Are guns the ultimate weapons for each class?

[Tomice]

I'm a PoE beginner BG veteran trying to understand the combat system. I admit I haven't tested these things much yet, but this game is all about planning ahead without respec, so I wan't to know what I'm doing before building my party.

 

Heavy guns (arqebus/blunderbluss) are (seemingly) balanced through their long reload speed.

But then again, nothing keeps me from switching to another weapon after firing one shot, right?

 

So actually, the ideal way to fight seems to be:

- Scout ahead with a stealthy char

- Find group of enemies

- Fire a shot to lure a part of the group towards the rest of your party

- Greet the enemy with a gunshot from each of your chars (ideally augmented by per encounter + damage/debuff skills)

- Switch to the weapons you actually wanna use and finish what's left standing

- Don't reload your guns until the next encounter

 

Have I missed something? Is there any reason not use the second weapon slot on guns for everyone? (Except for casters who might want to use mass disabling spells as opener. But even they should probably fire one gunshot when they run out of potent spells before switching to their backup weapon).

 

I admit I'm not a huge fan of guns in fantasy games, so the seeming dominance of guns isn't exactly for me. Bows seem so lackluster in comparison

 

[Tigranes]

Doesn't switching weapons also have a recovery time? 

 

In terms of using them as main weapons, bows are a good choice because when you miss with an arquebus, that's like 25 seconds where you aren't doing any damage. 

[Scars Unseen]

Yeah, but the augmented gunpowder alpha strike is usually worth it, since dead enemies don't hit very hard.

[Tomice]

Doesn't switching weapons also have a recovery time? 

I don't think it depends on the weapon. So your melee chars should be able to fire a gun volley and switch to sword and shield before enemies reach them. But I might be wrong, that's why I'm asking.

[Arctic]

I use a gun for my main char(cypher) but not the others .. reload time and - accuracy is big against hight ac.  It changes from char to char. Even some times some weapon thats not of the best tipe is best couse its enchantment so ...

 

For example, tanks should be better with hachets but i use a flail on mine couse it gives 20% damage drained as stamina ...

[Dongom]

Everyone with guns (except tank(s)) and the Chanter aura that vastly reduces reload speed = lol

 

Ranger can get insanely low reload times with gun talents for some obscene consistent dps. Cipher gets insane resource gen with Blunder switching.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Dongom

[speeder]

I think the game weapons balancing is very broken.

 

Kana is the only character on my party with a gun.

 

Kana is the character htat most killed enemies and most dealed damages, because of that gun... For example fighting shadows, Kana is the only character that could kill them, the melee characters would get repeteadly frozen and die, and archers would miss over time more than the gun (example: suppose a archer can fire 20 times while a gun fired 3 times, the gun would hit twice, while the archers would hit like 10 times), and finally, archers keep doing 1 or 2 of damage, while the gun deals 15 damage+ to those enemies.

[Tigranes]

I think the game weapons balancing is very broken.

 

Kana is the only character on my party with a gun.

 

Kana is the character htat most killed enemies and most dealed damages, because of that gun... For example fighting shadows, Kana is the only character that could kill them, the melee characters would get repeteadly frozen and die, and archers would miss over time more than the gun (example: suppose a archer can fire 20 times while a gun fired 3 times, the gun would hit twice, while the archers would hit like 10 times), and finally, archers keep doing 1 or 2 of damage, while the gun deals 15 damage+ to those enemies.

 

That's multiple sets of issues. First, shadows have high damage reduction, as your bestiary will tell you. Weapons like 2-handed melee weapons and guns are specially suited to those enemies. If you use the same tactics against them of course your archers in particular will suffer. Second, if Kana is hitting things a lot and your archer is missing things a lot, you want to check how your archer has been built, because guns are not inherently more accurate than bows - its nothing to do with weapon balancing and everything to do with your characters. 

 

That said, I do think guns are pretty powerful. My cipher uses an arbalest which in terms of gameplay mechanics is basically a gun, and even with the slow reloading times it's just an all around very strong option. It would be interesting to have a basic jamming chance for guns - though I suppose then people would complain it's frustrating.

[Hurlshort]

I have all my characters with ranged weapons, they unload a volley, and then the tanks switch to melee and jump forward.  It seems like a good strategy, I usually get one kill right off the bat that way.  Wands/scepters seem pretty weak, but my wizard and priest that have them usually are busy casting spells if the fight is intense.

[Longknife]

The reload time on guns is like:

 

[Gromnir]

I have all my characters with ranged weapons, they unload a volley, and then the tanks switch to melee and jump forward.  It seems like a good strategy, I usually get one kill right off the bat that way.  Wands/scepters seem pretty weak, but my wizard and priest that have them usually are busy casting spells if the fight is intense.

it's a bit... mindless.  am not disagreeing that it is a good strategy-- we do the same thing.  our rogue, with the fine arbalest we picked up early, typical gets an eye-popping sneak attack.  is something not right about starting every battle the same way.  

