Hard mode is too easy.

[Matt516]

I'd be happy with a difficulty level in between PotD and Hard. I like that they didn't just increase enemy stats to go from the lower levels from Hard, but instead made the encounters more interesting (more enemies, different enemies, etc). I'd like to see a level beyond Hard that does the same thing again with the encounters, without resorting to just buffing enemy stats. Buffing enemy stats just makes the game a bitch to balance because you have to account for 2 sets of Deflection/DR numbers instead of one. No thanks. Just add more or different enemies instead (ideally in such a way that AoE doesn't become overwhelmingly better, of course).

 

Not an easy problem to solve. But I'd concur that one more level in between PotD and Hard would be nice. I've played up to Caed Nua (so still early) on Hard and only had to reload once or twice (in the temple). Raedric's Keep was thrilling, but ultimately not all that difficult - I fought and beat both bosses without having to reload. Maybe I'm just that good. Or maybe the game could be a mite bit harder.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Matt516

[ComplyOrDie]

In reply to atheo...

 

I assume you haven't read the earlier discussions then. My issue was reaching the last boss on path at level 9 with very few memorable fights, over experience just compounds the difficulty problems, there are several others which have been well documented. People are suggesting ways to overcome the game getting too easy too quickly and increase the number of tactically fun fights (there are already some really good ones when done at the correct level), and experience tweaking is one of those suggestions, but a random mod to reduce experience is a decent idea but would be a pretty crude way to do it and theres more to look at in my opinion.

 

Path was sold as a nod to people who like things brutal, so I hardly think expectations for it to actually BE brutal are ' silly'. Anyway no point derailing the topic further.

Edited April 6, 2015 by ComplyOrDie

[Cronstintein]

I totally agree with matt ^

 

While I would prefer an increase in encounter difficulty, that's going to take a lot of work/time unfortunately.  I also beat Raedric's first time on hard without any problems.  I've since modded into POTD mode, I really think locking that option is a bad idea.

 

Specifically the human encounters could really use a boost in difficulty.  I'm not sure if it's stats or AI or both but I'm able to steamroll human opponents (like the dragon-egg fight) where in BG2 those were some of the most fun and difficult encounters.  Enemy wizards should be using slicken instead of web. Use blind, fireballs, etc.. Their tanks should have 100+ in deflection so you need to use debuffs/spells to bring them down, etc..  Rogues should use that invisibility talent and backstab your mages.  They don't do any of these things and it makes the fights trivial.

[ComplyOrDie]

I totally agree with matt ^

 

While I would prefer an increase in encounter difficulty, that's going to take a lot of work/time unfortunately. I also beat Raedric's first time on hard without any problems. I've since modded into POTD mode, I really think locking that option is a bad idea.

 

Specifically the human encounters could really use a boost in difficulty. I'm not sure if it's stats or AI or both but I'm able to steamroll human opponents (like the dragon-egg fight) where in BG2 those were some of the most fun and difficult encounters. Enemy wizards should be using slicken instead of web. Use blind, fireballs, etc.. Their tanks should have 100+ in deflection so you need to use debuffs/spells to bring them down, etc.. Rogues should use that invisibility talent and backstab your mages. They don't do any of these things and it makes the fights trivial.

I've really noticed this too. Perhaps the human fights are the same size whichever difficulty you are on, so in these fights all you get is the same fight as easy but with 50% more stats and a poor ai, which doesn't make much difference. I've also noticed human opponents tend to have pretty trash accuracies probably mirroring what a pc character of that level would have but ultimately making them ineffective. Hope they do look at it in more detail than a quick fix but I'm not too optimistic, a mod to rework encounters is probably more realistic but would be interesting to see if it's on obsidian's radar. Edited April 6, 2015 by ComplyOrDie

[Atheosis]

In reply to atheo...

 

I assume you haven't read the earlier discussions then. My issue was reaching the last boss on path at level 9 with very few memorable fights, over experience just compounds the difficulty problems, there are several others which have been well documented. People are suggesting ways to overcome the game getting too easy too quickly and increase the number of tactically fun fights (there are already some really good ones when done at the correct level), and experience tweaking is one of those suggestions, but a random mod to reduce experience is a decent idea but would be a pretty crude way to do it and theres more to look at in my opinion.

 

Path was sold as a nod to people who like things brutal, so I hardly think expectations for it to actually BE brutal are ' silly'. Anyway no point derailing the topic further.

