at least they've got a taboo word in the studio now. the L word.

 

 

I hope you're entertained Obsidian.

 

 

 

If they actually cared one way or another about the little war you are trying to instigate here, they would lock this thread.

 

 

They locked like 5 of these threads if not more, if anything they realized its kind of pointless by now. So yes, of course they care or at least cared. THey will lock this one eventually too.

 

 

I disagree, my experience has been the Mods have only closed down or consolidated repetitive threads around this topic

 

And they closed down threads if a Op asked it to be done 

A wise man once said:

 

Oh, the dragon's balls were blazing
As I stepped into his cave
Then I sliced his ****ing ****les
With a long and shiny blade

 

'Twas I who ****ed the dragon
****alizing ****aloo
And if you try to **** with me
Then I shall **** you too

 

Gotta get it on in the party zone
I gotta shoot a load in the party zone
Gotta lick a toad in the party zone
Gotta suck a chode in the party zone

I have absolutely no idea what this has to do with the discussion, but you will probably find meaning in it and comment hereof.
 

 

 

I have a lot to say about SJWs and not much of it is nice, but honestly I think this topic is done and dusted in terms of discussion. We already have a decent timeline of it all and beyond rehashing the same points, I'm not sure what else is there to be said. IMO, once Firedorn started posting and clarified things, that's really where discussion should end, at least in the PoE section.

I would settle for a mere definition at this point, from some of those who position themselves with regards to them.

Keep in mind this is my the way I use the term, rather than an all encompassing one that everyone uses. But I define SJWs as people who hold their hard left identity politics as the core part of their personality and morals to the point where injecting said politics into every part of their lives through "online activism" is the primary way they demonstrate that they are good people. Fighting for "equality" and "social justice" (by getting offended over a poem in a video game, or by a scientist's shirt while he celebrates landing a spacecraft on a moving comet).

 

Not all feminists are SJWs mind you, by definition they are an outspoken minority.

 

The problem is that when you base your entire personality on your politics, then everything is a potential nail that you need to hammer. And SJWs take that idea to an extreme. There's out of context clip of Anita Sarkeesian that describes it surprisingly well.

 

"Everything is sexist, everything is racist and you have to call it all out."

 

Because everything is potentially misogynist, racist, etc then there's no reason to have empathy for people who aren't part of their ingroup or follow their belief structure either. Why would you want to empathise with sexists and rape apologists?

 

The SJW ingroup supposedly a reversal of what society considers the ingroup (privileged), but in practice, really just means straight middle class or richer white women are at the top instead of middle class or richer straight white men. Because generally speaking, your life can't be that bad if you can afford to make online activism your core hobby and personality trait. Or in the case of others, your livelihood.

 

Of course, the lack of empathy and perspective SJWs show for things and people that fall outside their worldview can lead to some strange behaviours that many of them seem to exhibit.

 

Such as doublethink, where people like Erika thinks that the Firedorn poem is an unacceptable joke because it normalises abuse against people (trans people for whatever reason), yet think it's okay to consistently crack jokes about rounding up men into Auschwitz style death camps.

 

Or an ends justify the means rhetoric, like how MovieBob said that there's no bad tactics, only bad targets. It's okay to do or say horrible things to others if they "deserve" it. Like how an anti-SJW webcomics creator was doxxed, threatened with violence in dozens of calls and texts, harassed and temporarily fired due to SJWs spamming her employer with false claims of sexism and racism. SJWs then celebrated their "good" work when the firing become known.

 

Or straight up hypocrisy like Jonathan McIntosh "mansplaining" feminism to women who disagree with him.

 

Don't get me wrong, it is a horseshoe and there's crazies on both sides of the argument. But SJWs seem to carry a flagrant disregard for context and authorial intent when they complain. Meaning that anything can be oppression if they feel it is.

 

 

 

 

 

Not really because as subjective as those "1-10 pain scale charts" are, physical pain can be measured, verified and more importantly denotes an underlying condition.    

Those charts actually exist because the pain cannot be measured, or verified. It's all subjective--what you say is an 8 might be a 5 to somebody else, etc. There is no "pain unit", no discreet measuring system. There is no way to objectively quantify pain.

 

 

Yep.  This is, incidentally, a large part of why people with chronic pain issues have such a hard time getting the regular medication they need without meeting with suspicion that they're junkies or the like.  It's a pretty serious problem that leaves many people suffering needlessly when their doctors won't believe them on what they're experiencing.

