Larder door - worth enchanting or worse than normal shield?

[thestigma]

Hey all,

 

If you are familiar with the "larder door" that you can get early on in the game, it is a large shield that grants the "bash" ability, so that in some ways it acts as a second weapon as well as a shield (but apparently it does not act entirely as a second weapon in some ways - like not qualifing for dual-wielding talents and such...)

 

My question is - since this shield has a very unique ability of being able to add an extra attack (even though it is small), is it worth enchanting up as an endgame item? How does it affect your attack speed relting to your main weapon? If it just adds bash but otherwise does not affect your primary attacks at all it seems like its purely positive to have, but if it is eating into your primary attacks then it would scale very poorly as the damage output of bash is quite poor compared to decent weapons...

 

Anyone with detailed knowledge of the game mechanics able to answer how this works out?

 

-Stigma

[famousringo]

Oof, that's a good question. Perhaps the reason Eder isn't holding aggro as well as I'd like is because the Door is slowing his main attack.

[Exoduss]

Slow/Fast atacks has nothing , and i mean NOTHING at all to do with Holding Aggro in this game you Hold Aggro by engagement and its normaly 1 enemy you can engage , there is talent for 1 more , fighter talent for 2 more , and you can get weapon wwith guarding +1 more enemy engaged but nothing else matters in terms of holding agro , also if your melee tryes to flank the enemy most likely enemy will break from your tanks engagement and turn to your melee because ENEMY wants to kill your team not your tank in particular , having this shield wont make your tank worse at holding aggro ...

[Raven Darkholme]

Attack speed is good on the shield but damage sucks. In endgame i would prefer retaliation.

[gkathellar]

The main issue with the Larder Door is that you can't upgrade it as a weapon, so it falls badly behind in terms of accuracy and damage.

 

Really, Bash should be a talent, and Fine/Exceptional/Superior shields should gain normal weapon benefits to damage.

[Katarack21]

There should be a bash talent, and then the ability to modify various shields with various kinds of spikes and such in order to add specific effects--high interrupt, bleeding, etc.

[Exoduss]

there should be more high level shields with bashing cant expect this shield to hold you for whole game when you get it at lvl 2-3

[famousringo]

Slow/Fast atacks has nothing , and i mean NOTHING at all to do with Holding Aggro in this game you Hold Aggro by engagement and its normaly 1 enemy you can engage , there is talent for 1 more , fighter talent for 2 more , and you can get weapon wwith guarding +1 more enemy engaged but nothing else matters in terms of holding agro , also if your melee tryes to flank the enemy most likely enemy will break from your tanks engagement and turn to your melee because ENEMY wants to kill your team not your tank in particular , having this shield wont make your tank worse at holding aggro ...

Thanks for the explanation. The dragon I killed last night seemed to bounce equally between the three melee I had flanking him. Now I know the logic behind it, and that there's a blood price to be paid for trying to melee at all and trying to flank in particular.

 

Then I guess it's simply a question of how much a Bashing shield reduces your tank's DPS and slows down the application of cool abilities on the main hand, like Drain and Marking.

[thestigma]

there should be more high level shields with bashing cant expect this shield to hold you for whole game when you get it at lvl 2-3

 

That logic is valid for a lot of games, but not really in PoE. Lots of very powerful items you can get early and will remain useful forever. I think the blunting belt you can buy (cheaply) from Gilded vale is a good example, but just one out of many.

 

Also - you have to consider that enchanting can increase many base stats, so there is much potential for low-end gear with unique abilities you don't find elsewhere to be very powerful when upgraded - possibly being better than much of the "higher tier" gear you get later on.

 

-Stigma

[Exoduss]

I agree with you 100% , just having 1 shield with this effect doesnt seem such a good choice for game design 

[thestigma]

I agree with you 100% , just having 1 shield with this effect doesnt seem such a good choice for game design 

 

I think I've seen an entrey for one other shield with this effect somewhere on a wiki (I try not to spoil myself TOO much, so I'm unsure of the details)

 

Ideally what we should have had was a more developed enchanting system (and crating in general perhaps). The enchantment options you have currently are often very unexciting...

 

I think a cool idea would be to have a way to deconstruct items and research them to gain access to new types of enchantments - sacrificing good items as well as sinking a lot of money and rare components into it - but  getting access to otherwise unique attributes for enchanting. Takes a bit of balancing to do right, but it beats the very flat one-button-crafting that is used now.

