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Danish Terror Attack


BruceVC

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http://www.wsj.com/articles/danish-police-kill-suspect-in-copenhagen-shootings-1423989155

 

This type of event is sadly not  uncommon, last weekend Copenhagen was subjected to  terror attacks by a lone gunmen with ideological sympathies to ISIS

 

 

The gunman was killed but this incident raises an interesting question around how Denmark has  been dealing with Islamic extremism and how they treat Danish fighters who leave Denmark to join groups like ISIS

 

http://www.newsweek.com/2015/01/23/how-denmark-learnt-its-own-charlie-hebdo-moment-299065.html

 

Basically after the infamous Danish Cartoons of 2005 the Danes started a program of real integration for the Muslim community, probably more effective than any other European country. They even provide social workers and psychologists for returning Jihadists, very different to most other countries where citizens who leave to join terrorists organisations are monitored and are considered real threats to their home country

 

Up to now Denmark has avoided homegrown terrorists attacking their own country but this latest incident has possibly changed this. Because the questions now I imagine being asked is "does being understanding and offering the carrot really work when addressing extremism"?

 

So what do you think? Do the Danes with their methodology of reconciliation and integration provide the best system to reduce extremism? Or are they too soft and the French and British have a better way of dealing with internal terror threats where fighters who come back are considered real threats

 

Maybe this was a one off incident in Denmark and the Danes need to stay the course? All opinions welcome and of course views from our Danish members especially welcome :)

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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title of the thread made us think o' exploding pastries.

 

HA! Good Fun!

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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You're slacking Bruce. I expect threads from you regarding the latest tragedies attributed in the mainstream media to alleged terrorists within 24 hours of them happening. Hurl had to do your quarterly thread regarding the plight of women in the world too. What gives?

 

Better late than never I suppose though. I don't know what this forum would do without you.

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Counsel will not be warned a third time being hilarious.  OH MY GOD I'M DYING

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/chilean-newspaper-pays-damages-exploding-pastry-recipe-injured-13-article-1.997044

 

oh sure, today it's churros, but tomorrow it could be jelly-filled doughnuts or danish.  take a bite o' a hostess apple pie and next thing you know, your head is in another state. laugh it off then.

 

no doubt the conspiracy experts got a theory.

 

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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You're slacking Bruce. I expect threads from you regarding the latest tragedies attributed in the mainstream media to alleged terrorists within 24 hours of them happening. Hurl had to do your quarterly thread regarding the plight of women in the world too. What gives?

 

Better late than never I suppose though. I don't know what this forum would do without you.

Thanks Vals, I appreciate your sincere support around my posts happy0203.gif

 

But this Danish attack is actually relevant because it leads to how effective integration is or isn't. In other words you can integrate people as much as possible but that still doesn't guarantee you won't face an attack, so now the Europeans are grappling with how they can reduce internal  attacks from extremists and what is the best approach to this?

 

Is heavy handedness the right way? Or the way the Danes have been dealing with it. That Newsweek link is particularly pertinent because it shows us just how far the Danes have gone to ensure people don't feel marginalized

 

These are questions we all should be asking ourselves, how do we make immigrants feel truly  part of a country and culture of a country . The objective being  " if they feel integrated  they wouldn't join a jihad and they definitely wouldn't attack the country that gave them a home " ?

Edited by BruceVC

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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It was the same old. The target was the swedish satirical artist Lars Vilks, again, and the perpetrator was a muslim failure-man, again. Allegedly he was dealing drug and doing petty crime until he got into prison, where he was later radicalised. It's the same song, when failing in everything, you can always out-muslim your fellow muslims by killing kuffars; people who ridicule the prophet and the jews. And why shouldn't he? honor was restored among his peers, especially in the neighbourhood where he grew up in. The guy was a hero for them because he had the balls to pull off what his friends and extended acquaintances dared not to.