 

 

This is true. My fiance has Ehlers-Danlos syndrome; her main symptoms, beside dislocating joints and such, is simply severe chronic joint pain. I have a badly healed boxers fracture on my right hand and chronic arthritis in all of those knuckles, along with migraines. Both of us have real problems getting the pain medication we need because of this very issue.

 

Because obviously you guys suffering from severe pain your whole life is just the price one has to pay to keep those dirty drug-seekers from getting their hands on medication they don't deserve!

 

 

 

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that fortune has smiled on you in the sense that drug addiction (especially the insidious "But RX is safer." strain) hasn't touched you or yours in a major way. ---  Although I can sympathize with Katarack and their fiancé, cracking down on pill mills is the lesser of the two evils, even if it means extra hoops to jump through for people who's need is real.    

 

 

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that fortune has smiled on you in the sense that drug addiction (especially the insidious "But RX is safer." strain) hasn't touched you or yours in a major way. ---  Although I can sympathize with Katarack and their fiancé, cracking down on pill mills is the lesser of the two evils, even if it means extra hoops to jump through for people who's need is real.    

 

And while I can sympathise with what I gather is your situation, what I've seen in my life leads me to believe that the lesser evil is getting relief to the people who are suffering horrendously.

 

 

I hope you're entertained Obsidian.

 

If they actually cared one way or another about the little war you are trying to instigate here, they would lock this thread.

 

 

They locked like 5 of these threads if not more, if anything they realized its kind of pointless by now. So yes, of course they care or at least cared. THey will lock this one eventually too.

 

 

Alright, I've pretty much fallen out of the thread by now and haven't been keeping attention, the only reason I popped in was because of some Likes, and I decided to check the last page real quick. Saw this, and..

 

...let's be clear on something. The Obsidian boards (seemingly) have a great deal of autonomy, and while this does not mean that moderation is not always the most reasonable thing in the world and is sometimes hamfisted or seemingly arbitrary (The two warnings I've gotten on my lifetime on these boards were.. weird).. the mods do not jump and snap to it at Obsidian's beck and call. I also have a personal belief that this is actually why Sawyer stays out of these forums, because they are a largely uncontrollable environment, even to him.

 

Whether this is because Obsidian actually doesn't try to micro-manage, whether due to company culture or policy, or because the moderators are stiff-necked in relation to the slippery slope of overzealous authority, I don't know, and I really don't care. I think they let these things live out of principle, and don't lock them down because they're "pointless", but when they're actually breaking the rules, have reached a point where they're entirely off topic, or they've reached the post limit (I think that's 20 pages).

 

I may not like all moderators, and some of them may seem moodier than others when it comes to this or that, or certain topics (which they more often seem to stay away from, probably so it doesn't drive them insane; or have their emotions mess with their moderator duties - which is actually pretty professional and reasonable).

 

In this ****storm, let's just get it clear that the moderation on these boards is actually overall great, especially as far as official boards go (Bioware boards entering what amounted to a complete lockdown when Dragon Age 2 was released comes to mind; and I will never forget losing all my phat lewt and DLC:s when getting banned on the boards after the whole Epic Community Event thing when I called Ray Muzyka a hack).

 

So no, "they" likely wouldn't lock this thread, whether they care about "the little war" or not. It's left open, because, it's, like, a free country, man.

 

 

I also want to extend this to the QA Team and the Devs that actually do choose to engage us in conversation on the boards, and have in my experience never acted like the ****grinning splerglords that they probably could act as in any other forum environment, or force upon this environment, if they really wanted. Even that little "We've confirmed this and added it to the list" from QA in the bug threads actually do more than I think you realize.

 

There's a lot of **** going on, I doubt any of you will even see this, I doubt you're even watching these threads by now, but you people are great, and you should hear that more often, in-between the sometimes harsh criticism. Making points, no matter how good, sometimes makes us worse people than we should be. Eight cheers to you.

 

...by getting offended over a poem in a video game, or by a scientist's shirt while he celebrates landing a spacecraft on a moving comet

 

Of course, the lack of empathy and perspective SJWs show for things and people that fall outside their worldview can lead to some strange behaviours that many of them seem to exhibit.

