Any reason not to use dex as a dump stat for a melee combat wizard?

[Ouroboros226]

Can someone help me out? Been theorycrafting for 2 days now, I WANT TO FINALLY PLAY! But the attribute choices for my build is keeping me up at night. 

 

Since wizards get alacrity buff down the line (+50% attack speed bonus), I'm wondering if its not better to pump Might up to max and dump dex completely. As a melee wizard almost all your buffs are fast to instant anyway, so since long casting times is not an issue (not planning on using DD spells) I'm starting to think that Dex can be used as a dump stat.

The strongest stat for a melee wizard is int, as you need your most important buffs (combat form + vital essence, both 15-20 seconds base) to last as long as possible. Due to low health/end gain, buffing con feels useless as you get the least from buffing con of all the classes. You'd want to buff deflection though. 

So I'm thinking:

Might: Max
Con: 10
Dex: Dump
Per: 10
Int: Max
Resolve: Any remaining points

 

If its relevant to my choice I'm going either weapon focus peasant to use parasitic staff OR Tidefall (greatsword) OR Estoc. So 2 hander.

The plan is to use a fire godlike with light armor, retaliation, drain. So this should further cement the need for might and the less dependency on dex?

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Perception is a better dump stat, as Wizards have next to no interrupt potential. I don't find Resolve useful, as your wizard should never be anywhere near the action. Teleporting monsters can sometimes be a problem, but shouldn't due to scouting and poor AI. Constitution is unimportant for the same reasons. I prefer Dexterity over those other three stats, because when I need or want my wizard to act, I need it to act right now. Dexterity will also be a long term investment for when your spells become per encounter. My wizard priorities:

1. Intellect
2. Might
3. Dexterity
4. Constitution
5. Resolve
6. Perception

[Ouroboros226]

 

Perception is a better dump stat, as Wizards have next to no interrupt potential. I don't find Resolve useful, as your wizard should never be anywhere near the action. Teleporting monsters can sometimes be a problem, but shouldn't due to scouting and poor AI. Constitution is unimportant for the same reasons. I prefer Dexterity over those other three stats, because when I need or want my wizard to act, I need it to act right now. Dexterity will also be a long term investment for when your spells become per encounter. My wizard priorities:

1. Intellect
2. Might
3. Dexterity
4. Constitution
5. Resolve
6. Perception

 

So we agree on con, might and int here

 

I was thinking that since wizard has low deflect to start, but, has good deflect spells - then buffing deflection for the times you cant avoid melee is good. At least more useful than con since you wont have high health anyway.

 

How would you distribute your stats for a melee combat wizard which uses minimal DD spells?

[Blave]

Don't dump Dex. Yes, you'll get a big speed bonus from alacrity but it's a limited resource. If you want to be in melee, you'll also need at least some kind armor which slows you down. Use dex to counter it.

 

And even if you somehow don't need armor, dex and alacrity stack. Why wouldn't you try to get the most possible attack speed on a melee dps wizard?

[Mr. Magniloquent]

 

 

Perception is a better dump stat, as Wizards have next to no interrupt potential. I don't find Resolve useful, as your wizard should never be anywhere near the action. Teleporting monsters can sometimes be a problem, but shouldn't due to scouting and poor AI. Constitution is unimportant for the same reasons. I prefer Dexterity over those other three stats, because when I need or want my wizard to act, I need it to act right now. Dexterity will also be a long term investment for when your spells become per encounter. My wizard priorities:

1. Intellect
2. Might
3. Dexterity
4. Constitution
5. Resolve
6. Perception

 

So we agree on con, might and int here

 

I was thinking that since wizard has low deflect to start, but, has good deflect spells - then buffing deflection for the times you cant avoid melee is good. At least more useful than con since you wont have high health anyway.

 

How would you distribute your stats for a melee combat wizard which uses minimal DD spells?

