aluminiumtrioxid Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Okay, whatever, call it a qualitative study (my experience with those is solely limited to individual case studies). But literally the first thing I was taught about qualitative studies that they're descriptive, not predictive. Treating one as if it did have any sort of predictive power is even more of a bumble than scope insensitivity! And let's not forget the ethical side of this whole thing, because we're still talking ethics. The main thrust of Sargon's video was "the feminists are lying and intentionally burying the study because it doesn't fit the agenda". Faulty understanding of statistics and/or research methodology I'm okay with, throwing ****-flinging hissy fits based on that faulty understanding, not so much. The conclusion in the first paper, "He could be a bunny rabbit for all i care", states that gamers do not identify with the characters that they are playing. I feel compelled to point out that using a sample of people who are already gamers is probably not the greatest method of finding out whether the lack of diversity is alienating to people or not, exactly because the sample selection cannot contain people who feel that way. Also, as I mentioned it many, many times, the sample size used provides us with an extremely low confidence in these findings. Which is actually a perfectly valid reason in itself to not reference the study. Occam's Razor, anyone? "Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenshrike Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Also, anyone claiming those 'gamers are dead' articles werent' attacking gamers are friggin' delusional crackpots. If you claim gamers are dead you are attacking gamers. PERIOD. [pedant] Well, technically, none of them claimed that gamers are "dead". "Over", yes (Alexander), the gamer identity as dead, also yes, but gamers themselves? Nope. [/pedant] Thank you for confirming that the 12 article media blitz was an attempt to force identity politics into gaming. "You know, there's more to being an evil despot than getting cake whenever you want it" "If that's what you think, you're DOING IT WRONG." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aluminiumtrioxid Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 (edited) Also, anyone claiming those 'gamers are dead' articles werent' attacking gamers are friggin' delusional crackpots. If you claim gamers are dead you are attacking gamers. PERIOD. [pedant] Well, technically, none of them claimed that gamers are "dead". "Over", yes (Alexander), the gamer identity as dead, also yes, but gamers themselves? Nope. [/pedant] Nope. They did. Face the facts. And, they were DEAD wrong. Gamers' don't have to be your audience. 'Gamers' are over. Leigh Alexander, Gamasutra (Aug 28, 10:00am) Instances of the term "gamers are dead": 0. We Might Be Witnessing The 'Death of An Identity' Luke Plunkett, Kotaku (Aug 28, 8:00pm) Instances of the term "gamers are dead": 0. A Guide to Ending "Gamers" Devin Wilson, Gamasutra (Aug 28, 7:57 pm) Instances of the term "gamers are dead": 0. The death of the “gamers” and the women who “killed” them Casey Johnson, arstechnica (Aug 28, 5:00pm) Instances of the term "gamers are dead": half, I guess? In the title? If you squint? It's Dangerous to Go Alone: Why Are Gamers So Angry? Arthur Chu, The Daily Beast (Aug 28) Instances of the term "gamers are dead": 0. Gaming Is Leaving “Gamers” Behind Joseph Bernstein, Buzzfeed (Aug 28, 8:29 pm) Instances of the term "gamers are dead": 0. An awful week to care about video games Chris Plante, Polygon (Aug 28, 1:21pm) Instances of the term "gamers are dead": 0. The End of Gamers Dan Golding, Tumblr (Aug 28) Instances of the term "gamers are dead": 0. Sexism, Misogyny, and online attacks: It's a horrible time to consider yourself a gamer Patrick O'Rourke, Financial Post (Aug 28, 9:33pm) Instances of the term "gamers are dead": 0. Misogynistic trolls drive feminist video game critic from her home Callie Beusman, Jezebel (Aug 28, 4:05pm) Instances of the term "gamers are dead": 0. A disheartening account of the harassment going on in gaming right now (and how Adam Baldwin is involved) Victoria McNally, The Mary Sue (Aug 28, 1:30pm) Instances of the term "gamers are dead": 0. Feminist video bloggers driven from home by death threats Jack Smith IV, BetaBeat (Aug 28, 10:50am) Instances of the term "gamers are dead": 0. Anita Sarkeesian threatened with rape and murder for daring to keep critiquing video games Anna Minard, The Stranger (Aug 28, 6:00am) Instances of the term "gamers are dead": 0. Fanboys, white knights, and the hairball of online misogyny Tauriq Moosa, The Daily Beast (Aug 28) Instances of the term "gamers are dead": 0. Total instances of the term "gamers are dead": 0,5. But even if we do count it, "journalists, plural, were calling gamers dead" is still a false statement. Total effort required to find out the truth: clicking on a link and hitting ctrl+f 14 times in a sequence. Estimated amount of time necessary to do so: about 70 seconds. You should be ashamed. Edited April 21, 2015 by aluminiumtrioxid 2 "Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aluminiumtrioxid Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Also, anyone claiming those 'gamers are dead' articles werent' attacking gamers are friggin' delusional crackpots. If you claim gamers are dead you are attacking gamers. PERIOD. [pedant] Well, technically, none of them claimed that gamers are "dead". "Over", yes (Alexander), the gamer identity as dead, also yes, but gamers themselves? Nope. [/pedant] Thank you for confirming that the 12 article media blitz was an attempt to force identity politics into gaming. Oh God, the stupid... it burns! IT BUUURRRRNNNSSS UUUUSSSS! "Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 So are we looking for the exact phrase or the sentiment? Alexander is largely useless though, laughing at nerds. Never mind that nerds made the tech rather than liberal arts folk or something. Was rather odd how suddenly the games industry needed to ignore dedicated ones in favor of people that should stick to books by the sound of things. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aluminiumtrioxid Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 (edited) So are we looking for the exact phrase or the sentiment? I thought the [pedant] tag made it kind of obvious I was being tongue-in-cheek. Although the presence of the sentiment is debatable as well. Edited April 21, 2015 by aluminiumtrioxid "Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 That was not in your giant listing post. But I suppose it doesn't matter in any case. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aluminiumtrioxid Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 That was not in your giant listing post. But I suppose it doesn't matter in any case. [pedant] Technically, it was there, in the quote box. [/pedant] "Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonek Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Oh come now anybody whom reads the articles can tell that they are attacks against the millions of diverse consumers whom play games recreationally, the journalists conspired on their little hugbox to try and tell off anybody whom dared criticise them, and then all published their articles in a concerted attack. This backpedalling is just pathetic and cowardly as one just has to read them, they declared that gamers are dead and tried to demonise them, now their careers are dead or soon will be, it all evens out in the end. The fact that these unethical, corrupt and lets face it morally devoid individuals think that they can preach at anyone just shows how blinkered, self righteous and indoctrinated they have become in their ideology of hatred for humanity. Still I would not censor them, let them continue puring out their toxic bile, by their own tongue let them be damned. I've got to say however that reading those articles again was highly amusing, i'd forgotten how harmful to gaming and purely idiotic these "journalists" ideas are. 1 Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin. Tea for the teapot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aluminiumtrioxid Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 (edited) one just has to read them, they declared that gamers are dead ...You claim to just have read them. Did you disappear into some weird sort of alternate reality where there are different words on the screen than for the rest of the universe? I mean, they said a lot of mean things, yes, but to stick to the single one claim they blatantly and provably did not make... a certain definition of insanity comes to mind. Edited April 21, 2015 by aluminiumtrioxid "Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakai Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Oh come now anybody whom reads the articles can tell that they are attacks against the millions of diverse consumers whom play games recreationally, the journalists conspired on their little hugbox to try and tell off anybody whom dared criticise them, and then all published their articles in a concerted attack. Can you sound a bit less dramatic? People having opinions aren't a nazi apocalypse just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonek Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 (edited) We're witnessing the death of an identity, that identity is a gamer they state, thus gamers are dead. It's really quite simple for anybody whom reads English. The twelve articles are attacks on anyone who happens to play games recreationally, they should own up to it, not be cowardly and try and backpedal and weasel their way out of it. @Sakai: Dramatic, I thought I was using quite dry and stolid prose, but I suppose I could try and be more pedestrian. I'll give it a shot. Edited April 21, 2015 by Nonek 1 Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin. Tea for the teapot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aluminiumtrioxid Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 (edited) We're witnessing the death of an identity, that identity is a gamer they state, thus gamers are dead. It's really quite simple for anybody whom reads English. Also from the article of the very same title: Note they're not talking about everyone who plays games, or who self-identifies as a "gamer", as being the worst. It's even bolded for the convenience of the reader. It's really quite simple for anybody who actually read more than two paragraphs (Well, more than seven, if we want to be pedantic. But they're really short paragraphs.) Edited April 21, 2015 by aluminiumtrioxid "Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonek Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Then they shouldn't have used the term gamer, it has only one meaning, i'm sorry but they made an attack against anyone whom plays games recreationally and tried to tell off and preach at people for their hobby. This is not their place or their right, they are corrupt, spoiled and unethical followers of a hate movement, they have no right to judge or deride anybody, gamer or not. I know that they think they are better and spit on humanity in general, and feel it is their right to judge, but that is just not so. They are the identity that is dying thanks to their own corruption and being unfit for purpose, they shouldn't attack the audience whom gave them jobs just because they are becoming irrelevant. 