 

So you're saying that we should all just accept an obviously transmisogynistic poem in the game, despite the fact that there are trans individuals playing the game? That ought to make it welcoming for said trans players.

 

Or that it's perfectly appropriate for a high-ranking scientist present for a monumental, historic moment to be wearing attire that portrays women as sex objects, despite the documented misogyny that already discourages women from entering the science fields? That must make women comfortable working around you!

 

And somehow, those who point out such sexism are depicted as having a "lack of empathy and perspective" by apologists such as yourself.

 

Please do enlighten me.

@Luckmann Did you read my GG anthem at least? I hope you read it. You're in it.

Edited April 10, 201511 yr by PrimeJunta

Have you guys considered the threads get locked because they devolve into childish mudslinging rather than productive discussion?

 

Cuz dats what happens.

There's more art in this thread than in all the tombstones of PoE put together. Thanks for saving my morning evensong and PrimeJunta :D I knew there was a reason I kept coming back even after limericking ended.

And thus we come around full circle, given that apparently diagnosing pain isn't as advanced as I believed (I'll have to try to remember to ask my doctor about it on my next appointment while getting an estimate of how many more years I have before being forced to take the next step towards becoming a cyborg.) we're back to the problem that one man's seven is another man's three. (Of course, no matter which "solution" is used, self medication will still remain a problem.)

 

...by getting offended over a poem in a video game, or by a scientist's shirt while he celebrates landing a spacecraft on a moving comet

 

Of course, the lack of empathy and perspective SJWs show for things and people that fall outside their worldview can lead to some strange behaviours that many of them seem to exhibit.

 

So you're saying that we should all just accept an obviously transmisogynistic poem in the game, despite the fact that there are trans individuals playing the game? That ought to make it welcoming for said trans players.

 

Or that it's perfectly appropriate for a high-ranking scientist present for a monumental, historic moment to be wearing attire that portrays women as sex objects, despite the documented misogyny that already discourages women from entering the science fields? That must make women comfortable working around you!

 

And somehow, those who point out such sexism are depicted as having a "lack of empathy and perspective" by apologists such as yourself.

 

Please do enlighten me.

 

 

So you're saying that the game should be completely overhauled and cut to pieces because there are parts that contain things like rape? Should we sit here and accept lore that obviously condones rape enough to accept it in game when there are people who have been raped playing the game? That ought to make it welcoming for said rape survivors.

 

Or is it possible that a minority of people are so hellbent on finding crusades that they'll look for the worst in everything just to have a reason to be outraged? Just to have a reason to say that they're fighting anything? A group of people that don't mind the risque as long as it follows their particular set of morals, otherwise it's too offensive and should be censored?

 

And somehow, those who point out the irony and fallacies in those arguments are depicted as "misogynists, rape apologists, racists, and bigots" by the perpetually offended such as yourself.

 

Please do enlighten me.

Edited April 10, 201511 yr by MistarDurk

 

 

 

Not really because as subjective as those "1-10 pain scale charts" are, physical pain can be measured, verified and more importantly denotes an underlying condition.

Those charts actually exist because the pain cannot be measured, or verified. It's all subjective--what you say is an 8 might be a 5 to somebody else, etc. There is no "pain unit", no discreet measuring system. There is no way to objectively quantify pain.

 

Yep. This is, incidentally, a large part of why people with chronic pain issues have such a hard time getting the regular medication they need without meeting with suspicion that they're junkies or the like. It's a pretty serious problem that leaves many people suffering needlessly when their doctors won't believe them on what they're experiencing.

 

This is true. My fiance has Ehlers-Danlos syndrome; her main symptoms, beside dislocating joints and such, is simply severe chronic joint pain. I have a badly healed boxers fracture on my right hand and chronic arthritis in all of those knuckles, along with migraines. Both of us have real problems getting the pain medication we need because of this very issue.

 

Can we turn this into a "fun with physicians" thread? You can't get the medicine you need because they don't believe your pain is as bad as you say, and I'm getting constantly increased dosages of prescription drugs that have no effect. 288mg (36*8 ) of Concerta/Methylphenidatehydrochloride per day? And another 40mg (4*10)of Ritalin/Methylphenidatehydrochloride on top of that? Sure, can I have a Pez dispenser with it? I prefer Cherry and Lemon, Strawberry is scrub tier.

 

@Luckmann Did you read my GG anthem at least? I hope you read it. You're in it.