 

All while the media discusses on how to maintain social cohesion, experts are discussing about polite self-censorship under the disguise of "provocation might be inheritly damaging", where artist maybe should approach difficult matters politely and jews might be better off if they didn't boast around in their kippahs. While the singular incident only ended up with 2 people dead, i do not think it will be the last. Either Europe will become more tolerant, where it practically means that it will appease the muslim community and add further restrictions to free speech in the name of "personal dignity", or it will spiral further down in violence and we will have a quite bloody future for our children.

 

It's quite worrying that it is the second and third generation muslims that are doing this, meaning that the level radicalism increases eventhough we have now families that are by all means considered integrated into society. That's why i am very pessimistic about the third option of full integration, meaning that the current muslim cultural identity will die out and a new one born which pretty much just has different holidays and odder looking temples compared to the one in the host country.

"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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You're slacking Bruce. I expect threads from you regarding the latest tragedies attributed in the mainstream media to alleged terrorists within 24 hours of them happening. Hurl had to do your quarterly thread regarding the plight of women in the world too. What gives?

 

Better late than never I suppose though. I don't know what this forum would do without you.

Thanks Vals, I appreciate your sincere support around my posts happy0203.gif

 

But this Danish attack is actually relevant because it leads to how effective integration is or isn't. In other words you can integrate people as much as possible but that still doesn't guarantee you won't face an attack, so now the Europeans are grappling with how they can reduce internal  attacks from extremists and what is the best approach to this?

 

Is heavy handedness the right way? Or the way the Danes have been dealing with it. That Newsweek link is particularly pertinent because it shows us just how far the Danes have gone to ensure people don't feel marginalized

 

These are questions we all should be asking ourselves, how do we make immigrants feel truly  part of a country and culture of a country . The objective being  " if they feel integrated  they wouldn't join a jihad and they definitely wouldn't attack the country that gave them a home " ?

 

 

The now dead person who allegedly perpetrated the attacks was born in Denmark. He was not an immigrant.

 

It generally takes more than a generation to integrate a group of people into a culture. Many generations before full integration is not uncommon.

 

There is absolutely nothing that can be done to prevent the occasional lone nut (if indeed that's what this even was) from running around killing people. If some whackoloon somewhere decides he/she wants to go kill a few people and is willing to die in the process, that whackoloon is likely to succeed in his task (especially if the victims are unarmed). Fortunately, there's not many such people out there. As common of an occurrence as this all seems to be, since the mainstream media shouts from the all the rooftops every time it happens anywhere in the western world (and sometimes in the other parts of the world too), its' actually extremely rare when we factor it in a per capita basis.

 

Also, while I didn't hear audio of the attack at the Synagogue I did listen to audio from the attack on the conference. There was no shouting of 'Allahu Akbar' at the conference. Whoever did the shooting there said nothing as they opened fire. (One of the articles you link alleges such shouting occurred).

 

If the person who authorities said perpetrated the attacks acted alone as they say, my first question is 'What psychotropics was he on, if any?'. I'm not sure we'll get an answer to that one though.

Edited by Valsuelm
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It was the same old. The target was the swedish satirical artist Lars Vilks, again, and the perpetrator was a muslim failure-man, again. Allegedly he was dealing drug and doing petty crime until he got into prison, where he was later radicalised. It's the same song, when failing in everything, you can always out-muslim your fellow muslims by killing kuffars; people who ridicule the prophet and the jews. And why shouldn't he? honor was restored among his peers, especially in the neighbourhood where he grew up in. The guy was a hero for them because he had the balls to pull off what his friends and extended acquaintances dared not to.

 

All while the media discusses on how to maintain social cohesion, experts are discussing about polite self-censorship under the disguise of "provocation might be inheritly damaging", where artist maybe should approach difficult matters politely and jews might be better off if they didn't boast around in their kippahs. While the singular incident only ended up with 2 people dead, i do not think it will be the last. Either Europe will become more tolerant, where it practically means that it will appease the muslim community and add further restrictions to free speech in the name of "personal dignity", or it will spiral further down in violence and we will have a quite bloody future for our children.

