Macedonian conflict (Ukraine Redux)

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

 

Elerond !!!!

 

No one speaks Finnish on these forums...you know that , that language is just impossible to understand 

 

Here advanced course to spoken Finnish...

 

 

 

   

 

 

* Links were meant to only for Meshugger who in my knowledge knows Finnish and lives in Finland, which is why he referenced largest Finnish Newspaper , when he said that he didn't find any news about the conflict. 

** Also i made English summary of those news in my post before those links

_{*** Sorry the of topic}

 

 

Finland needs to abolish finnish and change it back to the swedish like the one Snellman talked. Just like God intended. 

 

Finnish can be a curiosity like Gaelic. 

 

 

@ Meshugger 

 

Do you and Elerond both live in Helsinki?

 

 

I currently live in Tampere, which is third biggest city in Finland that locates bit under 200km north from Helsinki. I don't have any knowledge where Meshugger lives, but from his suggestion I would guess that he lives somewhere where those some demon language (Swedish) speaking bättre folk (Swedish speaking Finns) live.   

 

 

Asun suomessa jossakin...ja veden lähellä tietysti. Jos on lammen, joen tai meren lähellä en viitti sanoa.

[BruceVC]

 

 

I was waiting for someone here to post some links for context, but I guess there are no such links in English-speaking media. I went to try and find a summary and mostly failed (my Google-Fu is weak ).

 

WARNING: strong anti-United Statian slant. Viewer discretion is advised.

 

http://thesaker.is/special-report-on-the-escalating-situation-in-macedonia/

 

I'm... quite confused after reading that. Apparently the author thinks ultimately it's the US doing... something, for... reasons. This mirrors Sarex' tone in the OP, so I guess it's a common view in the Balkans? I'm literally clueless as to what's going on. Some clarification, please?

 

I'm going to be honest and say I don't know, I watch 4 major international news channels and only CNN mentioned it briefly...which is weird because normally this type of story is on Al-Jazeera at least...it may be now so I will check 

 

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32695909

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32686628

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32680904

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32679984

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/11/macedonia-violence-nikola-gruevski-government

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/10/macedonia-police-alleged-armed-group-balkans-kumanovo

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/10/macedonia-police-idUSL5N0Y00LP20150510

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/11/us-macedonia-crisis-storm-idUSKBN0NW19120150511

 

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/europe/article4436829.ece

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/11/world/europe/macedonia-22-killed-as-police-and-militants-clash.html

 

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_MACEDONIA_SHOOTINGS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

 

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-1235381

 

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/05/09/macedonia-3-police-officers-dead-20-injured-in-clashes-with-armed-group-in-city/

 

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/05/nato-eu-call-calm-macedonia-150510182019133.html

 

http://www.wsj.com/articles/macedonia-clashes-leave-eight-police-officers-14-gunmen-dead-1431267177

http://www.wsj.com/articles/eu-nato-u-n-call-for-calm-in-macedonia-1431365446

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/5-police-killed-clash-armed-group-macedonia-n356616

 

 

I should have known not to ask that type of question when you are around ....well played sir 

 

Okay so the truth must therefore must  be that I just don't particularly care about this event that much which is why I haven't been researching it in more detail 

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

 

Elerond !!!!

 

No one speaks Finnish on these forums...you know that , that language is just impossible to understand 

 

Here advanced course to spoken Finnish...

 

 

 

   

 

 

* Links were meant to only for Meshugger who in my knowledge knows Finnish and lives in Finland, which is why he referenced largest Finnish Newspaper , when he said that he didn't find any news about the conflict. 

** Also i made English summary of those news in my post before those links

_{*** Sorry the of topic}

 

 

Finland needs to abolish finnish and change it back to the swedish like the one Snellman talked. Just like God intended. 

 

Finnish can be a curiosity like Gaelic. 

 

 

@ Meshugger 

 

Do you and Elerond both live in Helsinki?

 

 

I currently live in Tampere, which is third biggest city in Finland that locates bit under 200km north from Helsinki. I don't have any knowledge where Meshugger lives, but from his suggestion I would guess that he lives somewhere where those some demon language (Swedish) speaking bättre folk (Swedish speaking Finns) live.   

 

 

Asun suomessa jossakin...ja veden lähellä tietysti. Jos on lammen, joen tai meren lähellä en viitti sanoa.

 

Guys remember most of us can't speak Finnish.....English please

 

What did you say Meshugger ?

