Let's get gossipy: friction between Avellone and Sawyer?

[Rahelron]

Seeing the last two panels held by Obsidian at Pax South and Pax East I noticed something in the Behaviour of the panelists that reinforced a convinction I already had: I think there's friction between Chris Avellone and Josh Sawyer.

Evidence:

• During the first stages of development Chris Avellone stated that those at InExile Entertainment were listening to him much more than those at Obsidian. He said something about the fact that his ideas were more welcome at Inexile than at Obsidian.
• Later (in another interview) Josh Sawyer said that Obsidian didn't want to try anything too new about PoE's setting: they needed something that felt high fantasy and that had humans, dwarves and elves in it. All they could do was giving a twist to these classic themes. I think I heard somewhere that Avellone is bored by classic fantasy settings.
• During Pax south Avellone praised Sawyer, but noone had asked for his opinion about him. He listed things he had learnt from Josh, like letting the player doing whatever he wants, even if that means screwing up the plot. I can tell by experience that when someone does that it is because he disagrees with the one he is speaking about on everything else.
• During Pax East someone asked if we will see a plot device in PoE like the one we had in Planescape Torment (the main character cannot die, when he gets killed he is sent in a maze instead). Avellone tried to answer, but Sawyer started speaking first. At that point avellone had a reaction like "He always does that, I'm not surprised anymore". Chris had the chance to speak in the end, but his first reaction is a big tell to me.

What do you think about this? If this friction was really a thing do you think it could have hurt game design and development?

[Leferd]

...

 

Just some random thoughts.

 

1) it's not appropriate to be rumormongering

2) this isn't the gossip pages

3) what purpose does this serve?

4) so what if they don't (or do get along)? How is this an issue? It's normal human dynamic behavior.

5) you're probably looking too much into it anyway.

[C2B]

Nope

Edited March 15, 2015 by C2B

[TheisEjsing]

That was vague. And your assumptions are flawed. The most radiant example is, that the writing lead is Eric Fenstermaker and it's his call to cut some of Avellone's ideas, duo to game tone/theme conflicts. That is not Sawyer. Besides, your 4th assumption is wildly inaccurate. First of all, that was not a gesture of hate. Read the room man, besides that, they're professional adults. There is no way that their relationship has hurt PoE.

Edited March 15, 2015 by TheisEjsing

[Abel]

True or false? Whatever, it"s none of our buisness.

[Rahelron]

...

 

Just some random thoughts.

 

1) it's not appropriate to be rumormongering

2) this isn't the gossip pages

3) what purpose does this serve?

4) so what if they don't (or do get along)? How is this an issue? It's normal human dynamic behavior.

5) you're probably looking too much into it anyway.

 

 

Moderators don't need my permission to cancel or close this thread of course and rest assured that I won't complain if they do. I know that gossiping about people is not polite, I'm just worried about the effects that this friction could have had on the development process. I'm stating my worries publicly, without talking behind the back of anyone. I'm not trying to make trouble or incite someone against someone else.

[gkathellar]

Given that the development process has like a week left, the discussion of any effects it could or could not have had became a moot point some time ago.

[sp3cw4r]

I've noticed this too, especially so after that last panel.  Maybe you two should just hug and make up hmm?

[Rhaeg]

Seeing the last two panels held by Obsidian at Pax South and Pax East I noticed something in the Behaviour of the panelists that reinforced a convinction I already had: I think there's friction between Chris Avellone and Josh Sawyer.

Evidence:

• [Yadda yadda yadda... ]

 

You have some strange ideas about what the word "evidence" means, me thinks...

[Luckmann]

It's not nice to be gossiping, and well and truly beneath us. It is never really constructive, and I've yet to see a situation improve thanks to it, but seen plenty of situations devolve because of it. It even often creates friction where there may not even have been any.

I don't think that this is the time or place for such a discussion, even if I think the discussion itself could be interesting. Ultimately though, we don't know, and we'll probably never know. There is very little to actually discuss, so let's leave it at that, unless there's something to really go on.

Chris Avellone is my master now.

 

[etagloc]

oh lord.. what a post.
gossip of the worst kind. that only servers to split people apart.

btw I saw Chris blink alot.
illuminati lizard people!

[Verenti]

I would note at PAX East, they were sitting in a line, on opposite ends with a podium in the way. There was little way for Mr. Sawyer to see Mr. Avellone.

 

But aside from that, to echo Leferd's sentiment: why does it matter? If they're bitter rivals, which a lot of the points you list do not, even tangentially, support your conclusion, what does it matter?  The have that right, surely? Why do we need to talk about them like they are commodities to consume?

[Ted Striker]

 I'm going to sit on the couch and watch the Kardashians all day. 

[Osvir]

Obviously, Josh & Chris have hot cocoa love for each other. But in the depths of their romance lies much frustration, as they have to take it to the dark alleys of the night, shrouded in mystery, capes and shadows (Only on Tuesdays). Whimsically, they blush, as they slowly reach out to hold hands and then squeel like two little girls only to quickly withdraw their hands, turn around and return home with a warm glow of mandom in their nether regions.


http://suikoden.wikia.com/wiki/Kidd

[Cantousent]

I actually don't care about the gossip aspect per se. I also think that's it's inevitable to have some gossip about developers. However, I closed this topic simply because gossip about designers on a forum hosted by the company designing the game isn't warranted. I don't know about Sawyer's relationship with Avellone. I assume that it's like any relationship between people who've known each other for years... complicated.

 

To be clear: no one asked me to close this thread. The design team hasn't said anything about it as far as I know. I don't actually have anything against the thread and I don't care about gossip. I closed the thread because, while I don't care about gossip in general, I believe we should have at least some respect and decorum regarding the employees (or part owners or whatever) of Obsidian on their own forum.