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What mechanics you enjoy the most in comparison to original IE ?

ie combat game mechanics

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#1
BugsVendor

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What changes in game mechanics do you like the most in comparison to other IE titles ?

 

In my opinion they made some really good design choices and major improvements.

 

I don't wish to discuss the story or graphics or anything like that just the core beef of the game.

 

 

Here are mine:

 

Chanters

 

The new bards are cool. In old IE games I always liked bards as characters but they weren't fun to play.

 

Instead of fighting they would just stand and play with their flutes. Boring.

 

Moving chanting into background sort of aura thing made them fun to manage in combat and they kept their essence. Cool!

Being able to combine different chants together ads depth to it. In theory. In the end it's the reload speed you care about.

 

Per encounter spells

 

There are mostly 2 types of encounters in any dungeon.

 

Bossy hard kinda like where you throw all you have and lesser guys you just kill on the way.

 

Per encounter spells made the latter more interesting and enabled the developers to make it harder too. You don't have to feel bad about casting a spell on just a few guys to speed up the clearing process.

 

Camping supplies

 

Old system was bad. Sleep almost anywhere you wanted, got attacked, reload if not back to full force.

 

Having only 2 camping supplies available at a time is great on PoD. Brings back the pen and paper feeling to it. You have limited supplies, lets try to finish the dungeons with the resources at hand. If you fail, you are punished with boring walk back to the tavern. Best feeling in the world is not finding cool loot. It's finding extra camping supplies in the dungeon.

 

Knock out instead of death

 

This is the best change in my opinion. In the old IE games tanking meta was the only option. It was boring and if somehow any of your squishes got attacked you went straight into reload. Changing this "one mistake and it's over" way of playing is a major improvement.

 

I know there still is tanking meta in this combat but think how much different it is now. They can have monsters like shades and shadows that teleport to the back of your team and wreck havoc. And it's fun, suddenly wizard's defensive spells become useful. If they get 1 out of few of your dpsing characters you can still finish the fight. You don't have to load because of 1 slip. This also makes you not worry of sending you rouges into melee combat.

 

It also removes the model where either you have everything under control. Meaning tank standing without any troubles the rest just obliterates the enemies. Or not winnable: tanks dies and everyone soon after.

 

This mechanics allows more close calls. 4 party members knocked out and a drake with 1 dot of hp. How is it going to end?

 

I have had a lot of super close calls playing on PoD killing last monster with a 10hp wizard is amazing.

 

Way more epic. They way it should be.

 

 

 

 

Side issue: buggy release was still unacceptable.

 

 


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#2
Kimuji

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I agree with all your points. The aggro management is still perfectible but it is a step in the right direction, and like you I like the fact that a few monsters can teleport out of engagement in order to attack those you are hiding behind the tank. It is a very welcome addition in order to force players out their comfort zone. It adds a nice "expect the unexpected" feeling to these fights against shades and phantoms.


Edited by Kimuji, 04 April 2015 - 04:30 AM.


#3
PrimeJunta

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Hey, you pretty much listed them.

 

I'll add... engagement. 

 

Yeah I do like it. I started out liking it, then when I finally really got into the IE games and how to win them, started to shift towards not liking it, and now I'm back at liking it, but for different reasons.

 

I like it because it adds transparency to the combat. It makes it clear to see who's free to move and who's not, and I've been successfully using it to get my strikers to strike with effect and impunity. I also enjoy the broad range of tools the game gives us to break it when one of those squishies does get engaged.

 

My original reason for liking it -- that it provides a way to control the battlefield through positioning -- is now secondary and only applies to some fights. I did always dislike the way the IE games made it so you could only hold a chokepoint by putting two toons literally shoulder-to-shoulder in it, and then only when it's really narrow. 

 

Another thing I like is the removal of hard restrictions with regards to gear. It lets me experiment a lot more, even if I end up in more or less the same place (squishy wizards, tanky fighters). 


