Update 93: Patch 1.03 - Important Community Fixes

[Twilights_Bard]

As a backer, if there is some reason your content needs to be changed, they will contact you. So stop worrying?

They replaced a bad joke that upset some people with a good joke that rhymes better. This is not the hill to die on and everyone should just move on.

 

 

The question still remains, and it's not a case about it being a hill to die on.  It's a question of that so many tombstones could not have taken that long to go through and vet for changes.  It's a question of what were they doing that some slipped through?  Or a case of miscommunication, what someone didn't get offended by, someone else did?  It's not about this one joke, but what else slipped through the cracks, and why?

 

I simply think it's a fair question for someone who put their money into the game as a backer to ask.

[Varana]

Well, the "was not vetted" stuff is the usual PR bollocks (as every PR speak is); it would've required a very special mindset to understand the content in the way that it was understood, and while there may be some twisted minds working at Obsidian , they're usually not twisted in that way.

So what.

[Khorgor]

I weas absolutely for keeping the old Joke, but the new one makes fun of Outragers and the whole situation, so lets keep it.

 

@Obsidian, maybe check who is complaining on Twitter next time, a person who says its OK to put all men into conzentration camps should not be a person one takes seriously.

[Azradun]

As a backer, if there is some reason your content needs to be changed, they will contact you. So stop worrying?

 

They replaced a bad joke that upset some people with a good joke that rhymes better. This is not the hill to die on and everyone should just move on.

 

 

As a long time customer of Obsidian (loved Neverwinter 2, especially Mask of the Betrayer), I'm not very happy to see anyone with enough Twitter following can easily remove content from your game *they* find offensive. I'd like to buy a game and own it, and not it being retroactively censored by other people. I pay today and content disappears tomorrow, because it didn't met someone's taste? You know what I find offensive? Censorship, having grown in communist Poland back in the day.

 

At least I can make an informed decision and not buy the game now. I got my salary today and was deciding which of the new games to buy - well, as I am offended by censorship (reminds me of Gierek, Jaruzelski and United Communist Party of Poland which I remember too well), I won't be backing this game. I'll wait a year or two for a sale. I can

 

Yeah, I know - I'll buy a Polish game instead. They don't cave in to loud censors.

[Dark_Ansem]

It's a tad disappointing, I admit. And does not bode well for the future.

[Fenrir007]

 

Absolutely disgusting to see Obsidian cave in like this, and spitting in the faces of their backers in the process. The overwhelming majority was in favor of KEEPING IT, as you could see simply by checking the official forums or other places.

 

If I'm offended by wizards being in the game because mystical things are against my religion, will you also pull them from it?

 

The vocal population were present in that debate. I, for example, have an opinion regarding the issue, but chose not to share it. I highly doubt the forum objectively represents the 'overwhelming majority'.

 

 

By staying silent you chose to disregard your vote. That is on you.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Fenrir007

[BAdler]

"Once it was brought to our attention, it followed the same vetting process as all of our other content. Prior to release, we worked with many of our backers to iterate on content they asked to be put into the game that didn't strike the right tone."

 

So this means that said poem didn't get screened before release, okay... Are we going to be seeing more changes being made to backer content that wasn't checked before release as well or was this really the only one?

What tone are you referring to exactly?

 

If we happened to miss content, then yes, we will change it if we feel it is necessary.

 

Like Feargus mentioned in the update, we worked with many backers to revise their content for myriad reasons.

[Fenrir007]

 

Absolutely disgusting to see Obsidian cave in like this, and spitting in the faces of their backers in the process. The overwhelming majority was in favor of KEEPING IT, as you could see simply by checking the official forums or other places.

 

If I'm offended by wizards being in the game because mystical things are against my religion, will you also pull them from it?

 

Yes, but the backer was the one who paid for the pledge and agreed to have the limerick changed into a different one. It's their money, they get to decide what to do with it.

 

 

You speak as if he had a choice. Did he?