 

There is no problem, well documented or otherwise.  Some people want the game to be harder, or want leveling slowed to a glacial pace, while most people are happy with the current difficulty options and leveling rate.  The percentage of people who can play hard or PotD and feel it is not challenging at all is so tiny it's not even worth discussing in terms of Obsidian changing things.  Certainly some balance issues need to be dealt with (some enemies do not fulfill their level in terms of challenge), but for some of you it just boils down to having to wait for mods to make the game even harder than it currently is or xp much slower.  Changing the difficulty/xp rate across the board when most people are happy with it just so that a tiny percentage who find it easy can feel challenged?  I certainly hope Obsidian isn't considering such a notion.

[sparklecat]

 

... while most people are happy with the current difficulty options and leveling rate. 

 

Do you have any support for this statement?  You've polled most of the players, or at least a random sample we can consider representative, to get their views?

[Atheosis]

 

 

... while most people are happy with the current difficulty options and leveling rate. 

 

Do you have any support for this statement?  You've polled most of the players, or at least a random sample we can consider representative, to get their views?

 

 

Considering the reviews it's getting, professional and amateur, and the lack of complaints about the game being too easy in said reviews (many claiming it to be quite challenging in fact), it's not hard to figure out that it's just a tiny minority of people finding the harder difficulties too easy.  Those people loving the heart of the game but being dissatisfied with the challenge level naturally find their way here.  Those who have no issues with the difficulty of the game don't generally come to the forums to talk about it.  I mean if you go off this forum you would think this game is actually bad, because that's what predominates on game forums: complaints from the dissatisfied.

[Cronstintein]

I sincerely doubt any reviewers were playing on PotD, likely not even hard.  They are trying to burn through the game as fast as possible since they have a very limited amount of time before release.  Expecting them to want the same difficulty as an enthusiast crowd is unrealistic. 

[Atheosis]

I sincerely doubt any reviewers were playing on PotD, likely not even hard.  They are trying to burn through the game as fast as possible since they have a very limited amount of time before release.  Expecting them to want the same difficulty as an enthusiast crowd is unrealistic. 

 

What's also unrealistic is thinking the hardcore try-hards on here saying the game is too easy, even on the higher difficulties, represent anything other than a small minority.  The bottom line is that if PotD is not hard enough for people they are probably just going to have to wait for a mod that makes the game even harder. 

Edited April 6, 2015 by Atheosis

[Mungri]

Look, on Potd the whole game should be as hard as the lighthouse.

 

The lighthouse shouldn't be the only thought provoking difficult encounter in the whole game.

 

Ok there's a couple of others too, but you get my point.

[Cronstintein]

 

What's also unrealistic is thinking the hardcore try-hards on here saying the game is too easy, even on the higher difficulties, represent anything other than a small minority.  The bottom line is that if PotD is not hard enough for people they are probably just going to have to wait for a mod that makes the game even harder. 

 

 

No one's trying to force a change on you that you don't want.  But those of us who enjoy retrying hard fights are feeling under-served with the current arrangement.  Talking about it on the boards is our right.  I'm not really expecting Obsidian to do anything about it, but our discussions about how exactly to ramp difficulty could be useful to any modders in our midst.

 

If you don't like it, there are plenty of other threads where you can exclaim about how perfect you think everything is.

 

Honestly, I doubt it's that small a minority.  Anyone doing a large amount of side content is going to completely marginalize the difficulty in most of the fights.  I literally used one character to clear out several areas without doing any weird cheese stuff (other than using a well-built rogue) .  Is that how it's meant to be played?  One character + 5 cheerleaders?  Anyway, I'm getting tangential here so /rant.

[durbal]

I don't even see the purpose people have in saying that they want the game to stay as is.  What do you lose if the game is made more challenging?  You can just select different difficulty options.  People that think the game is too easy can't change anything without a full mod.

 

Anyway, the real problem here is the XP gain.  When developing a character in a game, it doesn't make sense to force players have to skip large parts of the game that develop their character just so that their character isn't fully developed well before the game is finished (and so other parts aren't trivial and it's just a rush to the end) -- and that's exactly what's happening here.

Edited April 6, 2015 by durbal

[Atheosis]

 

 

What's also unrealistic is thinking the hardcore try-hards on here saying the game is too easy, even on the higher difficulties, represent anything other than a small minority.  The bottom line is that if PotD is not hard enough for people they are probably just going to have to wait for a mod that makes the game even harder. 

