Chilloutman Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Yes right, they would be strippers even if men would not exist xD Obviously, women who find other women attractive don't exist outside of porn. Well this is new meta in mental gymnastics so to sum it up: strippers in games are mysoginic because they are here to appeal man real world strippers are strippers because they enjoy it and other women enjoy it but it doesnt have anything to do with man ok, i am moving along... I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"
aluminiumtrioxid Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Yes right, they would be strippers even if men would not exist xD Obviously, women who find other women attractive don't exist outside of porn. Well this is new meta in mental gymnastics so to sum it up: strippers in games are mysoginic because they are here to appeal man real world strippers are strippers because they enjoy it and other women enjoy it but it doesnt have anything to do with man No, this is just you failing at reading comprehension. ...is what I'd say if I wanted to be a complete ****. But since being a complete **** doesn't really appeal to me, I just gently point out that making a good faith attempt at understanding what the other side is saying is generally considered to be productive when your goal is actual exchange of ideas. "Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says."
BruceVC Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Depends on what "****" originally was. Which we'll never know, because CENSORSHIP. Ah, what else can one expect from your kind. And Bruce, go get necklaced. Malc thats it !!!! We had an agreement that you wouldn't blame me when you a bad Moose day.....its not my fault that your pet Moose ran into your neighbours gooseberry bush and started munching We discussed this and you agreed...you are transferring your frustration to me ..and its unfair "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
Blarghagh Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 If you guys don't stop sniping at each other this is going to get pruned.
Meshugger Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) So, men should be ashamed for their fantasies about sexy women, but women should be celebrated for being the sexy fantasy? Get the **** outta here Edited March 5, 2015 by Meshugger "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
aluminiumtrioxid Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 So, men should be ashamed for their fantasies about sexy women, but women should be celebrated for being the sexy fantasy? I never said that. Actually, never even alluded to it in any way, shape or form. What was that earlier comment about mental gymnastics? "Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says."
aluminiumtrioxid Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 WTF is with all the hostility toward Bruce. Now I feel left out. T_T "Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says."
Namutree Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 WTF is with all the hostility toward Bruce. Now I feel left out. T_T I put you in at first, but edited you out cuz' they're usually more hostile to bruce than you. "Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking. I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic.
Fighter Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 ..Fictional strippers entirely brought into existence by men, to increase a game's appeal for men is somewhat different from real life, living, breathing, flesh-and-blood people choosing to do that job because - Heavens forbid! - they enjoy it. Phewwwwwww,.....I am so glad you decided to comment...I was completely stumped Guys what alumin said...there is a difference I don't even... Doing it for yourself is when it's done in your bedroom alone. And even then (provided heterosexuality) it is an act inseparable from the desires and preferences of men, it is an act of presenting yourself in a way that is sexually appealing to the other gender. Being an object of desire is where the fun in it is. Yeah, object. The profession of stripper exist because there is a demand for it. It may be fun for some. But it doesn't exist because it's fun. It's purpose and function is the sexual gratification of others. Men or women. Nothing wrong there. Being a stripper is a FICTION. Get it? That's why they dress up to be CHARACTERS. Like a sexy nurse, cop, or Tarzan, whatever.
Gorth Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Thread pruned. Next up is individual censorship I suppose... lets see if we can continue without the excessive sniping at persons. “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein
aluminiumtrioxid Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 ..Fictional strippers entirely brought into existence by men, to increase a game's appeal for men is somewhat different from real life, living, breathing, flesh-and-blood people choosing to do that job because - Heavens forbid! - they enjoy it. I don't even... Doing it for yourself is when it's done in your bedroom alone. And even then (provided heterosexuality) it is an act inseparable from the desires and preferences of men, it is an act of presenting yourself in a way that is sexually appealing to the other gender. Being an object of desire is where the fun in it is. Yeah, object. The profession of stripper exist because there is a demand for it. It may be fun for some. But it doesn't exist because it's fun. It's purpose and function is the sexual gratification of others. Men or women. Nothing wrong there. Being a stripper is a FICTION. Get it? That's why they dress up to be CHARACTERS. Like a sexy nurse, cop, or Tarzan, whatever. I don't know what is so hard to understand about the fact that in one case, there is a person having agency under the persona, whereas in the other one, it's a literal object-in-the-dictionary-sense existing purely for gratification? Since reading comprehension seems to be a problem in a segment of the community, I also feel the need to note that I included no moral condemnation of the existence of these objects, just pointed out that there's a difference between the two. "Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says."
