Why hate being a watcher?

[Nonor_Battlehammer]

Throughout the game I have options to tell people how I think the watcher thing is a curse, even though I don’t choose that option, some times it is forced upon me. It breaks my immersion every time, I created a wizard and though "hey put lore to max and this guy will be obsessed with knowledge" so being a watcher sounds awesome looking into souls learning the past and I am bossed with knowledge so the risk seems worth it.

Every time my character starts a rant about how he hates the curse I am like "why??????" (I just alt+tab after this happened for the 12th time). Why can’t we have an option to like being a watcher, besides maerwald we don’t see any other evidence of people going too crazy.

Anyone else felt that hate of being a watcher was a bit forced?

[Guest]

The dialog with Maerwald at the end of Act I is supposed to pretty much cement the fact that "Awakened Watcher" is basically a long, torturous death sentence. Don't know many people that wouldn't see that as a Bad Thing.

[Karkarov]

Being a Watcher would be fine, if he wasn't also awakened and force to see his own old soul.

[Nonor_Battlehammer]

But there are many instances in the game in wich watchers are talked about as reasonable people, the dwarf lady was OK, and besides the vision of thalos we don see any other weird stuff. And maerwald tell you that is because he let anyone into his mind, that he tried to talk to all of them.

[Guest]

You're missing the "Awakened" part in both replies.

 

Awakening isn't something you choose, it just happens. This is pointed out multiple times. Therefore, it isn't that Maerwald "let" anything happen, it's that he found himself in the unfortunate position of being both Awakened and a Watcher...just like you.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Achilles

[Voss]

Unfortunately the game isn't particularly convincing about this, and the resolution of the whole thing is... lacking.  Apparently having  someone repeat a stupid argument to you in person in addition to soul memory lets you get over going mad. 

[Heijoushin]

As others have said, Watchers eventually go mad. But this was a weak thing to drive the plot, since most players find it fun to be a watcher. I suppose they wanted a very personal motivation, so you could conceivably play an evil character, but I would have much preferred a straightforward "cure the hollowborn" plot (since there's not much room to be evil anyway)

 

It also broke my immersion. You arrived at Giled Vale and get questioned by that painful deputy guy, right? I didn't want to tell him anything (since its obvious he's hanging suspicious people) and yet to advance the plot you have to ask him about soul specialists!

Edited April 21, 2015 by Heijoushin

[Dadalama]

As others have said, Watchers eventually go mad. But this was a weak thing to drive the plot, since most players find it fun to be a watcher. I suppose they wanted a very personal motivation, so you could conceivably play an evil character, but I would have much preferred a straightforward "cure the hollowborn" plot (since there's not much room to be evil anyway)

 

It also broke my immersion. You arrived at Giled Vale and get questioned by that painful deputy guy, right? I didn't want to tell him anything (since its obvious he's hanging suspicious people) and yet to advance the plot you have to ask him about soul specialists!

Not all watchers, just the one's that awaken their own past lives.

[NathanH]

Supposedly you're having nightmares every night and barely sleeping, but you only find out about this when Eder tells you you're having nightmares every night and barely sleeping, It's pretty odd. Th game doesn't communicate this very well.

[Guest]

Supposedly you're having nightmares every night and barely sleeping, but you only find out about this when Eder tells you you're having nightmares every night and barely sleeping, It's pretty odd. Th game doesn't communicate this very well.

Eder isn't the only one, but it is kinda funny how you reference how the game communicates this and then state that it really doesn't

[Luckmann]

The dialog with Maerwald at the end of Act I is supposed to pretty much cement the fact that "Awakened Watcher" is basically a long, torturous death sentence. Don't know many people that wouldn't see that as a Bad Thing.

 

If that's what that dialogue is supposed to do, then it does a really, really, really piss-poor job of doing it. Not only can you object to it quite reasonably, but I always interpreted Maerwald's situation as near-unique. The entire buildup in Caed Nua has to do with Mearwald's very unique situation in having been involved in events relating to his soul's own, deeply traumatic, personal tragedies.

 

There's nothing at all that happens there that has anything to do with you specifically, and nothing saying that this happens to all Watchers.

 

Being a Watcher would be fine, if he wasn't also awakened and force to see his own old soul.