 

 

No one's trying to force a change on you that you don't want.  But those of us who enjoy retrying hard fights are feeling under-served with the current arrangement.  Talking about it on the boards is our right.  I'm not really expecting Obsidian to do anything about it, but our discussions about how exactly to ramp difficulty could be useful to any modders in our midst.

 

If you don't like it, there are plenty of other threads where you can exclaim about how perfect you think everything is.

 

Honestly, I doubt it's that small a minority.  Anyone doing a large amount of side content is going to completely marginalize the difficulty in most of the fights.  I literally used one character to clear out several areas without doing any weird cheese stuff (other than using a well-built rogue) .  Is that how it's meant to be played?  One character + 5 cheerleaders?  Anyway, I'm getting tangential here so /rant.

 

 

No, many here are hoping that Obsidian makes sweeping changes to the game to suit their tastes.  I'm speaking up on the off chance Obsidian is actually listening to these complaints, because the echo chamber in this thread does not represent the playerbase as whole.  There are a few optional things that I think would be a good idea if they want to implement them, like a reduced xp option for instance, but fundamentally changing the game to suit those in this thread will result in many more unhappy players than we have now.  I hope someone makes a mod for you guys, but that's the extent of my support.

 

Also it most certainly is a small minority.  This happens on every gaming forum.  The malcontents post more because they aren't playing the game as much, and reaffirm their view as a majority view when in fact it is marginal.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Atheosis

[Atheosis]

I don't even see the purpose people have in saying that they want the game to stay as is.  What do you lose if the game is made more challenging?  You can just select different difficulty options.  People that think the game is too easy can't change anything without a full mod.

 

Anyway, the real problem here is the XP gain.  When developing a character in a game, it doesn't make sense to force players have to skip large parts of the game that develop their character just so that their character isn't fully developed well before the game is finished (and so other parts aren't trivial and it's just a rush to the end) -- and that's exactly what's happening here.

 

You don't see it because you aren't trying to see it.  If someone thinks the various difficulties are perfect as they are why should they be forced to change the difficulty they are playing at just to satisfy you?  And if they are playing PotD they just have to what?  Restart?  The point is that many people love the game as it currently is.

[sparklecat]

 

 

 

... while most people are happy with the current difficulty options and leveling rate. 

 

Do you have any support for this statement?  You've polled most of the players, or at least a random sample we can consider representative, to get their views?

 

 

Considering the reviews it's getting, professional and amateur, and the lack of complaints about the game being too easy in said reviews (many claiming it to be quite challenging in fact), it's not hard to figure out that it's just a tiny minority of people finding the harder difficulties too easy.  Those people loving the heart of the game but being dissatisfied with the challenge level naturally find their way here.  Those who have no issues with the difficulty of the game don't generally come to the forums to talk about it.  I mean if you go off this forum you would think this game is actually bad, because that's what predominates on game forums: complaints from the dissatisfied.

 

So in other words, no.  You have your personal speculation, not actual evidence.

[durbal]

 

I don't even see the purpose people have in saying that they want the game to stay as is.  What do you lose if the game is made more challenging?  You can just select different difficulty options.  People that think the game is too easy can't change anything without a full mod.

 

Anyway, the real problem here is the XP gain.  When developing a character in a game, it doesn't make sense to force players have to skip large parts of the game that develop their character just so that their character isn't fully developed well before the game is finished (and so other parts aren't trivial and it's just a rush to the end) -- and that's exactly what's happening here.

 

You don't see it because you aren't trying to see it.  If someone thinks the various difficulties are perfect as they are why should they be forced to change the difficulty they are playing at just to satisfy you?  And if they are playing PotD they just have to what?  Restart?  The point is that many people love the game as it currently is.

 

So a decent number of players wants the game to be more challenging (and I'm sure more will as well as players finish the game for the first time) because you refuse to move a difficulty slider?  When a larger number of players than those claiming the game is too easy find that it's too difficult even on easy mode, then maybe you'll have some sort of point.  I don't see that happening, though.

 

And I still don't see what your purpose is.

[demeisen]

Maybe it needs a checkbox when you make a new game: "Imma play without doing side quests", or "Imma play the side quests".  If you pick the first option, it gives exp as it does now for the main plot.  If you pick the second option, it assumes something like 75% completion of side quests, and adjusts overall exp gain downward so you end up in about the same place as if you picked the first option and didn't do the side quests.

