gkathellar Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 The first gives them +10 to Fort/Ref/Will, and the second gives them +8 to Deflection. Unfortunately, the second mode doesn't seem to stack with Cautious Attack. Food for thought, though. That would be very frustrating to learn after leveling up. Yeah, although in fairness, +10 to Fort/Ref/Will is pretty good bang for your buck. If I'm typing in red, it means I'm being sarcastic. But not this time. Dark green, on the other hand, is for jokes and irony in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderon Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Gauntlets? (monk only?) Nomadic Wayfarer of the Obsidian Order Not all those that wander are lost... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkathellar Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Whatever they were, they wouldn't need to be monk-only. Only monks can fight unarmed effectively, item bonuses or no. Really, though, I'd prefer a fast, evasive martial arts class over one that draws its power from getting hit. It comes across more like a barbarian, IMO. If I'm typing in red, it means I'm being sarcastic. But not this time. Dark green, on the other hand, is for jokes and irony in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd Hermit Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) The first gives them +10 to Fort/Ref/Will, and the second gives them +8 to Deflection. Unfortunately, the second mode doesn't seem to stack with Cautious Attack. Food for thought, though. That would be very frustrating to learn after leveling up. Yeah, although in fairness, +10 to Fort/Ref/Will is pretty good bang for your buck. Modals are the strongest offensive and defense talents, but you can only have one active. So it's an opportunity cost. Can't have DT penetration, +15 Deflection, x1.2 melee damage, etc. etc. active at same time so it has to be weighed against those, not other talents that give less but aren't a modal. The one good thing is it gives you two modals that you can choose between, and it'd allow some flexibility vs. enemy types. If you're facing casters, the Fort/Reflex/Will may come in handy more than deflection. And of course, no penalty to attack speed from the +8 Deflection. However, deflection is worth more and more the higher you get it, so -7 can be a pretty substantial loss if you're building a tank character. Also, it's from the Monk ability pool, not the regular talent pool. So you miss out on some other powerful abilities, while often with talents there's nothing amazing to pick up after you get your basics. I would take it if were available @ level 2 though, when you have to pick between Torment's Reach and Swift Strikes. I'd rather spend all my Wounds on Force of Anguish. Edited March 17, 2015 by Odd Hermit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roguelike Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Most modals aren't exclusive, you can have more than one up at a time. It's kind of arbitrary which ones you can't, but most of them you can. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd Hermit Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) Most modals aren't exclusive, you can have more than one up at a time. It's kind of arbitrary which ones you can't, but most of them you can. Most that I've tried to use together didn't work. Just tested and you can have Cautious Attack and the DoMP Deflection active at the same time, but you only get the highest Deflection source as I kind of expected. You can combine DoMP Other Defenses with it though, so I guess it's actually a pretty solid choice for saves. And after fiddling with a fighter with tons of modal talents to check, I have to say they really need to work on their in game descriptions for these. There's just nothing at all to tell you which are mutually exclusive, which can be active at the same time for some odd reason but don't stack their benefits, and those that can actually be successfully combined. The only one that seems to be capable of stacking with others that you might want at the same time is Vulnerable Attack, but I'm kinda "meh" about it since it seems like it scales poorly. And Paladin Zealous Modals apparently combine with anything except eachother which makes sense, didn't know that. I feel bad now as I believe I told someone you can't stack them with other modals at some point. :/ Edited March 17, 2015 by Odd Hermit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 am not sure about tattoos. removable tattoos seem so beverly hills. [...] No-one said they'd be removable. I think the tattoo idea is great, but they absolutely shouldn't be removable. Upgradable, maybe, additive, maybe, but absolutely not upgradeable. Anyone using them should consider them a permanent upgrade to the character, a build choice, like a Talent or Ability. Dibs on the Flaming Fist tattoo for my left forearm (fire damage) and the Iron Throne tattoo for the back of my right hand (+Penetration). permanent and non-removable tattoos is, in our opinion, a bad idea. is only one (or two) slots for weapons. sssssoooooo... our monk equips the Flaming Fist tattoo he finds at level 3 and which is balanced for level 3. he is now stuck with it? am s'posing you could make the tattoo increase in power as you level, but again, what if halfway through the game you decide that the Bite o' the Malefic Spider is much kewler? hell, if you knew the spider bite tattoo would be available later in the game, you would never have equipped the damn flamey fist tattoo. would you force a fighter or rogue to equip a weapon and be stuck with it for the duration o' the game? 'course not. as an aside, we always laugh when we see Flaming Fist. is a rather notorious gay bar by the same name. the etymology o' the term predates BG and is rather... colorful. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckmann Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 am not sure about tattoos. removable tattoos seem so beverly hills. [...] No-one said they'd be removable. I think the tattoo idea is great, but they absolutely shouldn't be removable. Upgradable, maybe, additive, maybe, but absolutely not upgradeable. Anyone using them should consider them a permanent upgrade to the character, a build choice, like a Talent or Ability. Dibs on the Flaming Fist tattoo for my left forearm (fire damage) and the Iron Throne tattoo for the back of my right hand (+Penetration). permanent and non-removable tattoos is, in our opinion, a bad idea. is only one (or two) slots for weapons. sssssoooooo... our monk equips the Flaming Fist tattoo he finds at level 3 and which is balanced for level 3. he is now stuck with it? am s'posing you could make the tattoo increase in power as you level, but again, what if halfway through the game you decide that the Bite o' the Malefic Spider is much kewler? hell, if you knew the spider bite tattoo would be available later in the game, you would never have equipped the damn flamey fist tattoo. would you force a fighter or rogue to equip a weapon and be stuck with it for the duration o' the game? 'course not. as an aside, we always laugh when we see Flaming Fist. is a rather notorious gay bar by the same name. the etymology o' the term predates BG and is rather... colorful. HA! Good Fun! To me, that's like saying that Talents should be respeccable, too, because you may decide at one point that you'd want something else. The comparison to rogue or fighter being stuck with a weapon they equipped for the entire game doesn't hold water, because there'd be nothing preventing the monk from changing his weapons. And like I said, upgradable, or even additive, so.. yeah, there's, like, a whole sentence there that reads like you didn't even read my post, Gromnir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) we addressed additive and upgradable. please read again. as to saying that weapons is different, then where is you adding your Flaming Fist? most folks is speaking o' this in terms o' a monk weapon replacement, such as the aforementioned hand-wraps and similar such ITEMS. tattoos, while physical, is an alternative to such stuff. place in weapon slot. wanna appeal to obsidian to create a Flaming Fist talent? fine. is a complete different issue. HA! Good Fun! Edited March 17, 2015 by Gromnir "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whipstitch Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Tbh, removable body paint doesn't hit me as unacceptable depending on how you fluff things. Mehndi is often traditionally associated with women and brides in particular, but it's an old, old practice. Likewise warpaint is hardly a new idea, particularly in the Americas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Tbh, removable body paint doesn't hit me as unacceptable depending on how you fluff things. Mehndi is often traditionally associated with women and brides in particular, but it's an old, old practice. Likewise warpaint is hardly a new idea, particularly in the Americas. not so much a monk thing though, eh? whether is men who live a monastic lifestyle and likely garden and makes beer, or the kung-fu saturday movie matinee variety, "warpaint" doesn't fit quite so well. we get the desire for tattoos 'cause it is, more or less, supported by the mythology. got a dragon on left arm and tiger on the right? is cliché, but why buck the archetype, eh? the thing is, tattoos is permanent, unless you got it outta a crackerjack box. *shrug* stick something in the weapon slot that says, "monk," while still being unarmed. we suggested prayers/meditations/rites, but a rosary would work just as well. most o' the major rl religions got prayer beads in some form, so we can see something similar for poe monks that would feel appropriate. ultimately, doesn't matter too much the form. regardless, we get why folks would want unarmed to have same built-in upgrades as all the other weapon types. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkathellar Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 wanna appeal to obsidian to create a Flaming Fist talent? I do serve the Flaming Fist. If I'm typing in red, it means I'm being sarcastic. But not this time. Dark green, on the other hand, is for jokes and irony in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Answermancer Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 The first gives them +10 to Fort/Ref/Will, and the second gives them +8 to Deflection. Unfortunately, the second mode doesn't seem to stack with Cautious Attack. Food for thought, though. That would be very frustrating to learn after leveling up. Just as a note, spells/powers/active abilities never stack if they buff the same stat. I believe the highest positive and highest negative are added up and that's what is active (so if you get +15 deflection for a modal, +10 deflection from a Priest buff, and -12 deflection from an enemy debuff you would have +3 deflection, if you turned off the modal you would have -2, if the debuff wore off and you had the modal on you would have +15). Bonuses from armor (anything not in a weapon/shield slot) don't stack either, and work the same way. All passives (mostly from class and talents) stack, and bonuses on items in weapon slots stack. Some of this is explained in the game when you mouse over stuff in the character sheet, some on loading screens, I really hope the tutorial in the final game does a good job making this clear or people will be confused (about the active ability thing in particular I think, the items not stacking has more of a precedent). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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