 

-Stigma

Edited April 17, 2015 by thestigma

[Ceranai]

Hey all,

 

If you are familiar with the "larder door" that you can get early on in the game, it is a large shield that grants the "bash" ability, so that in some ways it acts as a second weapon as well as a shield (but apparently it does not act entirely as a second weapon in some ways - like not qualifing for dual-wielding talents and such...)

 

My question is - since this shield has a very unique ability of being able to add an extra attack (even though it is small), is it worth enchanting up as an endgame item? How does it affect your attack speed relting to your main weapon? If it just adds bash but otherwise does not affect your primary attacks at all it seems like its purely positive to have, but if it is eating into your primary attacks then it would scale very poorly as the damage output of bash is quite poor compared to decent weapons...

 

Anyone with detailed knowledge of the game mechanics able to answer how this works out?

 

-Stigma

There are only about two enchantments you can get on shields. Herald (+5 all defences) and the bash. Given that enchanting the alrger door upwards is the only way to keep the second enchantment into the late game t really depends what you want, bash or herald.

 

Personally i think herald is better as if you have a shield you are probably talking about a tanky character anyway so + defences is always good. It isnt really that complicated a decision given the lack of options, you have a choice of size (small medium large), quality (normal all the way up to superb) and a choice of the two unique enchantments, and the only shield i have ever seen the bash on is the larder door.

[Ineth]

Not necessarily as an endgame item, but if you add a Fine (and later Exceptional) enchantment, it will probably be the best shield for your main tank for at least the first half of the game.

 

It's not like those enchantments need super rare ingredients, so no need to be too stingy with them.

[Exoduss]

Bash hits ogre druid for 2 damage

Ogre druid insect swarm kills your party oh gooood times

Edited April 17, 2015 by Exoduss

[Elerond]

You can find shields with following special enchantments

Bashing: Grants bash (1 large shield)

Vigilance: 10% of incoming hits are covered to grazes (1 large shield)

Safeguarding: +10% of incoming Crits coverted to Hits (1 large shield)

Preservation: +10 Defense while Stunned, +10 Defense while Prone (1 large shield and 1 small shield)

Harbinger: Grants Harbinger. (Passive: Foe AoE: -3 Accuracy over 3 sec vs. Will) Area of Effect: 2.5m Radius (base 2.5m) from Caster, Effects: Foe AoE: -5 Accuracy for 3 sec (1 medium shield)

Minor Spellbind: Winter Wind: Grants Winter Wind. Area of Effect: Length: 10.0m (base 10.0m) 60° Cone, Interrupt: 40 (Average) Effects: AoE: 30-50 Freeze, 5.0m Push vs. Fortitude +10 Accuracy) (1 medium shield)

Herald: +5 All Defenses (two small shields)

Retaliation: Retaliate when hit by a Melee Attack (1 small shield)

Reflection: Ranged Grazes reflected back at attacker (1 small shield)

 

1 Small shield is only shield that has more than one special enchantments.

 

Enchantments are from strategy guide, so there is possibility that enchantment in game does something else than what is stated above .

 

In my opinion Herald, Retaliation, Bashing and Vigilance are best enchantments.

 

Herald: because +5 to all defenses that stacks with deflection bonuses from shield is just nice.

Retaliation: Free hits are always nice

Bashing: Gives you ability to get shield bonus and faster hit rate of two weapons and it seems to get accuracy bonus from shield quality enchantment, but damage is weak, which lessens it usefulness quite lot in end game.

Vigilance: Is nice for those who don't buff their deflection in absolute maximum, but instead take some offensive abilities and talents.

 

In my opinion Little Savior is probably best shield in the game as it has superb quality enchantment outright and it has Herald and Preservation special enchantments.

 

But to subject of topic, I think bashing enchantment make shield quite good, even though its effectiveness suffers somewhat in end game, but in beginning and middle of game especially if you use hatchet it usually rises amount of damage that your tank can deal, of course this depends quite lot on build of the tank.

[Kaigen42]

I agree with Ineth. Enchanting Larder Door with the Fine quality is basically free in the grand scheme of things, so might as well do that early for the extra deflection until you find something better.

[Exoduss]

Just noticed that it has 16 def unenchanted , definetly giving it exceptional in half level

[Sock]

There is a medium shield that has bashing on it as well. I don't remember where I found it, but it has Bash 1 while Larder Door has Bash 2.

 

Also worth noting is that carnage works with bashing too.

[Exoduss]

Bash could add some form of cc tbh like interrupt/stun/prone