 

I love the game - best RPG in a decade if you ask me.  But I feel it would be even better with a sense of risk.  I want to feel that dangerous places are actually dangerous, instead of "it's cool to blow through everything with no need for careful tactics".  I want to feel a sense of dread when entering ominous places.  Right now, there's no sense of dread, because 95% chance I'll just bulldoze everything without even needing spells.  But I realize there are people who prefer the other way around, who don't want hard fights or to micromanagement their party's abilities, etc, so they'd have the other option to pick from.  Then everybody's happy.

 

Well, probably not - everybody's never happy

[Atheosis]

 

 

 

 

... while most people are happy with the current difficulty options and leveling rate. 

 

Do you have any support for this statement?  You've polled most of the players, or at least a random sample we can consider representative, to get their views?

 

 

Considering the reviews it's getting, professional and amateur, and the lack of complaints about the game being too easy in said reviews (many claiming it to be quite challenging in fact), it's not hard to figure out that it's just a tiny minority of people finding the harder difficulties too easy.  Those people loving the heart of the game but being dissatisfied with the challenge level naturally find their way here.  Those who have no issues with the difficulty of the game don't generally come to the forums to talk about it.  I mean if you go off this forum you would think this game is actually bad, because that's what predominates on game forums: complaints from the dissatisfied.

 

So in other words, no.  You have your personal speculation, not actual evidence.

 

 

It's called circumstantial evidence.  You have what evidence that it is a significant portion of the playerbase?  A handful of forum posters?

[Atheosis]

Maybe it needs a checkbox when you make a new game: "Imma play without doing side quests", or "Imma play the side quests".  If you pick the first option, it gives exp as it does now for the main plot.  If you pick the second option, it assumes something like 75% completion of side quests, and adjusts overall exp gain downward so you end up in about the same place as if you picked the first option and didn't do the side quests.

 

I love the game - best RPG in a decade if you ask me.  But I feel it would be even better with a sense of risk.  I want to feel that dangerous places are actually dangerous, instead of "it's cool to blow through everything with no need for careful tactics".  I want to feel a sense of dread when entering ominous places.  Right now, there's no sense of dread, because 95% chance I'll just bulldoze everything without even needing spells.  But I realize there are people who prefer the other way around, who don't want hard fights or to micromanagement their party's abilities, etc, so they'd have the other option to pick from.  Then everybody's happy.

 

Well, probably not - everybody's never happy

 

The checkbox could simply be reduced or no side quest xp.

[sparklecat]

I'm not saying it's a significant portion of the playerbase.  Most of the playerbase is probably not playing on Hard+ and thus would be unaffected by any changes if they're tied to difficulty.

[Atheosis]

I'm not saying it's a significant portion of the playerbase.  Most of the playerbase is probably not playing on Hard+ and thus would be unaffected by any changes if they're tied to difficulty.

 

So in other words you are agreeing with me that it is a small minority? 

[sparklecat]

 

I'm not saying it's a significant portion of the playerbase.  Most of the playerbase is probably not playing on Hard+ and thus would be unaffected by any changes if they're tied to difficulty.

 

So in other words you are agreeing with me that it is a small minority? 

 

Nope.  I'm not drawing conclusions either way.

[Justinian]

The evidence being brought forth in this thread has NOTHING to do with the majority or minority. It's a FACT that the game gets easier and easier as you progress to the point of triviality regardless of actual difficulty selected. It's not about whether normal is normal or hard is hard. Reverse difficulty is just plain wrong in games, especially when it results in players getting through the later parts by just autoattacking enemies without being damaged.

 

I and many others quite like the difficulty of hard/POTD in the first act of the game, it's just later on when it all falls apart.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Justinian

[elf1]

In reply to atheo...

 

I assume you haven't read the earlier discussions then. My issue was reaching the last boss on path at level 9 with very few memorable fights, over experience just compounds the difficulty problems, there are several others which have been well documented. People are suggesting ways to overcome the game getting too easy too quickly and increase the number of tactically fun fights (there are already some really good ones when done at the correct level), and experience tweaking is one of those suggestions, but a random mod to reduce experience is a decent idea but would be a pretty crude way to do it and theres more to look at in my opinion.

 

Path was sold as a nod to people who like things brutal, so I hardly think expectations for it to actually BE brutal are ' silly'. Anyway no point derailing the topic further.

whats a good place to stop leveling? im currently level 5... do u think the end boss would be doable?

[Cronstintein]

I dunno about the end boss, but definitely throw the breaks on until you start to feel seriously challenged.  If I were to do it again I'd stay lv5/6 throughout that first major city.  Any higher is overkill.

 

 

One player said he would do the side quests but just not level up the characters, actually a pretty good idea if you have the self-discipline for it.