Barothmuk Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 "Almost entirely" seems to be an exaggeration to me.You're welcome to provide some statistics of the class make-up of the average stripper. Mind, I don't visit strip clubs, so I have no horse in this race, but I was socialized to view the "poor oppressed sex workers need to be rescued from themselves" narrative with suspicion, because carceral feminism has a long-standing tradition of denying the agency of lower-status women.Well of course. At its height feminism recognised the direct relation between class and sex and sought to liberate women from these chains. Unfortunately the feminist movement has been co-opted by neo-liberal ideology and watered down into a movement that rejects liberation from oppressive systems in favour of "expressing agency" within them. It's no surprise its the male pimps who sponsor this nonsense. (And the stuff I've read by strippers, sex workers and porn actresses has led me to believe that the majority actually prefers that line of work.(from what I've got on this laptop) 89% of women in the sex industry said they wanted to escape, but had no other means for survival And from the same study: Diagnosis of PTSD per country of prostituted respondents: • Canada: 74% • Colombia: 86% • Germany: 60% • Mexico: 54% • South Africa: 75% • Thailand: 58% • Turkey: 66% • USA: 69% • Zambia: 71% 73% of women in prostitution have been raped more than five times 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aluminiumtrioxid Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 At its height feminism recognised the direct relation between class and sex and sought to liberate women from these chains. Unfortunately the feminist movement has been co-opted by neo-liberal ideology and watered down into a movement that rejects liberation from oppressive systems in favour of "expressing agency" within them. You can't really save someone who actively rejects your attempts to do so Also, "liberation from the chains of class" is something I'm not entirely sold on. I lived in a communist state, it's really no fun. And a third concern of mine is that as a guy, I really, really, really have no place telling women how to do feminism right, or that their personal, lived experience is inherently inferior to my ideas of how things should be done. (from what I've got on this laptop) 89% of women in the sex industry said they wanted to escape, but had no other means for survival And from the same study: Diagnosis of PTSD per country of prostituted respondents: • Canada: 74% • Colombia: 86% • Germany: 60% • Mexico: 54% • South Africa: 75% • Thailand: 58% • Turkey: 66% • USA: 69% • Zambia: 71% 73% of women in prostitution have been raped more than five times Thank you for these links, I'll look into them. "Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonek Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 (edited) The friction seems to extend to devs now: https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2y0loa/drama_veteran_aaa_dev_denounces_tim_schafer/ Nice to see other developers standing up for consumers, and making a stand against Schafer's thinly veiled accusation that there are no women or ethnic minorities in gaming. His poor, childish and witless joke seems to have only served to ridicule him and his anti consumer bias. Edit: We're back on the topic of sex workers again? In my opinion if you have to pay for a womans attentions, or force yourself upon them sexually for money then you have big problems and rather than posting inane, repetitive drivel on a forum should be self examining and wondering why you are so socially stunted that you can't interact with women in a normal and respectful manner. Edited March 6, 2015 by Nonek 1 Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin. Tea for the teapot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namutree Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 73% of women in prostitution have been raped more than five times One would have to be pretty dense to think that women in the illegal sex trade industry wouldn't be the victims of rape and violence. I don't think anyone is denying that. Especially since a lot of those women are straight up slaves. 2 "Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking. I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aluminiumtrioxid Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 73% of women in prostitution have been raped more than five times One would have to be pretty dense to think that women in the illegal sex trade industry wouldn't be the victims of rape and violence. I don't think anyone is denying that. Especially since a lot of those women are straight up slaves. Well, problem is, the study also takes legal sex trade into account, and boy, it does not paint a pretty picture. Then again, sample selection seems to be somewhat... off. "In Canada, we interviewed 100 women prostituting in or near Vancouver's Downtown Eastside, one of the most economically destitute regions in North America." "The German women were from a drop-in shelter for drug addicted women." I mean, when you make a concerted effort to focus on the ****tiest microenvironments even in otherwise nice countries, it's not very surprising that the results are quite shocking. 2 "Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barothmuk Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Also, "liberation from the chains of class" is something I'm not entirely sold on. I lived in a communist state, it's really no fun.Multiple generations of living in poverty or near poverty. I'm not a fan. Out of curiosity, which state? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Hard to imagine Vancouver would host one of the most destitute regions in North America. