Any way to make a tanky damage dealer?

[Odd Hermit]

Actually my main reason to get 14 resolve and perception was the dialogue options. I just used the build as an example of one that I tried which was balanced around tanking and doing damage, and seemed to work well at least in the early game. I'm not saying it's the best, but it was still effective and fun to play. I think you and many others on this board are putting way too much emphasis on the importance of stat builds, while they actually matter way less than what class and talents you have and what equipment you use. I mean Eder only has 12 perception and 13 resolve and he's pretty much immortal with the right items and talents. People are saying that you're gimping your character unless you are minmaxing stats (which clearly led to OP creating a crappy, unfun character) while it's simply not the case.

 

In my party Pallegina has almost caught up with Eder in damage even though she has been in the party for maybe half as long, and she can also easily tank two enemies at a time. I don't see how she sucks in combat.

 

 

OP's character wasn't necessary crappy, just not what he wanted out of his character.

 

Some people also just want their character to be good at everything at once and it leads them to end up being good at nothing which is the state of the companions right now.

 

All of the companions can work fine if only because the combat isn't too painfully difficult especially on Hard and below. But relative to a custom build, yes companions including Pallegina suck at everything. I used Flames of Devotion and Arbalest on her, she was basically good for two sort-of hard hits(if they hit) and then relegated to babysitting squishier characters, which many other builds could do better while doing other things. Her damage in melee is weak, her damage at range is weak, her durability is mediocre.

 

I've also tested the immortality of Eder, and post-bugs, he's not really durable nor is his damage output great. He has too many points in con which is the worst attribute unless you're going pure tank which Eder cannot really do until late game since he has weak Per/Res. I can make a character that does better damage and tanks better and is basically better in every way with just lower endurance that I could make up for by eating some food if I really wanted.

 

And companions also take some pretty awful talents. So even if you think their attributes aren't a big deal, there's still that problem.

[Fardragon]

It would be a problem if the game was impossible to complete without optimised companions, but they do perfectly fine. Sure, they aren't the best at anything, nor do they make the best choices - pretty much like real people.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Fardragon

[Korgull]

 

Actually my main reason to get 14 resolve and perception was the dialogue options. I just used the build as an example of one that I tried which was balanced around tanking and doing damage, and seemed to work well at least in the early game. I'm not saying it's the best, but it was still effective and fun to play. I think you and many others on this board are putting way too much emphasis on the importance of stat builds, while they actually matter way less than what class and talents you have and what equipment you use. I mean Eder only has 12 perception and 13 resolve and he's pretty much immortal with the right items and talents. People are saying that you're gimping your character unless you are minmaxing stats (which clearly led to OP creating a crappy, unfun character) while it's simply not the case.

 

In my party Pallegina has almost caught up with Eder in damage even though she has been in the party for maybe half as long, and she can also easily tank two enemies at a time. I don't see how she sucks in combat.

 

 

OP's character wasn't necessary crappy, just not what he wanted out of his character.

 

Some people also just want their character to be good at everything at once and it leads them to end up being good at nothing which is the state of the companions right now.

 

All of the companions can work fine if only because the combat isn't too painfully difficult especially on Hard and below. But relative to a custom build, yes companions including Pallegina suck at everything. I used Flames of Devotion and Arbalest on her, she was basically good for two sort-of hard hits(if they hit) and then relegated to babysitting squishier characters, which many other builds could do better while doing other things. Her damage in melee is weak, her damage at range is weak, her durability is mediocre.

 

I've also tested the immortality of Eder, and post-bugs, he's not really durable nor is his damage output great. He has too many points in con which is the worst attribute unless you're going pure tank which Eder cannot really do until late game since he has weak Per/Res. I can make a character that does better damage and tanks better and is basically better in every way with just lower endurance that I could make up for by eating some food if I really wanted.

 

And companions also take some pretty awful talents. So even if you think their attributes aren't a big deal, there's still that problem.

