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k1rage

Limerick edit thread 2

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this needs to continue as it was an important discussion on the merits of censorship

 

all should be welcome to express their options openly hopefully the mods will respect that

 

It's not "censorship."  A puerile, nay infantile, public rage-debate took place (on both sides) and Obsidian remained 100% free to choose whatever "side" they wanted and tell everyone else to go stick their dangledowns in a wall socket.  They thought about it and they made a choice and they decided, freely, to do what they thought was best for the game based on what was going on so they could end the issue.  It is now ended.  Skullfracking the issue's corpse won't fix anything and mislabeling a public debate, no matter how vitriolic it was, that results in someone making up their own mind about how to react to the criticism they received as "censorship" serves only as an attempt to resurrect the whole thing.

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I think you should look up the definition of censorship. 

 

You're either dishonest or ignorant.

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/censorship

 

a :  the institution, system, or practice of censoring ...

 

: a person who examines books, movies, letters, etc., and removes things that are considered to be offensive, immoral, harmful to society, etc.

 

A person.  Not a government, not a law, a PERSON.

 

Did a person examine this game?  Yes.

Did they apply pressure, directly, to the developer of said game to remove something they felt was offensive, immoral, or harmful to society?  Yes.

 

This person is a censor.

They performed censorship by pressuring the developer to remove it.

 

About to go offensive (trigger warning); if I "pressure" someone into having sex, I'm not a rapist or immoral, right?  After all, they could have said no, they could have resisted, so it's alright, right?

 

So you can't tell the difference between advocacy and rape. Gotcha.

 

As someone who lives in a country where censorship is explicitly prohibited by the constitution I just have to point out that a "censor" is historically an official.

 

Censor: "an official who examines books, plays, news reports, motion pictures, radio and television programs, letters, cablegrams, etc., for the purpose of suppressing parts deemed objectionable on moral, political, military, or other grounds."

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/censor?s=t

 

You can expand the concept, sure, but you have to do it very carefully if you want to claim that censorship is a bad thing in any context.

 

oh yeah now we are going the not every censorship is bad...

 

YES EVERY FORM OF CENSORSHIPOT IS BAD....

 

Its like saying racism against white people is not as bad as racism against black people....

 Seriously.. There is no different. There is no good or bad discrimination. there are no differences  at all....

 

You equate advocacy with censorship and then insist that censorship is always bad... Do you comprehend how completely idiotic that is?

 

I'm not going to touch on the racism thing, since you seem incapable of understanding context.

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What you also all need to understand is:

 

Have your own personal opinions, fine.  Take a one man war against the twitter moron.  Hell, the whole LGBT crowd for all I care.  Nothing will happen to you.   YOU people are not a company.

 

Now, for one moment, take your self entitled heads out of your rear ends, and think about what that minority crowd could actually do to a large company.  Imagine you are an integral part of said company...hell even own the company perhaps.  You think Josh has the power to make these decisions alone?  You're idiots if you do.  He is just the public face for this.

 

Bigger companies than Obsidian have been brought to their knees by smaller groups than this before now.  Do I agree with censorship in any form?  Hell no.  Does it annoy me that these minority groups make us accept what they want, yet insist they do not have to listen to our voice?  Yes it royally pisses me off.

 

But I'm not a famous name, neither do I have a company to think about or shareholders and directors.

im sure the LGBT crowd accounts for a huge amount of their sales lol

 

"im sure the  radical and crazy minority of theLGBT crowd accounts for a huge amount of their sales lol"

 

I just fixed it a bit if you do not mind^^

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this whole ruse about the memorial is a good example how this rotten system we call democracy works

 

 

 

1) be a minority

 

2) ask

 

3) ask again

 

4) wait

 

5) receive

 

6) ktnxbye

 

7) brag about it on twitter

 

8 )   let Obsidian take all the heat from backers and grab some popcorn

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

....... while the majority (actual backers who's money made the game possible) can go suck a tail pipe.

