Ukraine Discussion

[obyknven]

Western military help to Kievan Junta.

 

300 Marder APC through Bulgaria. 

 

Equipment for Western sniper rifles ( through Bulgaria again )

 

[docs removed because they contained e-mails, phone numbers and adresses]

Edited June 6, 2015 by TrueNeutral

[BruceVC]

Western military help to Kievan Junta.

 

300 Marder APC through Bulgaria. 

 

Equipment for Western sniper rifles ( through Bulgaria again )

 

 

 

 

 

 

Links or it didn't happen 

Edited June 6, 2015 by BruceVC

[kgambit]

 

Links or it didn't happen 

 

 

 

Anyone can download the DSP-5 forms on line from this link:

 

https://www.pmddtc.state.gov/licensing/forms.html

 

Interesting that  JFK airport is now in Portland, Oregon - you would think even Fox News would have picked up on that one.  And that page 5 which actually lists the items being shipped is totally blank.

 

Gotta try harder than that Oby. 

Edited June 6, 2015 by kgambit

[Walsingham]

One second: is oby saying that the supply of military vehicles into Ukraine would be some sort of provocative action?

 

Tu quoque (thanks for that term, btw Numbers) aside, Hm Gov donated a bunch of pos Saxons a while back, didn't we?

[Zoraptor]

Yep, not sure about donated though, I think the Ukrainians may have actually paid for them. I think the old London buses would have been about as useful, they're nearly as good as a saxon at stopping bullets and offroading but more reliable, lighter and cheaper to maintain.

[obyknven]

Russian society cause butthurt to ZOG NWO... again

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/12/world/europe/russian-groups-crowdfund-the-war-in-ukraine.html?partner=socialflow&smid=tw-nytimes&_r=2

 

NATO troops entered into Ukrainian territory.

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150610/1023165217.html

https://twitter.com/AlexanderNNero/status/608380046143852544/photo/1

 

 

 

The Pope presented Putin with an angel-peacemaker medal

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3118845/When-Putin-met-Pope-Russian-President-secures-private-audience-Holiness-trip-Vatican.html

 

After the meeting, Pope Francis gave Putin a medal with the image of an angel-peacemaker. Presenting a gift to the Russian President, the pontiff said: "This medal, which was created by the artist of the last century, depicts an angel who brings peace and justice, and solidarity, and protects. As well as this text, in which there is a reflection on the fact that the gospel brings us light and joy, and there are geopolitical thoughts about us and about our life",

 

 

 

 

[BruceVC]

Yes there is a valid strategy  that some Western groups and countries are trying and that I think is worth pursing is that to get Putin to change his militant and jingoistic views is to keep including Russia  in world events so they don't feel isolated. We don't want Russia to develop an even further " lager mentality "  and think that the West is out to get them 

[cirdanx]

Yes there is a valid strategy  that some Western groups and countries are trying and that I think is worth pursing is that to get Putin to change his militant and jingoistic views is to keep including Russia  in world events so they don't feel isolated. We don't want Russia to develop an even further " lager mentality "  and think that the West is out to get them 

 

1. Yes i believe you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

2. You are part of the BRICS in South Africa, so it is in YOUR interest, or should be, that russia stays strong. Because THEY will be your basis of wealth, not america or europe who are happy to plunder everything you still have left.

 

3. We have seen the western strategy, its coups, warfare and nothing more...the moment a new player comes up like russia or china, they fear for their wealth, well it´s a wealth on debt anyway, which they hold..oh the irony.

 

4. Russia is in no way isolated. Washington tried, failed and can now watch as Russia turns to rest of the world, who are very happy to deal with them, sadly as an european that also effects us. and quit frankly, i would like the EU to go to hell so we can repair our relations with russia again, because everyone benefits from it here..except america..

 

5. there is nothing agressive nor militant about russia, so far they have only reactet and never acted except crimea which goes hand in hand on what the people wanted there and thanks to referendum visited by over 70 international observes was legal and conform with the UN charta, no matter what Whasington or their vassals says. (who never gave a crap about internatiol law anyway and stole land)

 

Blah

[BruceVC]

 

Yes there is a valid strategy  that some Western groups and countries are trying and that I think is worth pursing is that to get Putin to change his militant and jingoistic views is to keep including Russia  in world events so they don't feel isolated. We don't want Russia to develop an even further " lager mentality "  and think that the West is out to get them 

 

1. Yes i believe you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

2. You are part of the BRICS in South Africa, so it is in YOUR interest, or should be, that russia stays strong. Because THEY will be your basis of wealth, not america or europe who are happy to plunder everything you still have left.