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aluminiumtrioxid Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Multiple generations of living in poverty or near poverty. I'm not a fan. Me neither. Unregulated capitalism is capable of unleashing just as great horrors as communism. But it's not like our only options are the libertarian utopia where the free market reigns supreme, and Stalin's wet dream. Out of curiosity, which state? Hungary. Funny thing is, we were considered to be a good place by USSR standards. Or so I'm led to believe. 1 "Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Leigh Alexander leaves Gamasutra to start her own site. https://archive.today/S6zO2 Ben Kuchera, take notes. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longknife Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Today on the Isaac Rebirth Subreddit, someone wrote up an interpretation of the storyline based on statements and conclusions made by Arthur Chu. Today I learned Chu doesn't know how2art. :c And yet this was your starting point. This is what it will snowball from. This is so-called “unethical” journalism.All this example shows (which is painfully obvious) is that GG is just people getting pissy about the “SJW agenda" in game’s journalism. It is why the “opposing side” consists primarily of self-proclaimed “SJWs” and its why 90% of GG discussion is merely MRA styled hissy-fits about feminism/Anita Sarkeesian. Or that specific example was to facilitate the later example of "GamerGate could be die-hard Bayonetta fans who are mad their game got 8/10 instead of 10/10 for all I care, so long as they bring about meaningful and positive change." The point was that as long as GamerGate brings positive change, I see no reason to scoff at the people behind it and question their worth as human beings, accusing them of having too much time on their hands, valuing video games over everything else or what-have-you. "The Courier was the worst of all of them. The worst by far. When he died the first time, he must have met the devil, and then killed him." Is your mom hot? It may explain why guys were following her ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Leigh Alexander leaves Gamasutra to start her own site. https://archive.today/S6zO2 Ben Kuchera, take notes. Kuchera's already got the same kind of safe place in Polygon, no ? Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Leigh Alexander leaves Gamasutra to start her own site. https://archive.today/S6zO2 Ben Kuchera, take notes. Kuchera's already got the same kind of safe place in Polygon, no ? Interesting, so Intel started advertising again, I wonder why they felt the need to be surreptitious about it I wonder what would happen if we went back in time to that original article and said to Leigh " don't use the word gamers as it will be misunderstood " how different things will be ? "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Leigh Alexander leaves Gamasutra to start her own site. https://archive.today/S6zO2 Ben Kuchera, take notes. Kuchera's already got the same kind of safe place in Polygon, no ? I do not know for sure. But considering his persona, i wouldn't be surprised if he ends up rage-quitting one day. More about corruption: "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longknife Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Now ESPN is slandering Gamergate. Imeanrly... "The Courier was the worst of all of them. The worst by far. When he died the first time, he must have met the devil, and then killed him." Is your mom hot? It may explain why guys were following her ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PK htiw klaw eriF Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Now ESPN is slandering Gamergate. Imeanrly... Did one of us punch our wife in an elevator? "Akiva Goldsman and Alex Kurtzman run the 21st century version of MK ULTRA." - majestic "you're a damned filthy lying robot and you deserve to die and burn in hell." - Bartimaeus "Without individual thinking you can't notice the plot holes." - InsaneCommander "Just feed off the suffering of gamers." - Malcador "You are calling my taste crap." -Hurlshort "thankfully it seems like the creators like Hungary less this time around." - Sarex "Don't forget the wakame, dumbass" -Keyrock "Are you trolling or just being inadvertently nonsensical?' -Pidesco "we have already been forced to admit you are at least human" - uuuhhii "I refuse to buy from non-woke businesses" - HoonDing "feral camels are now considered a pest" - Gorth "Melkathi is known to be an overly critical grumpy person" - Melkathi "Oddly enough Sanderson was a lot more direct despite being a Mormon" - Zoraptor "I found it greatly disturbing to scroll through my cartoon's halfing selection of genitalias." - Wormerine "I love cheese despite the pain and carnage." - ShadySands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longknife Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 http://imgur.com/9k3zRJA "The Courier was the worst of all of them. The worst by far. When he died the first time, he must have met the devil, and then killed him." Is your mom hot? It may explain why guys were following her ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orogun01 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Now ESPN is slandering Gamergate. Imeanrly... Are they doing it again or is this the same poorly researched piece that got criticized by people who were even neutral but believed GG to be about harassment? I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"* *If you can't tell, it's you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longknife Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 (edited) Now ESPN is slandering Gamergate. Imeanrly... Are they doing it again or is this the same poorly researched piece that got criticized by people who were even neutral but believed GG to be about harassment? Dated three days ago: https://archive.today/mGGaN It's a prime example of lazy copy-pasted journalism. Also, I like these two. They always do good research into the politics of the game industry and back it up: Funny how Otaku will admit CameraLady does the bulk of the work and he's just the face cause she's got social anxiety or something iirc. I mean wtf it's a woman both working hard to thwart their corruption and none of us are harassing her (I'd praise her, for obvious reasons) yet that never gets mentioned. EDIT: Man I'm on a fukn ROLL with my attentive-ness today. Meshugger already linked it. xD My bad, didn't see the thumbnail for it til after I'd linked it and had only scrolled past his link before, so didn't realize they were one in the same. Edited March 7, 2015 by Longknife "The Courier was the worst of all of them. The worst by far. When he died the first time, he must have met the devil, and then killed him." Is your mom hot? It may explain why guys were following her ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Kluwe's trolling is rather bland, shame it will be so effective. I forget why most of these people are significant. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longknife Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Kluwe's trolling is rather bland, shame it will be so effective. I forget why most of these people are significant. Honestly a lot of it all is just drama. Like I wish Sargon of Akkad and CameraLady got more attention simply for the fact that they do all their research themselves and make it clear how they did it, and they've yet to make promises they don't keep. A lot of the other big names from both sides are just celebrities more or less, and don't actually do a whole lot. "The Courier was the worst of all of them. The worst by far. When he died the first time, he must have met the devil, and then killed him." Is your mom hot? It may explain why guys were following her ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 (edited) Don't worry about Chris, he's mostly occupied being Milo's punching bag. //Edit: CameraLady has some sorts of speech impendiment IIRC and therefore mr. Otaku voices her videos. Edited March 7, 2015 by Meshugger "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PK htiw klaw eriF Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 So guys, what do you think about Kern bringing back the League for Gamers? https://m.facebook.com/leagueforgamers?refsrc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FKotakuInAction%2Fcomments%2F2y8zhz%2Fgoal_mark_kern_bringing_back_the_league_for%2F&_rdr https://twitter.com/League4Gamers http://youtu.be/Y8ZhznFfJZY Also, the IGDA appears to be anti-unionization. https://archive.today/5MzVI "Akiva Goldsman and Alex Kurtzman run the 21st century version of MK ULTRA." - majestic "you're a damned filthy lying robot and you deserve to die and burn in hell." - Bartimaeus "Without individual thinking you can't notice the plot holes." - InsaneCommander "Just feed off the suffering of gamers." - Malcador "You are calling my taste crap." -Hurlshort "thankfully it seems like the creators like Hungary less this time around." - Sarex "Don't forget the wakame, dumbass" -Keyrock "Are you trolling or just being inadvertently nonsensical?' -Pidesco "we have already been forced to admit you are at least human" - uuuhhii "I refuse to buy from non-woke businesses" - HoonDing "feral camels are now considered a pest" - Gorth "Melkathi is known to be an overly critical grumpy person" - Melkathi "Oddly enough Sanderson was a lot more direct despite being a Mormon" - Zoraptor "I found it greatly disturbing to scroll through my cartoon's halfing selection of genitalias." - Wormerine "I love cheese despite the pain and carnage." - ShadySands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aluminiumtrioxid Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Like I wish Sargon of Akkad and CameraLady got more attention simply for the fact that they do all their research themselves and make it clear how they did it, and they've yet to make promises they don't keep. ...Is this the same Sargon of Akkad who managed to simultaneously fail at statistics and interpreting basic research in his "why gamers don't need diversity" video, or some different clown? "Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orogun01 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Like I wish Sargon of Akkad and CameraLady got more attention simply for the fact that they do all their research themselves and make it clear how they did it, and they've yet to make promises they don't keep. ...Is this the same Sargon of Akkad who managed to simultaneously fail at statistics and interpreting basic research in his "why gamers don't need diversity" video, or some different clown? I haven't seen the video, why does he fail? I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"* *If you can't tell, it's you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aluminiumtrioxid Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 (edited) Like I wish Sargon of Akkad and CameraLady got more attention simply for the fact that they do all their research themselves and make it clear how they did it, and they've yet to make promises they don't keep. ...Is this the same Sargon of Akkad who managed to simultaneously fail at statistics and interpreting basic research in his "why gamers don't need diversity" video, or some different clown? I haven't seen the video, why does he fail? He basically takes a research paper with a sample size of 27 (that would give you a confidence level of around 40, by the way, which, I note, is below the odds of a coin toss) with very specific questions about identification with characters in games, and treats it as ultimate, objective proof that the feminists are lying and gamers really don't need diverse characters, because they can identify with their on-screen avatar just fine. (Simultaneously proving that he also doesn't understand why feminists think games need more diverse characters, but that's beside the point.) Edit: oh, then he also charmingly accuses the person who made this paper with "trying to downplay this finding because it doesn't fit the narrative". Edited March 7, 2015 by aluminiumtrioxid "Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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