Game requires hold position command for tanks

[Narla]

 I mean for real, how often has the tank suddenly decided to run away from the position it's assigned to and messed up a whole battle strategy? And it can happen for a couple reasons: it's current target is moved by one of the push skills, it's current target dies and the closest enemy is far or the first enemy to attack it is a ranged enemy.

 

 But what's really important is that it's really super frustrating, and means that sometimes i'll end up tanking with a bow rather then 1h+shield to avoid dealing with this. Otherwise I need to have split second accuracy on pausing to stop my tank from running somewhere for some reason.

[the streaker]

Turn off the option of auto-attacking when inactive, then hit X during battle if he's moving somewhere or in the process of attacking.

[luzarius]

 I mean for real, how often has the tank suddenly decided to run away from the position it's assigned to and messed up a whole battle strategy? And it can happen for a couple reasons: it's current target is moved by one of the push skills, it's current target dies and the closest enemy is far or the first enemy to attack it is a ranged enemy.

 

 But what's really important is that it's really super frustrating, and means that sometimes i'll end up tanking with a bow rather then 1h+shield to avoid dealing with this. Otherwise I need to have split second accuracy on pausing to stop my tank from running somewhere for some reason.

 

I agree with you entirely.  On POTD, TOI, there is hardly room for error, the last thing you want to deal with is the tank automatically moving and breaking that wall formation.  When the tank automatically moves, you have to move him back into position and the risk of a disengage free attack from the enemy.

 

King Leonidas: "A single weak spot and the phalanx shatters".

 

I've tried the disable auto-attack, but for some odd reason it isn't reliable.

 

* Hold position would be ideal and keep in mind it's not a new concept.

* Hold position was also in Dragon Age Origins.

 

If POE doesn't have hold position, then perhaps POE 2 will gain this feature.

Edited May 9, 2015 by luzarius

[Narla]

 Both auto-attack option off and pause on kill option on are unreliable to keep the tank in place. The easiest to demonstate is to use winter wind on an enemy engaed by a tank, he will follow it wherever the enemy ends up. But also for the other mentioned cases (tank moving after target killed) regardless of those options, and even a few steps can ruin a strategy if say the tank steps into a chill cloud/tanglefoot/etc.

[the streaker]

How is it unreliable? Winter wind will consistently push a target away, and the fighter will consistently chase the pushed target. Failing to account for this is the failure of the player, not the game. I get that it's too much micro, but then you're playing a 6-man party with almost zero automation, where you have to order each character's every move. This is to be expected, right?

[Narla]

That was an example to show how to reliably make it happen. What happened to me earlier that made me unhappy enough to make this post was when my cypher used Amplified Thrust to push an enemy that had slipped behind my tank but that enemy died while the missile was traveling to my chanter (who was setting up a stun invocation), so instead of pushing that enemy away, Amplified Thrust jumped to the enemy the tank was focusing, pushed it away, the tank followed, ate 3 engagement break attacks, died, and I almost got wiped for a game over.

 

 This was the most frustrating so far, but less frustrating examples are happening pretty frequently.

[Crucis]

Turn off the option of auto-attacking when inactive, then hit X during battle if he's moving somewhere or in the process of attacking.

 

The old IE Hold Position command was MUCH simpler and effective.

[luzarius]

You guys want to know what I do half the time to deal with the issue of not being able to issue a hold position command?

 

I select Eder, Bear Companion & Kana and then set them to NOT attack, they literally just stand there doing nothing while soaking up hits. This way the shield/meat wall is intact to protect durance, aloth & my character in the back.

 

The best way to ensure the shield/meat wall stays intact is to make sure your tanks NEVER attack, select them hit X and just leave them there standing and taking damage.

 

I don't know if this issue is a big deal, hypothetically if Eder attacks, it won't matter. He has the ruffian weapon focus which isn't useful. I have him wielding a hatchet, so it's not like hitting with a hatchet is actually going to hurt anything on POTD difficulty.  So if he just stands there doing nothing, he is serving his purpose by tanking and taking hits, doesn't matter if he hits the enemy back lol.

Edited May 9, 2015 by luzarius

[Crucis]

You guys want to know what I do half the time to deal with the issue of not being able to issue a hold position command?

 

I select Eder, Bear Companion & Kana and then set them to NOT attack, they literally just stand there doing nothing while soaking up hits. This way the shield/meat wall is intact to protect durance, aloth & my character in the back.

 

The best way to ensure the shield/meat wall stays intact is to make sure your tanks NEVER attack, select them hit X and just leave them there standing and taking damage.

