LordCrash Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 ITT the only people in the world who think Bloodborne and PoE target different audiences. Actually there might be some on rpgcodex too. You know so little about hardcore PC gamers in general and hardcore RPG gamers on PC in particular. And same is true for PS4/console gamers... And the rpgcodex IS pretty much the core audience of Pillars. The rpgcodes pretty much only exists for such games. At the same time, 90%+ of all console gamers don't give a fu*k about an oldschool PC exclusive RPG. They don't even give a sh*t about indie games in general. No, you know very little about RPG gamers in general because you spend all your time in echo chambers like this forum and RPG codex talking to people who think just like you do about a very specific demographically minuscule subset of RPGs, ignoring all the rest. How do you know how I spend my time? And actually this game here only exists because "people like me". It's not your typical AAA mainstream game. This game is made for a very specific audience, namely oldschool PC RPG fans. And I know very well that few of them have even the slightest interest in playing a console action game like Bloodborne. And about RPGs: like I've said in the other thread. Just because you want Bloodborne to be an RPG (for whatever reason) it doesn't make it one. Without choice&consequence (aka dialogue branching) there is no RPG, not in the PnP world and not in video games. Everything else is marketing and PR because nowadays every game wants to be an "super complex RPG" to brag about. Level progression simply isn't the only mechanic that defines an RPG. And just for your information: I play all kinds of games, not only RPGs. Action games, sports games, platformers, adventures, special interest games, shooters, strategy games, tactical games and so on. Still Bloodborne is not something I even remotely connect or compare to Pillars. It's a completely different thing. Of course some people play both games (which is pretty much true for every two bigger games on the market...) but that doesn't mean they're made for the same core audience... 1
Logos Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 ITT the only people in the world who think Bloodborne and PoE target different audiences. Actually there might be some on rpgcodex too. You know so little about hardcore PC gamers in general and hardcore RPG gamers on PC in particular. And same is true for PS4/console gamers... And the rpgcodex IS pretty much the core audience of Pillars. The rpgcodes pretty much only exists for such games. At the same time, 90%+ of all console gamers don't give a fu*k about an oldschool PC exclusive RPG. They don't even give a sh*t about indie games in general. No, you know very little about RPG gamers in general because you spend all your time in echo chambers like this forum and RPG codex talking to people who think just like you do about a very specific demographically minuscule subset of RPGs, ignoring all the rest. How do you know how I spend my time? Because those are the only places where the "An RPG is only an RPG if it has branching dialog" argument is offered in earnest. Everywhere else it's rightly ridiculed. What really makes this funny to me is that under your definition games like HuniePop are RPGs while games like Dark Souls aren't. I literally can't even. "Of all the kids in The Breakfast Club, Ally Sheedy would be the first one to sense Cthulhu's coming." -Patton Oswalt
Bollockoff Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 Oh woe to be a fan of the Souls and Baldur's Gate games. Woe to own both a PC and PS4. Woe to have limited time to spend on games. Welcome to the Starship **** My Life 2
LordCrash Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 ITT the only people in the world who think Bloodborne and PoE target different audiences. Actually there might be some on rpgcodex too. You know so little about hardcore PC gamers in general and hardcore RPG gamers on PC in particular. And same is true for PS4/console gamers... And the rpgcodex IS pretty much the core audience of Pillars. The rpgcodes pretty much only exists for such games. At the same time, 90%+ of all console gamers don't give a fu*k about an oldschool PC exclusive RPG. They don't even give a sh*t about indie games in general. No, you know very little about RPG gamers in general because you spend all your time in echo chambers like this forum and RPG codex talking to people who think just like you do about a very specific demographically minuscule subset of RPGs, ignoring all the rest. How do you know how I spend my time? Because those are the only places where the "An RPG is only an RPG if it has branching dialog" argument is offered in earnest. Everywhere else it's rightly ridiculed. What really makes this funny to me is that under your definition games like HuniePop are RPGs while games like Dark Souls aren't. I literally can't even. That's not my definition. That's just common sense. I guess by "everywhere else" you mean specific places? Or is this just an "anonymous authority" argument? And like Dark Souls HuniePop (I had to google that first...) seems to have some RPG elements. That doesn't make neither of them an RPG. By your definition CoD in multiplayer is an RPG as well because it offers level progression? Yeah, why not... Maybe we should just call everything RPG in order to make nobody sad that his or her favorite game isn't among the genre. Who cares if there is actual ROLE PLAYING in the game or not... 1