 

 

I wouldn't. If you want your wizard to go into melee, my stat priority would not change. This is because I would let them only use reach weapons and hide behind Eder. They posses nothing making them capable of being front-line for more than one fight against trash/intermediate mobs. Wizard buffs are terrible and not adequate nor efficient to rely on. Int, Might, Dex, Con, Res, Per. That order, no matter the use.

[Eos]

Your reasoning is as followed: dump Dex, because unnecessary, pump Int because you NEED your buffs to last long. But what does Dex do? It increases your overall action speed, i.e. how many actions you can execute in a given amount of time. So if you dump Dex while raising Int, your mage will act slower while having more duration on his buffs. Same vice versa, pump Dex, dump Int and you'll act faster but have less time before your buffs run out. In conclusion: you shouldn't pump one and dump the other as they both aim for the same effect and would just cancel each other out by either making you act fast but having little time, or acting slow over a long time. Constitution on the other hand is a great dump stat. Everything Const does can also be done by micromanaging your character properly, or by buffing/equiping him properly. Const is just for lazy people :D (and it also has a rather low impact anyway)

 

You basically have two directions to distribute your stats in a minmax way. For offensive chars it's high Might, Dex, Int, for defensive chars it's high Res, Per, Con. Everything else is hybridization and sacrifices effectivity for efficiency which isn't really needed outside of soloing or wonky builds.

 

I would go: Might MAX, Const 6, Dex MAX, Int 14, Res/Per Rest

Edited April 16, 2015 by Eos

[Ouroboros226]

 

 

 

Perception is a better dump stat, as Wizards have next to no interrupt potential. I don't find Resolve useful, as your wizard should never be anywhere near the action. Teleporting monsters can sometimes be a problem, but shouldn't due to scouting and poor AI. Constitution is unimportant for the same reasons. I prefer Dexterity over those other three stats, because when I need or want my wizard to act, I need it to act right now. Dexterity will also be a long term investment for when your spells become per encounter. My wizard priorities:

1. Intellect
2. Might
3. Dexterity
4. Constitution
5. Resolve
6. Perception

 

So we agree on con, might and int here

 

I was thinking that since wizard has low deflect to start, but, has good deflect spells - then buffing deflection for the times you cant avoid melee is good. At least more useful than con since you wont have high health anyway.

 

How would you distribute your stats for a melee combat wizard which uses minimal DD spells?

 

 

I wouldn't. If you want your wizard to go into melee, my stat priority would not change. This is because I would let them only use reach weapons and hide behind Eder. They posses nothing making them capable of being front-line for more than one fight against trash/intermediate mobs. Wizard buffs are terrible and not adequate nor efficient to rely on. Int, Might, Dex, Con, Res, Per. That order, no matter the use.

 

Ok, thanks for the advice

But fully buffed a Wizard gets +11 damage reduction, +20 deflection, +20 con, +20 dex, +10-20 all saving throws, + 20 accuracy, +100 endurance, +15 all elemental DR, +50% attack speed. Surely this would make them powerful in important fights for the 30-60 seconds the Wizard has these up? I am making my whole build around it. So if you think this wouldnt work could you elaborate abit further?

 

A wizard with all buffs up, will outperform a barb or fighter in melee combat by a LONG shot, at least on paper? 

 

Note that I do not intend to tank but play as a melee dps "striker". 

[Ouroboros226]

Your reasoning is as followed: dump Dex, because unnecessary, pump Int because you NEED your buffs to last long. But what does Dex do? It increases your overall action speed, i.e. how many actions you can execute in a given amount of time. So if you dump Dex while raising Int, your mage will act slower while having more duration on his buffs. Same vice versa, pump Dex, dump Int and you'll act faster but have less time before your buffs run out. In conclusion: you shouldn't pump one and dump the other as they both aim for the same effect and would just cancel each other out by either making you act fast but having little time, or acting slow over a long time. Constitution on the other hand is a great dump stat. Everything Const does can also be done by micromanaging your character properly, or by buffing/equiping him properly. Const is just for lazy people :D (and it also has a rather low impact anyway)

 

You basically have two directions to distribute your stats in a minmax way. For offensive chars it's high Might, Dex, Int, for defensive chars it's high Res, Per, Con. Everything else is hybridization and sacrifices effectivity for efficiency which isn't really needed outside of soloing or wonky builds.