 

I don't know if this issue is a big deal, hypothetically if Eder attacks, it won't matter. He has the ruffian weapon focus which isn't useful. I have him wielding a hatchet, so it's not like hitting with a hatchet is actually going to hurt anything on POTD difficulty.  So if he just stands there doing nothing, he is serving his purpose by tanking and taking hits, doesn't matter if he hits the enemy back lol.

 

Ruffian not useful?  Are you nuts?  It's a very good WF.  Sabers are supposedly the best 1H weapon, and Clubs are a great blunt 1H weapon alternative.  There's an excellent "Superb" unique club that I've given Eder every time to go with whatever Saber I have him using.  Plus Ruffian gives him pistols and blunderbusses, one of which makes for a really good opening strike weapon for Eder.

 

[View619]

I'm actually surprised that 1.05 didn't include this. It should have been in 1.0 tbh, especially with all the combat path-finding issues.

[Luckmann]

Known issue, has been suggested since beta, but no dice. I think you're supposed to train your pausing reflexes or something.

I would prefer it if *no* characters moved unless specifically told to do so either by movement- or attack-command. Far more important than any auto-attack limitation that only tends to screw things up anyway.

[qualiyah]

I strongly agree with this proposal. I had been playing kind of carelessly, and then when I finally got around to using some real strategy and setting things up so the tanks protected everyone else, I kept seeing Eder run off after some enemy and ruin the whole thing.

 

I don't mind that there's no real AI for your party members; I don't mind having to issue commands constantly so they do the right thing; I don't even very much mind having to pause to get all my dudes to stop attacking Aloth every time he gets charmed. But permanently ruining the entirety of my battle strategy because I can't pause instantaneously and Eder decides to chase someone--that's too much.

 

I suppose I could have Eder just stand there without attacking, but the fact that that's even an appealing or reasonable option just shows how badly broken the system is if there's no hold-in-place mechanism.

[Concordance]

It's bizarre that we're at 1.05, and this feature is still not in. Characters breaking formation caused me so much grief on Hard, I can't imagine playing PotD until it's added.

[jpersinne]

Yeah, it's a bit odd that Obsidian didn't consider this. It certainly messes with tactics in a horrible way.

 

I wouldn't hold my breath for it changing any time soon, though. That code seems to be entangled with the engagement code in an unfortunate; fixing it is likely not as simple as it sounds.

[Zwiebelchen]

I agree. Game needs a hold position command.

 

This is basic strategy game 101. I wonder how the devs missed that. Even the IE games had one.

[peddroelm]

"X" "X"  .. "X" learn to harness the unlimited power of the almighty letter "X" ..

[Narla]

 Thanks to the posters of this thread I have become a much better player of this game as disabling auto-attack and leaving my frontline blockers on "x" button mode (never in attack mode) after every skill means that i can precisely position my tanks and use their abilities, so they work for my purposes, even if it sucks a huge lot to lose all my tanks damage.

[peddroelm]

took me a while to figure another thing .. Using waypoints (shift) around engagement range to get flanks .. Is quite satifying when it works ..

 

Also you don't need to waste tank DPS .. Pause when they're about to jump out of position , select and "X" .. When enemy in range or ifs afe to do so - order to move and attack (with waypoints if needed) ..

Edited May 18, 2015 by peddroelm

[manageri]

If they just made it so that characters don't move to engage a new target when the old one dies, this issue would be reduced like 95%. That's how it worked in NWN2 and I very rarely had this issue in that game.

 

Edit: And to lessen the cases where that would lead to the tank doing nothing at all, there really should already be an icon on the portraits indicating what the character is doing, or at least indicating that they are doing nothing at all.

Edited May 18, 2015 by manageri

[Drath]

 

The old IE Hold Position command was MUCH simpler and effective.

 

 

Yep, I remember using that and it was indeed a nice option to have. I have the same issue as well with characters getting out of position (going forward to hit another target when the opponent in front is dead). While I do feel that using "AutoPause on Target Destroyed" helps a bit, it would be great to see Hold Position again. 

 

 

Known issue, has been suggested since beta, but no dice. I think you're supposed to train your pausing reflexes or something.

 

Lol, so do we get an achievement at the end for it? Fastest pauser in the Eora? 

Edited May 18, 2015 by Drath

[Luckmann]

 Thanks to the posters of this thread I have become a much better player of this game as disabling auto-attack and leaving my frontline blockers on "x" button mode (never in attack mode) after every skill means that i can precisely position my tanks and use their abilities, so they work for my purposes, even if it sucks a huge lot to lose all my tanks damage.

 

This is probably the best solution. Tanks doesn't really deal that much damage anyway, they're there to just block the opponents and soak up damage.