 

It's quite worrying that it is the second and third generation muslims that are doing this, meaning that the level radicalism increases eventhough we have now families that are by all means considered integrated into society. That's why i am very pessimistic about the third option of full integration, meaning that the current muslim cultural identity will die out and a new one born which pretty much just has different holidays and odder looking temples compared to the one in the host country.

 

This is interesting personal  insight from someone who lives in the region
 
So do you think the Danish social model of real attempts at  integration and understanding  is the way to go, or do you feel if someone leaves a country to fight Jihad they  then forfeit there European citizenship and if they return they could be arrrested and or refused entry?
 
I feel that if you choose to join  groups like ISIS then you need to realize you can't just come home when convenient. So  I'm not sure I agree with the Danish approach which is very conciliatory and still attempts to bring people who have been possibly radicalised back into Danish culture?

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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It was the same old. The target was the swedish satirical artist Lars Vilks, again, and the perpetrator was a muslim failure-man, again. Allegedly he was dealing drug and doing petty crime until he got into prison, where he was later radicalised. It's the same song, when failing in everything, you can always out-muslim your fellow muslims by killing kuffars; people who ridicule the prophet and the jews. And why shouldn't he? honor was restored among his peers, especially in the neighbourhood where he grew up in. The guy was a hero for them because he had the balls to pull off what his friends and extended acquaintances dared not to.

 

All while the media discusses on how to maintain social cohesion, experts are discussing about polite self-censorship under the disguise of "provocation might be inheritly damaging", where artist maybe should approach difficult matters politely and jews might be better off if they didn't boast around in their kippahs. While the singular incident only ended up with 2 people dead, i do not think it will be the last. Either Europe will become more tolerant, where it practically means that it will appease the muslim community and add further restrictions to free speech in the name of "personal dignity", or it will spiral further down in violence and we will have a quite bloody future for our children.

 

It's quite worrying that it is the second and third generation muslims that are doing this, meaning that the level radicalism increases eventhough we have now families that are by all means considered integrated into society. That's why i am very pessimistic about the third option of full integration, meaning that the current muslim cultural identity will die out and a new one born which pretty much just has different holidays and odder looking temples compared to the one in the host country.

 

This is interesting personal  insight from someone who lives in the region
 
So do you think the Danish social model of real attempts at  integration and understanding  is the way to go, or do you feel if someone leaves a country to fight Jihad they  then forfeit there European citizenship and if they return they could be arrrested and or refused entry?
 
I feel that if you choose to join  groups like ISIS then you need to realize you can't just come home when convenient. So  I'm not sure I agree with the Danish approach which is very conciliatory and still attempts to bring people who have been possibly radicalised back into Danish culture?

 

 

None of this has anything to do with the attacks that recently occurred in Denmark.

 

The guy the authorities said did the act was born in Denmark. He never went overseas to fight for ISIS or anyone else.

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It was the same old. The target was the swedish satirical artist Lars Vilks, again, and the perpetrator was a muslim failure-man, again. Allegedly he was dealing drug and doing petty crime until he got into prison, where he was later radicalised. It's the same song, when failing in everything, you can always out-muslim your fellow muslims by killing kuffars; people who ridicule the prophet and the jews. And why shouldn't he? honor was restored among his peers, especially in the neighbourhood where he grew up in. The guy was a hero for them because he had the balls to pull off what his friends and extended acquaintances dared not to.

 

All while the media discusses on how to maintain social cohesion, experts are discussing about polite self-censorship under the disguise of "provocation might be inheritly damaging", where artist maybe should approach difficult matters politely and jews might be better off if they didn't boast around in their kippahs. While the singular incident only ended up with 2 people dead, i do not think it will be the last. Either Europe will become more tolerant, where it practically means that it will appease the muslim community and add further restrictions to free speech in the name of "personal dignity", or it will spiral further down in violence and we will have a quite bloody future for our children.

