected.    At the moment I think the consensus is that survival is not very important.  A few points in lore also make it possible for non-casting party members to use low level spells which can be handy.

 

Welcome to the forum and the land of Eora.

[ArnoldRimmer]

Thanks for the tips!

 

Maybe you can also tell me how encumbrance works? I haven't found away to drop anything... right now i have a mage carrying 10 suits of armour but it hasn't appeared to have affected him, can anyone carry anything?

 

How can I remove stuff? How big is the stash? What is the logic behind it? Is it a something like a bag of holding that I found somewhere?

 

Also is there no concept in the game of ammunition for ranged weapons? Does everyone just have unlimited arrows?

[Cantousent]

Welcome to some of the more controversial decisions. The short answer is that inventory acts in exactly the way it seems. So, yeah. You've got an immense capacity to carry stuff straight away and you've got unlimited ammo. I got used to some stuff quickly. The inventory system remained a little off-putting for a while, but the ammo thing never bothered me much.

[Nakia]

Yes, I think the stash is like a bag bog holding.  I think of it that way which helps accept it.  Some have suggested thinking of it as an invisible mule that will carry all you stuff without complain g.  Unlimited ammo is handy I guess but I do kind of miss having all those different arrows, bolts whatever.  Not too much though. Anyone can carry anything but I stick most of the loot in the stash until I can sell it.  Just keep things the party can really use in the inventory.  Extra food, potions, scrolls and maybe an extra weapon if it is special.  Traps that I might use also.  

 

Since I never cared for any inventory in any game I have played the unlimited stash is fine with me.  I am happy with the way OE handled the inventory and hope they don't change it.

[ArnoldRimmer]

Hmm.. yeah I miss those flame arrows and arrows of acid

 

So if Anyone can carry anything and we can carry unlimited amounts of anything what is the logic behind limiting me to carrying 4 days worth of camping supplies? I'm carrying around 50 suits of armour, but a 5th days worth of food is some how too heavy? lol

 

Also do game shops act like BG/BG2 - in that game it didn't matter how poor the shopkeeper was he always had 150000 gold coins lying around to buy the contents of your bag of holding with! I was rather hoping things would be different in this game!

[Andriel]

- atmosphere everywhere! (music!)

- micro design of locations

- balance

Edited August 3, 2015 by Andriel

[Nakia]

Hmm.. yeah I miss those flame arrows and arrows of acid

 

So if Anyone can carry anything and we can carry unlimited amounts of anything what is the logic behind limiting me to carrying 4 days worth of camping supplies? I'm carrying around 50 suits of armour, but a 5th days worth of food is some how too heavy? lol

 

Also do game shops act like BG/BG2 - in that game it didn't matter how poor the shopkeeper was he always had 150000 gold coins lying around to buy the contents of your bag of holding with! I was rather hoping things would be different in this game!

Shopkeepers have unlimited funds;  Camping?    Hokay, I love the game but it isn't perfect, yet. 

[wanderon]

If you are finding normal difficulty a little too easy (not worth it to have cleric healing because fights over too quick) try ramping it up to hard - you will then only be able to carry 2 sets of camp gear and battles will have a few more enemies to make things a bit more challenging.

 

I wouldn't worry about figuring out the whole endurance/healing thing myself - just consider the whole thing to be health and let the engine do the endurance/healing math behind the scenes - when health (endurance) hits 0 you are knocked out of the fight (unless you have some gear with 2nd chance on like Eder) but you will wake up when it's over and as you lose health over time (bar turns yellow or red) you better rest and get your health back.

 

You can easily clear excess stuff out of each party members inventory to the "stash" (chest at the bottom of the screen) by using shift/click and then go back into the stash and pull items out as you need them - you can sell from either inventory or stash also.

 

Welcome aboard! 

[Merina]

Characters can do anything with any weapon or amour, everyone seems to have thief skills...

A wizard in heavy armor, why not? ... It slows down the wizard's actions, though. Just like it does with everyone else. And not every class receives a bonus to thieving skills.

 

I have all these different classes in my party (after about 5 hours play) but

Too early to judge about it.

 

basically once combat starts it seems like you can forget about using ranged weapons - everyone just runs at each other and are standing next to each other before my bows have been fired...

Read about the Engagement system. It really makes a huge difference compared with BG2 and makes real blockers and tanks worthwhile again. You don't need to run towards the enemy. And not all enemies run towards you either. Ranged attackers will wait and attack you from the distance. You can do the same with yours.

 

then there are the priests.

I have 2 in my party, but I have yet to have any use for healing spells, the same for my paladin

and lay on hands. I just don't understand why they don't seem to do anyting to the health...