 

Okay, I noticed some of your posts in other threads and my conclusion is that you're obsessed with character optimization and this discussion isn't going anywhere

 

Still I'd like to suggest to OP that don't care about minmaxing that much unless you're playing on Path of the Damned, which I assume you aren't.

[Fimconte]

Fighter with Defender+Wary Defender, +10 deflect ring and a few other defensive items (+5 pierce/slash DR belt) = you're pretty much done in terms of defenses.  
It's not like you need 140+ deflect, that a shield fighter ends up with. 
This leaves you with plenty of room to do noticeable damage, either with dual-wield or 2h. 

Edited April 5, 2015 by Fimconte

[Kromzor]

The less focused a build the more poorly it does its job. Why have a character that does mediocre damage and is only somewhat durable when you can optimize a few durable characters to take the damage and then have damage builds that wreck everything?

 

Because the enemy likes to ignore the melee sometimes and will start nuking your glass cannons before they even cast a spell, or just teleport onto them.  Because reloading 20x because you got "unlucky" for any number of reasons when your Cipher melted in 5 seconds isn't fun.  Because some people would rather slog through a fight than than tip-toe kite around every fight.  Because if you're playing on Hard+ your camping is limited which really limits the WTFBBQ face melting of certain classes for a fair portion of the game, and sure you can alievate that by avoiding fights, but again some people don't want to do that or to spend a lot of time running back to town for supplies/sleep, so having more rugged party members with higher Health pools is an advantage. 

 

Its all still min/maxing at the end of the day, different people just have different prefrences or objectives.  And finally some people do actually RP in these games to varrying degrees and the thought of their Fighter not being able to hit the broadside of a troll's arse, and only being able to tickle it when he does hit, is unappealing.

[AncientToaster]

Odd Hermit is the type of gamer where theory about the game mechanics overrides actual scenarios.

 

We all know this game is basically a roll of the dice during combat. High deflection or not, you're gonna get hit and bad stuff is going to happen. "middle of the road" builds are viable as well.

[Odd Hermit]

 

The less focused a build the more poorly it does its job. Why have a character that does mediocre damage and is only somewhat durable when you can optimize a few durable characters to take the damage and then have damage builds that wreck everything?

 

Because the enemy likes to ignore the melee sometimes and will start nuking your glass cannons before they even cast a spell, or just teleport onto them.  Because reloading 20x because you got "unlucky" for any number of reasons when your Cipher melted in 5 seconds isn't fun.  Because some people would rather slog through a fight than than tip-toe kite around every fight.  Because if you're playing on Hard+ your camping is limited which really limits the WTFBBQ face melting of certain classes for a fair portion of the game, and sure you can alievate that by avoiding fights, but again some people don't want to do that or to spend a lot of time running back to town for supplies/sleep, so having more rugged party members with higher Health pools is an advantage. 

 

Its all still min/maxing at the end of the day, different people just have different prefrences or objectives.  And finally some people do actually RP in these games to varrying degrees and the thought of their Fighter not being able to hit the broadside of a troll's arse, and only being able to tickle it when he does hit, is unappealing.

 

 

I'm not having an issue with this. Deflection / endurance don't do much for already fragile classes to prevent this. If anything, dex is the better defensive stat because it allows you to cast fast defensive spells faster. And it has offensive value as well, obviously.

 

Con does very, very little for HP on non-fighter type classes, and Per/Res need to be pretty high before you start feeling substantially more durable. You have to sacrifice way too much offensive capability for too little defensive gain if you go for above 8-10 Con/Per/Res on a Wizard, Priest, Cipher, Druid.

[eubatham]

For an offtank, pretty much any class you put in a Full Plate should be fine in all honesty. Just grab a few points in resolve or perception and pump up might. You can safely drop Con to 8, even on classes with high base health, since you won't be (nor can you) keeping multiple enemies on you.

