Journalism and Bias in the Gaming Industry

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

Oh don't misunderstand me, I am completely supportive of people saying what they want

 

But I  battle to accept a baseless and uninformed criticism and I will challenge that 

 

 

 

 

Trolls don't hide in closets, they hide under bridges. As much fun as it may be to illustrate Bruce's consistent hypocrisy and mutually exclusive positions it never, ever results in anything because he's either the most self acritical person in the known universe or he's doing it deliberately to get a reaction and to derail, in which case every reply gives him exactly what he wants and encourages rather than discourages/ gets him to reflect on anything.

 

Again, ignore or Ignore. There's nothing to be gained from engaging Bruce on this subject, if there were it would have happened in the previous 2400 (?) posts.

 

Zora can I ask you favor, can you stop constantly saying 

 

And once again another inaccurate "comparison " 

 

I have no issue with a debate but the sole contribution Zora makes is to feel the need to keep saying  " Bruce is a Troll " 

 

So this is directly related to me so once again another example of an inane comment  that I will sometimes respond to 

 

 

Of course it is completely accurate; once again you dismiss anything called upon you without any introspection. Ever wonder why no one takes you seriously and dismisses you as a troll to begin with? Because the lack of logical coherency in your claims? Because of lack of rationale? Because of avoiding any form of principle? 

 

You decide.

[BruceVC]

 

But I  battle to accept a baseless and uninformed criticism and I will challenge that

Seeing as you've offered no rebuttal to Messhugger and I's assertion that Takaki's special message was in line with Japaense culture(with Messhugger even going to post several videos, list a piece of artwork, and namedrop a film to support his argument), you're the one making baseless and uninformed statements. If you have evidence that shows that such humor is out of line, post it and refute what we're saying.

 

Dude, follow your own advice. Read other peoples posts. if you don't believe me then believe Hurlshot....the Japanese would not be normally so sexist

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh don't misunderstand me, I am completely supportive of people saying what they want

 

But I  battle to accept a baseless and uninformed criticism and I will challenge that 

 

 

 

 

Trolls don't hide in closets, they hide under bridges. As much fun as it may be to illustrate Bruce's consistent hypocrisy and mutually exclusive positions it never, ever results in anything because he's either the most self acritical person in the known universe or he's doing it deliberately to get a reaction and to derail, in which case every reply gives him exactly what he wants and encourages rather than discourages/ gets him to reflect on anything.

 

Again, ignore or Ignore. There's nothing to be gained from engaging Bruce on this subject, if there were it would have happened in the previous 2400 (?) posts.

 

Zora can I ask you favor, can you stop constantly saying 

 

And once again another inaccurate "comparison " 

 

I have no issue with a debate but the sole contribution Zora makes is to feel the need to keep saying  " Bruce is a Troll " 

 

So this is directly related to me so once again another example of an inane comment  that I will sometimes respond to 

 

 

Of course it is completely accurate; once again you dismiss anything called upon you without any introspection. Ever wonder why no one takes you seriously and dismisses you as a troll to begin with? Because the lack of logical coherency in your claims? Because of lack of rationale? Because of avoiding any form of principle? 

 

You decide.

 

No, you just making these stupid criticisms about my posting etiquette and I  refuse to agree with you 

 

I'll just say this once so there is no doubt and I'm mentioning this so you don't feel the need to bring it up again. I don't care if you or anyone else doesn't take me seriously ....do you really think I could have stayed active on a thread like GG if I was expecting a serious discussion from everyone all the time. My reasons for making certain points are based on principle and I''m well aware many people don't agree so they find other ways to dismiss them...like " You don't have principle "  or ' you are SJ hypocrite because you go to strip clubs " 

 

You musn't worry about if people want to debate with me, I have plenty of interesting debates all the time

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

But I  battle to accept a baseless and uninformed criticism and I will challenge that

Seeing as you've offered no rebuttal to Messhugger and I's assertion that Takaki's special message was in line with Japaense culture(with Messhugger even going to post several videos, list a piece of artwork, and namedrop a film to support his argument), you're the one making baseless and uninformed statements. If you have evidence that shows that such humor is out of line, post it and refute what we're saying.