 

The difference between Awakened and Watcher does not come across properly, especially in the early game. Exactly what made you into which isn't clear either, afaik. I was entirely under the impression that Watchers aren't actually awakened, but can still see their (and others) souls, whether in their current or previous incarnations, while Awakened are simply those that have manifested their own old lives through their soul.

 

Eder isn't the only one, but it is kinda funny how you reference how the game communicates this and then state that it really doesn't

 

The game does not communicate this appropriately. The only common indication that you're having "nightmares" is the odd swirly adra thing that shows up sometimes when you make camp. And even so, nightmares? Pshaw, that's hardly a reason for concern. Some people have night-terrors their whole lives.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Luckmann

[Heijoushin]

Yup, I agree with the above post. In fact, now that I think about it, why does that funny machine even turn you into a watcher? (or awaken you?) It's all pretty vague.

 

And while we're nitpicking, how come the main character never eats those berries or drinks the water to fix their stomach bug in act 1?

[Luckmann]

Yup, I agree with the above post. In fact, now that I think about it, why does that funny machine even turn you into a watcher? (or awaken you?) It's all pretty vague.

 

And while we're nitpicking, how come the main character never eats those berries or drinks the water to fix their stomach bug in act 1?

 

Going further into the game, it is my interpretation that what caused you to become Awakened was that the machine causes Biawacs - hence the increasing amount of Biawacs in Dyrwood - and that it was the Biawac that awakened you, after you survived a traumatic event that shatters most souls and drags them to the wheel (or whatever).

 

Why did this make you a Watcher though? No idea. At first I thought it was one and the same thing, but Aloth has an Awakened soul, and several other people in the game, and none of them are also Watchers. There's a good argument for the theory that all Watchers are Awakened, but not all Awakened become Watchers. I think you need to be in a situation where you "look beyond the veil" or "peer behind the curtain", such as seeing a biawac rip souls off - to become a Watcher, and that being a Watcher, being able to see the souls of others and yourself, sorta makes you awakened by default (since you can, on some level or another, interact with your own soul).

 

None of this suggests that Watcher become irreversibly insane, though. There's mention in the game of other Watchers beyond yourself and Maerwald, too, and I haven't seen anything suggesting they go mad.

[Yria]

The dwarf lady on the tree explain this whole becoming a Watcher thing as our character "having seen past the Shroud", in other words - seeing the world in a way that only the souls that have already left the body can see it. And after that, he simply remembered how to look to see all this hidden stuff. My guess is that when the biawac tried to lift his soul, it left the body for a moment, so he "saw past the Shroud", in Caldara's words. 

I think you need to be in a situation where you "look beyond the veil" or "peer behind the curtain", such as seeing a biawac rip souls off - to become a Watcher, and that being a Watcher, being able to see the souls of others and yourself, sorta makes you awakened by default (since you can, on some level or another, interact with your own soul).

But Maerwald didn't Awaken the same moment he became a Watcher, it took him quite a while to remember his past lifes. Perhaps for many Watchers that moment of Awakening never comes at all? For all we know, the PC's Awakening might not be even connected to becoming a Watcher: could be, he saw Thaos and the Engwithan machine, that brought back the memories, and then the biawac tried to rip his soul off making him a Watcher.

[mrmonocle]

the whole watcher concept is the weakest joint in this game. A weak Deus Ex Machina kind of element.

[gkathellar]

What's weird is that it's not even consistent. There are dialogues where you can say, "nope, I don't see this as a problem." And you stop seeing random execution images after the first couple of maps, so ... yeah, it's weird.

[Elerond]

It is said in game that being awakened and watcher means that you eventually lose control of yourself over your past lives and you can't do anything to prevent that. It don't mean that you lose your mind, even though it seem like that for other people.

 

Being awakened is not that bad and it seem not to be that uncommon in Eora, like for example Aloth is awakened, but he don't have same problems that you have even though his past self takes over sometimes. It is also hinted that Aloth is somewhat special case. Also Thanos is awakened and he seems to be able to work normally, although some people would argue that he is bat **** crazy.

 

Watcher is ability to see past lives of others and in some case experience them by yourself, end game also implies that with enough power watcher can manipulate souls and even destroy them at will.