 

3. We have seen the western strategy, its coups, warfare and nothing more...the moment a new player comes up like russia or china, they fear for their wealth, well it´s a wealth on debt anyway, which they hold..oh the irony.

 

4. Russia is in no way isolated. Washington tried, failed and can now watch as Russia turns to rest of the world, who are very happy to deal with them, sadly as an european that also effects us. and quit frankly, i would like the EU to go to hell so we can repair our relations with russia again, because everyone benefits from it here..except america..

 

5. there is nothing agressive nor militant about russia, so far they have only reactet and never acted except crimea which goes hand in hand on what the people wanted there and thanks to referendum visited by over 70 international observes was legal and conform with the UN charta, no matter what Whasington or their vassals says. (who never gave a crap about internatiol law anyway and stole land)

 

Blah

 

In response, I like you cirdanx. You are always so anti-Western...but its like you learnt  it in some " Putin Propaganda Academy " ...its really easy to dispute. But I do appreciate the fact you are prepared to spend time debating these points so nice one    

 

1. That's subjective of course 

2. BRICS is flawed and has serious imbalances. It has benefited South Africa very little except for making our current Government sycophants of China and creating a mistaken view of how to grow the economy

3. No Western culture is about a global, prosperous and secure world where the principles of Democracy and reasonable free markets are upheld. And this is a good objective as Western countries offer there citizens the best quality of life and have the happiest citizens 

4.No one  wants to isolate Russia, they are an important player in the global world..but Putin cannot believe he can get away with just annexing parts of countries. He went too far. Why do you dislike the EU, you not very patriotic? I thought the Germans looked down on the Russian...remember Hitler 

5. Utterly wrong...really misinformed view. They illegally annexed Crimea and are actively involved militarily in Eastern Ukraine 

[cirdanx]

In response, I like you cirdanx. You are always so anti-Western...but its like you learnt  it in some " Putin Propaganda Academy " ...its really easy to dispute. But I do appreciate the fact you are prepared to spend time debating these points so nice one    

 

1. That's subjective of course 

2. BRICS is flawed and has serious imbalances. It has benefited South Africa very little except for making our current Government sycophants of China and creating a mistaken view of how to grow the economy

3. No Western culture is about a global, prosperous and secure world where the principles of Democracy and reasonable free markets are upheld. And this is a good objective as Western countries offer there citizens the best quality of life and have the happiest citizens 

4.No one  wants to isolate Russia, they are an important player in the global world..but Putin cannot believe he can get away with just annexing parts of countries. He went too far. Why do you dislike the EU, you not very patriotic? I thought the Germans looked down on the Russian...remember Hitler 

5. Utterly wrong...really misinformed view. They illegally annexed Crimea and are actively involved militarily in Eastern Ukraine 

 

 

As i said, you are funny on your ignorance. I´m so anti-western living in Austria, a western country which i would never leave. God you are ignorant.

 

1. Ehm no. Thats not what subjectivity means at all. It´s my opinion.

 

2.  How is it flawed? This is typical for you...making statements but never elucidating them, or proof them. China is not perfect but an economical powerhouse. You won´t get any help or ideas from the US, take a look at their economic system and how horrible it is. (trillions of debt, unemployment rising, cities going bankrupt, all easy info to find)

 

3. I assume you probably mean the US again as the example...yeah nice living..on debt. Democracy is a nice thing, sadly we live in representative democracies, where politicans always lie for their benefit and then do whatever they want as soon as they are elected. But yes a real democracy would something i would like to see for a change.

 

4. No one? You mean all that talk about ISOLATING russia coming out of the mouths of persons like Obama (go look at some interviews) is a lie? They are just not able too. Annexed? Funny, the referendum of the people of Crimea, observerd by over 70 international observers says something different. In fact that is legally in the UN charta. The only thing that was not legal, was that the soldiers (allready on the ground because of the military base) went out to (peacfully btw, not ONE shot) remove the armed forces of Ukraine AFTER Ukraine attacked the civilians in the east Ukraine. As far as i see it, he protected Crimea, and they are very happy about that. You should go there for holidays, it´s a real beautiful place in summer. And after that you should make a tour of the destroyed remains of east-ukraine, but careful or Kiev Grad might hit you in the head.