 

I would go: Might MAX, Const 6, Dex MAX, Int 14, Res/Per Rest

Thanks for helping out! 

 

I've decided to get 30% increased duration from int, and put the rest in might/dex. 

 

One last question though, what race would you guys recommend? Since I won't be tanking I'm starting to think firegodlike's DR4 bonus or fire retal won't help that much. Since they buffed death godlike to 25% endurance tresh-hold I'm considering that instead atm.  

[MoxyWoo]

I feel there's enough micro managing as is, so I actually enjoy moon godlike for the heal (and thus party heal) on a high might/decent int builds like you have here.  With no on kill effects (death shines here), not wanting to be a retaliation tank(fire or moon) and finally nature just sucking.  I enjoy moon for one less thing to micro. 

 

Another offbeat use is the Pale elf, it could be argued with the many fire spells, having Scion of Flame is awesome for a wizard using fan of flames, fireball, etc to get the damage boost and with 15+DR on fire spells, then Aloth can nuke your melee wizard without too many consequences as well.

[Ouroboros226]

I feel there's enough micro managing as is, so I actually enjoy moon godlike for the heal (and thus party heal) on a high might/decent int builds like you have here.  With no on kill effects (death shines here), not wanting to be a retaliation tank(fire or moon) and finally nature just sucking.  I enjoy moon for one less thing to micro. 

 

Another offbeat use is the Pale elf, it could be argued with the many fire spells, having Scion of Flame is awesome for a wizard using fan of flames, fireball, etc to get the damage boost and with 15+DR on fire spells, then Aloth can nuke your melee wizard without too many consequences as well.

Does the DR bonus to elemental damage on a pale elf stack with buffs? It was to my understanding that many things in this game does not stack but not sure how these mechanics work. For example, a Wizard casting 2 spells which grants physical DR - only the highest will count?

[Akimbo]

Ok, thanks for the advice

But fully buffed a Wizard gets +11 damage reduction, +20 deflection, +20 con, +20 dex, +10-20 all saving throws, + 20 accuracy, +100 endurance, +15 all elemental DR, +50% attack speed. Surely this would make them powerful in important fights for the 30-60 seconds the Wizard has these up? I am making my whole build around it. So if you think this wouldnt work could you elaborate abit further?

 

A wizard with all buffs up, will outperform a barb or fighter in melee combat by a LONG shot, at least on paper? 

 

Note that I do not intend to tank but play as a melee dps "striker". 

 

 

From my experience, by the time you've cast those buffs most fights would already be over; those that aren't would have benefited more from a Wizard doing something Wizardy instead of buffing himself through the roof to only be at the low end of mediocre in melee.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Akimbo

[MoxyWoo]

Different sources stack afaik.  For example, race is one, talent is another, weapon/shield is another, equipment (armor, capes, gloves, etc) is another, spells, and finally per encounter is another.  The higher in any of these slots will override the other.  For example, having a +2 might helmet, and a +1 might glove, the helmet would override as both are in equipment.

 

For example, you can use Zealous Aim (Paladin) with the Priest Holy Radiance per encounter +Acc power, but using Bless will override the accuracy bonus of Zealous Aim.  (wonky since Aim aura counts as a spell I guess or just another bug of stacking).

 

Pale elf afaik stacks with everything since its a racial.  Brigandine armor is also a good choice if you decide to go this route OR you can focus on cold spells with Scale armor, both having respective bonuses in the elements that do stack.  I'd still go for fire mainly because fan of flames is so burst damage but standing inside a chill fog is pretty... chill.  Also requires less talents since chill fog is much lower damage, where as the fire route means you want/need snake reflexes, and Scion.  (weapon/shield is also good, but not viable for a wizard due to losing even more accuracy they need and the melee staff spell being your main go to).