 

Dude, follow your own advice. Read other peoples posts. if you don't believe me then believe Hurlshot....the Japanese would not be normally so sexist

 

I've read all posts in this discussion and have found no evidence presented from anyone but Messhugger. I understand you rely more on feelz than facts, but you're going to have to provide some evidence that Japanese culture is not "normally so sexist" if you want to contest the points Messhugger and I have been making.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

But I  battle to accept a baseless and uninformed criticism and I will challenge that

Seeing as you've offered no rebuttal to Messhugger and I's assertion that Takaki's special message was in line with Japaense culture(with Messhugger even going to post several videos, list a piece of artwork, and namedrop a film to support his argument), you're the one making baseless and uninformed statements. If you have evidence that shows that such humor is out of line, post it and refute what we're saying.

 

Dude, follow your own advice. Read other peoples posts. if you don't believe me then believe Hurlshot....the Japanese would not be normally so sexist

 

I've read all posts in this discussion and have found no evidence presented from anyone but Messhugger. I understand you rely more on feelz than facts, but you're going to have to provide some evidence that Japanese culture is not "normally so sexist" if you want to contest the points Messhugger and I have been making.

 

 

edit:  I overloaded on the snark.  But I'm still not sure KaineParker should be our spokesperson on Japanese sexuality.  

 

KP, Hurlshot originally had a more detailed post. I wish he hadn't edited it because he is familiar with Japanese culture 

 

Just for the record I very seldom, if at all, rely on feelings. Almost all my views on based personal experiences and I can  substantiate them.

 

The Japanese are one of the most efficient, hard-working and industrialized nations in the world. I accept that there are issues of sexism in there culture but I find it hard to believe that corporations like Honda or Nintendo would allow a corporate update representing there company products and image to be linked with such a sexist update

 

So maybe I need to rephrase, some people in Japan would use such comments but most wouldn't 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

 

 

But I  battle to accept a baseless and uninformed criticism and I will challenge that

Seeing as you've offered no rebuttal to Messhugger and I's assertion that Takaki's special message was in line with Japaense culture(with Messhugger even going to post several videos, list a piece of artwork, and namedrop a film to support his argument), you're the one making baseless and uninformed statements. If you have evidence that shows that such humor is out of line, post it and refute what we're saying.

 

Dude, follow your own advice. Read other peoples posts. if you don't believe me then believe Hurlshot....the Japanese would not be normally so sexist

 

I've read all posts in this discussion and have found no evidence presented from anyone but Messhugger. I understand you rely more on feelz than facts, but you're going to have to provide some evidence that Japanese culture is not "normally so sexist" if you want to contest the points Messhugger and I have been making.

 

 

edit:  I overloaded on the snark.  But I'm still not sure KaineParker should be our spokesperson on Japanese sexuality.  

 

KP, Hurlshot originally had a more detailed post. I wish he hadn't edited it because he is familiar with Japanese culture

 

Then Hurlshot can come here and contest the point. As of now, no evidence contradicting that the Japanese have a very different understanding of sexuality than the West has been presented.

 

Just for the record I very seldom, if at all, rely on feelings. Almost all my views on based personal experiences and I can  substantiate them.

 

The Japanese are one of the most efficient, hard-working and industrialized nations in the world. I accept that there are issues of sexism in there culture but I find it hard to believe that corporations like Honda or Nintendo would allow a corporate update representing there company products and image to be linked with such a sexist update

 

So maybe I need to rephrase, some people in Japan would use such comments but most wouldn't

I understand you rely more on feelz than facts, but you're going to have to provide some evidence that Japanese culture is not "normally so sexist" if you want to contest the points Messhugger and I have been making.

Evidence or GTFO. What you believe doesn't count as proof.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

 

But I  battle to accept a baseless and uninformed criticism and I will challenge that

Seeing as you've offered no rebuttal to Messhugger and I's assertion that Takaki's special message was in line with Japaense culture(with Messhugger even going to post several videos, list a piece of artwork, and namedrop a film to support his argument), you're the one making baseless and uninformed statements. If you have evidence that shows that such humor is out of line, post it and refute what we're saying.

 

Dude, follow your own advice. Read other peoples posts. if you don't believe me then believe Hurlshot....the Japanese would not be normally so sexist

 

I've read all posts in this discussion and have found no evidence presented from anyone but Messhugger. I understand you rely more on feelz than facts, but you're going to have to provide some evidence that Japanese culture is not "normally so sexist" if you want to contest the points Messhugger and I have been making.