 

It's quite worrying that it is the second and third generation muslims that are doing this, meaning that the level radicalism increases eventhough we have now families that are by all means considered integrated into society. That's why i am very pessimistic about the third option of full integration, meaning that the current muslim cultural identity will die out and a new one born which pretty much just has different holidays and odder looking temples compared to the one in the host country.

 

This is interesting personal  insight from someone who lives in the region
 
So do you think the Danish social model of real attempts at  integration and understanding  is the way to go, or do you feel if someone leaves a country to fight Jihad they  then forfeit there European citizenship and if they return they could be arrrested and or refused entry?
 
I feel that if you choose to join  groups like ISIS then you need to realize you can't just come home when convenient. So  I'm not sure I agree with the Danish approach which is very conciliatory and still attempts to bring people who have been possibly radicalised back into Danish culture?

 

 

As other have already said, this guy has never been in Syria nor has he been fighting alongside ISIS. Just a local drug dealer turned nutso. What i find appaling is the local support he gets from his actions. Sounds like breeding ground for masochists, sociopaths and evil people in general. As long as they are around as a positive feedback loop, then terrorist attacks are here to stay as a cultural phenomenon.

Edited by Meshugger

"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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Are you saying integration isn't successful if one dude goes out and kills people? 

 

No, I am really asking if the Danish method of integration works? If the objective is to prevent locals from being radicalised what methodology is best? I'm not saying the Danes are  wrong because there is a valid point that this was a lone gunmen and this doesn't represent any possible terrorist attacks that Denmark may incur

 

But yet if you read Meshuggers posts you will see that this gunman has received some widespread support from  some of the Muslim community  in Denmark,  so it begs the question "has the Danish approach really been effective?" 

 

If you look at the French situation there attempts of integration with the Algerian community haven't been effective, you have these ghettos of Algerians who are disillusioned and feel outside French society. But that didn't appear to be the situation in Denmark. Yet you had this incident in Copenhagen, which could be attributed as an act of criminality and not ideology, yet you still see support for his actions? 

 

I have posted the link below so you can familiarize yourself, if you haven't already, with what I mean by the " Danish approach to homegrown  extremism". Its a unique concept  as far as I know  

 

http://www.newsweek.com/2015/01/23/how-denmark-learnt-its-own-charlie-hebdo-moment-299065.html

Edited by BruceVC

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Nice theories! :grin:

 

A few facts. The guy, despite having a "middle eastern" name, was born and raised in Denmark. He had a history of violence and gang related crime. In fact, he had only just come out of jail (serving a few years for a stabbing incident). If anything, he should have been institutionalised a long time ago for mental issues. He was really just a ticking bomb looking for an excuse to explode in violence. It just so happened that recent events in Paris most likely inspired him, getting him killed here and now instead later in gang related shoot outs.

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“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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It was the same old. The target was the swedish satirical artist Lars Vilks, again, and the perpetrator was a muslim failure-man, again. Allegedly he was dealing drug and doing petty crime until he got into prison, where he was later radicalised. It's the same song, when failing in everything, you can always out-muslim your fellow muslims by killing kuffars; people who ridicule the prophet and the jews. And why shouldn't he? honor was restored among his peers, especially in the neighbourhood where he grew up in. The guy was a hero for them because he had the balls to pull off what his friends and extended acquaintances dared not to.

 

All while the media discusses on how to maintain social cohesion, experts are discussing about polite self-censorship under the disguise of "provocation might be inheritly damaging", where artist maybe should approach difficult matters politely and jews might be better off if they didn't boast around in their kippahs. While the singular incident only ended up with 2 people dead, i do not think it will be the last. Either Europe will become more tolerant, where it practically means that it will appease the muslim community and add further restrictions to free speech in the name of "personal dignity", or it will spiral further down in violence and we will have a quite bloody future for our children.

