Hard mode is too easy.

[Hatred]

Yeah I truly think the side quest XP is one of the bigger issues. At the risk of opening a can of worms I encourage everyone to tweet J.E.S. and OE and Pillars about the XP issue. Not to say that without the XP issue there wouldn't still be problems.

 Not sure if anyone here has played Endless Legend? The attack resolution system in that was not wildly different from this one. There were limits to just how invulnerable tanky units could be though. Also a limit to just how much better accuracy could get. Maybe if they had a system a bit more like that and a bit less like this one where each extra point in a stat is so much better than the point before. I haven't even tried a custom tank but considering that you could definitey improve Eder(or your main tank) by at least 15 points of deflection ... that is a worry.

 I have considered trying a playthrough and just banking all of my XP once I feel its getting out of control. It is a bit hard to know what level to restrict yourself too though. Also I heard the main was built to be defeated by level 8. Not so sure you are supposed to be able to do all of the side content at level 8 though. /throws hands up in air and shakes head.

[Hatred]

 

Removing the bestiary and lockpicking/trap disarming exp would be a good first step.

 

Hah! Getting the bestiary XP as a half-measure toward combat XP was the fanbase's big victory during the backer beta. Now we're complaining it's too much.

 

 I wasn't a backer. If I was I would have been in these forums screaming my head off about those things. As it was just reading them made me ... well you can see my user name.

 The fan bases biggest failure was not wanting the game to be fun. I hate filthy casuals who 'want to level up' or 'I want xp because ...x,y,z". Who the hell cares if picking a lock gives you xp. What matters is if the game is balanced and fun and interesting. Since lockpicking XP makes it less balanced and less fun and less interesting anyone with a lick of common sense should want it gone. Even those who dont care about balance or fun, why the hell do they want this bonus xp ? Is it really so fkn important?  Why ? 

[Hatred]

I'm playing on normal difficulty with my priest, eder, durance and aloth.  Some of the fights have been very difficult, I'm playing on trial of iron.

 

I can't imagine doing hard difficulty, you guys get my respect.

 The game gets a lot easier as you go on. Unless you avoid a lot of content it gets to the point where you only need auto attack. Its not a skill thing.

[View619]

All I really want is a sword coast stratagems version for Pillars.

 

Give me that evil, evil AI powered by Skynet. It's so fun.

 

SCS for POE would be incredible. That mod really makes BG shine.

[View619]

Yeah I truly think the side quest XP is one of the bigger issues. At the risk of opening a can of worms I encourage everyone to tweet J.E.S. and OE and Pillars about the XP issue. Not to say that without the XP issue there wouldn't still be problems.

 Not sure if anyone here has played Endless Legend? The attack resolution system in that was not wildly different from this one. There were limits to just how invulnerable tanky units could be though. Also a limit to just how much better accuracy could get. Maybe if they had a system a bit more like that and a bit less like this one where each extra point in a stat is so much better than the point before. I haven't even tried a custom tank but considering that you could definitey improve Eder(or your main tank) by at least 15 points of deflection ... that is a worry.

 I have considered trying a playthrough and just banking all of my XP once I feel its getting out of control. It is a bit hard to know what level to restrict yourself too though. Also I heard the main was built to be defeated by level 8. Not so sure you are supposed to be able to do all of the side content at level 8 though. /throws hands up in air and shakes head.

 

FWIW, Sawyer stated in an interview that the game was balanced around the assumption that you would stick to the main path with some side quests. It's by design that you'll be over-leveled for the main path if you do a lot of side content. I think the only way to get around this is with a mod that changes xp values or something.

[Hatred]

 

Yeah I truly think the side quest XP is one of the bigger issues. At the risk of opening a can of worms I encourage everyone to tweet J.E.S. and OE and Pillars about the XP issue. Not to say that without the XP issue there wouldn't still be problems.

 Not sure if anyone here has played Endless Legend? The attack resolution system in that was not wildly different from this one. There were limits to just how invulnerable tanky units could be though. Also a limit to just how much better accuracy could get. Maybe if they had a system a bit more like that and a bit less like this one where each extra point in a stat is so much better than the point before. I haven't even tried a custom tank but considering that you could definitey improve Eder(or your main tank) by at least 15 points of deflection ... that is a worry.

 I have considered trying a playthrough and just banking all of my XP once I feel its getting out of control. It is a bit hard to know what level to restrict yourself too though. Also I heard the main was built to be defeated by level 8. Not so sure you are supposed to be able to do all of the side content at level 8 though. /throws hands up in air and shakes head.

