Chanters too slow

[T2k5]

I agree. I barely ever get to the point where I get to use an invocation and by then the fight is already won anyway. They need to come one phrase sooner.

It's quite easy, though cheesy, to get to use them in most fights by positioning your party far away from the enemies, then sending a tank to pull the mobs to your already charged up squad of chanters. Boring but safe.

[Kintara]

 

I agree. I barely ever get to the point where I get to use an invocation and by then the fight is already won anyway. They need to come one phrase sooner.

It's quite easy, though cheesy, to get to use them in most fights by positioning your party far away from the enemies, then sending a tank to pull the mobs to your already charged up squad of chanters. Boring but safe.

 

Well, if you're not into doing that, you can also just use someone in the group (including summons) to keep pulling monsters for you to fight. People are so used to letting combat end so they can recover. But most of the time I'm perfectly fine after a fight.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Kintara

[Narvallus]

What difficulty are you on? It is an issue for easy and normal, but on hard I use invocations fair bit. I do think they need to be tweaked though. it takes far too long for some of the effects to be worthwhile. with some tuning I think having the chant requirement of each level reduced by one could help.

 

I agree with that 

[tnc]

I play on hard difficulty with a fighter/monk/barb/cipher/druid/priest party that has huge dps in total and average fight duration for me is about 15-20 seconds, so chanter is pretty useless at the moment imo. It might be useful in the hardest difficulty, has anyone tried it ? how long do the battles take is it shorter or longer ?

[Magrusaod]

Chanters are a sustain buffer class. Who have an invocation mechanic to help them out for when fights go long enough. They work just fine. If you are using a group that just is high DPS and stomping the enemy in 3 rounds, then you don't run a chanter in the group. It's counter intuitive. Not every group works this way though. For groups that are taking longer to kill things, especially higher difficulties, the endurance regen, damage reduction and ranged attack speed buffs can be hugely beneficial if fights lasts 30 seconds instead of 12. 

[Starthief]

Chanters are better than Paladins, I think, and I like them more than wizards or priests.  "Sure-Handed Ila" is nice to have when your chanter, a rogue and a cipher are all using guns.  They can tank decently if you set them up for it.  The invocations are just icing, really. -- extra sustain when you need it, which isn't going to be every fight.

[wolfing]

I guess the usage of chanters depends on playstyle. They work great for me, as I use my rogue to snipe/insta-kill one of the mobs, then go back to the party. By the time the mob reaches the group, at least 1 token is already up.

Having said that, there is definitely a problem with higher level phrases. As they are now, I prefer not using them at all. They shouldn't last longer than level 1s, as that directly affects the token count, so I prefer just leaving my chants at level 1 phrases so the tokens go faster and I can use the more powerful incantations.  Maybe they could change it so they last the same, but you need a chain of the lower level ones 'building up the tempo', so to sing a level three phrase it needs to go after a level 1 and level 2 phrase (but they all last 4 seconds each).

[Ansa]

So Obsidian guys, can we please have something done about Chanters?

 

E.g.

- Cut 1 chant out of invocations rotation

- Bring all chants, including high level ones, to the base of 3-4 seconds

- Reduce chant times by level

 

Because increasing chants by level just makes them completely obsolete and unusable in later stages (e.g. fight is already over one way or another before Chanter can cast this level 3 invocation after TWENTY FOUR SECONDS)

Edited April 1, 2015 by Ansa

[DigitalCrack]

Building up phrases is slow, I agree with that. However I use invocations all the time and I am playing on normal. Although I pretty much don't use any abilities for small encounters outside of chanter and a few per encounters from my other party members. So my minor battles prob stretch out longer than people consistently using abilities.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

Well I think Chanters are pretty fine as they are. Partially because, I'd argue, opponents getting instagibbed before they could use Invocations is a problem with the party setup (too much dps), and partially because the short battles where they don't get to use their flashy powers would be won just as fast without them anyway, but in the long-running fights, where they can unleash multiple invocations, those invocations can be real game-changers.

 

Granted, I have very little but my own experience to support this, spreadsheet gaming not really being my thing.

[cctobias]

I think they would be fine if there was a talent that gave a once per encounter use +3 phrases instantly.

 

That +3 is negotiable, but you get the idea.

[Fdzzaigl]

I was very disappointed in my chanter because of this "slowness". Though the power of the class immediately shows through the passive buffs and the phantom, it was really boring seeing my main character do so few interesting things.; while other classes were doing some amazing things already.

 

Since getting about 30 hours into the game though (playing on hard), that has changed though. Now that fights take a lot longer and I've given her other things to do, like casting scrolls, she starts to shine more in her role.

 

The paralyze / charm aoe effects can be serious gamechangers when a fight goes the wrong way initially and they continue to be incredibly awesome lwhen a fight drags on (though I need to remember not to paralyze my allies too).

Those abilities show the strength of the class.

 

On the other hand, the direct damage abilities are incredibly weak and definitely require a buff. They simply can't compete with even level 1 druid / wizard spells despite the long spin-up time.

 

Perhaps it would also be interesting to add some active effects to alter your songs. Like speeding up / slowing down your songs for more phrases or stronger buffs respectively (decrescendo, crescendo perhaps?)