Meshugger Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) So, men should be ashamed for their fantasies about sexy women, but women should be celebrated for being the sexy fantasy? I never said that. Actually, never even alluded to it in any way, shape or form. What was that earlier comment about mental gymnastics? ...Fictional strippers entirely brought into existence by men, to increase a game's appeal for men is somewhat different from real life, living, breathing, flesh-and-blood people choosing to do that job because - Heavens forbid! - they enjoy it. If the difference is not shame, then what is the difference? Edited March 5, 2015 by Meshugger "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
aluminiumtrioxid Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 So, men should be ashamed for their fantasies about sexy women, but women should be celebrated for being the sexy fantasy? I never said that. Actually, never even alluded to it in any way, shape or form. What was that earlier comment about mental gymnastics? ...Fictional strippers entirely brought into existence by men, to increase a game's appeal for men is somewhat different from real life, living, breathing, flesh-and-blood people choosing to do that job because - Heavens forbid! - they enjoy it. If the difference is not shame, then what is the difference? ...People having the agency to decide whether they enjoy being an object of desire versus objects of desire existing for the sole reason of being exactly that, and nothing more? "Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says."
Malcador Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 I don't know what is so hard to understand about the fact that in one case, there is a person having agency under the persona, whereas in the other one, it's a literal object-in-the-dictionary-sense existing purely for gratification? Since reading comprehension seems to be a problem in a segment of the community, I also feel the need to note that I included no moral condemnation of the existence of these objects, just pointed out that there's a difference between the two. Really ? Your opening shot with the requisite sarcasm really comes across as otherwise, shirty. The idea of agency is pretty weird when talking about things that don't really exist, and it is odd to decide one is bad as well this women (hypothetically) wants to arouse you but this is some man putting polygons in a scripted loop to do the same. The ends are the same. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Gfted1 Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Since reading comprehension seems to be a problem in a segment of the community... "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa"
BruceVC Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 ..Fictional strippers entirely brought into existence by men, to increase a game's appeal for men is somewhat different from real life, living, breathing, flesh-and-blood people choosing to do that job because - Heavens forbid! - they enjoy it. I don't even... Doing it for yourself is when it's done in your bedroom alone. And even then (provided heterosexuality) it is an act inseparable from the desires and preferences of men, it is an act of presenting yourself in a way that is sexually appealing to the other gender. Being an object of desire is where the fun in it is. Yeah, object. The profession of stripper exist because there is a demand for it. It may be fun for some. But it doesn't exist because it's fun. It's purpose and function is the sexual gratification of others. Men or women. Nothing wrong there. Being a stripper is a FICTION. Get it? That's why they dress up to be CHARACTERS. Like a sexy nurse, cop, or Tarzan, whatever. I don't know what is so hard to understand about the fact that in one case, there is a person having agency under the persona, whereas in the other one, it's a literal object-in-the-dictionary-sense existing purely for gratification? Since reading comprehension seems to be a problem in a segment of the community, I also feel the need to note that I included no moral condemnation of the existence of these objects, just pointed out that there's a difference between the two. Guys I need to add something very relevant because I do frequent strip clubs When I go to one I end up talking and getting to know the stripers, sometimes its substantive and sometimes its just the alcohol. Sometimes they will even come out afterwards with me to a bar or club and sometimes we remain friends. The point being is what alumin is saying is true. Its a real person with real emotions and goals in life....the computer stripper is pixels....0's and 1's ..you can't possibly have the same emotional connection with that as the computer stripper is there for a one dimensional experience...sexual gratification "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
Fighter Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) I don't know what is so hard to understand about the fact that in one case, there is a person having agency under the persona, whereas in the other one, it's a literal object-in-the-dictionary-sense existing purely for gratification? Since reading comprehension seems to be a problem in a segment of the community, I also feel the need to note that I included no moral condemnation of the existence of these objects, just pointed out that there's a difference between the two. O rly? If you don't condemn either then... like... there is no difference as it pertains to the subject of discussion. Edited March 5, 2015 by Fighter