I want to say to you hey friend thats that what democracy is about, but.... I hate to admit ...... democracy is at least heading that direction

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Obsidian got away with this IMO. Look what Dota 2 fans did when Valve didn't release a Halloween patch last year - they destroyed the game Metacritic rating (from 9 to 2) , and spammed facebook accounts of Volvo and Obama (yeah)

 

This is exactly why I don't identify myself as a gamer. That's pathetic.

 

 

You have a responsibility as a developer

 

 

And if you got your game through KICKSTARTER (i.e. other people's money) they you have even MORE responsibility to NOT LISTEN to some random whiner who didn't even back the game

 

 

Makes no difference.  The only difference between kickstarter and buying in a shop is you gave the money in advance.  Who's money exactly do you think gets things made?   Obviously not the consumer....

 

Kickstarter means you don't have to listen to that WHINING from that WHINER who WHINES about everything!

 

Except for my whining. My whining is important and should be addressed immediately or I'm gonna start making empty threats about never buying a game from you again!

 

OH like the person exactly did which thought this joke was transophobic and also did threat Obsidian with boycott.?  Damm I thought you were on her side...

 

My opinion is that everyone should shut up and play the awesome game Obsidian made.

 

I probably should shut up as well but I never follow my own advice. It's my only flaw.

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I would like to see Firedorn canonized as a saint in the Pillars of Eternity lore.  

 

I think a quest would be further amusing on it....

 

Where firedorn actually got impregnated by some strange Chimera like creature, hence is why he 'attempted' suicide but is now a soulless shape shifter. :p hahah

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People should really stop paying attention to what is said on Twitter. Twitter is just a huge ****storm generator.

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I think you should look up the definition of censorship. 

 

You're either dishonest or ignorant.

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/censorship

 

a :  the institution, system, or practice of censoring ...

 

: a person who examines books, movies, letters, etc., and removes things that are considered to be offensive, immoral, harmful to society, etc.

 

A person.  Not a government, not a law, a PERSON.

 

Did a person examine this game?  Yes.

Did they apply pressure, directly, to the developer of said game to remove something they felt was offensive, immoral, or harmful to society?  Yes.

 

This person is a censor.

They performed censorship by pressuring the developer to remove it.

 

About to go offensive (trigger warning); if I "pressure" someone into having sex, I'm not a rapist or immoral, right?  After all, they could have said no, they could have resisted, so it's alright, right?

 

So you can't tell the difference between advocacy and rape. Gotcha.

 

As someone who lives in a country where censorship is explicitly prohibited by the constitution I just have to point out that a "censor" is historically an official.

 

Censor: "an official who examines books, plays, news reports, motion pictures, radio and television programs, letters, cablegrams, etc., for the purpose of suppressing parts deemed objectionable on moral, political, military, or other grounds."

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/censor?s=t

 

You can expand the concept, sure, but you have to do it very carefully if you want to claim that censorship is a bad thing in any context.

 

oh yeah now we are going the not every censorship is bad...

 

YES EVERY FORM OF CENSORSHIPOT IS BAD....

 

Its like saying racism against white people is not as bad as racism against black people....

 Seriously.. There is no different. There is no good or bad discrimination. there are no differences  at all....

 

You equate advocacy with censorship and then insist that censorship is always bad... Do you comprehend how completely idiotic that is?

 

I'm not going to touch on the racism thing, since you seem incapable of understanding context.

 

I never said she should have said nothing, I do not even blame her for using the twitter censorship model that people have perfected. If I were I would boycott her products. I blame Obsidian for carving in to such a nutjob. So no i never censored her. I never went on twitter and attacked her

 

And yeah context does not matter. Racsim is Racsim. There are no differences at all.

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What you also all need to understand is:

 

Have your own personal opinions, fine.  Take a one man war against the twitter moron.  Hell, the whole LGBT crowd for all I care.  Nothing will happen to you.   YOU people are not a company.

 

Now, for one moment, take your self entitled heads out of your rear ends, and think about what that minority crowd could actually do to a large company.  Imagine you are an integral part of said company...hell even own the company perhaps.  You think Josh has the power to make these decisions alone?  You're idiots if you do.  He is just the public face for this.