 

It's quite worrying that it is the second and third generation muslims that are doing this, meaning that the level radicalism increases eventhough we have now families that are by all means considered integrated into society. That's why i am very pessimistic about the third option of full integration, meaning that the current muslim cultural identity will die out and a new one born which pretty much just has different holidays and odder looking temples compared to the one in the host country.

 

This is interesting personal  insight from someone who lives in the region
 
So do you think the Danish social model of real attempts at  integration and understanding  is the way to go, or do you feel if someone leaves a country to fight Jihad they  then forfeit there European citizenship and if they return they could be arrrested and or refused entry?
 
I feel that if you choose to join  groups like ISIS then you need to realize you can't just come home when convenient. So  I'm not sure I agree with the Danish approach which is very conciliatory and still attempts to bring people who have been possibly radicalised back into Danish culture?

 

 

None of this has anything to do with the attacks that recently occurred in Denmark.

 

The guy the authorities said did the act was born in Denmark. He never went overseas to fight for ISIS or anyone else.

 

 

 

 

 

It was the same old. The target was the swedish satirical artist Lars Vilks, again, and the perpetrator was a muslim failure-man, again. Allegedly he was dealing drug and doing petty crime until he got into prison, where he was later radicalised. It's the same song, when failing in everything, you can always out-muslim your fellow muslims by killing kuffars; people who ridicule the prophet and the jews. And why shouldn't he? honor was restored among his peers, especially in the neighbourhood where he grew up in. The guy was a hero for them because he had the balls to pull off what his friends and extended acquaintances dared not to.

 

All while the media discusses on how to maintain social cohesion, experts are discussing about polite self-censorship under the disguise of "provocation might be inheritly damaging", where artist maybe should approach difficult matters politely and jews might be better off if they didn't boast around in their kippahs. While the singular incident only ended up with 2 people dead, i do not think it will be the last. Either Europe will become more tolerant, where it practically means that it will appease the muslim community and add further restrictions to free speech in the name of "personal dignity", or it will spiral further down in violence and we will have a quite bloody future for our children.

 

It's quite worrying that it is the second and third generation muslims that are doing this, meaning that the level radicalism increases eventhough we have now families that are by all means considered integrated into society. That's why i am very pessimistic about the third option of full integration, meaning that the current muslim cultural identity will die out and a new one born which pretty much just has different holidays and odder looking temples compared to the one in the host country.

 

This is interesting personal  insight from someone who lives in the region
 
So do you think the Danish social model of real attempts at  integration and understanding  is the way to go, or do you feel if someone leaves a country to fight Jihad they  then forfeit there European citizenship and if they return they could be arrrested and or refused entry?
 
I feel that if you choose to join  groups like ISIS then you need to realize you can't just come home when convenient. So  I'm not sure I agree with the Danish approach which is very conciliatory and still attempts to bring people who have been possibly radicalised back into Danish culture?

 

 

As other have already said, this guy has never been in Syria nor has he been fighting alongside ISIS. Just a local drug dealer turned nutso. What i find appaling is the local support he gets from his actions. Sounds like breeding ground for masochists, sociopaths and evil people in general. As long as they are around as a positive feedback loop, then terrorist attacks are here to stay as a cultural phenomenon.

 

 

I am not explaining myself properly, I know this gunmen didn't fight for ISIS. This is just a talking point that highlights a broader issue around integration that European countries are grappling with

 

The Danes for example believe in assimilating people back to Danish culture who return from Jihad, do you guys think this is an effective strategy?

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Nice theories! :grin:

 

A few facts. The guy, despite having a "middle eastern" name, was born and raised in Denmark. He had a history of violence and gang related crime. In fact, he had only just come out of jail (serving a few years for a stabbing incident). If anything, he should have been institutionalised a long time ago for mental issues. He was really just a ticking bomb looking for an excuse to explode in violence. It just so happened that recent events in Paris most likely inspired him, getting him killed here and now instead later in gang related shoot outs.