Amentep Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 And, yes, I think if you think fictional strippers are sexist but real ones are not it's hypocrisy. ...Fictional strippers entirely brought into existence by men, to increase a game's appeal for men is somewhat different from real life, living, breathing, flesh-and-blood people choosing to do that job because - Heavens forbid! - they enjoy it. You're making a rather large assumption there - not necessarily inaccurate per se, but broad enough for me to feel that a little uncomfortable with it even if at some level I think I agree with the gist of what you're saying. However I think it fair to point out that not all game developers are men, so it is possible for a game to have strippers who weren't brought into existence by men. Also if a game is trying to mirror real life, and real life has strippers and the subject matter contextually makes sense to have strippers, verisimilitude, not male gaze, would indicate the need to include strippers. And while my anecdotal evidence is limited (and naturally because of anecdotal nature not necessarily representative), the women I knew who worked in exotic dancing didn't choose to do it because they enjoyed it, but because of the money they made. I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man
Meshugger Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 So, men should be ashamed for their fantasies about sexy women, but women should be celebrated for being the sexy fantasy? I never said that. Actually, never even alluded to it in any way, shape or form. What was that earlier comment about mental gymnastics? ...Fictional strippers entirely brought into existence by men, to increase a game's appeal for men is somewhat different from real life, living, breathing, flesh-and-blood people choosing to do that job because - Heavens forbid! - they enjoy it. If the difference is not shame, then what is the difference? ...People having the agency to decide whether they enjoy being an object of desire versus objects of desire existing for the sole reason of being exactly that, and nothing more? So what if there is an agency or not. Either something is sexy or it is not. Agency in sexiness bears no meaning whether it is a painting, a moviereel, pixels or the real thing. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
aluminiumtrioxid Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Since reading comprehension seems to be a problem in a segment of the community... Don't laugh, it's real! it is odd to decide one is bad as well this women (hypothetically) wants to arouse you but this is some man putting polygons in a scripted loop to do the same I included no moral condemnation of the existence of these objects "Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says."
Fighter Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) Guys I need to add something very relevant because I do frequent strip clubs When I go to one I end up talking and getting to know the stripers, sometimes its substantive and sometimes its just the alcohol. Sometimes they will even come out afterwards with me to a bar or club and sometimes we remain friends. The point being is what alumin is saying is true. Its a real person with real emotions and goals in life....the computer stripper is pixels....0's and 1's ..you can't possibly have the same emotional connection with that as the computer stripper is there for a one dimensional experience...sexual gratification Is making an emotional connection a requirement to enjoy what they do? Edited March 5, 2015 by Fighter
Malcador Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 I included no moral condemnation of the existence of these objects Yes, but this is addressing Bruce, not you - even if your initial post whining about "men" doing something does lead me to believe you are being a tad dishonest. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
BruceVC Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) Guys I need to add something very relevant because I do frequent strip clubs When I go to one I end up talking and getting to know the stripers, sometimes its substantive and sometimes its just the alcohol. Sometimes they will even come out afterwards with me to a bar or club and sometimes we remain friends. The point being is what alumin is saying is true. Its a real person with real emotions and goals in life....the computer stripper is pixels....0's and 1's ..you can't possibly have the same emotional connection with that as the computer stripper is there for a one dimensional experience...sexual gratification Is making an emotional connection a requirement to enjoy what they do? You have asked a very important question...so the reality is for most guys its not..and it doesn't need to be. Sometimes you see guys who actually resent strippers but still go to those clubs...its a bizarre situation But for me I have simple rule, so you walk into a stripclub and the girls graviate towards you..thats there job. But they want a private dance where they make the most money and they push this which is understandable but I always refuse and buy them a drink and spend at least 30 minutes chatting to them...if there is no connection on some kind of level or they don't want to talk then its not worth IMO continuing with the engagement...but the talking is important Edited March 5, 2015 by BruceVC "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
Gfted1 Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Since reading comprehension seems to be a problem in a segment of the community... Don't laugh, it's real! Don't I know it! "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa"
Chilloutman Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 I feel really out of reality, there must be something important I am missing we got SJW guy who is going to strip clubs for good talks (yeah sure) preaching about how bad is having strippers in games then we have guy who is saying that in game stripper is here for appeal of man who at same time point out that some women likes to look on other womens as well and I have problems to understand written text? seems so, can someone explain it to me? (honestly, I am not native speaker (clearly)) 1 I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"
Recommended Posts