Journalism and bias in the gaming industry

[Malcador]

Who knew "it was not aimed at gamers" could be variable.

 

Its good that Bioware has taken up the torch of " trying to provide a truly inclusive gaming environment for all "

Sure, sure, you mean "inclusive romancing environment".

[Meshugger]

 

 

The statistics the study relied on were sloppy, but acceptable for the conclusions it was trying to support. Sociologists have an implicit understanding that the sample sizes used generally give fairly low confidence levels.

 

Applying those statistics as "proof" that "gamers don't need diversity" is a dire statistical error, however. When applied at that scope, the sample size gives a confidence level lower than 50%! It's worse odds than that of a coin toss, and you're not seeing anybody trying to justify their conclusions with "well, it came up heads, so I must be right"! And it's the height of irresponsibility, if not malice, to claim that the study that's simply not applicable outside of its scope due to this issue was "intentionally buried by lying feminists" because "it didn't fit the agenda". If I believed for a moment that Sargon of Akkad knew anything about statistics, I'd have to hold him in absolute contempt for knowingly abusing science to support his crusade against feminism. Thankfully, I know not to attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity.

 

So what? The paper is flawed and Sargon used their very own material against them. You can bold your text and claim contempt as much as you like, but that doesn't change the point.

 

 

 

Serious question: how good you feel your grasp of statistics is? Because I think you might be fundamentally incapable of understanding why this video is such a huge problem. I mean, it was my whole point  that Sargon didn't "use their own material against them"; he took some statistics completely out of context and proceeded to claim that the people who are not taking them out of context are lying by omission for doing so. Which is disgustingly spineless. Aren't gamergaters supposed to be crusading against exactly this sort of "tainting [institution]* with an agenda"? Or are you seriously believing anti-feminism isn't an agenda?

 

*in this case, science

 

 

So? It's a qualitative study as it often is in social studies, then the amount is not important. One can easily assume that you do not need forced diversity based on common sense. But in the end, you have to ask him if you want to clarify his reasons.

 

What's this with anti-feminism? We cannot even decide what feminism is.

 

 

 

 

And where you finally said that games really do need diversity without telling how that would be implemented without turning into tyranny?

 

Do you know how to solve world hunger? Or to prevent wars?

 

Are you allowed to see world hunger and wars as problems humanity faces, despite not having a solution for them?

 

 

What? World hunger and wars cause death. What death does the lack of diverse representation of different minorities in video games cause?

 

 

 

So any problem that doesn't cause deaths is now not worth talking about. Oh wait, that... includes... everything gamergate is complaining about? How does that even work?

 

Then don't lump it together with issues that intuitively imply death. You still haven't A) given a reason why diversity in video games (instead of diverse choice of games) is important and B) how that will be enforced without turning into tyranny.

[Hurlshort]

Yes, Bioware is stuck in a rut where they write the same narrative and spend too much time focusing on romances and breaking gender stereotypes.  But I don't see how it is pandering, that seems to be important to the writers and that is why they push it into their games.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Hurlshot

[Meshugger]

Leigh Alexander simply talked **** and effectively got ****.

 

Kinda relevant: 

 

 

[comments disabled]

 

Hahahahohwow

Edited April 21, 2015 by Meshugger

[Malcador]

Yes, Bioware is stuck in a rut where they write the same narrative and spend too much time focusing on romances and breaking gender stereotypes.  But I don't see how it is pandering, that seems to be important to the writers and that is why they push it into their games.

Either that or they have some sort of agenda and that's why they push it even if it seems hacky (Cortez struck me that way). Probably a bit of both at this point, it's become a good marketing point for them and it's not as if the average consumer takes a lot to clap and smile over.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

Serious question: how good you feel your grasp of statistics is? Because I think you might be fundamentally incapable of understanding why this video is such a huge problem. I mean, it was my whole point  that Sargon didn't "use their own material against them"; he took some statistics completely out of context and proceeded to claim that the people who are not taking them out of context are lying by omission for doing so. Which is disgustingly spineless. Aren't gamergaters supposed to be crusading against exactly this sort of "tainting [institution]* with an agenda"? Or are you seriously believing anti-feminism isn't an agenda?

 

*in this case, science

 

 

So? It's a qualitative study as it often is in social studies, then the amount is not important. 