 

FWIW, Sawyer stated in an interview that the game was balanced around the assumption that you would stick to the main path with some side quests. It's by design that you'll be over-leveled for the main path if you do a lot of side content. I think the only way to get around this is with a mod that changes xp values or something.

 

 Yeah ok that is just nuts. Kind of turns a fairly long-ish game into a very short one. Also kind of encourages you to avoid a lot of the work that went into the game. Wouldn't it just make more sense to turn off side quest xp or reduce it by 90%. Turn down sidequest xp hugely, turn off lockpick/bestiaryand then everyone wins ? Everyone gets to play the game while exploring to their hearts content. To me this still says there is a stupidly big problem with the xp. Also I am pretty sure it was advertised you would have to do literally everything to hit the level cap. That certainly isn't true.

[sparklecat]

 

Removing the bestiary and lockpicking/trap disarming exp would be a good first step.

 

Hah! Getting the bestiary XP as a half-measure toward combat XP was the fanbase's big victory during the backer beta. Now we're complaining it's too much.

 

Hey, I was arguing against it then.

Edited April 6, 2015 by sparklecat

[View619]

I'm pretty sure Bestiary xp is here to stay, that was implemented as a compromise between the "no combat xp" and "I want combat xp" groups. As far as xp is concerned, it's pretty difficult to balance a game around the assumption that the player will do all side quests before completing the game; this just results in scenarios where players who don't want to do a lot of side content have a harder time completing the game, which is a poor design choice (complete all content or suffer).

 

If you really want to make the game more challenging, just do a minimalist run on POTD. The best the devs could do in terms of difficulty is tune it for the average player and provide options for the more hard-core players, which they have done. You had to do the same thing in the BG series if you weren't using SCS, iirc.

 

As far as turning off side quest xp by default, that just results in players avoiding those quests because they receive no rewards.

[sparklecat]

As opposed to avoiding those quests because otherwise there's no challenge to the game?

 

I really do not care if people whose chosen playstyle is to skip half the game find it hard to complete as a result.  It should be that way.

[danielkx]

They should increase the difficulty of the critical path a little, give less xp for side quests and remove trap/new map xp.

[Telmorial]

 

Yeah I truly think the side quest XP is one of the bigger issues. At the risk of opening a can of worms I encourage everyone to tweet J.E.S. and OE and Pillars about the XP issue. Not to say that without the XP issue there wouldn't still be problems.

 Not sure if anyone here has played Endless Legend? The attack resolution system in that was not wildly different from this one. There were limits to just how invulnerable tanky units could be though. Also a limit to just how much better accuracy could get. Maybe if they had a system a bit more like that and a bit less like this one where each extra point in a stat is so much better than the point before. I haven't even tried a custom tank but considering that you could definitey improve Eder(or your main tank) by at least 15 points of deflection ... that is a worry.

 I have considered trying a playthrough and just banking all of my XP once I feel its getting out of control. It is a bit hard to know what level to restrict yourself too though. Also I heard the main was built to be defeated by level 8. Not so sure you are supposed to be able to do all of the side content at level 8 though. /throws hands up in air and shakes head.

 

FWIW, Sawyer stated in an interview that the game was balanced around the assumption that you would stick to the main path with some side quests. It's by design that you'll be over-leveled for the main path if you do a lot of side content. I think the only way to get around this is with a mod that changes xp values or something.

 

 

If that's true then it was a terrible design decision! It should have been balanced around the player doing many of the side quests.

With that balance, if people who have skipped many of the side quests find the game too hard as they progress through the main story, they still have two options; Do more side quests to level up or simply reduce the difficulty setting.

But as it is now, people who like to do a lot of side quests (oh, the horror!), are finding the game too easy, even no hard difficulty! Awful design.

[danielkx]

I think most of us would agree that the game can be challenging at early levels but then once you get midway in leveling it becomes very easy.

 

Simple solution 1: Reduce how much xp is gained through side quests, disarming traps and discovering new locations.

 

Simple solution 2: Increase how much xp is needed to advance levels. Either uniform like it is now (extra 1k xp on top of what was needed from the prior level to advance to the next level) but make it so instead of 1k xp extra you need 3k. Or maybe keep it at the current progression level but once you reach level 6 instead of needing 1k on top of what was needed to level prior level, you need 4k extra.

[McPartyson]

Does playing with just a 3 or 4 man party on hard bring back a decent challenge at the mid-late game? Or does it not make much of a difference once character stats get to a certain point?

Edited April 6, 2015 by McPartyson

[Telmorial]

The solution isn't to decrease the XP. They have a max level of 12 in the game. That level shouldn't be considered 'over leveled' and too easy for the latter part of the game.
 I want to get all my characters to max level and still have many very challenging fights, all the way up until the last battle.