 

Patriotic? Patriotism is one of the most stupid things in existence. A falls sense of pride so that idiots go and fight wars for goverments. Oh don´t get me wrong, i would defend my home with all means. Because i live here and like it here, not because i was born here by accident. But i would never follow dumb idiots into wars, in countries that are none of my business. I mean come on. Look at the war history of the US, this highly patriotic country. A little bit of flag waving and some american and god slangs and they are off killing people all over the world. LOOK at the ****ing history man, it´s written in blood.

 

Oh for bloody hell:

a) Austria is not Germany

b) Germans don´t look down on Russians, in fact people are not happy about sanctions and don´t believe the **** they get fed too. The backlash, pressure on big outlets and viewer drops of this anti-russian crap is telling

c)Hitler has nothing at all to do with this

e) and this is something important. Europe had many wars in it´s past, but after it was done we made peace and moved on. This is in contrast to what the "empires" did and do, see history of UK and America. I mean you live in Africa for gods sake, you should know better than that. What you also don´t seem to get is that this is also Russian idiology, you can be an enemy in the past, but a good friend now. Otherwise they would never do business with Germany, not hard to understand is it?

 

And don´t even try to point out American and German "friendship" now, because even the germans know they are still effectly occupied.

 

As for the EU, the list is so long....the short story? over 70% off laws come from Brussel, from non elected people, thats not a democracy, it´s the opposite. Not having our own courrency is a disaster. Their laws ruin this country and others. THATS why....and many many more reasons.

 

5. See, in contrast to you I HAVE shown in this thread that there is NO single proof of any Russian military there, have easily pointed out WHY Russians are willingly fighting there, HAVE debunked enough lies and proven them material, mostly coming out of the mouths of these people you seem to like so much. Not that it matters, nowdays there are volunters in the Donbas from all over europe (it´s a nice thing to have phone cameras these days) and even the OSCE must admit the constant violations of the Minsk 2 from Kiev.

 

All that together proofs me right, and makes you look like the one who is totally misinformed, ignorant and blind. But because you can´t come up with something, this will again be an one sided discussion. So there is no point in talking with you any more or is there?

[BruceVC]

 

In response, I like you cirdanx. You are always so anti-Western...but its like you learnt  it in some " Putin Propaganda Academy " ...its really easy to dispute. But I do appreciate the fact you are prepared to spend time debating these points so nice one    

 

1. That's subjective of course 

2. BRICS is flawed and has serious imbalances. It has benefited South Africa very little except for making our current Government sycophants of China and creating a mistaken view of how to grow the economy

3. No Western culture is about a global, prosperous and secure world where the principles of Democracy and reasonable free markets are upheld. And this is a good objective as Western countries offer there citizens the best quality of life and have the happiest citizens 

4.No one  wants to isolate Russia, they are an important player in the global world..but Putin cannot believe he can get away with just annexing parts of countries. He went too far. Why do you dislike the EU, you not very patriotic? I thought the Germans looked down on the Russian...remember Hitler 

5. Utterly wrong...really misinformed view. They illegally annexed Crimea and are actively involved militarily in Eastern Ukraine 

 

 

As i said, you are funny on your ignorance. I´m so anti-western living in Austria, a western country which i would never leave. God you are ignorant.

 

1. Ehm no. Thats not what subjectivity means at all. It´s my opinion.

 

2.  How is it flawed? This is typical for you...making statements but never elucidating them, or proof them. China is not perfect but an economical powerhouse. You won´t get any help or ideas from the US, take a look at their economic system and how horrible it is. (trillions of debt, unemployment rising, cities going bankrupt, all easy info to find)

 

3. I assume you probably mean the US again as the example...yeah nice living..on debt. Democracy is a nice thing, sadly we live in representative democracies, where politicans always lie for their benefit and then do whatever they want as soon as they are elected. But yes a real democracy would something i would like to see for a change.

 

4. No one? You mean all that talk about ISOLATING russia coming out of the mouths of persons like Obama (go look at some interviews) is a lie? They are just not able too. Annexed? Funny, the referendum of the people of Crimea, observerd by over 70 international observers says something different. In fact that is legally in the UN charta. The only thing that was not legal, was that the soldiers (allready on the ground because of the military base) went out to (peacfully btw, not ONE shot) remove the armed forces of Ukraine AFTER Ukraine attacked the civilians in the east Ukraine. As far as i see it, he protected Crimea, and they are very happy about that. You should go there for holidays, it´s a real beautiful place in summer. And after that you should make a tour of the destroyed remains of east-ukraine, but careful or Kiev Grad might hit you in the head.