 

 

 

What the hell is that even supposed to mean? The amount of what?

 

 

 

 

You still haven't A) given a reason why diversity in video games (instead of diverse choice of games) is important and B) how that will be enforced without turning into tyranny.

 

 

 

Actually, I did, multiple times, over the course of the many, many incarnations of this thread, and I'm getting real tired of constantly repeating myself on the issue. So I hope you'll excuse me if I won't do it again, just to have some imbecile ask the same ****ing question two weeks later. These threads are archived. Read back.

[BruceVC]

Who knew "it was not aimed at gamers" could be variable.

 

Its good that Bioware has taken up the torch of " trying to provide a truly inclusive gaming environment for all "

Sure, sure, you mean "inclusive romancing environment".

 

 

 

Yes, Bioware is stuck in a rut where they write the same narrative and spend too much time focusing on romances and breaking gender stereotypes.  But I don't see how it is pandering, that seems to be important to the writers and that is why they push it into their games.

Either that or they have some sort of agenda and that's why they push it even if it seems hacky (Cortez struck me that way). Probably a bit of both at this point, it's become a good marketing point for them and it's not as if the average consumer takes a lot to clap and smile over.

 

 

You correct about that Malc, I am referring primarily to Bioware contribution around inclusivity for the LGBT community 

 

Its important and appreciated work and don't think its easy for them...they receive loads of criticism and sometimes its nothing but homophobia pretending to be "constructive " 

 

That's why Bioware is such a remarkable company because they have remained true to there principles around inclusivity at the expense of losing some old fans 

Edited April 21, 2015 by BruceVC

[Keyrock]

Remember Mighty No. 9?  Remember their community manager who took it upon herself to insult backers, deny backers forum access (which was a backer reward) based on politics, injected her political views all over those forums, and burned a bunch of bridges?  She's finally been replaced.

 

http://techraptor.net/content/takeaway-mighty-no-9s-former-community-manager

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Yes it's nice to see them regress, though I would say they're not inclusive if you want good writing, plotting, strong characters with some brains or self motivation, or a refined sense of humour. Still if you want blatant flattery of the protagonist, idiotic NPC's, a narrative that is repetitive and dull, antagonists that are pathetic cliches and lots (and I mean lots) of endless grinding then they are perfectly suited to ones taste.

 

Edit: Sorry I forgot the sub par Joss Whedon humour, almost Wildean in its subtlety.

Good writing is hard bro.

 

Still have not played Ultima.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Remember Mighty No. 9?  Remember their community manager who took it upon herself to insult backers, deny backers forum access (which was a backer reward) based on politics, injected her political views all over those forums, and burned a bunch of bridges?  She's finally been replaced.

 

http://techraptor.net/content/takeaway-mighty-no-9s-former-community-manager

NOMAAM strikes again!

[Meshugger]

 

 

Serious question: how good you feel your grasp of statistics is? Because I think you might be fundamentally incapable of understanding why this video is such a huge problem. I mean, it was my whole point  that Sargon didn't "use their own material against them"; he took some statistics completely out of context and proceeded to claim that the people who are not taking them out of context are lying by omission for doing so. Which is disgustingly spineless. Aren't gamergaters supposed to be crusading against exactly this sort of "tainting [institution]* with an agenda"? Or are you seriously believing anti-feminism isn't an agenda?

 

*in this case, science

 

So? It's a qualitative study as it often is in social studies, then the amount is not important.

 

 

 

What the hell is that even supposed to mean? The amount of what?

 

Amount of people interviewed. But you know what? I will contact him personally and see if he responds. We leave it at that.

 

 

 

You still haven't A) given a reason why diversity in video games (instead of diverse choice of games) is important and B) how that will be enforced without turning into tyranny.

 

 

Actually, I did, multiple times, over the course of the many, many incarnations of this thread, and I'm getting real tired of constantly repeating myself on the issue. So I hope you'll excuse me if I won't do it again, just to have some imbecile ask the same ****ing question two weeks later. These threads are archived. Read back.

 

Oh darling, don't quit now.

[Meshugger]

Remember Mighty No. 9?  Remember their community manager who took it upon herself to insult backers, deny backers forum access (which was a backer reward) based on politics, injected her political views all over those forums, and burned a bunch of bridges?  She's finally been replaced.