 

Bigger companies than Obsidian have been brought to their knees by smaller groups than this before now.  Do I agree with censorship in any form?  Hell no.  Does it annoy me that these minority groups make us accept what they want, yet insist they do not have to listen to our voice?  Yes it royally pisses me off.

 

But I'm not a famous name, neither do I have a company to think about or shareholders and directors.

im sure the LGBT crowd accounts for a huge amount of their sales lol

 

"im sure the  radical and crazy minority of theLGBT crowd accounts for a huge amount of their sales lol"

 

I just fixed it a bit if you do not mind^^

 

thank you for that fix actually on the whole I know the LGBT crowd are reasonable, sensible, and good people

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My opinion is that everyone should shut up and play the awesome game Obsidian made.

 

I probably should shut up as well but I never follow my own advice. It's my only flaw.

 

That's the most sensible thing in this thread so far, except for the part about cute cats sleeping in a sink.

 

Going to do just that and I hope this whole situation calms down soon.

Edited by termokanden

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People should really stop paying attention to what is said on Twitter. Twitter is just a huge ****storm generator.

 

It would be nice if Sawyer read the forums opinion on these matters from actual backers and not fascist crazies on Twitter.

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"IE Mod Pillars of Eternity" <- Copy it into google

 

or

"Firedorn Pillars of Eternity Mod"

A Mod by Backers, for Pillars of Eternity. There you have your "Justice". Backer wrote Firedorn, Backer re-wrote Firedorn, Backers re-introduced original Firedorn.

I don't feel there's anymore to say or add.

Have fun. I'm going to jump into the latest patch now :)

Edited by Osvir

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Obsidian got away with this IMO. Look what Dota 2 fans did when Valve didn't release a Halloween patch last year - they destroyed the game Metacritic rating (from 9 to 2) , and spammed facebook accounts of Volvo and Obama (yeah)

 

This is exactly why I don't identify myself as a gamer. That's pathetic.

 

 

You have a responsibility as a developer

 

 

And if you got your game through KICKSTARTER (i.e. other people's money) they you have even MORE responsibility to NOT LISTEN to some random whiner who didn't even back the game

 

 

Makes no difference.  The only difference between kickstarter and buying in a shop is you gave the money in advance.  Who's money exactly do you think gets things made?   Obviously not the consumer....

 

Kickstarter means you don't have to listen to that WHINING from that WHINER who WHINES about everything!

 

Except for my whining. My whining is important and should be addressed immediately or I'm gonna start making empty threats about never buying a game from you again!

 

OH like the person exactly did which thought this joke was transophobic and also did threat Obsidian with boycott.?  Damm I thought you were on her side...

 

My opinion is that everyone should shut up and play the awesome game Obsidian made.

 

I probably should shut up as well but I never follow my own advice. It's my only flaw.

 

 

I would love to but I'm stuck in Heritage Hill and have been for 3-4 days because of a bug.

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People should really stop paying attention to what is said on Twitter. Twitter is just a huge ****storm generator.

oh I couldn't agree more, oh how i wish twitter never existed

 

What I hate even more is when news outlets report what someone said on twitter as if its news

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Censorship is definitely the wrong term to use here - No one is being legally forced to do anything.

 

Caving to certain loud minorities on the other hand...

 

 

I like the new poem as a backhand to offendatrons.

 

That said, the original submission should've stayed.

 

Knowing the tenacity of modders who feel scorned, I'm sure we'll see a travelling bard version with full VO reciting these Limericks somewhere in the game as a mod. It's bound to happen.  :dancing:

Censorship is not only forced by law. As I said you are pretty naive if you believe that is the case. 