[TechRaptor_SJ]

Write for TechRaptor, and I did reach out regarding the change, but I would like to publicly ask questions here, as there's been no response.

 

 

Backer Content

 

It's come to our attention that a piece of backer-created content has made it into Pillars of Eternity that was not vetted. Once it was brought to our attention, it followed the same vetting process as all of our other content. Prior to release, we worked with many of our backers to iterate on content they asked to be put into the game that didn't strike the right tone.

 

In the case of this specific content, we checked with the backer who wrote it and asked them about changing it. We respect our backers greatly, and felt it was our duty to include them in the process. They gave us new content which we have used to replace what is in the game. To be clear, we followed the process we would have followed had this content been vetted prior to the release of the product.

 

We appreciate the faith you have all given us into making Pillars of Eternity the great game that it has become, and we appreciate the strength of conviction all of you bring to every conversation we have together.

 

Sincerely,

Feargus Urquhart, CEO
Obsidian Entertainment, Inc.

 

1. Is there any reason why the restrictions or vetting process in terms of what content is deemed acceptable or tone correct hasn't been released at this point? As pointed out, we have a game that has the birth of children without souls, hangings, and various other content that people may find offensive. It may answer several questions regarding the change. Considering it's within a file of the game, it would seem to be noted in a change log.

2. Why was the change not disclosed in the original Change Log and patch notes, considering the issue that was brought forward made several gaming news sites, and was a topic of discussion?

[Litany]

First they came for the poorly written jokes, and I did not speak out because seriously it's not a big deal get over it you babies.

What if they forced this poor holy being, this Backer amongst Backers (Peace Be Upon Him), to change his bad writing to slightly better writing? Can we trust Obsidian anymore??

[ChipMHazard]

 

 

 

Absolutely disgusting to see Obsidian cave in like this, and spitting in the faces of their backers in the process. The overwhelming majority was in favor of KEEPING IT, as you could see simply by checking the official forums or other places.

 

If I'm offended by wizards being in the game because mystical things are against my religion, will you also pull them from it?

 

If I may, I think I like the new one better. It's actually funny.

 

 

Aye indeed it is. But the supposed precedent this sets isn't.

Which is also I would like further clarification on this as reassurance that this won't happen again, if only to show that this wasn't to appease one clearly crazy person on twitter i.e. I would like to know which tone backer content has to live up to. 

 

Precedent? This isn't the Supreme Court. The content changed because someone said it was offensive, Obsidian agreed, and they asked the backer to submit something more appropriate.

 

I hope that's ALWAYS what they do, and if there's something else that they feel needs to be changed they don't waste time in doing so.

 

 

Aye and what happens when someone else finds something else to be offensive? When does it stop now that they know it can be done? That's the precedent. 

 

I hope it never becomes like that because there would be no end to it and we would have to kiss artistic integrity goodbye. 

There's a difference between editing content because it didn't live up to your standards and giving into a form of censorship because a disgruntled individual put pressure on you. I do hope it's the former and not the latter, but so far I'm not convinced. 

[Fenrir007]

First they came for the poorly written jokes, and I did not speak out because seriously it's not a big deal get over it you babies.

 

What if they forced this poor holy being, this Backer amongst Backers (Peace Be Upon Him), to change his bad writing to slightly better writing? Can we trust Obsidian anymore??

 

Don't know abotu you, but I fear when Obsidian starts to tailor their games to people that are openly misandrist and don't have enough reading comprehension to understand what the joke was all about.

[ChipMHazard]

 

"Once it was brought to our attention, it followed the same vetting process as all of our other content. Prior to release, we worked with many of our backers to iterate on content they asked to be put into the game that didn't strike the right tone."

 

So this means that said poem didn't get screened before release, okay... Are we going to be seeing more changes being made to backer content that wasn't checked before release as well or was this really the only one?

What tone are you referring to exactly?

 

If we happened to miss content, then yes, we will change it if we feel it is necessary.