 

http://techraptor.net/content/takeaway-mighty-no-9s-former-community-manager

 

Aaaah, God is truly smiling down upon us.

 

Background info for context:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZWHUnFqPhg

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

 

Serious question: how good you feel your grasp of statistics is? Because I think you might be fundamentally incapable of understanding why this video is such a huge problem. I mean, it was my whole point  that Sargon didn't "use their own material against them"; he took some statistics completely out of context and proceeded to claim that the people who are not taking them out of context are lying by omission for doing so. Which is disgustingly spineless. Aren't gamergaters supposed to be crusading against exactly this sort of "tainting [institution]* with an agenda"? Or are you seriously believing anti-feminism isn't an agenda?

 

*in this case, science

 

So? It's a qualitative study as it often is in social studies, then the amount is not important.

 

 

 

What the hell is that even supposed to mean? The amount of what?

 

Amount of people interviewed. 

 

 

Okay, whatever, call it a qualitative study (my experience with those is solely limited to individual case studies). But literally the first thing I was taught about qualitative studies that they're descriptive, not predictive. Treating one as if it did have any sort of predictive power is even more of a bumble than scope insensitivity!

 

And let's not forget the ethical side of this whole thing, because we're still talking ethics. The main thrust of Sargon's video was "the feminists are lying and intentionally burying the study because it doesn't fit the agenda". Faulty understanding of statistics and/or research methodology I'm okay with, throwing ****-flinging hissy fits based on that faulty understanding, not so much.

[Nonek]

 

That's why Bioware is such a remarkable company because they have remained true to there principles around inclusivity at the expense of losing some old fans 

 

 

This is hilarious, I really don't know how he manages to go down in my estimation with each post, i'm going to have to start studying quantum states soon.

[BruceVC]

 

 

That's why Bioware is such a remarkable company because they have remained true to there principles around inclusivity at the expense of losing some old fans 

 

 

This is hilarious, I really don't know how he manages to go down in my estimation with each post, i'm going to have to start studying quantum states soon.

 

 

 

"quantum states " 

 

You funny Nonek...I'll give you that  

[Malcador]

You correct about that Malc, I am referring primarily to Bioware contribution around inclusivity for the LGBT community 

 

Its important and appreciated work and don't think its easy for them...they receive loads of criticism and sometimes its nothing but homophobia pretending to be "constructive " 

 

That's why Bioware is such a remarkable company because they have remained true to there principles around inclusivity at the expense of losing some old fans

Hm, perhaps, one can not like an approach of requisite homosexual NPCs or the way they are set up and not be bigoted. But it is common. As for Bioware losing old fans, again, it's a bit simple and convenient to say they're losing them just because they have gay people in their games or what have you.

 

Speaking of them in tones one would for an organization doing important social work is a bit much though, they're in it for the cash, remember

[Nonek]

Still i'll give Bioware this their blunt and clumsy emphasis on sexuality and gender, rather than treating it as perfectly normal and unremarkable as say Obsidian does with Arcade, is not particular to them. The whole movement to insert and highlight sexuality and gender at the expense of characterisation also uses this clumsy, preaching tone that we're all familiar with now that SJF's have revealed themselves (#killallmen) to be hateful and sure of their superiority to anyone whom does not follow their twisted and harmful ideology. Subtlety and viewpoints seem to be totally beyond them, but then again I suppose that when taking such a negative viewpoint of the world and its people, then they are bound to think in such absolute terms.

 

Still I personally prefer the Arcade manner, where he happens to be gay, no big deal, he's not going to act like a victim because of a trait that has probably existed as long as his species has been around, or proclaim himself a special snowflake because of it and spit on anyone whom doesn't share his status.

 

All ones own opinion however.

[Hurlshort]

Again, I'd ask for non-Bioware examples where we have the preachy SJW agenda being part of the game.  I really can't think of any.

[Meshugger]

Again, I'd ask for non-Bioware examples where we have the preachy SJW agenda being part of the game.  I really can't think of any.

 

That's because they generally do not create games. They ban or at best criticize them. Just look at what they tried with HuniePop, Hatred and they are trying with GTA5.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Meshugger

[Hurlshort]

 

Again, I'd ask for non-Bioware examples where we have the preachy SJW agenda being part of the game.  I really can't think of any.