 

A beautiful point my good man in fact most censorship is not caused by government bodies

 

Has nothing to do with law even.  FACT:  NOBODY IS BEING FORCED TO DO ANYTHING, PERIOD.  People on both sides spoke out.  It doesn't matter who "started it."  a public debate occurred and Obsidian remained 100% perfectly free to do some introspection about the issue and react in whatever way they felt was appropriate and best for their company and the game and the community.  It simply wasn't "censorship" in any way, shape or form.  It was Obsidian making up its own mind about how to best respond to criticism, and the whole (rather puerile) incident highlights precisely what the founding fathers believed was important about free speech:  public debate, even nasty ones, resulting in societal change and progress.

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this whole ruse about the memorial is a good example how this rotten system we call democracy works

 

 

 

1) be a minority

 

2) ask

 

3) ask again

 

4) wait

 

5) receive

 

6) ktnxbye

 

7) brag about it on twitter

 

8 )   let Obsidian take all the heat from backers and grab some popcorn

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

....... while the majority (actual backers who's money made the game possible) can go suck a tail pipe.

No one has it as easy as minorities. Lucky Duckies!

 

 

I'm a minority and I've definitely put up with trouble because of it but it would be stupid to suggest there aren't people who abuse whatever angles they can.

In life, we all face situations where we have certain advantages and disadvantages that change depending on context.  Censorship is never the answer for promoting equality.  Censorship is abuse.

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Let's open a Church of Firedorn.

He can be the God of individualism, free speech, diversity and humor.

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"The Courier was the worst of all of them. The worst by far. When he died the first time, he must have met the devil, and then killed him."

 

 

Is your mom hot? It may explain why guys were following her ?

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"IE Mod Pillars of Eternity" <- Copy it into google

 

A Mod by Backers, for Pillars of Eternity. There you have your "Justice". Backer wrote Firedorn, Backer re-wrote Firedorn, Backers re-introduced original Firedorn.

 

Have fun. I'm going to jump into the latest patch now :)

 There was already a mod a few days earlier that removed the message. This is not about the message it is about censorship. Like I care what someone wrote as a backer messages on some gravestone...

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inb4 Cucksidian delets this thread too

 

 

"Obsidian today has committed a terrible sin

 

And let the real terrorists win.

 

What people thought was mild and tame

 

The monsters censored a video game.

 

Now they changed what was used to be said.

 

And their reputation is completely dead."

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I never said she should have said nothing, I do not even blame her for using the twitter censorship model that people have perfected. If I were I would boycott her products. I blame Obsidian for carving in to such a nutjob. So no i never censored her. I never went on twitter and attacked her

 

And yeah context does not matter. Racsim is Racsim. There are no differences at all.

 

Prove that Obs "caved in" and not merely agreed.

 

You think context doesn't matter because you are ignorant of the context.

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People should really stop paying attention to what is said on Twitter. Twitter is just a huge ****storm generator.

 

If only it was that easy. These kinds of ****storms bleed over to other sites and even other forms of media. Social media has been proven to be a very effective and dangerous tool. 

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inb4 Cucksidian delets this thread too

 

 

"Obsidian today has committed a terrible sin

 

And let the real terrorists win.

 

What people thought was mild and tame

 

The monsters censored a video game.

 

Now they changed what was used to be said.

 

And their reputation is completely dead."

 

Nice!!!  Mind I i get this tattoo'd on my ass?

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I'd just like to say that there was very little to be offended about in the original limerick, and there was absolutely nothing transphobic in it. It's sad that Obsidian would buckle to the complaints of a Twitter user who wants to "#KillAllMen."

 

With that said I still support Obsidian and will continue to buy your games because I'm not quick to be offended. And I think the new limerick is a hilarious mockery of the handful of people who misread a dumb joke.

 

The worst news is that this is what most people will be discussing about when it comes to Pillars of Eternity instead of how damn good of a game it is. Obsidian would have been better off to ignore this than even entertaining the whining of a tiny group of ignorant people.

Edited by Scorpio
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I explained my reasoning in the Memorial thread before, so I'll just leave this here.

46290420.jpg

Edited by NopeNaw

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Even if not, just his mentioning in passing in a book or whatever.  Thats probably 100% possible with mods, given that the text is probably just in some string table actually.

 

You can make a damn Holy Book of Firedorn, if you're that derranged.

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