 

Like Feargus mentioned in the update, we worked with many backers to revise their content for myriad reasons.

 

 

Good and thank you for the reply. Although I would very much still like to know what tone exactly is being referred to here. Will I be able to purchase future content with the knowledge that it will carry the same dark tones as the main game? - Unless of course it's decided to make it lighter hearted by design.

Hopefully you can see why this is important to someone like me: A fan of more adult fantasy settings, as they represent a more realistic/immersive universe. 

Edited April 3, 2015 by ChipMHazard

[Litany]

 

 

 

 

Absolutely disgusting to see Obsidian cave in like this, and spitting in the faces of their backers in the process. The overwhelming majority was in favor of KEEPING IT, as you could see simply by checking the official forums or other places.

 

If I'm offended by wizards being in the game because mystical things are against my religion, will you also pull them from it?

 

If I may, I think I like the new one better. It's actually funny.

 

 

Aye indeed it is. But the supposed precedent this sets isn't.

Which is also I would like further clarification on this as reassurance that this won't happen again, if only to show that this wasn't to appease one clearly crazy person on twitter i.e. I would like to know which tone backer content has to live up to. 

 

Precedent? This isn't the Supreme Court. The content changed because someone said it was offensive, Obsidian agreed, and they asked the backer to submit something more appropriate.

 

I hope that's ALWAYS what they do, and if there's something else that they feel needs to be changed they don't waste time in doing so.

 

 

Aye and what happens when someone else finds something else to be offensive? When does it stop now that they know it can be done? That's the precedent. 

 

I hope it never becomes like that because there would be no end to it and we would have to kiss artistic integrity goodbye. 

There's a difference between editing content because it didn't live up to your standards and giving into a form of censorship because a disgruntled individual put pressure on you. I do hope it's the former and not the latter, but so far I'm not convinced. 

 

I suppose that depends on if Obsidian agrees that it is indeed offensive. If they do, like they did here, then they'll act accordingly. The weird doomsday scenarios I'm hearing involve Obsidian not having any opinions of their own and just kowtowing to whatever random people ask of them on Twitter, which I've not known Obsidian to do.

 

Obsidian is good and they did good here. (And censorship doesn't mean what you think it does.)

[Nonek]

I'll repeat myself, sorry to do so, I can't back a decision to cater to a Neo Nazi and a genocide advocate, and the insecure, entitled whiners who would support such individuals. That these twisted and immoral individuals are dictating what is moral and acceptable in a virtual construct is to me utterly preposterous. Surely you must see how hypocritical it is to say that this joke is unacceptable, while arguing for the death of half the worlds population and Ian Miles Cheung's equally repulsive views are acceptable?

 

I'm utterly speechless at the tacit support of such hateful bile spewing agendas.

[Azradun]

First they came for the poorly written jokes, and I did not speak out because seriously it's not a big deal get over it you babies.

 

What if they forced this poor holy being, this Backer amongst Backers (Peace Be Upon Him), to change his bad writing to slightly better writing? Can we trust Obsidian anymore??

 

I lived through communist Poland (was born in 1979) and I actually remember seeing censored books and unpublished stuff, because somebody, a political officer, decided it was "offensive" (to the Party or to the Russians). Seeing words changed now to conform to the new standard of "offensiveness" brings back the memories... and they are somewhat triggering.

[Litany]

 

First they came for the poorly written jokes, and I did not speak out because seriously it's not a big deal get over it you babies.

 

What if they forced this poor holy being, this Backer amongst Backers (Peace Be Upon Him), to change his bad writing to slightly better writing? Can we trust Obsidian anymore??

 

Don't know abotu you, but I fear when Obsidian starts to tailor their games to people that are openly misandrist and don't have enough reading comprehension to understand what the joke was all about.

 

lol not misandry! Won't someone think of the men??

 

The joke was stupid and bad and it is gone now and the world is better for it. Let us praise Obsidian for their mercy!