 

Patriotic? Patriotism is one of the most stupid things in existence. A falls sense of pride so that idiots go and fight wars for goverments. Oh don´t get me wrong, i would defend my home with all means. Because i live here and like it here, not because i was born here by accident. But i would never follow dumb idiots into wars, in countries that are none of my business. I mean come on. Look at the war history of the US, this highly patriotic country. A little bit of flag waving and some american and god slangs and they are off killing people all over the world. LOOK at the ****ing history man, it´s written in blood.

 

Oh for bloody hell:

a) Austria is not Germany

b) Germans don´t look down on Russians, in fact people are not happy about sanctions and don´t believe the **** they get fed too. The backlash, pressure on big outlets and viewer drops of this anti-russian crap is telling

c)Hitler has nothing at all to do with this

e) and this is something important. Europe had many wars in it´s past, but after it was done we made peace and moved on. This is in contrast to what the "empires" did and do, see history of UK and America. I mean you live in Africa for gods sake, you should know better than that. What you also don´t seem to get is that this is also Russian idiology, you can be an enemy in the past, but a good friend now. Otherwise they would never do business with Germany, not hard to understand is it?

 

And don´t even try to point out American and German "friendship" now, because even the germans know they are still effectly occupied.

 

As for the EU, the list is so long....the short story? over 70% off laws come from Brussel, from non elected people, thats not a democracy, it´s the opposite. Not having our own courrency is a disaster. Their laws ruin this country and others. THATS why....and many many more reasons.

 

5. See, in contrast to you I HAVE shown in this thread that there is NO single proof of any Russian military there, have easily pointed out WHY Russians are willingly fighting there, HAVE debunked enough lies and proven them material, mostly coming out of the mouths of these people you seem to like so much. Not that it matters, nowdays there are volunters in the Donbas from all over europe (it´s a nice thing to have phone cameras these days) and even the OSCE must admit the constant violations of the Minsk 2 from Kiev.

 

All that together proofs me right, and makes you look like the one who is totally misinformed, ignorant and blind. But because you can´t come up with something, this will again be an one sided discussion. So there is no point in talking with you any more or is there?

 

1. No it is subjective, you said I have no idea what I'm talking about. Please refer  to the definition 

 

http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/subjective?showCookiePolicy=true

 

""of, relating to, or emanating from a person's emotions, prejudices, etc   ⇒ subjective views" 

 

No need to thank me, we all sometimes make mistakes with the usage of English words 

 

2. BRICS is flawed, it has benefited the South African economy  very little because we are flooded by Chinese goods that undercut our own local goods and the Chinese dictate to us who can visit out country. They said we musn't allow the Dala Lama to visit and somehow his visa wasn't arranged in time 

 

3, Okay so for you there are no real Democracies...okay well I'm sorry you see it like that. Just because Democracies have issues it doesn't mean they don't exist. What would be your ideal system of government or what country has your ideal system of government 

 

4. Are you seriously suggesting that the Crimea referendum was legitimate ? Just to clarify what I mean. I am not saying that the majority of the people in Crimea didn't want to be part of Russia. I am saying the referendum was illegitimate because no one except Russia and its allies recognized it  which means it won't get the global recognition it needs. 

 

Austria is basically like Germany's  little brother. You have such strong cultural ties you may  as well be   "mini-Germany " ...nothing wrong with that by the way. Germany is an economic powerhouse, I wish my country had such strong ties with another country 

 

5. Obviously Russia will say the soldiers in Ukraine are "volunteers " ...they aren't exactly going to admit to sending troops. See the link below to understand the Russian strategy

 

http://www.rferl.org/content/russia-nemtsov-report-ukraine-war/27011532.html

 

 

Well we can continue the debate but I don't see much point because there is very little you can say to  change my mind ?But I did enjoy the exchange of views

[Varana]

b) ... in fact people are not happy about sanctions and don´t believe the **** they get fed too. The backlash, pressure on big outlets and viewer drops of this anti-russian crap is telling

And don´t even try to point out American and German "friendship" now, because even the germans know they are still effectly occupied.

 

As a German, I would seriously prefer you to stop spewing nonsense about what Germans think and know. Thanks.

 

Not going to bother with the rest here. oby can be proud of you.