I didn't, but it's funny, because I've never identified as a GG:er.

 

 

...by getting offended over a poem in a video game, or by a scientist's shirt while he celebrates landing a spacecraft on a moving comet

 

Of course, the lack of empathy and perspective SJWs show for things and people that fall outside their worldview can lead to some strange behaviours that many of them seem to exhibit.

 

So you're saying that we should all just accept an obviously transmisogynistic poem in the game, despite the fact that there are trans individuals playing the game? That ought to make it welcoming for said trans players.

 

Or that it's perfectly appropriate for a high-ranking scientist present for a monumental, historic moment to be wearing attire that portrays women as sex objects, despite the documented misogyny that already discourages women from entering the science fields? That must make women comfortable working around you!

 

And somehow, those who point out such sexism are depicted as having a "lack of empathy and perspective" by apologists such as yourself.

 

Please do enlighten me.

 

No, I think he's saying that it's not obviously "transmisogynistic" at all. Because it's a joke. And if you are offended by it, whether you're a "transperson" or not, you're being ridiculous.

 

And I think a lot of people agree that the shirt was inappropriate. But not because it's "sexist", or that it portrayed women at sex objects, because it wasn't, and it didn't, but because of the high-profile nature of the event. Inappropriate? Yes.

 

The reasonable thing would have been to send a mail, saying, "Hey, your employee's doesn't really convey a professional attitude in casual attire, even if I realize that they tend to be experts in their field not usually working with the public, and thus not accustomed to presentations of this kind, so you might want to think about that in the future", not bully a genius-level expert in his field over Twitter and Tumblr until the point of crying due to wearing a tacky - not misogynistic, not sexist, not oppressive, not offensive - shirt. A shirt he wore because he wanted to show off something a female friend of his made professionally, because he was proud of her and she was proud of her work.

 

To even argue that this was not the lowest point of feminism in the history of civilization really underlines the sheer insanity SJW:s tend to exhude. It is utter lunacy to even defend the whole thing as warranted. Meaningless, pitiful, pathethic SJW:s without anything better to do decided to crush one of the brightest minds on the planet over a perceived slight, at the peak of his career, at the event of what was his life's achievement, the culmination of decades of study, years of work.

 

This is exactly why we hate SJW:s so much. This is exactly why people want to cart them off and put them into the back of a diesel truck with a reverb exhaust pipe.

 

That is the lack of empathy. That's the "somehow". Because that's what happened. Somehow, pointing this "sexism" out - which no-one would reasonable even care about - and bully a man to tears, was more important than appreciating the work done, the advancement of civilization and technology, and the cultural impact of the context. And that's the lack of perspective. SJW:s are the blindest, most deluded people on the planet, and I would rather support a somalian warlord than SJW:s. At least the somalian warlord can blame circumstance, SJW:s are ignorant, pathethic, soulless, vindictive, delusional and violent little ****lords by choice.

Have you guys considered the threads get locked because they devolve into childish mudslinging rather than productive discussion?

 

Cuz dats what happens.

 

I totally agree.

 

In this thread alone, those who are empathetic to feminist causes, or who are critical of the limerick, are referred to as "feminazis," "idiots," "lunatics," "crazy f***s", and "loons" and also have "mental health issues" and "general loserdom."

 

You're right on the dot with the childish mudslinging.

So you're saying that we should all just accept an obviously transmisogynistic poem in the game

I disagree that it's an obviously transmisogynistic poem. The target of the joke's mockery wasn't the supposed trans person involved, it was the man who's small mindedness led to his unnecessary death. We know this because the author of the joke himself confirmed as such, that it wasn't aimed at transpeople nor had transpeople involved in the joke at all. It was a light hearted joke making fun of a medieval fictional guy who overreacts to a stressful situation relating back to his own sexuality.

 

Or that it's perfectly appropriate for a high-ranking scientist present for a monumental, historic moment to be wearing attire that portrays women as sex objects,

I disagree that the shirt portrays women as sex objects, at most it portrays cartoon women as sexually desirable. By his sleeve tatts and interviews prior to the shirt incident, we can surmise that Dr. Taylor is not a stereotypical scientist. It's not like he had a reputation for being sharply dressed and suddenly decided to wear this shirt, he has a well documented history of terrible fashion choices which this particular shirt blends into.