 

Through the game PC seems first to be bit disoriented by their ordeals and only seek to make sure that they are OK, but when PC learns more and experiences more (especially dreams that aren't shown or told always to player) they start to get worried over their condition, and this is not helped by fact that most entities that have some knowledge about your condition seems to think that you are doomed and many even say that there is no cure, which seems to drive PC become more determined to find Thanos, which is probably also influenced by PC's past life as inquisitor and past life's relationship with Iovara. Although depending on what PC does these things aren't portrayed to player in most clear ways and this was not helped by some bugs that made it possible to PC to skip over some storyline in way that isn't logical or coherent and in some cases possibility to multiple choices in same plot point which made especially Journal look bit weird.  

[Yria]

Thaos is somewhat a special case, He's not just awakened, he retained the same personality through all those lives. It's not like Aloth and Iselmyr, who are absolutely different people and are obviously annoyed by each other's ways. In Thaos' case it looks more like recovering from amnesia than being awakened. 

Btw, Aloth might be okay because he didn't regain any of Iselmyr's memories. Who knows what could happen if he had actually remembered his life as that woman, seen some of her choices that he might disapprove of, etc. 

Edited April 21, 2015 by Yria

[Gallenger]

I take it a bit differently, you awaken *first* and then become a watcher as a result. 

 

The machine itself doesn't awaken you nor does the Biawac.  What awakens your soul is seeing Thaos carry out that particular ritual at *that* particular machine - because you had been present for (or directly participated in) such a ritual at that very site before when you were grand inquisitor.   That's why you see all the torture devices - because that's what you did on the reg., to people who didn't repent properly. 

 

Most people just presume you're a watcher, excepting Aloth - not that you're awakened, and that remembering your past life, has also granted you the ability to see lost spirits. 

 

The Dwarf lady hanging from the tree says as much to you - that your soul has remembered what it was to walk around without a body, so you've suddenly gained the ability to see it.   She's simply not aware that a lot of your visions are tied to your past life.  Nor is the player really, they just assume, I imagine, it's stuff that's supposed to be kinda creepy.  All the torture scene stuff isn't just random visions you get it's stuff that your past life did, regularly. 

Edited April 21, 2015 by Gallenger

[Luckmann]

What's weird is that it's not even consistent. There are dialogues where you can say, "nope, I don't see this as a problem." And you stop seeing random execution images after the first couple of maps, so ... yeah, it's weird.

 

The execution pictures and such is... yeah. There's nothing really.. bad about it, either, it's just.. isn't that what you'd expect to see, anyway?

 

Also, I just realized that Defiance Bay appears to be completely devoid of this stuff, despite the fact that Defiance Bay should be a massive nexus, a humongous cluster of souls, compared to the random roads of Dyrwood. Ondra's Gift should send you reeling.

 

But there's nothing.

[Namutree]

 which seems to drive PC become more determined to find Thanos,

Good luck finding Thanos. Even if you do, how will you deal with the infinity gauntlet?

Edited April 21, 2015 by Namutree

[gkathellar]

 

 which seems to drive PC become more determined to find Thanos,

Good luck finding Thanos. Even if you do, how will you deal with the infinity gauntlet?

 

 

Even if you do that, no doubt it will have been part of his plan all along.

[Guest]

Yup, I agree with the above post. In fact, now that I think about it, why does that funny machine even turn you into a watcher? (or awaken you?) It's all pretty vague.

 

And while we're nitpicking, how come the main character never eats those berries or drinks the water to fix their stomach bug in act 1?

The *machine* doesn't turn you into a Watcher, surviving the biawac does.

 

Seeing Thaos is what triggers the Awakening.

 

This is all fairly explicit.

[Luckmann]

 

Yup, I agree with the above post. In fact, now that I think about it, why does that funny machine even turn you into a watcher? (or awaken you?) It's all pretty vague.

 

And while we're nitpicking, how come the main character never eats those berries or drinks the water to fix their stomach bug in act 1?

The *machine* doesn't turn you into a Watcher, surviving the biawac does.

 

Seeing Thaos is what triggers the Awakening.

 

This is all fairly explicit.

 

 

Why of course, it's all clear as mud.

[Guest]

I guess some are better at paying attention than others :/