Pyromancer Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 It's also released on same day as probably 20 other games, oh no, whatever shall we do 3
Voss Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 It didn't affect me, but some hardcore RPG gamers would mind. I can't remember when 2 such great RPG games were in such tight schedule. I think Witcher 3 postponed to may because of that. Because no one cares about console trash. 4
Logos Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 That's not my definition. That's just common sense. I guess by "everywhere else" you mean specific places? Or is this just an "anonymous authority" argument? And like Dark Souls HuniePop (I had to google that first...) seems to have some RPG elements. That doesn't make neither of them an RPG. By your definition CoD in multiplayer is an RPG as well because it offers level progression? Yeah, why not... Maybe we should just call everything RPG in order to make nobody sad that his or her favorite game isn't among the genre. Who cares if there is actual ROLE PLAYING in the game or not... I haven't offered a definition, I have just given examples of games I think are RPGs. CoD is not among them, nor have I said anything that could reasonably lead one to believe that I would think so. Meanwhile, HuniePop (a dating sim) satisfies all criteria you have mentioned so far. It doesn't just have 'RPG elements', there is not one 'RPG element' that is present in Baldur's Gate but absent in HuniePop. It has level progression, it has branching dialog, it has meaningful choices, it has equipment, it has spells, it has tactical combat. Using your definition (uh, excuse me, "common sense") there is no group that includes BG but excludes HuniePop, which is patently absurd, as it is a bejeweled-like puzzle game/dating sim, and not an RPG. "Of all the kids in The Breakfast Club, Ally Sheedy would be the first one to sense Cthulhu's coming." -Patton Oswalt
Veevoir Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 (edited) By your definition CoD in multiplayer is an RPG as well because it offers level progression? Yeah, why not... Maybe we should just call everything RPG in order to make nobody sad that his or her favorite game isn't among the genre. Who cares if there is actual ROLE PLAYING in the game or not...[/size]Maybe not CoD, but Borderlands for sure is RPG. There is levelling, skills, loot and equipment management. There are even classes to choose from! And, like, dialogue. Your grognardy ways of an echo-chambered mind may not fathom that, but just having loot-powered skinner box and a system of mechanical character progression are enough to call a game role-playing. Hell, even having a character with a story is enough to role-play, as it has a role. Logos is right - you need to frequent other sites, like NeoGaf or Gamespot. Not just rot your brain in places like RPGCodex. EDIT: as for HuniePop.. straight from their steam site description: It's a gameplay first approach that's part dating sim, part puzzle game, with light RPG elements, a visual novel style of presentation, an abrasive western writing style and plenty of "plot".[/size]Emphasis mine. Edited March 24, 2015 by Veevoir 1
LordCrash Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 That's not my definition. That's just common sense. I guess by "everywhere else" you mean specific places? Or is this just an "anonymous authority" argument? And like Dark Souls HuniePop (I had to google that first...) seems to have some RPG elements. That doesn't make neither of them an RPG. By your definition CoD in multiplayer is an RPG as well because it offers level progression? Yeah, why not... Maybe we should just call everything RPG in order to make nobody sad that his or her favorite game isn't among the genre. Who cares if there is actual ROLE PLAYING in the game or not... I haven't offered a definition, I have just given examples of games I think are RPGs. CoD is not among them, nor have I said anything that could reasonably lead one to believe that I would think so. Meanwhile, HuniePop (a dating sim) satisfies all criteria you have mentioned so far. It doesn't just have 'RPG elements', there is not one 'RPG element' that is present in Baldur's Gate but absent in HuniePop. It has level progression, it has branching dialog, it has meaningful choices, it has equipment, it has spells, it has tactical combat. Using your definition (uh, excuse me, "common sense") there is no group that includes BG but excludes HuniePop, which is patently absurd, as it is a bejeweled-like puzzle game/dating sim, and not an RPG. Funnily enough I have never mentioned any criteria other than that it's stupid to call any game an RPG if there is no actual role play (which means no choice&consequence)... HuniePop is a classical hybrid because it has elements of many different genres. That's the simple reason why it makes no sense to call it RPG. By calling it so you would deny (or at least conceal) that the game has other levels like the sim stuff. Genres are used to describe a game best. The best description for Dark Souls or Bloodborne is action game with RPG mechanics. Simple. 1