[213374U]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32695909

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32686628

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32680904

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32679984

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/11/macedonia-violence-nikola-gruevski-government

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/10/macedonia-police-alleged-armed-group-balkans-kumanovo

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/10/macedonia-police-idUSL5N0Y00LP20150510

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/11/us-macedonia-crisis-storm-idUSKBN0NW19120150511

 

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/europe/article4436829.ece

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/11/world/europe/macedonia-22-killed-as-police-and-militants-clash.html

 

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_MACEDONIA_SHOOTINGS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

 

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-1235381

 

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/05/09/macedonia-3-police-officers-dead-20-injured-in-clashes-with-armed-group-in-city/

 

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/05/nato-eu-call-calm-macedonia-150510182019133.html

 

http://www.wsj.com/articles/macedonia-clashes-leave-eight-police-officers-14-gunmen-dead-1431267177

http://www.wsj.com/articles/eu-nato-u-n-call-for-calm-in-macedonia-1431365446

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/5-police-killed-clash-armed-group-macedonia-n356616

 

Well, most of those are simple press releases and some are even behind paywalls. I was hoping more for a piece going a bit more in-depth explaining the overarching situation and how the raid fits in the larger scheme of things. Have you seen anything like that in the Finnish press? Over here is like total blackout (as usual). Thanks, at any rate.

[Elerond]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Elerond !!!!

 

No one speaks Finnish on these forums...you know that , that language is just impossible to understand 

 

Here advanced course to spoken Finnish...

 

 

 

   

 

 

* Links were meant to only for Meshugger who in my knowledge knows Finnish and lives in Finland, which is why he referenced largest Finnish Newspaper , when he said that he didn't find any news about the conflict. 

** Also i made English summary of those news in my post before those links

_{*** Sorry the of topic}

 

 

Finland needs to abolish finnish and change it back to the swedish like the one Snellman talked. Just like God intended. 

 

Finnish can be a curiosity like Gaelic. 

 

 

@ Meshugger 

 

Do you and Elerond both live in Helsinki?

 

 

I currently live in Tampere, which is third biggest city in Finland that locates bit under 200km north from Helsinki. I don't have any knowledge where Meshugger lives, but from his suggestion I would guess that he lives somewhere where those some demon language (Swedish) speaking bättre folk (Swedish speaking Finns) live.   

 

 

Asun suomessa jossakin...ja veden lähellä tietysti. Jos on lammen, joen tai meren lähellä en viitti sanoa.

 

Guys remember most of us can't speak Finnish.....English please

 

What did you say Meshugger ?

 

 

He said: "I live somewhere in Finland... and of course near water. If that is near pound, river or sea I don't care to tell" (that specification that he lives near water dosen't narrow the area anyway as there isn't residential area in Finland that isn't near to water)

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Elerond !!!!

 

No one speaks Finnish on these forums...you know that , that language is just impossible to understand 

 

Here advanced course to spoken Finnish...

 

 

 

   

 

 

* Links were meant to only for Meshugger who in my knowledge knows Finnish and lives in Finland, which is why he referenced largest Finnish Newspaper , when he said that he didn't find any news about the conflict. 

** Also i made English summary of those news in my post before those links

_{*** Sorry the of topic}

 

 

Finland needs to abolish finnish and change it back to the swedish like the one Snellman talked. Just like God intended. 

 

Finnish can be a curiosity like Gaelic. 

 

 

@ Meshugger 

 

Do you and Elerond both live in Helsinki?

 

 

I currently live in Tampere, which is third biggest city in Finland that locates bit under 200km north from Helsinki. I don't have any knowledge where Meshugger lives, but from his suggestion I would guess that he lives somewhere where those some demon language (Swedish) speaking bättre folk (Swedish speaking Finns) live.   

 

 

Asun suomessa jossakin...ja veden lähellä tietysti. Jos on lammen, joen tai meren lähellä en viitti sanoa.

 

Guys remember most of us can't speak Finnish.....English please

 

What did you say Meshugger ?

 

 

He said: "I live somewhere in Finland... and of course near water. If that is near pound, river or sea I don't care to tell" (that specification that he lives near water dosen't narrow the area anyway as there isn't residential area in Finland that isn't near to water)

 

 

I used a Finnish to English translator...check how it translated 

 

" I live in Finland somewhere ... and near water, of course. If there is a pond, river or near the sea, I say, give me a break " 

[kgambit]

 

<snip>

 

Well, most of those are simple press releases and some are even behind paywalls. I was hoping more for a piece going a bit more in-depth explaining the overarching situation and how the raid fits in the larger scheme of things. Have you seen anything like that in the Finnish press? Over here is like total blackout (as usual). Thanks, at any rate.