[Trauma_Hound]

Are you sure it's on Hard? There's another thread in which people are noticing that, even though they started a game on a harder difficulty setting, their game is actually set to Easy or Normal for some reason.

 

I don't know how prevalent that is, or how easy to notice it is, either. I just figured that, if that IS going on a lot, then it would be understandable to select "Hard" at the beginning of the game, and assume the game is set to that, even if the game for some reason reset itself to an easier difficulty setting without notifying you.

 

I noticed that the patch screwed this up for a game I started, I kid you not, I started a character did the first fight with the Wolves, there were two wolves ... Then I went to sleep woke up and patched the game, the guys at the camp weren't the same number as my first play through on hard ... I was like WTF is this? So I remade the character and put it on hard and voila, everything was good.

 

The Patch reverted the game back to an easier difficulty. That's the only explanation I can conjure.

[danielkx]

The solution isn't to decrease the XP. They have a max level of 12 in the game. That level shouldn't be considered 'over leveled' and too easy for the latter part of the game.

 I want to get all my characters to max level and still have many very challenging fights, all the way up until the last battle.

 

The problem is then if you do not do a bunch of the side quests you will be under level for the end game. Obsidian had to design the critical path for people that would not want to have to do all of the optional stuff. Now for those people the end game fight will definitely be tougher but will still be doable.

 

The main issue is that many of us want to do the side quests because they are enjoyable and we are playing the game to experience the content. Since you can do so many things before continuing the critical path and since you gain levels so easily, just by doing a decent amount of side quests you become severely over leveled halfway through the game.

 

The solution is to either decrease how much xp is given for certain quests or to increase how much xp is needed to advance levels so you do not get over leveled so easily.

[Telmorial]

 

The solution isn't to decrease the XP. They have a max level of 12 in the game. That level shouldn't be considered 'over leveled' and too easy for the latter part of the game.

 I want to get all my characters to max level and still have many very challenging fights, all the way up until the last battle.

 

The problem is then if you do not do a bunch of the side quests you will be under level for the end game. Obsidian had to design the critical path for people that would not want to have to do all of the optional stuff. Now for those people the end game fight will definitely be tougher but will still be doable.

 

The main issue is that many of us want to do the side quests because they are enjoyable and we are playing the game to experience the content. Since you can do so many things before continuing the critical path and since you gain levels so easily, just by doing a decent amount of side quests you become severely over leveled halfway through the game.

 

The solution is to either decrease how much xp is given for certain quests or to increase how much xp is needed to advance levels so you do not get over leveled so easily.

 

 

But like I said, if they were under leveled for the end game because of not doing enough side quests, they still have two options; Do more side quests or reduce the difficulty setting.

[Atheosis]

As opposed to avoiding those quests because otherwise there's no challenge to the game?

 

I really do not care if people whose chosen playstyle is to skip half the game find it hard to complete as a result.  It should be that way.

 

No, it shouldn't.  This game offers so many ways to increase the difficulty.  I just don't get what you people are complaining about.  Play the game on PotD.  If that's not hard enough, play it on Trials of Iron too.  If that's not hard enough replace maiming with outright death.  If that's not hard enough limit yourself to not using custom party members.  If that's not hard enough limit your party size to 3 or 4.  The list goes on and on.  And if none of it is hard enough, congratulations, you are just too good for this game.

[Hatred]

Does playing with just a 3 or 4 man party on hard bring back a decent challenge at the mid-late game? Or does it not make much of a difference once character stats get to a certain point?

 Makes no difference. I am using wizards in plate attacking with wands. They still do to much DPS.

edit :without any talents to increase their damage with wands or accuracy either. You can literally equip all hunting bows after a point and still win without casting (or using any active abilities consumables self enchanted items or ... I hope you get the idea)

Edited April 6, 2015 by Hatred

[Hatred]

 

As opposed to avoiding those quests because otherwise there's no challenge to the game?

 

I really do not care if people whose chosen playstyle is to skip half the game find it hard to complete as a result.  It should be that way.

 

No, it shouldn't.  This game offers so many ways to increase the difficulty.  I just don't get what you people are complaining about.  Play the game on PotD.  If that's not hard enough, play it on Trials of Iron too.  If that's not hard enough replace maiming with outright death.  If that's not hard enough limit yourself to not using custom party members.  If that's not hard enough limit your party size to 3 or 4.  The list goes on and on.  And if none of it is hard enough, congratulations, you are just too good for this game.

 

PotD doesn't fix the difficulty issues. You can shove your trial of iron where the sun doesn't shine. The very definition of easy is getting through the game without dying. If you never have to rethink your approach how the hell is that hard? Trial of the Iron just puishes you for playing when you should be in bed. Hell half the time I know I should go to bed its because I have started to suck at whatever game I am playing atm. The other half its that I am not able to read subtitles on anime. So to play trial of iron I would need to actually be fully awake every single time I am in game. Its not difficulty.