[Shadenuat]

I have a Bleak Walker in party on PotD now and overall, he's alright, I think better in terms of damage than fighter, but less of a tank. Race and equipment matter a lot here. I picked human cause he's larping Sarevok, but Moon Godlike would be a lot better choice.

The stats are Might 18, Per&Res 15 & else 10 (dumping Int makes his aura nearly useless). I picked offensive aura (Zealous Focus) and all perks for FoD for +100% elemental damage on hit, WF:Soldier, Sworn Enemy, Revive & Hold the line. Mark the target and whack it with FoD. Surprisingly, he does almost as much damage as rogue with pistol (Forgiveness with gunner & Chanter's reload aura).

The equipment is very important. Since my main tank never falls in combat, Ring of Wonder (second chance) went to paladin, as well as Shod in Faith - boots that proc consecrated ground when he gets a crit. Not sure if it helps but he wears Sanguine Plate (retaliation on hit) too. Blunting Belt helps a bit more with DR. The weapons are St. Rumbalts because +12 accuracy in midgame is great and Arquebus.

Overall it kinda feels like packing Keldorn from BG2 with items to the point of making him more than his class - he also had crappy stats before you'd give him all the required equipment.

[Judicator]

Nah, Keldorn was pretty solid. Only his Dex was lacking. 17 STR and CON are respectable if not optimal.

[gkathellar]

There is no reason to suppose that 3 Int in PoE means the same as 3 INT in DnD (drooling imbecile). I think of it as being more equivalent to low normal (8 Int in DnD terms).

If you're obsessed with establishing what an Int score "means," everything under a 12 might as well be identical, because 12 is the point at which you start to gain additional conversation options. Besides that, your character is exactly as smart as you want them to be.

 

If you consider Might, you can do some direct comparisons.

No, you can't. A point of damage - what it does, how it scales, etc. - means an entirely different thing in PoE than it does in another system.

 

Because the enemy likes to ignore the melee sometimes and will start nuking your glass cannons before they even cast a spell, or just teleport onto them. Because reloading 20x because you got "unlucky" for any number of reasons when your Cipher melted in 5 seconds isn't fun. Because some people would rather slog through a fight than than tip-toe kite around every fight. Because if you're playing on Hard+ your camping is limited which really limits the WTFBBQ face melting of certain classes for a fair portion of the game, and sure you can alievate that by avoiding fights, but again some people don't want to do that or to spend a lot of time running back to town for supplies/sleep, so having more rugged party members with higher Health pools is an advantage.

My experience has been that, playing on Hard, what you're saying is complete crap. My glass cannons rarely, if ever, go down. My tanks pin effectively. I find myself passing up camping kits because I have trouble finding reasons to rest. I can only think that the reason you think these play strategies don't work or require cheese is because you don't know how to use them.

 

So yeah, I guess ... git gud?

Edited April 6, 2015 by gkathellar

[gkathellar]

(accidental double post)

Edited April 6, 2015 by gkathellar

[b0rsuk]

I'd use a fighter.

Leather armor is great. 30% Recovery penalty, that's 15% with Armored Grace. Base DR is 6, but 9 against Slash, one of the most common damage types. Add slash-proofing: +12. The notable gap is Piercing damage, but that is easy to fix if you have a Druid in your party. Woodskin gives +6 Piercing DR in those fights that need it.  It's weak to Corrode, but the only two notable enemies using it are banshees and the adra dragon. Carry a single suit of corrode-proofed armor and you're golden.

 

[Voltron]

Check out my thread: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/78627-endless-paths-1-15-potd-solo-monk-achieved-story-also-ofc-build-and-details-inside/

 

I made super tanky monk who could still outDPS everything in-game by spaming Torments Reach and defend himself from most CC. I don't think I could do better tank damage dealer. I beated solo Endless Paths with it on PotD yesterday and for critic path it is breeze.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Voltron