 

 

edit:  I overloaded on the snark.  But I'm still not sure KaineParker should be our spokesperson on Japanese sexuality.  

 

KP, Hurlshot originally had a more detailed post. I wish he hadn't edited it because he is familiar with Japanese culture

 

Then Hurlshot can come here and contest the point. As of now, no evidence contradicting that the Japanese have a very different understanding of sexuality than the West has been presented.

 

Just for the record I very seldom, if at all, rely on feelings. Almost all my views on based personal experiences and I can  substantiate them.

 

The Japanese are one of the most efficient, hard-working and industrialized nations in the world. I accept that there are issues of sexism in there culture but I find it hard to believe that corporations like Honda or Nintendo would allow a corporate update representing there company products and image to be linked with such a sexist update

 

So maybe I need to rephrase, some people in Japan would use such comments but most wouldn't

I understand you rely more on feelz than facts, but you're going to have to provide some evidence that Japanese culture is not "normally so sexist" if you want to contest the points Messhugger and I have been making.

Evidence or GTFO. What you believe doesn't count as proof.

 

 

You really not thinking logically about this, I have told you several times that mainstream Japanese corporations wouldn't  send an update like this

 

So of course I can't produce something that doesn't exist. So maybe you can prove me wrong by producing another update from a Japanese company that demonstrates the same level of insensitivity ?

 

But maybe we having the wrong debate, do you think the update was normal and acceptable ? 

[Hurlshort]

If Senran Kagura is a representation of Japanese sexuality, then Brazzers is a representation of American sexuality.  

 

 

In reality they are both extremely exaggerated, and really shouldn't be taken so seriously by either of you clowns.  And I mean clowns in the nicest way possible.  

[BruceVC]

If Senran Kagura is a representation of Japanese sexuality, then Brazzers is a representation of American sexuality.  

 

 

In reality they are both extremely exaggerated, and really shouldn't be taken so seriously by either of you clowns.  And I mean clowns in the nicest way possible.  

Yeah, so my point the whole time was this is not a accurate view of Japanese culture

 

But its better it comes from you as people just don't believe me on this thread when I say things but I'm not complaining...I know the reason why

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

If Senran Kagura is a representation of Japanese sexuality, then Brazzers is a representation of American sexuality.  

 

 

In reality they are both extremely exaggerated, and really shouldn't be taken so seriously by either of you clowns.  And I mean clowns in the nicest way possible.  

NSFW Video on Sex in Japanese Culture NSFW

 

At 1:04: "What the West would consider pornography is to them everyday entertainment".

 

A more apt comparison would be comparing Senran Kagura to some mainstream television show, such as Gossip Girl or CSI.

 

 

You really not thinking logically about this, I have told you several times that mainstream Japanese corporations wouldn't  send an update like this

A Japense corporation didn't, the fellow who has been involved in Senran Kagura from the start did. Since this special message appeared, we know for certain he did so. I don't see what corporations have to do with this.

 

So of course I can't produce something that doesn't exist.

So you can't prove your assertions. Good to know.

 

So maybe you can prove me wrong by producing another update from a Japanese company that demonstrates the same level of insensitivity ?

You're going to have to prove yourself right first. Perhaps if the outrage machine keeps after Bayonetta, we'll see something similar in Bayonetta 3.

 

But maybe we having the wrong debate, do you think the update was normal and acceptable ?

It's perfectly acceptable, an artist is announcing he is going to do what he likes. Why do you find this unacceptable?

Edited May 31, 2015 by KaineParker

[BruceVC]

 

If Senran Kagura is a representation of Japanese sexuality, then Brazzers is a representation of American sexuality.  

 

 

In reality they are both extremely exaggerated, and really shouldn't be taken so seriously by either of you clowns.  And I mean clowns in the nicest way possible.  

NSFW Video on Sex in Japanese Culture NSFW

 

At 1:04: "What the West would consider pornography is to them everyday entertainment".

 

A more apt comparison would be comparing Senran Kagura to some mainstream television show, such as Gossip Girl or CSI.