Endurance and Health are two different things ... you may need to read up on them to understand it. During combat, you may want to keep Endurance up to avoid knock-down.

 

what'S the point in healing endurance it rcovers so quickly after a fight that by the time a priest

has cast a spell there is nothing left to heal.

You don't cast "healing spells" to increase Endurance after battle.

 

when priest join your party with 2 handed swords I have to wonder why I even became a paladin.

After only five hours? ... Priest and Paladin are very different with what they can do.

 

I did think about hiring a thief - but why? My paladin has been picking locks for me for the last 5 hours...

Revisit this decision when you're finding traps with difficulty 9 or 11 or more. Will your Paladin be able to handle them? Will you spend all points on Mechanics, neglecting other skills completely and still failing to compensate the Rogue's skill bonus?

 

who needs a thief.. what advantages would it bring my party?

A lot of fun! Scouting and sneak attacks, high damage abilities, invisibility to avoid engagement ...

 

Maybe I just need to play it a bit longer

Play up to entering Defiance Bay ... it's a really well-made city in my opinion ... and especially when the NPCs start talking to eachother.

 

[evilcat]

In every Paladin life comes time of crisis of faith when he or she question the choosen path. It is important to remind why you become Paladin in first place. Maybe wanted to make the world a better place now! Or seek for adventure and glory (Paladins are tolerant in that regard)...

Oh wait, we are talking about gaming. )

 

With mechanic every class can do it, but... rogue with right orgin is 2 points ahead. And you its more optimal to choose some 2 characters for traping purpose, and on rest focus more on athletic, knowledge and survival.

So some roleplaying solves a confusion. Even more if we think that our fihter can do traps, since... was crafter in old times, but then came war and everyone became fighter willingly or not.

 

Everyone can do most of the same... but sometimes not. And some classes are better at other things.

As Priest you can swing Sword as much as Paladin but... Paladin just hits things more often (higher accuracy), and is hit less (much better defence).

As Fighter you can pewpew, but there is not much class specific talents which support that very much. And you waste inherit fighter ability to tanking/offtanking.

 

Some solution would be rising difficulty level. Since on normal the game could be chaotic but succesful. But on hard it is easier to find purpose in dedicated tank. Or having some ranged characters pewpewing from backrow with lighter armor, and not blocking themselves in tight corridors. Or well placed caster death zone (multiply aoe spells immobiliting enemies in area and dealing dmg).

 

Another aproach to Paladins: I havent play much with them. But maybe they bring just too little in comparison to other options. Tanking with fighter is more pleasant, and to some degree more fun, since tripping enemies over is fun and usefull. Paladin healing will not obsolete Priest, and with Priest in party is not that needed. Paladin dps is not as high as Rogue and no AOE, you cant even buff it much. Aura is comparable to Chanter, exept its harder to switch aura. And in most cases single spell from full caster outclass it....

You can play paladin and it will be fun, or play something else and not miss much.

 

About some game design:

Encumbrance - outside survival games there is little fun in having limited inventory.

Acid arrows - we can always imbue weapon with element and call it flaming arrows. Or with higher level cap there could be a new talent for flavored arrows. There need to be new talents anyway.

Priest vs Paladins - Player Paladin does better job at tanking i suppose. But there is whole topic of balance of classes. And generally casters get alot with levels, and its hard to balance that with more martial classes. On the bright side, it is SP game so balance is not that important.

Priest/Paladin NPC devotion - that is some problem, that NPC cant gain devotion as player character, maing npc Priest/Paladin just weaker. Maybe there could be some NPC only feat grantnting devotion or something.

Edited August 3, 2015 by evilcat

[View619]

You can just treat the stash like throwing things on the ground, then ignore it. Also, it would serve you well if you didn't correlate classes in D&D/BG2 to those in Pillars of Eternity; some have similarities but play differently. 

 

Regarding each class having access to all gear, remember that there's a recovery trade-off for wearing heavier armour. So, putting spell casters or Rogues in their D&D armour equivalents can be a good way of balancing survivability with action speed.

[Kilburn]

The classes are all totally different. Crank up the difficulty maybe and you will be forced to use your classes to their full potential.

 

I can agree with you on the skill system. It is not very deep or well developed and actually feels tacked on. Probably it was rushed. But atleast they are adding individual stealth so there will be more than one useful skill (mechanics and a couple points in athletics is all you really NEED at the moment).

 

But the rest is all wrong. Priest and paladin are totally different.   

 

Priest is a very strong, warding seal is borderline broken and so is iconic projection if you have 3 or more priests and spam it.

Edited August 3, 2015 by Kilburn