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#4
CaptainMace

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Engagement is the aspect I wanna see improved. I like this idea of setting a line of front during the battle. When you manage to do so, it even gives some really cool setup for several spells and abilities. The most obvious is line-shaped spells like ray of fire, when you manage to engage enough enemies with little frontliners and can hit 'em all with these spells/abilities, it feels good :>

But right now it doesn't seem to work well. Pathfinding doesn't help in its current state.


Edited by CaptainMace, 04 April 2015 - 04:38 AM.


#5
Maydawn

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Short question: what does IE stand for exactly ?

 

AH ! Infinity engine ! nevermind :)

brain went blank for a moment

 

Regarding classes, because you listed Chanters: I like Ciphers focus design. It's not balanced yet in my opinion, but the idea of hitting to generate a resource you can spend on abilities is quite refreshing.

The fact that wizards can auto attack with a scepter / wand is very nice, as it allows you to plan your spells and save them for when you really need them, instead of spamming all spells and resting after every fight. With the improved Blast thing, my wizard can dish nice AOE damage, and it saves room for more tactful choices with spells.

 

I'm not sure it's related to mechanics specifically, but the removal of restrictions on weapons / armor. If I want to be a battle-mage dual wielding maces in heavy armor and cast spells slowly I finally can ! :D


Edited by Maydawn, 04 April 2015 - 04:48 AM.

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#6
PrimeJunta

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http://en.wikipedia....Infinity_Engine



#7
termokanden

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OP pretty much listed my favorites.

 

I'm especially surprised at how much I enjoy the new camping supply system. I was sure I was going to hate it, but I decided to give it an honest try and it turns out I'm playing the game in a more enjoyable way.



#8
Sensuki

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Character Progression is better.

 

Everything else is worse.



#9
anameforobsidian

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Pretty much everything said above, especially rest.

 

The classes are more unique.  They could do with some more options for each class (there's never enough), but you can get some really unique play out of the different classes.  Once I finish my current run with my cipher, I'll probably try going barbarian next.

 

Also, lowered duration on enchantments.  That was one thing that was flat out annoying in the IE games.



#10
BugsVendor

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Hey, you pretty much listed them.

 

I'll add... engagement. 

 

Yeah I do like it. I started out liking it, then when I finally really got into the IE games and how to win them, started to shift towards not liking it, and now I'm back at liking it, but for different reasons.

 

I like it because it adds transparency to the combat. It makes it clear to see who's free to move and who's not, and I've been successfully using it to get my strikers to strike with effect and impunity. I also enjoy the broad range of tools the game gives us to break it when one of those squishies does get engaged.

 

My original reason for liking it -- that it provides a way to control the battlefield through positioning -- is now secondary and only applies to some fights. I did always dislike the way the IE games made it so you could only hold a chokepoint by putting two toons literally shoulder-to-shoulder in it, and then only when it's really narrow. 

 

Another thing I like is the removal of hard restrictions with regards to gear. It lets me experiment a lot more, even if I end up in more or less the same place (squishy wizards, tanky fighters). 

 

I also enjoy engagement. I think it adds a proper system in place of "I attack the first guy I targeted until the end of time". Now you can catch someone on the way and force them to fight. Another layer of strategy, cool.

 

Engagement is the aspect I wanna see improved. I like this idea of setting a line of front during the battle. When you manage to do so, it even gives some really cool setup for several spells and abilities. The most obvious is line-shaped spells like ray of fire, when you manage to engage enough enemies with little frontliners and can hit 'em all with these spells/abilities, it feels good :>

But right now it doesn't seem to work well. Pathfinding doesn't help in its current state.

 

Yeah it could use a lot of improvements.

 

Intelligent enemies like other adventurers should try their best to take out dpsing characters first and they should brake engagement when it benefits them but they never do.

 

Path finding would be much better if they reduced the size of containing circles. I would rather have them tiny bit on top of one another than seeing most of the spiders standing during combat because the queen is so big.

 

In general engagement is an improvement but as you said it requires more work.


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#11
PrimeJunta

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Yeah pathfinding needs work.