LordCrash Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 By your definition CoD in multiplayer is an RPG as well because it offers level progression? Yeah, why not... Maybe we should just call everything RPG in order to make nobody sad that his or her favorite game isn't among the genre. Who cares if there is actual ROLE PLAYING in the game or not...[/size]Maybe not CoD, but Borderlands for sure is RPG. There is levelling, skills, loot and equipment management. There are even classes to choose from! And, like, dialogue. Your grognardy ways of an echo-chambered mind may not fathom that, but just having loot-powered skinner box and a system of mechanical character progression are enough to call a game role-playing. Hell, even having a character with a story is enough to role-play, as it has a role. Logos is right - you need to frequent other sites, like NeoGaf or Gamespot. Not just rot your brain in places like RPGCodex. First, equipment management is not an RPG mechanic but more a general game mechanic that many genres use. Second, BL is much more an RPG than the Souls games. But it still lacks proper choice&consequence. Third, I don't have an "echo-chambered mind" just because I want genre descriptions to actually make sense instead of just falling for marketing schemes. Forth, RPGs as video games have their roots in PnP. There is NO PnP RPG without choice&consequence. It's literally the core of the whole thing besides taking your class and role at the beginning. In PnP RPGs everything is about choice. RPGs are more than just mathematical calculations in the background. If you don't see that you don't know what RPGs are actually all about, sorry. Fifth, I hate the RPGcodex. But I'm a regular visitor of several German and international games sites, Gamespot included. I hope the Neogaf one was a joke, though. Neogaf isn't much better than 4chan imo. Just a bunch of bored people from whom I not even know if they have any interest in video games at all... Anyway, Bloodborne and PoE don't have the same core audience so the same release window isn't a big problem for most gamers. That's my opinion.
Veevoir Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 Not only the neogaf part was a joke. So for the record - when not joking or writing posts that trigger poe's law - I agree with you LordCrash. 2
PromisedPain Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 Is Bloodborne the one that's only like 3 hours long or am I thinking of the Order? From what I've read Bloodborne is around 30-60 hours (it varies a lot, it also depends if you're doing any side stuff, and of course how many times you die) The Refund 1886 is the game that lasts around 3 hours, I'm glad I skipped that game.
VladWorks Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 This "Bloodborn" game is Dark Souls 2.0 don't know what's the hype about, I saw a few YouTube play throughs already and think its a copy paste job by From Software.
Justinian Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 Dragon Age Inquisition DLC also dropped today. Very sneaky of BioWare. Not that I'm buying that after the boredom that Inquisition induced in me.
LordCrash Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 (edited) This "Bloodborn" game is Dark Souls 2.0 don't know what's the hype about, I saw a few YouTube play throughs already and think its a copy paste job by From Software. It's actually pretty funny to accuse the Dark Souls series of the "CoD loop" or "AC style milking" and watching the strong reactions from the fanboys since it's usually the self-proclaimed hardcore elite crowd who tells everyone the very same every time a new CoD or AC or whatever comes out... Dragon Age Inquisition DLC also dropped today. Very sneaky of BioWare. Not that I'm buying that after the boredom that Inquisition induced in me. At least you can apparently bind more than two mouse buttons now. FOUR months after release. Epic achievement in game design... Edited March 24, 2015 by LordCrash 1