[Thegladoss]

I honestly don't think you're fooling anyone here with the PR-excuses that you simply missed it. You caved to pressure from a group of vocal SJW's and misandrists. Nothing at all about that joke was the slightest bit offensive, it only is when a sick mind reads it in a certain way. I don't believe that you guys saw it as offensive the first time around either, and are just forcing the backer to change it now because you don't want the bad press of being called "transmisogynistic" whatever that is.

 

That's totally your right of course as developer, but at least be honest about it. That way people can decide whether or not they want to trust you with their money in the future. I for one won't, a thing which really disappoints me.

[Litany]

I'll repeat myself, sorry to do so, I can't back a decision to cater to a Neo Nazi and a genocide advocate, and the insecure, entitled whiners who would support such individuals. That these twisted and immoral individuals are dictating what is moral and acceptable in a virtual construct is to me utterly preposterous. Surely you must see how hypocritical it is to say that this joke is unacceptable, while arguing for the death of half the worlds population and Ian Miles Cheung's equally repulsive views are acceptable?

 

I'm utterly speechless at the tacit support of such hateful bile spewing agendas.

I don't actually know what you're talking about but I thought the content in question was in poor taste and I neither support genocide nor do I know who Ian Miles Cheung is.

 

And while some folks have bad opinions, you'll find that even a broken clock is right twice a day.

[Dexter111]

The explanation is PR horse****.

 

It's pretty clear what's caused it, two factors: J.E. Sawyer and Twitter outrage, and now you've empowered a crazy person to come after you more and even stronger:

 

This was a rather great great post by a developer from a few days ago as to what "outrage culture" like this does to creative writing, specifically in relation to his game: http://elysianshadows.com/updates/how-recent-outrages-made-me-question-my-writing/

 

Now I'm going to constantly have to ask myself what design decisions and what writing, plot or questlines have been dumbed down and altered for the sake of "not offending anyone", what parts of the world ignore common sense for the sake of "inclusivity" and what topics will deliberately not be touched upon for the same reasons.

 

This is all rather perplexing, because the last game by Obsidian I played had fetus nazi zombies in it and giving the player the ability to perform abortions (last I remember nazis killed lots of people and abortion is a rather contentious topic) and even PoE has allusions and plot elements regarding genocide, rape, prejudice, matricide etc. What else will you remove from the game because someone felt "triggered" or decided to throw a Twitter ****storm?

[stkaye]

I really don't have a horse in this race, and I don't care at all about what some joke on a wall somewhere says. Obsidian certainly has the right to make sure that the content it produces is in line with everything else they put out into the world with their own names on it.

 

But I have to say that I hope the people who found this limerick offensive never find themselves playing a certain side-quest involving an irritable, evil wizard in Baldur's Gate 2. 

Edited April 3, 2015 by stkaye

[Vivian_Games]

I got excited when I heard the joke was replaced. then I saw what replaced it.

 

A straight up mocking of the trans women, including myself, who were upset about the joke.

 

Obsidian, your vetting process sucks. You almost got another purchase out of me but I guess not. Instead I'm just very disappointed.

[Envy]

Hopefully this will be the last time something like this happens. It's a wonderful game and I'd rather not see real life politics bring it low.

[DavidMinster]

RE my earlier post about the gc error, I rebooted my PC and the game works now, there are a few 'niggles; in the game still, I;ve had one random crash to desktop and there are some missing vocals, but, on the whole, generally a positive patch, the juddering audio for example, was driving me crazy, now it is fixed., thanks guys for reacting to some of the major in game problems. )

[Javik]

Well I will never be a customer of Obsidian again, the "If we happened to miss content" answer seems like an excuse. I don't wish to be a customer anymore, and you clearly don't want me as a customer so when will Obsidian be providing refunds / returns to people who bought the game via Steam. SOE were nice enough to provide that when some H1Z1 customers felt their changes were too much, Obsidian should do the same.