 

 

 

This is one link I could find that might be related and it dates back over a year.   

 

http://globalvoicesonline.org/2014/07/03/albanian-activists-condemn-terrorist-murder-verdict-in-macedonia/  which links back to this:

 

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/macedonia-albanian-activists-slam-terrorism-murder-sentences

 

I'm still exploring that second link and the site in general .... 

Edited May 12, 2015 by kgambit

[Meshugger]

It seems like Bruce's translator is not that context-sensitive.

 

As for the crisis. Didn't Greece just recently pay their debts one day before they were supposed to? Maybe this is an area worth exploring if it is related to this crisis.

[Ineth]

Asun suomessa jossakin...ja veden lähellä tietysti. Jos on lammen, joen tai meren lähellä en viitti sanoa.

 

 

 

[Gfted1]

Google translate was even worse:

 

"I live in Finland, one of the ... and close to the water, of course. If you have a pond, river or sea, near I say a break."

 

[BruceVC]

Google translate was even worse:

 

"I live in Finland, one of the ... and close to the water, of course. If you have a pond, river or sea, near I say a break."

 

 

 

Irrefutable proof of how hard Finnish is to comprehend for mortal man 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I believe Finnish is actually made up and they really speak English.

 

This applies to any language that isn't English.

[Meshugger]

When ordering two cups of tea to room number 32 at his hotel, the finnish gentleman says in his perfect english: "too tee to toutetoo"

 

I am so sorry Sarex for the derailment

[Zoraptor]

I'm... quite confused after reading that. Apparently the author thinks ultimately it's the US doing... something, for... reasons. This mirrors Sarex' tone in the OP, so I guess it's a common view in the Balkans? I'm literally clueless as to what's going on. Some clarification, please?

The general reasons are pretty much as Sarex said- the current macedonian gov is seen as being pro russian and a lot of pressure has been applied to scupper the southstream gas pipeline which was going to go through Bulgaria until they cancelled citing EU/US pressure. Its alternative is currently going through Turkey/ Greece/ Mac/ Serbia/ Hungary, iirc. Those countries are being targeted to stop it, and Mac is the easiest target due to its inherent instability.

 

It doesn't (or does, facpov) help things that Mac is an ethnic hodge podge of Bulgars, Albanians, Greeks and others and that Kosovo, pretty much a NATO puppet state is next door and the insurgents seem to have come from there and be ex KLA. They've also had a rather odd scandal for monitoring lots of people, given 5 Eyes and Snowden there's certain suspicion that the response is being massaged by outsiders as a way to attack the government, plus there have tended to be the sort of weaseling that was seen in Kiev re casualties, ie there were a surprising number of police injuries/ deaths formpeaceful protests and lack of unequivocal condemnation of the Kosovan albanian armed incursion.

 

Whether that's accurate as a view is certainly questionable in the details, though it seems very likely indeed that few tears would be shed if the Mac government goes in either Brussels or Washington.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Zoraptor

[Enoch]

I'm... quite confused after reading that. Apparently the author thinks ultimately it's the US doing... something, for... reasons. This mirrors Sarex' tone in the OP, so I guess it's a common view in the Balkans? I'm literally clueless as to what's going on. Some clarification, please?

 

It's a common view in troubled nations throughout the world.  If you asked folks in such places to list things that would make the quality of life in their country better, "decisive action by the United States" would consistently be in the top-5, and they wouldn't be wrong.  Further, if you asked them why that hasn't happened yet, the tendency is to dismiss the real answer ("this country is not important enough for the U.S. to have a reason to care much about what happens here") and delve into conspiratorial thinking. 

 

 

While jockeying to contain Russian expansionism is of significant concern to the U.S. national security establishment, as a general matter, Russian petrochemical projects are of far more interest to Europe than they are to America.  The U.S. is happy enough with their current anti-Russia play (i.e., riding the North American fracking boom and working with their clients in the House of Saud to keep prices low enough to starve Russia (and Iran) of revenue) that they're not especially motivated into serious action on every potential pipeline project. 

Edited May 13, 2015 by Enoch

[Sarex]

It's a common view in troubled nations throughout the world.  If you asked folks in such places to list things that would make the quality of life in their country better, "decisive action by the United States" would consistently be in the top-5, and they wouldn't be wrong.

 

Our quality of life would be much better if the west just turned their back for like a year. We would bring so much peace and freedom to our neighbors.

 

Like this we have Bosnia that is pretty much a sleeper cell, and Kosovo that is the hub of drug import and black market in Europe, not to mention the Yellow Houses (for which they deserve the cruelest and harshest punishments)...