[sparklecat]

 

As opposed to avoiding those quests because otherwise there's no challenge to the game?

 

I really do not care if people whose chosen playstyle is to skip half the game find it hard to complete as a result.  It should be that way.

 

No, it shouldn't.  This game offers so many ways to increase the difficulty.  I just don't get what you people are complaining about.  Play the game on PotD.  If that's not hard enough, play it on Trials of Iron too.  If that's not hard enough replace maiming with outright death.  If that's not hard enough limit yourself to not using custom party members.  If that's not hard enough limit your party size to 3 or 4.  The list goes on and on.  And if none of it is hard enough, congratulations, you are just too good for this game.

 

Alternatively hard difficulty could actually remain hard even when I'm experiencing the majority of the content.  The game offers ways for you to decrease difficulty if a game balanced for people who want to play most of it is too difficult.

[ComplyOrDie]

 

As opposed to avoiding those quests because otherwise there's no challenge to the game?

 

I really do not care if people whose chosen playstyle is to skip half the game find it hard to complete as a result.  It should be that way.

 

No, it shouldn't.  This game offers so many ways to increase the difficulty.  I just don't get what you people are complaining about.  Play the game on PotD.  If that's not hard enough, play it on Trials of Iron too.  If that's not hard enough replace maiming with outright death.  If that's not hard enough limit yourself to not using custom party members.  If that's not hard enough limit your party size to 3 or 4.  The list goes on and on.  And if none of it is hard enough, congratulations, you are just too good for this game.

 

 

The fact is Path was designed for people who want a "hardcore" challenge while playing Pillars, in its current state, it doesn't provide that except for one or two encounters, therefore, people will ask for it to be made a bit harder without having to resort to self handicapping, which ruins much of the fun and immersion. There are people who enjoy story and tough combat at the same time, and just want the encounters to provide that tactical challenge given that many people think a good combat system and interesting character progression have been designed. If you are content with it how it is that's fine, but there are enough people with an issue to request it's given some attention.

 

I tend to agree you should first try path, use the standard companions, and stick on expert mode before worrying about difficulty. I have, and I'm not too good at this game, I can do most fights using very few abilities at all so skill isn't a factor. Send in the tank and shoot everything while he survives indefinitely, and to me that's not right for a mode specifically designed for sadists.

[durbal]

The game is too easy, but for you guys making super deflection tanks with ranged damage dealers: lolwut.  I realize it's brainless and seems to work, but it's not overly viable without savescumming when the enemy gets to your back lines, making it pretty unviable with Trial of Iron since there's no 'safety net' for when things go bad.  Plus it's boring and slow compared to other things.

[ComplyOrDie]

The game is too easy, but for you guys making super deflection tanks with ranged damage dealers: lolwut.  I realize it's brainless and seems to work, but it's not overly viable without savescumming when the enemy gets to your back lines, making it pretty unviable with Trial of Iron since there's no 'safety net' for when things go bad.  Plus it's boring and slow compared to other things.

 

Well the safety net is the figurine tanks, although now the price has been upped they're far less accessible which is good, as well as Durance's intervention spell. I'm currently building Eder as a Two handed dps/offtank in a new playthrough and it's a bit more fun, also ditched aloth so no fireball spam and ditched Durance. How do you build a respectable non super deflection tank without deliberately making him crap?

Edited April 6, 2015 by ComplyOrDie

[durbal]

 

The game is too easy, but for you guys making super deflection tanks with ranged damage dealers: lolwut.  I realize it's brainless and seems to work, but it's not overly viable without savescumming when the enemy gets to your back lines, making it pretty unviable with Trial of Iron since there's no 'safety net' for when things go bad.  Plus it's boring and slow compared to other things.

 

Well the safety net is the figurine tanks, although now the price has been upped they're far less accessible which is good, as well as Durance's intervention spell. I'm currently building Eder as a Two handed dps/offtank in a new playthrough and it's a bit more fun, also ditched aloth so no fireball spam and ditched Durance. How do you build a respectable non super deflection tank without deliberately making him crap?

 

I realized after a bit that having deflection beyond a certain amount on a single character is pointless due to the encounter system.  You don't need to not take any damage -- that's overkill.  Taking defensive options on different characters (especially using modals) and weapon swapping is more reliable.  That way if a spirit jumps on your back line, for example, they can defend themselves and the frontliners can actually deal enough damage to kill the spirit.

 

It also makes the game a lot more fun.