This may be the exact truth, this was an incident of criminality and has nothing to do with ideology. Despite the fact he targeted members of the Jewish community this could just be  how he was influenced

 

What worries me is the support he still seems to have received from some sectors of community? How do you explain that ?

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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What worries me is the support he still seems to have received from some sectors of community? How do you explain that ?

Because no matter how loathsome you and I may find an individual, those individuals sometimes still have a social network. Relatives, gang members, fellow inmates etc. I've got no illusions about there not being sympathisers who sees his actions as an outlet of their own anger and frustrations at the injustice of life. Some turn to gangs, some turn to hooliganism, some turn to drugs, and yes, some turn to ideological extremism. Yes, even a small place like Denmark has it's share of people who looks for something to blame for their misery, whether that misery is inflicted or self inflicted.

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“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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What worries me is the support he still seems to have received from some sectors of community? How do you explain that ?

Because no matter how loathsome you and I may find an individual, those individuals sometimes still have a social network. Relatives, gang members, fellow inmates etc. I've got no illusions about there not being sympathisers who sees his actions as an outlet of their own anger and frustrations at the injustice of life. Some turn to gangs, some turn to hooliganism, some turn to drugs, and yes, some turn to ideological extremism. Yes, even a small place like Denmark has it's share of people who looks for something to blame for their misery, whether that misery is inflicted or self inflicted.

 

 

Fair enough. So basically you are saying there will always be instances of this type of violence and there is no reason for the Danish government to rethink their policies around integration and dealing with homegrown extremism? In others words lets not " throw the baby out with the bath water "  

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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What worries me is the support he still seems to have received from some sectors of community? How do you explain that ?

 

 

Fairly easily. Such things are fairly common in society. Look around this here forum and you'll find some examples. ie: In the various gun/police violence threads: Man gets killed by police for doing something someone thinks is dumb or bad results in a 'good riddance to bad rubbish!!!' from some.

 

There's a general lack of compassion and appreciation of the value of human life all over the place. It certainly doesn't help when those who some consider our leaders have the same kind of callous attitude:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_x04Gn3-2g

 

It's one of the most heinous aspects of the modern world. People are so amazingly ignorant and caught up in the us vs them mentality (where 'us' is some group they self identify with and 'them' is a group they perceive to be their enemy), they totally ignore all of their own humanity and the humanity of the people they cheer for the demise of. And whether or not the persons they are cheering the demise of actually self identifiy with the group that those cheering think they are apart of doesn't really matter. ie: The innocent bystanders in any given attack are brushed off as if they didn't exist or are presumed to be guilty by association or just their local approximation.

 

Now, I realize some are going to possibly be aghast that I compared the demise of Gaddafi or some perceived thug at the hands of what you think is legitimate law enforcement to the demise of some artist (or people around him), and some probable innocents at a Synagogue. The truth is, that a sentiment of glee over the demise of any of these people comes from the same shallow evil place that each human has. The average person who celebrated Gaddafi getting killed is no better than the average person who celebrated the people in the Synagogue getting killed, and they are both likely equally as ignorant in their callous sentiments. Each will view the demised as their enemy, so it's not only ok in their mind that the person suffered as they did, it's good.

 

The good news is that not everyone thinks this way. The bad news is, a lot of people do. All over the place. And the mainstream media generally fosters it.

Edited by Valsuelm
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Fair enough. So basically you are saying there will always be instances of this type of violence and there is no reason for the Danish government to rethink their policies around integration and dealing with homegrown extremism? In others words lets not " throw the baby out with the bath water "

Not quite, I say this specific case should not be the reason (the rest is something for those seriously into that kind of research to work out, thats way beyond a casual observer like me) :)

“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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What worries me is the support he still seems to have received from some sectors of community? How do you explain that ?