 

That's because they generally do not create games. They ban or at best criticize them. Just look at what they tried with HuniePop, Hatred and they are trying with GTA5.

 

 

Have these games actually been banned or changed to meet the complaints of the SJW critics?

 

 

 

As for SJW influence - it did ruin quite a few games with pointless pandering. It is possible the games would have sucked without it, but I guess we'll never know.

 

This is what I was originally asking for clarification on.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Hurlshot

[Meshugger]

 

 

Again, I'd ask for non-Bioware examples where we have the preachy SJW agenda being part of the game.  I really can't think of any.

 

That's because they generally do not create games. They ban or at best criticize them. Just look at what they tried with HuniePop, Hatred and they are trying with GTA5.

 

 

Have these games actually been banned or changed to meet the complaints of the SJW critics?

 

 

Hatred was removed from Steam Greenlight after SJW complaints, but promptly put back by Gabe himself.

 

But ask yourself this: What games would gamers want to be banned? 

Edited April 21, 2015 by Meshugger

[Volourn]

"Bioware is pushing a socially progressive but that seems to come from the writers and developers rather than pandering to outside influence."

\

L0L You think that works in a vaccum? Trust me, they  are pandering. That's the point. Even then, BIO STILL gets attacked by SJWs. Just like Obsidian. No matter how much you pander to them it'll NEVER be enough.

\

\As for games being 'ruinno if I['d go that far but I do know games have been HURT or made WORSE by nazi sjws - PE being one of them. DA3 being the other. The moment you begin to pander to such a piece of crap group your game is auto worse than what it would be without their brainwashing influence.

 

 

Also, anyone claiming those 'gamers are dead' articles werent' attacking gamers are friggin' delusional crackpots.  If you claim gamers are dead you are attacking gamers. PERIOD.

 

 

 

[aluminiumtrioxid]

Also, anyone claiming those 'gamers are dead' articles werent' attacking gamers are friggin' delusional crackpots.  If you claim gamers are dead you are attacking gamers. PERIOD.

 

[pedant] Well, technically, none of them claimed that gamers are "dead". "Over", yes (Alexander), the gamer identity as dead, also yes, but gamers themselves? Nope. [/pedant]

[Volourn]

Nope. They did. Face the facts.  And, they were DEAD wrong.

 

\Because, I get tos till play games like PE that allows me to abuse women all I want since we know that why white male gamers enjoy playing games for - to abuse, belittle, and enslave women.

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

 

Serious question: how good you feel your grasp of statistics is? Because I think you might be fundamentally incapable of understanding why this video is such a huge problem. I mean, it was my whole point  that Sargon didn't "use their own material against them"; he took some statistics completely out of context and proceeded to claim that the people who are not taking them out of context are lying by omission for doing so. Which is disgustingly spineless. Aren't gamergaters supposed to be crusading against exactly this sort of "tainting [institution]* with an agenda"? Or are you seriously believing anti-feminism isn't an agenda?

 

*in this case, science

 

So? It's a qualitative study as it often is in social studies, then the amount is not important.

 

 

 

What the hell is that even supposed to mean? The amount of what?

 

Amount of people interviewed. 

 

 

Okay, whatever, call it a qualitative study (my experience with those is solely limited to individual case studies). But literally the first thing I was taught about qualitative studies that they're descriptive, not predictive. Treating one as if it did have any sort of predictive power is even more of a bumble than scope insensitivity!

 

And let's not forget the ethical side of this whole thing, because we're still talking ethics. The main thrust of Sargon's video was "the feminists are lying and intentionally burying the study because it doesn't fit the agenda". Faulty understanding of statistics and/or research methodology I'm okay with, throwing ****-flinging hissy fits based on that faulty understanding, not so much.

 

 

Uh,

 

The conclusion in the first paper, "He could be a bunny rabbit for all i care", states that gamers do not identify with the characters that they are playing. Then suddenly in the second paper, "Do you identify as a gamer? Gender, race, sexuality, and gamer identity", the conclusion from the first paper is not included or referenced, but now the games have to change because market plurality is bad because reasons not mentioned. Sargon clearly states that he assumes that this is due to ideology not matching the data they are researching. An assumption that i share. 

 

Ethics.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Meshugger