 

 

 

You really not thinking logically about this, I have told you several times that mainstream Japanese corporations wouldn't  send an update like this

A Japense corporation didn't, the fellow who has been involved in Senran Kagura from the start did. Since this special message appeared, we know for certain he was he did so.

 

So of course I can't produce something that doesn't exist.

So you can't prove your assertions. Good to know.

 

So maybe you can prove me wrong by producing another update from a Japanese company that demonstrates the same level of insensitivity ?

You're going to have to prove yourself right first.

 

But maybe we having the wrong debate, do you think the update was normal and acceptable ?

It's perfectly acceptable, an artist is announcing he is going to do what he likes. Why do you find this unacceptable?

 

 

Okay so I'm going to just focus on my view of the update and why it would be unacceptable for Japanese  corporations because that is the main reason I am saying corporate Japan wouldn't use a similar message  

 

It seems weird  to explain this as it seems obvious but

 

• he uses a comparison to women's breasts..completely inappropriate 
• he then uses a really juvenile personal view to describe various women's attributes 

He is the producer of the game, what he says will be seen in the context of what the company stands for. That is how corporations work

 

His two incongruous comments will reflect badly on him and therefore questions will be asked about the code of conduct that the company stands for  

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

he uses a comparison to women's breasts..completely inappropriate

Why?

 

he then uses a really juvenile personal view to describe various women's attributes

Why is it juvenile?

[cirdanx]

Yeah, so my point the whole time was this is not a accurate view of Japanese culture

 

 

hm. by your comments, you have no idea about japanese culture. you may stop now...

[BruceVC]

 

he uses a comparison to women's breasts..completely inappropriate

Why?

 

he then uses a really juvenile personal view to describe various women's attributes

Why is it juvenile?

 

Okay someone else will have to explain this point because I cannot seriously believe you think these types of comments would be acceptable in the corporate world or most other environments? 

[BruceVC]

 

Yeah, so my point the whole time was this is not a accurate view of Japanese culture

 

 

hm. by your comments, you have no idea about japanese culture. you may stop now...

 

 

Yeah...good points ...except for the fact I am right and this wouldn't be normal for corporations in Japan

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Okay someone else will have to explain this point because I cannot seriously believe you think these types of comments would be acceptable in the corporate world or most other environments?

That's not an answer, and a dodge transition from "Japanese culture" to "the corporate world". It's alright if you can't back up your points, just admit it and move on.

 

Yeah...good points ...except for the fact I am right and this wouldn't be normal for corporations in Japan

You're shifting the goal posts. Given the content in Anime, Japanse videogames, Japanse films and television, and other Japanse art comments such as those made by Takaki are not out of line with Japanese culture, more specifically Japanese pop-culture.

[BruceVC]

 

Okay someone else will have to explain this point because I cannot seriously believe you think these types of comments would be acceptable in the corporate world or most other environments?

That's not an answer, and a dodge transition from "Japanese culture" to "the corporate world". It's alright if you can't back up your points, just admit it and move on.

 

Yeah...good points ...except for the fact I am right and this wouldn't be normal for corporations in Japan

You're shifting the goal posts. Given the content in Anime, Japanse videogames, Japanse films and television, and other Japanse art comments such as those made by Takaki are not out of line with Japanese culture, more specifically Japanese pop-culture.

 

Okay let me try this again

 

 

This boils down to whether you think the update is insensitive or not. Lets say it is offensive then the majority of corporations wouldn't  use language like that because they are bound by codes of conducts which always say things like " we respect the rights of individuals and believe in a non-discriminatory environment "  

 

So how much is corporate part of a culture? It doens't reflect everything but for a country like Japan the corporations are very influential

 

 And I don't believe all the other Japanese entertainment you mentioned is as sexist as this....but I haven't researched this 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

This boils down to whether you think the update is insensitive or not. Lets say it is offensive then the majority of corporations wouldn't  use language like that because they are bound by codes of conducts which always say things like " we respect the rights of individuals and believe in a non-discriminatory environment "

How is it discriminatory or offensive IN JAPAN if it meshes with JAPANESE culture?

 

So how much is corporate part of a culture? It doens't reflect everything but for a country like Japan the corporations are very influential

This makes no sense. Corporations are fictional entities influenced by culture.