[Lekkric]

Seems like the problem most have is the long delay before firing off that first incantation. Starting the fight with 1 phrase banked would help with this, while not allowing the machine-gunning (hyperbole ftw!) of incantations that lowering the cost would do. Ciphers start the fight with focus, why can't chanters start with a head start on their first big cast?

 

Obsidian, make it so!

[Veynn]

Chanters are kinda slow. I kinda dumped Kana because he's not doing anything significant in my party combat. 

[Ceranai]

Chanters are kinda slow. I kinda dumped Kana because he's not doing anything significant in my party combat. 

Chanters are Op already they definitely do NOT need a buff:

 

 

Say hello to my little friends!

 

(this was level 2/3 i think, i literally went straight from the prologue, to the inn, to raedrics and full cleared his castle before killing him)

Edited April 4, 2015 by Ceranai

[Epsilon Rose]

It isn't really that chanters are weak, so much as the way their mechanics come together is somewhat boring and ill-suited to progression.

[Ceranai]

It isn't really that chanters are weak, so much as the way their mechanics come together is somewhat boring and ill-suited to progression.

Agree 100%- despite the combo above being super powerful it was super boring to play, all they do is chant and summon xD, even gave them bows to liven it up a bit but it doesnt really make a difference 80% of the damage comes from the summons and no one hits hard enough to kill 5 phantoms in 12 seconds

[Ondb]

The fix is really easy:

 

1/ During combat create 1 resource every 4 seconds.

2/ Balance invocations around different cost more.

[Ichthyic]

like some others noted... since chanters can basically do anything and still chant, I use mine as my scroll user.

you can make and find and buy a myriad of VERY powerful scrolls in this game, both offensive and defensive, but typically most of your characters are attacking, or shooting, or casting a spell.

but your chanter.... has both hands free.

give them a decent lore skill, and fill their pockets with scrolls.

then there is no need to wait for their invocation, you can have them "invoking" every turn if you want.  even cheap scrolls can be very valuable in battle.

I suppose it takes a bit more micromanagement than a lot of folks would like, but I find it adds a lot of variablity to the game that I personally enjoy.

plus, Kana almost always has some off color remark to make everywhere you go. 





 

[Ceranai]

like some others noted... since chanters can basically do anything and still chant, I use mine as my scroll user.

 

you can make and find and buy a myriad of VERY powerful scrolls in this game, both offensive and defensive, but typically most of your characters are attacking, or shooting, or casting a spell.

 

but your chanter.... has both hands free.

 

give them a decent lore skill, and fill their pockets with scrolls.

 

then there is no need to wait for their invocation, you can have them "invoking" every turn if you want.  even cheap scrolls can be very valuable in battle.

 

I suppose it takes a bit more micromanagement than a lot of folks would like, but I find it adds a lot of variablity to the game that I personally enjoy.

 

plus, Kana almost always has some off color remark to make everywhere you go. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly, what makes chanters so good is that their summon dps and health etc it totally independent of of their stats or what they are doing, i mean you can have 3 tank summoners and three ranged summoners, really doesnt matter, i mean i would argue that summons are so strong getting anythin other than phantom as an invocation is a waste of point unless you already have a summon active

[Ohioastro]

I'd like a fixed time delay for all phrases, so that you could use the higher level chants without delaying summons. No other class has to wait longer to cast more powerful spells.

[Ceranai]

I'd like a fixed time delay for all phrases, so that you could use the higher level chants without delaying summons. No other class has to wait longer to cast more powerful spells.

No other class has unlimited access to summoning cheese.

 

(just the level one phantom is a free 50 HP every 12 seconds, cant imagine what drakes are like

Edited April 5, 2015 by Ceranai

[Shadenuat]

If you're bored your chanter has nothing to do in combat until invocation (if it would ever come to it), slap all spell-binding items you find on chanter. You can create whole collection of second-hand spells for him to use that way, and they are all mostly 3/rest.

Max Lore and fill all his fast slots with scrolls too since other party members generally never have to use them.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Shadenuat

[Akimbo]

Phrase level should = # of chants. Finish chanting a level 3 phrase? Now you have 3 chants and can use a level 1 invocation.

 

Level 3 Invocation needs 5 chants? Then you need to finish:

 

1 level 3 phrase + 1 level 2 phrase,

 

1 level 3 phrase + 2x level 1 phrase,

 

etc. etc.

 

Not sure how well or balanced this would be, might need some more specific tweaking to be "fair".

 

However I still find myself thinking I should have just made a fighter...and I never play pure fighters.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Akimbo

[Epsilon Rose]

like some others noted... since chanters can basically do anything and still chant, I use mine as my scroll user.

 

you can make and find and buy a myriad of VERY powerful scrolls in this game, both offensive and defensive, but typically most of your characters are attacking, or shooting, or casting a spell.

 

but your chanter.... has both hands free.

 

give them a decent lore skill, and fill their pockets with scrolls.

 

then there is no need to wait for their invocation, you can have them "invoking" every turn if you want.  even cheap scrolls can be very valuable in battle.

 

I suppose it takes a bit more micromanagement than a lot of folks would like, but I find it adds a lot of variablity to the game that I personally enjoy.

 

plus, Kana almost always has some off color remark to make everywhere you go. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The problem with that is I'm never very comfortable using consumables and I have no idea what resources are actually worth in PoE or what items/upgrades materials can actually be spent on.