 

And despite the pale elf recommendation, I only recommend it with Aloth or similar lower might companion casters as the +% dmg from vaguely optimized might will bring a lot of pain to your main character due to the lowered stats of a wizard.  Offhand a paladin dracozzi tank can get this style down pretty well with the palace talent at lvl 2 giving them +5 Freeze Damage threshold as well, along with a very early fire retaliation which is awesome for all of Act 1.

Edited April 16, 2015 by MoxyWoo

[knownastherat]

Do not listen to anyone here because they apparently never played solo Wizard PotD and instead of 2 days theorycrafting you could try several build up to Defiance Bay.

Edited April 16, 2015 by knownastherat

[Exoduss]

Solo wizard on potd is not a thing any1 should care so is anything else you cheated with for solo potd runs , solo is not a legit thing to look up at when building your character , **** all solo scrubs try to solo this without obsidian lamp , cant stand anymore every thread getimg invaded by : Solo potd this works this not , Obsidian Lamp wins solo potd not your builds , all people seem to spam here is solo builds that is not even a part of normal PoE

Edited April 16, 2015 by Exoduss

[knownastherat]

Solo tests class to its limits. Its not like slacking in party having tank to aggro mobs so you will not get targeted or priest to babysit your ass to heal you. It is therefore pretty much relevant what the limits are as they inform on the class. In party of 6 there is little point to "optimize" anything because its not needed. In party of 6 there is no way to tell the said limits.

 

 

What does Obsidian Lamp do? Summons 5 other characters you build to your liking though IE mod? lol

[Ouroboros226]

Went with:

17 Might
17 Dex
6 Con
4 Per
17 int
17 resolve

My wizard is only lvl5 atm. Yet to reach defiance bay but its really fun to play. I opted for Estoc in the end because I did not want my main weapon to be a summon one. Of all the defensive buffs I'm using I'm surprised to see vital essence being the most useful. 

I've come to the conclusion that mirror is - unfortunately - utterly useless spells. Despite the +20 deflect from mirror, mobs easily hit me when focused. Even by a single mob. 

So far conclusion: Neglect deflect completely and go full DR.

[Exoduss]

Solo tests class to its limits. Its not like slacking in party having tank to aggro mobs so you will not get targeted or priest to babysit your ass to heal you. It is therefore pretty much relevant what the limits are as they inform on the class. In party of 6 there is little point to "optimize" anything because its not needed. In party of 6 there is no way to tell the said limits.

 

 

What does Obsidian Lamp do? Summons 5 other characters you build to your liking though IE mod? lol

3 teleporting shades is close to that , solo play tests cheese to its limits nothing to do with actual class NOTHING , no wizard will be played like solo character in proper party and again ill repeat solo is biggest cancer devs could add to this game , and they did it , inject their own creation with cancer how fcked up that is Edited April 16, 2015 by Exoduss

[knownastherat]

Since I have not read forum rules I am not sure if I am allowed to do that but you are a ****ing ignorant idiot. And scrub on top of that.

Edited April 16, 2015 by knownastherat

[Akimbo]

 

Solo tests class to its limits. Its not like slacking in party having tank to aggro mobs so you will not get targeted or priest to babysit your ass to heal you. It is therefore pretty much relevant what the limits are as they inform on the class. In party of 6 there is little point to "optimize" anything because its not needed. In party of 6 there is no way to tell the said limits.

 

 

What does Obsidian Lamp do? Summons 5 other characters you build to your liking though IE mod? lol

3 teleporting shades is close to that , solo play tests cheese to its limits nothing to do with actual class NOTHING , no wizard will be played like solo character in proper party and again ill repeat solo is biggest cancer devs could add to this game , and they did it , inject their own creation with cancer how fcked up that is

 

Soloing IE games has been around since BG so...

 

More on topic: Just can't see the point in trying to melee as a Wizard, their buffs aren't good enough and in the time it takes to buff, the fight will usually be half over.

[Ouroboros226]

@Know, Aki: What are you guys talking about? This thread is not related to soloing in any way.