1 Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin. Tea for the teapot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aluminiumtrioxid Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Then they shouldn't have used the term gamer, it has only one meaning, i'm sorry but they made an attack against anyone whom plays games recreationally and tried to tell off and preach at people for their hobby. Even though they specified they mean a very specific subset of gamers? A subset with which people outside of gaming are very prone to identifying the whole of gamers? Alexander's piece was published in a very specific context, after all. "Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fighter Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Are we really debating whether the actual phrase "gamers are dead" was used? Anyway. She made it easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aluminiumtrioxid Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Are we really debating whether the actual phrase "gamers are dead" was used? Anyway. She made it easy. Since the entire point of her article was that people outside of gaming are prone to attaching unpleasant associations to these words, it's not very surprising. Conversely, neither is it especially incriminating. "Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonek Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 (edited) Yes even though, they had no right to preach at anyone, or any group. That is not their purpose and their coordinated attack on all gamers, calling them dead, was a cowardly and idiotic thing that further cheapened the worth of game journalism. They are now utterly discredited, no amount of backpedalling or trying to weasel out of it will excuse their behaviour. Edit: Open and healthy words, a little late to start acting innocent, hah most amusing. Ah well her toxicity and hatred are irrelevant now. Edited April 21, 2015 by Nonek 1 Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin. Tea for the teapot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakai Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Tthey have no right to judge Says who? Also it seems you have no problem with judging, so why it's ok for you but not for them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakai Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 they had no right to preach at anyone Lol, they have the right to preach anything to anyone. And i do mean they have the right. By law they do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fighter Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Since the entire point of her article was that people outside of gaming are prone to attaching unpleasant associations to these words, it's not very surprising. Conversely, neither is it especially incriminating. She agrees with those people. Hence the sweeping attack on the gaming community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonek Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 (edited) @ Sakai: I have the right to judge the gaming press because I am a consumer and it is their purpose to serve and inform me, when they fail at that it is my right as a consumer to judge them. They have a right to preach at someone privately, even though it is hypocrtitical when they are corrupt, unethical and part of a hate movement, they do not have a right to use the media they are a part of to demonise an innocent majority, that is a flagrant misuse of their powers. Thus we have Gamergate, a consumer revolt and response to unethical practises and their hate mongering. Edit: Anyway off to the sweet caress of dreams and delusions I flitter, my time upon this mortal coil is short and alas my tongue is weary and eyes heavy, good night and god bless. Now that was dramatic! Edited April 21, 2015 by Nonek 1 Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin. Tea for the teapot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakai Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Again, they have every right to do whatever the hell they want. What you're saying are guidelines. Not everyone follows them, and not everyone agrees with them. What we don't have the right for is to dictate who has the right to what. Also, just because you disagree with what they wrote, doesn't mean they are "corrupt, unethical and part of a hate movement". It takes a little more than a few articles to say something like that about someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 "Even though they specified they mean a very specific subset of gamers? A subset with which people outside of gaming are very prone to identifying the whole of gamers?" They said games. Gamers are gamers are gamers. They claimed gamers were over and dead. They aren't. "Also, just because you disagree with what they wrote, doesn't mean they are "corrupt, unethical and part of a hate movement" Agreed. The fact they are corrupt, unethical, and part of a hate movement means they are corrupt, unethical, and part of a hate movement. Their actiosn have proven this quite clearly. Just check all the FEMALE game developers they have attacked, harassed, bullied, and hated. :) DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 I have no problem heaping scorn on gaming journalists, as I've said a few times before. But I'm also pretty secure in my identity as a gamer, and don't find any offense at these rather silly articles. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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