Because no matter how loathsome you and I may find an individual, those individuals sometimes still have a social network. Relatives, gang members, fellow inmates etc. I've got no illusions about there not being sympathisers who sees his actions as an outlet of their own anger and frustrations at the injustice of life. Some turn to gangs, some turn to hooliganism, some turn to drugs, and yes, some turn to ideological extremism. Yes, even a small place like Denmark has it's share of people who looks for something to blame for their misery, whether that misery is inflicted or self inflicted.

 

 

http://www.clarionproject.org/analysis/majority-europes-muslims-favor-sharia-over-democracy

 

Not entirely linked, but it shows how two different societies are emerging, and it will certainly not do anything to help stopping potential loonies.

"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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The real tragedy is of course that this is being used as an excuse to curtail civic rights yet again.. I mean, it's one guy going nuts - I would hardly call it terror. the only positive being that the word is slowly loosing it's scare-factor.

 

Now we have officers on the streets with frikkin mp5s, I had to pass 3 police officers with automatic weapons to get to the library (next to the synagogue) that's worries me a lot more.

 

 

As for integration - I feel our approach is valid, but the problem is we are trying to integrate people socio-culturally instead of nationalistic and yet the tools we use are nationalistic - and that in general seems to create a lot of tension. Whereas America and Canada, objectively, seem to be better at integrating newcomers, who actively work their butts off to become parts of society - while still somewhat keep their own culture. Of course nationalistic integration creates it's own sets of problems.. So which is better in the long run.. no idea.

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Fortune favors the bald.

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The real tragedy is of course that this is being used as an excuse to curtail civic rights yet again.. I mean, it's one guy going nuts - I would hardly call it terror. the only positive being that the word is slowly loosing it's scare-factor.

 

Now we have officers on the streets with frikkin mp5s, I had to pass 3 police officers with automatic weapons to get to the library (next to the synagogue) that's worries me a lot more.

 

 

As for integration - I feel our approach is valid, but the problem is we are trying to integrate people socio-culturally instead of nationalistic and yet the tools we use are nationalistic - and that in general seems to create a lot of tension. Whereas America and Canada, objectively, seem to be better at integrating newcomers, who actively work their butts off to become parts of society - while still somewhat keep their own culture. Of course nationalistic integration creates it's own sets of problems.. So which is better in the long run.. no idea.

 

You have raised some good points, IMO America has achieved better integration amongst its Muslim communities than many European countries

 

Now that doesn't mean the USA isn't a victim of homegrown terrorism, we know they are. Its just that you don't seem to have these ghettos of people who are completely disillusioned with there country they now call home. And you may be right, in the USA it could be because people immigrating to the USA  work harder to become citizens...so there is more value to that citizenship.

 

So once again thats an interesting point

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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And why shouldn't he? honor was restored among his peers, especially in the neighbourhood where he grew up in. The guy was a hero for them because he had the balls to pull off what his friends and extended acquaintances dared not to.

I live in a majority Muslim area, people I've heard talk about it or talked about it with disapproved heavily of his actions. I do live in one of the better Muslim neighborhoods though. Pretty sure I also read on the front page of a newspaper that one of his relatives thought he was about to do something horrible, and thus likely disapproves of his actions, this however, I cannot at all guarantee.

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What worries me is the support he still seems to have received from some sectors of community? How do you explain that ?

 

 

 

 

There's a general lack of compassion and appreciation of the value of human life all over the place. It certainly doesn't help when those who some consider our leaders have the same kind of callous attitude:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_x04Gn3-2g

 

 

Wow wtf this is awful. When did Hilary turn into such a scumbag?

"The Courier was the worst of all of them. The worst by far. When he died the first time, he must have met the devil, and then killed him."

 

 

Is your mom hot? It may explain why guys were following her ?

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