Grimreapo Posted March 24, 2015 Posted March 24, 2015 That's not my definition. That's just common sense. I guess by "everywhere else" you mean specific places? Or is this just an "anonymous authority" argument? And like Dark Souls HuniePop (I had to google that first...) seems to have some RPG elements. That doesn't make neither of them an RPG. By your definition CoD in multiplayer is an RPG as well because it offers level progression? Yeah, why not... Maybe we should just call everything RPG in order to make nobody sad that his or her favorite game isn't among the genre. Who cares if there is actual ROLE PLAYING in the game or not... I haven't offered a definition, I have just given examples of games I think are RPGs. CoD is not among them, nor have I said anything that could reasonably lead one to believe that I would think so. Meanwhile, HuniePop (a dating sim) satisfies all criteria you have mentioned so far. It doesn't just have 'RPG elements', there is not one 'RPG element' that is present in Baldur's Gate but absent in HuniePop. It has level progression, it has branching dialog, it has meaningful choices, it has equipment, it has spells, it has tactical combat. Using your definition (uh, excuse me, "common sense") there is no group that includes BG but excludes HuniePop, which is patently absurd, as it is a bejeweled-like puzzle game/dating sim, and not an RPG. I'm a PC gamer, I have all of the original IE games in their original boxes (well other than the PS:T jewel which got smashed in ) and I love paradox wargames, I'm also hyped for Bloodborne as I loves me some Demon's Souls (heck, I even imported a copy from the US as it was not coming in Europe) and Dark Souls. So I am hyped for both Bloodborne and PoE but making a thread about it on the official forums just asking for "elitists" who know nothing about about the game to judge you because you like console games. I mean if we made a PoE thread over on the Bioware forums there would be a similar reaction and dismissal of somehting that "different" and not "pure" enough... This "Bloodborn" game is Dark Souls 2.0 don't know what's the hype about, I saw a few YouTube play throughs already and think its a copy paste job by From Software. That is like saying that Icewind Dale is just a copy and paste of Balur's Gate...
Hassat Hunter Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 So... ehm... What's Bloodborne? Never heard of it, should I have? 4 ^ I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5. TSLRCM Official Forum || TSLRCM Moddb || My other KOTOR2 mods || TSLRCM (English version) on Steam || [M4-78EP on Steam Formerly known as BattleWookiee/BattleCookiee
Hassat Hunter Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 (edited) EDIT: Double posted somehow... plz dete. Edited March 25, 2015 by Hassat Hunter ^ I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5. TSLRCM Official Forum || TSLRCM Moddb || My other KOTOR2 mods || TSLRCM (English version) on Steam || [M4-78EP on Steam Formerly known as BattleWookiee/BattleCookiee
Kaldaien Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 (edited) EDIT: Double posted \ Edited March 25, 2015 by Kaldaien
Kaldaien Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 It's not, really. Amazon delayed Bloodborne until April 27th. I cancelled my order after they did that, I'm just going to pass on that game altogether I think.
PromisedPain Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 This "Bloodborn" game is Dark Souls 2.0 don't know what's the hype about, I saw a few YouTube play throughs already and think its a copy paste job by From Software. It's actually pretty funny to accuse the Dark Souls series of the "CoD loop" or "AC style milking" and watching the strong reactions from the fanboys since it's usually the self-proclaimed hardcore elite crowd who tells everyone the very same every time a new CoD or AC or whatever comes out... Dragon Age Inquisition DLC also dropped today. Very sneaky of BioWare. Not that I'm buying that after the boredom that Inquisition induced in me. At least you can apparently bind more than two mouse buttons now. FOUR months after release. Epic achievement in game design... Funny how you're bashing DA:I's combat, but you have an avatar of The Witcher. Witcher 2 was basically mashing mouse buttons and pressing 1 2 every now and then for a sign spell. Don't get me wrong I love those games, as well as Dragon Age.
Kaldaien Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 Funny how you're bashing DA:I's combat, but you have an avatar of The Witcher. Witcher 2 was basically mashing mouse buttons and pressing 1 2 every now and then for a sign spell. Don't get me wrong I love those games, as well as Dragon Age. I hate to say it, but that's pretty much how any Action RPG works \ Risen did things a little differently by making timing so important and giving little to no visual feedback, and people complained incessantly about that. The Witcher had a little bit of tactical feel to it, about as much as you could expect from non-turn-based gameplay, but it's really quite shallow in the end.
Voss Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 So... ehm... What's Bloodborne? Never heard of it, should I have? Not really. It has had a spate of ads on youtube recently. Apparently a vampire with a bumpy scythe/stick thing kills people or whatever. Basically its being pushed as the game that finally makes a ps4 worth owning. Or something. If there is something special or interesting about it, well that escapes me entirely. 1
RHelg224 Posted March 25, 2015 Posted March 25, 2015 Yeah well Amazon managed to screw up release date delivery of Bloodborne so now it's even worse. My copy didn't come today. I'm so sad.
Recommended Posts