 

IMO it should have different containing circles for friendlies and hostiles, letting you squeeze past a friendly but be blocked by a hostile. (Same thing obviously for the opposition.)


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#12
Kimuji

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Path finding would be much better if they reduced the size of containing circles. I would rather have them tiny bit on top of one another than seeing most of the spiders standing during combat because the queen is so big.

 

In general engagement is an improvement but as you said it requires more work.

Yes that's my feeling as well, the characters hitboxes are too large and it messes with path finding. They should make them a bit smaller. I also remeber that the IE games had some sort of shove mechanic when a NPC wanted to reach a spot and ran into an ally on their way to destination.

 

Yeah pathfinding needs work.

 

IMO it should have different containing circles for friendlies and hostiles, letting you squeeze past a friendly but be blocked by a hostile. (Same thing obviously for the opposition.)

Yeah that's more or less what I'm refering to.


Edited by Kimuji, 04 April 2015 - 05:00 AM.

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#13
Kal Adan

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Hey, you pretty much listed them.

 

I'll add... engagement.

I like what they tried to do, but execution leaves much to be desired.

 

I often see enemies teleporting, but I can't click on enemy (because teleportation is taking place) so my characters have to move and as effect I get disengagement attack. Or my character is moving around to engage his target, only to be hit by a disengagement attack. I end up moving my characters in straight lines to engage enemies and avoid accidental disengagement attacks.

 

Other than that I think it's better than what we had.



#14
KDubya

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In addition to what you listed in the OP I also like the grimoire spell system.

 

I like how you can add spells to your book from other's books after you have defeated them. I like how you can have four spells per level to choose from and can use any of them as needed. Need four cones of fire? - No problem. It combines the tactical flexibility of a sorcerer with the strategic flexibility of a wizard. On top of it you can swap to a different grimoire if you really need a completely different spell book.


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#15
crabe

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And also the interface that is more player friendly. And the slow/fast mode is great too. There are a lot of little details that make the game more confortable


Edited by crabe, 04 April 2015 - 05:48 AM.

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#16
BugsVendor

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In addition to what you listed in the OP I also like the grimoire spell system.

 

I like how you can add spells to your book from other's books after you have defeated them. I like how you can have four spells per level to choose from and can use any of them as needed. Need four cones of fire? - No problem. It combines the tactical flexibility of a sorcerer with the strategic flexibility of a wizard. On top of it you can swap to a different grimoire if you really need a completely different spell book.

 

Yeah this is cool.

 

Remember the old system when you had to learn individual spells?

 

You would always take just fireballs, and all the standard stuff because all the others were to situational and it was too much of an effort to sleep before every encounter just so you could use that one spell that made sense only in this specific situation.

 

Now that defensive spell or some paralyse is there and you can use it without blocking yourself for majority of the encounters.



#17
Gallenger

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On top of what everybody has already mentioned;

 

The *intent* for class design was *really* solid in this game - there's almost no class I've messed with whose existence consists of purely auto-attacking for an entire encounter - which was by far the majority of instances in IE games.  You've almost always got something you *could* or should be doing in combat outside of auto-attacking, and that livens things up quite a bit for me.  It makes combat exactly what I want it to be. 

 

I also *really* appreciate the fast-forward function, I spent 63 hours on my first playthrough, but had they put me at BG1 speed, it'd have taken 80 lol. 


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#18
PrimeJunta

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@BugsVendor I at least eventually grew out of the fireball phase. In my latest attempt at BG2 I'm running as a ranger/cleric with Jan as my sidekick, and it's clearly the easiest run I've had so far. I think Jan packs one or two fireballs for emergencies but I relatively rarely end up using them because there are better ways to deal with almost all situations there. A fireball is rarely the optimal solution for a combat problem. 



#19
sparklecat

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I think you just don't appreciate fireballs enough, buddy.



#20
Gallenger

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Well there was that famous D&D optimization board thread about turning mage into the "batman" by dropping evocation ;)







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