 

we will note that there is a slight possibility that we have our wizard cast slicken immediate instead o' using a ranged weapon... 'cause we almost always use slicken.  also, we sometimes have our tank run forward immediately w/o firing ranged, but only there is a potential enemy aoe scenario or something similar.  

 

regardless, begin every battle identical is unlikely what the developers were envisioning.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Tigranes]

You'd think weapon switching takes a couple of seconds at least. But I suppose even then most of the time you'll be able to get out of the way due to the range of firearms. 

[Dongom]

The reload time on guns is like:

 

 

Not with a Chanter and the right talents/skill

Edited March 30, 2015 by Dongom

[Gallenger]

Having *some* bustin' guns makes sense - the crossbows aren't half bad either, they also reload slightly faster, so if you have a cleric or somebody you don't intend to micro a lot because you're saving their spells or something, a crossbow with a slightly faster reload speed, but still solid DPS, may be a trade you're willing to make.  I have a mix of all 3 ranged weapons because you can basically machine gun things with a bow with the proper attention to buffing action speed etc, etc. 

 

It's also somewhat historically accurate, since typically only a few shots were ever fired out of a gun before folks went to poking and hacking at each other with sharp and/or pointy things. 

Edited March 30, 2015 by Gallenger

[Whiteguy1x]

Guns are awesome, usually four people in the back with guns can kill one opponent before they even reach my tanks.  Hell anyone not guarding the front line i load up with a gun, it seems about them most effective thing to do.  Also my chanter has a phrase of his chant that lowers reload time so its not terrible 

[aiqidar]

The guns in this game are decent, but they need to add sniper rifles and light machine guns if they really want to make things interesting. I have a "go big or go home" philosophy when it comes to adding firearms to video games.

[ojthesimpson]

those tactics are what german fighter planes used to pull escorts of WW2 heavy bombers. seems reasonable that in a game pulling an enemy out of it's prepared position and splitting them up through confusion and making em think you're running away is realistic enough. 

 

combat isn't always charge in and line up like the ghostbusters and blast em. that's a careless way to fight in real life combat (pun intended)  and in POE 

[Shadenuat]

Their sustainable DPS seems pretty bad to me, so guns are only useful while you travel around nuking solo enemies. Once you get to meet huge groups or clear large chunks of enemies, like in Od Nua for example, my pick is on bows with speed/damage/rending additions.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Shadenuat

[SeekDWay]

The lower the number of enemies the better guns are and that is most of the time from my experience. I do not think ranger weapons are inherently broken, it's more of a global issue with combat in the game.

[Malignacious]

What's the problem exactly, firearms are the most advanced ranged weapons in the world, of course they should deal more damage.

 

I also love the thematic contrast they bring.

[vikke]

I think the guns (and "alpha strike") are a good thing. Reminds me of real world musketeer lines firing and engaging with swords Though they need to fix the blunderbuss cipher thingie.

[Tomice]

What's the problem exactly, firearms are the most advanced ranged weapons in the world, of course they should deal more damage.

Well, nowadays guns are undoubtedly superior, but the game setting is approx tech level 1400AD.

 

In reality, bows were more than viable until repeating firearms were invented around 1800. Their main problem was their immense skill (and strenght) requirement.

One could learn how to decently fire a gun/crossbow in a week, while you were only a mediocre bowmen after a year of training.

Quality bows also took long to produce (I believe 2 years for a Mongol recurve) and required rare materials (Yew became practically extinct in Britain, they had to import it large scale).

So in fact, bows were the weapon of choice for elite professional ranged soldiers, while guns were used by massed levies. Their firepower was practically equal to crossbows and early guns, while their rate of fire was 3-5 times higher.

 

In gameplay terms, I would really like that each option is viable, and bows seem very inferior right now due to how DR works.

[CaptainMace]

I take that you haven't tried the extraordinary arbalests yet. Guns are so overrated

[Tigranes]

I take that you haven't tried the extraordinary arbalests yet. Guns are so overrated

 

Hold-Wall has my level 5 cipher crit for 70 damage, yes. Much better than an enchanted blunderbuss.

[Kinowek]

As CaptainMace said, guns will seem great right up until you get or make some decent Arbalests(the winch crossbow).  Arbalests have the highest Interrupt rating(base), most damage, same speed of reloading as an Arqebus, and longer range (12m vs 10m).  They also can inherently knock down enemies(cause Prone state).

 

Arbalests are the best.

 

That said, I gave a certain NPC priest and chanter upgraded Arqebuses, simply because they either fit thematically or came with one. 

 

Ranged weapons in general are strong in this game, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.