 

He probably wanted to have a bit of fun with attire that is not associated with scientists of his calibre like he has been known to do in the past, while also helping to promote the female friend who made the shirt for him.

 

That's the context. What happened to Matt Taylor was an absolute disgrace and I can't ever see eye to eye on this issue with anyone who believes that he somehow deserved it in any way shape or form.

 

To add to that, we haven't heard any of his coworkers complain about his behaviour or choice of attire in the least and to our knowledge, he still works there with the same level of authority. If he truly perpetuated a culture uncomfortable for women or sexist in nature, we would've eventually heard stories about it since the media at the time was hunting for blood.

 

Finally, to be frank, if a person chooses to let some guy's tacky shirt prevent them from entering their desired field/career, they probably weren't cut out for it in the first place.

Edited April 10, 201511 yr by Crusty

@Luckmann It's okay, you'll always be a GG'er for me.

Please do enlighten me.

 

With pleasure. Ever hear of the word context? I assume you abhor genocide, and denounce it. I do too. So how is it possible that both of us can agree that Schindler's List is considered theatrical art?

 

Now compare that to a limerick that is obviously transmisogynistic.

Except that the context is that the poem in question is not "obviously trans-misogynistic" at all. As for childish name calling, meh ... that's the pot calling the kettle black at best.

 

Have you guys considered the threads get locked because they devolve into childish mudslinging rather than productive discussion?

 

Cuz dats what happens.

 

I totally agree.

 

In this thread alone, those who are empathetic to feminist causes, or who are critical of the limerick, are referred to as "feminazis," "idiots," "lunatics," "crazy f***s", and "loons" and also have "mental health issues" and "general loserdom."

 

You're right on the dot with the childish mudslinging.

 

 

 

And you highlight the other problem: each side thinks their **** don't stink. The guilt here is from both sides. You can go back to any of those threads and clearly see it. But because both sides are so focused on their hate for one another and their belief the other side is the devil, they don't even think twice about resorting to the childish insults and the like.

No, I think he's saying that it's not obviously "transmisogynistic" at all. Because it's a joke. And if you are offended by it, whether you're a "transperson" or not, you're being ridiculous.

 

Got it, it's good to know that as long as it's a joke, it's never offensive to anyone. Let me brush up these racist Mexican and Asian jokes that I saw on the internet and tell it to my Mexican and Asian co-workers tomorrow. I'm sure they'll be perfectly fine with it, because you said so.

 

 

Somehow, pointing this "sexism" out - which no-one would reasonable even care about - 

 

I stopped reading after about this point. Despite the mountains of complaints by many (women and men), such as astrophysicist Katie Mack, the fact that you can say "no one would reasonably care about" the blatant sexism sure reeks of a lack of empathy. What would you say to Katie Mack face-to-face if you had the chance? That she's unreasonable for pointing out blatant sexism in the science fields?

And you highlight the other problem: each side thinks their **** don't stink. The guilt here is from both sides. You can go back to any of those threads and clearly see it. But because both sides are so focused on their hate for one another and their belief the other side is the devil, they don't even think twice about resorting to the childish insults and the like.

Speak for yourself. I didn't post in any of the previous threads, therefore my **** clearly don't stink. 

 

 

Yet.   

 

Except that the context is that the poem in question is not "obviously trans-misogynistic" at all.

As we all know, the best way to carry through some questionable statement is to start it with "obviously", "naturally" or "as we all know".

 

...Ooops. I did it, didn't I?

 

This thread is hilarious.

 

And you highlight the other problem: each side thinks their **** don't stink. The guilt here is from both sides. You can go back to any of those threads and clearly see it. But because both sides are so focused on their hate for one another and their belief the other side is the devil, they don't even think twice about resorting to the childish insults and the like.

Speak for yourself. I didn't post in any of the previous threads, therefore my **** clearly don't stink. 

 

 

Yet.   

 

 

 

 

Hehe well what I meant was more that there's idiots on both sides of the argument, both those who wanted the limerick to stay and those who wanted it gone. A smug sense of superiority seems quite common amongst those who want it gone (which is never good, cause this kind of superiority complex kills any empathy for the other side) whereas a lot of sensational reactions and emotionally charged lambasts of Obsidian and others is quite common from those who wanted it to stay in game (which is obviously bad, so those people who can't calm the hell down should probably, yknow, let others actually try and discuss things).