 

And I don't believe all the other Japanese entertainment you mentioned is as sexist as this....but I haven't researched this

Then you're arguing using feelz instead of knowledge.

Edited May 31, 2015 by KaineParker

[BruceVC]

 

This boils down to whether you think the update is insensitive or not. Lets say it is offensive then the majority of corporations wouldn't  use language like that because they are bound by codes of conducts which always say things like " we respect the rights of individuals and believe in a non-discriminatory environment "

How is it discriminatory IN JAPAN if it meshes with JAPANESE culture?

 

So how much is corporate part of a culture? It doens't reflect everything but for a country like Japan the corporations are very influential

This makes no sense. Corporations are fictional entities influenced by culture.

 

And I don't believe all the other Japanese entertainment you mentioned is as sexist as this....but I haven't researched this

Then you're arguing using feelz instead of knowledge.

 

No you don't understand, corporations aren't influenced by Japanese pop songs or controversial games. They have there own standards that govern them and yet they are part of Japanese culture. So you cannot say its " cultural " to have this type of sexism as corporations won't allow it 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

No you don't understand, corporations aren't influenced by Japanese pop songs or controversial games.

You're arguing that corporations aren't influenced by what they make money off of.

 

They have there own standards that govern them and yet they are part of Japanese culture.

Part of Culture =/= Defines Culture.

 

So you cannot say its " cultural " to have this type of sexism as corporations won't allow it

Seeing as I've posted a video documenting how sex is viewed in JAPANESE CULTURE, I certainly can say it's cultural.

 

Again, if you can prove that Takaki's comments are out of place in JAPANESE CULTURE, please do so.

[Calax]

Do we really think that a culture that's relatively open about their sexuality, especially in comparison to America, wouldn't produce somebody who derides the viewpoints of his detractors in verse?

 

The same culture that produces the Kanamara Matsuri, and only has laws surrounding the display of human genitalia (and from what I've heard, a thing for panties) because of American involvment in post WW2 restructuring of their society to bring it more in line with "our" western sensabilities.

 

Bruce, the guys point is that he prefers busty lasses with nice asses and if you've got a problem with that you're not his audience. The guys behind Onichanbara are probably the same. If you think it's disrespectful for him to say "**** are life, ass is hometown" realize he's making a game that's built on eye candy and humor. Similar to Onichanbara:Bikini Samurai Squad (yes it's a real thing), or even Bayonetta.

 

Would you have preferred him capitulate to american media demand and stop making these games? To self Censor because *gasp* somebody might get offended!? I'm not entirely sure what you want from a guy who's series produced this image.

 

 

[kirottu]

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Either McIntosh is a level 50 troll or he's insane.

[Hurlshort]

I'm not sure why the guy would bother playing games then.  

[Namutree]

I'm not sure why the guy would bother playing games then.  

He plays them to expose their toxic masculinity and the inherent misogyny of fun so that they can be changed from entertainment into slightly interactive political propaganda.

[BruceVC]

Do we really think that a culture that's relatively open about their sexuality, especially in comparison to America, wouldn't produce somebody who derides the viewpoints of his detractors in verse?

 

The same culture that produces the Kanamara Matsuri, and only has laws surrounding the display of human genitalia (and from what I've heard, a thing for panties) because of American involvment in post WW2 restructuring of their society to bring it more in line with "our" western sensabilities.

 

Bruce, the guys point is that he prefers busty lasses with nice asses and if you've got a problem with that you're not his audience. The guys behind Onichanbara are probably the same. If you think it's disrespectful for him to say "**** are life, ass is hometown" realize he's making a game that's built on eye candy and humor. Similar to Onichanbara:Bikini Samurai Squad (yes it's a real thing), or even Bayonetta.

 

Would you have preferred him capitulate to american media demand and stop making these games? To self Censor because *gasp* somebody might get offended!? I'm not entirely sure what you want from a guy who's series produced this image.

 

 

 

I have no issue with someone liking busty women  and appreciating the features of a women  but I am still surprised you guys cannot understand why it is unacceptable for the producer of a game to send an email that so publicly and crassly  describes this appreciation of women. Its not what you say..its how you say it 

 

And they can  produce any game they want that they think appeals to a certain demographic...that's not the issue

Edited May 31, 2015 by BruceVC