[obyknven]

 

b) ... in fact people are not happy about sanctions and don´t believe the **** they get fed too. The backlash, pressure on big outlets and viewer drops of this anti-russian crap is telling

And don´t even try to point out American and German "friendship" now, because even the germans know they are still effectly occupied.

 

As a German, I would seriously prefer you to stop spewing nonsense about what Germans think and know. Thanks.

 

Not going to bother with the rest here. oby can be proud of you.

 

Nonsense! Reptiloids are not Germans.

[Varana]

Right, most Germans are not reptilian.

Only those who matter are.

Don't disturb our plans.

[Agiel]

I'll bet you that they're 10 foot tall, subterranean Jewish Freemason bankers too.

[Malcador]

Russia not invaded yet ?

[cirdanx]

 

b) ... in fact people are not happy about sanctions and don´t believe the **** they get fed too. The backlash, pressure on big outlets and viewer drops of this anti-russian crap is telling

And don´t even try to point out American and German "friendship" now, because even the germans know they are still effectly occupied.

 

As a German, I would seriously prefer you to stop spewing nonsense about what Germans think and know. Thanks.

 

Not going to bother with the rest here. oby can be proud of you.

 

 

Well of course it´s generalisation and i can´t speak for every german, (that so obvious thats it´s nonsense to bring it up) just the few dozens i personaly know and have talked about that. You saying the opposite is also bull****, because you don´t speak for everyone too. The reaction to the press coverage on the other side, like outlets like Spiegel coming out and apologising for their one sided coverage because they lost tons of viewers of this, speaks a clear language. Your little Oby remark is also silly, because i have no business with that person.

[obyknven]

Russia not invaded yet ?

They don't want

[cirdanx]

1. No it is subjective, you said I have no idea what I'm talking about. Please refer  to the definition 

 

 

http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/subjective?showCookiePolicy=true

 

""of, relating to, or emanating from a person's emotions, prejudices, etc   ⇒ subjective views" 

 

No need to thank me, we all sometimes make mistakes with the usage of English words 

 

2. BRICS is flawed, it has benefited the South African economy  very little because we are flooded by Chinese goods that undercut our own local goods and the Chinese dictate to us who can visit out country. They said we musn't allow the Dala Lama to visit and somehow his visa wasn't arranged in time 

 

3, Okay so for you there are no real Democracies...okay well I'm sorry you see it like that. Just because Democracies have issues it doesn't mean they don't exist. What would be your ideal system of government or what country has your ideal system of government 

 

4. Are you seriously suggesting that the Crimea referendum was legitimate ? Just to clarify what I mean. I am not saying that the majority of the people in Crimea didn't want to be part of Russia. I am saying the referendum was illegitimate because no one except Russia and its allies recognized it  which means it won't get the global recognition it needs. 

 

Austria is basically like Germany's  little brother. You have such strong cultural ties you may  as well be   "mini-Germany " ...nothing wrong with that by the way. Germany is an economic powerhouse, I wish my country had such strong ties with another country 

 

5. Obviously Russia will say the soldiers in Ukraine are "volunteers " ...they aren't exactly going to admit to sending troops. See the link below to understand the Russian strategy

 

http://www.rferl.org/content/russia-nemtsov-report-ukraine-war/27011532.html

 

 

Well we can continue the debate but I don't see much point because there is very little you can say to  change my mind ?But I did enjoy the exchange of views

 

 

1. Ugh, it´s still my opinion, you think itßs subjective, i think it´s a fact, based on what i have read from you. Nevermind.

 

2. That is not a flaw. You are always pointing out on how capitalism works. This is how it works. However, you also have to consider the billions of deals, from ressources to infrastructur that are made. Obivously this are not things anyone will immediately notice because they are long time projects. But in the end it will also mean work and money. Now, HOW that money will flow into your, or other countries depends also on your goverments. We all have corruption to deal with. But the question is, what is the alternative? What could, for an example the US offer you? Look at the pressure they try to impose on Brazil and other SA countries for doing business with others, do you want that?

 

3. Yes democracies have issues. Every form of state control has it´s issues. I don´t believe that one is fundementally food or bad. The general thing is that, those with power, will always try to stay in power and usually try to opresse others, thats history 101 for you.

 

What i personally would like to see is a modern adaption of the original democracy system of the greeks. Or at last an approach to a more open system like switzerland has it, with even more voting power of the people.

 

4. The referendum itself was legal. The action before was not, as i have said. The people living their have a right of self determination. In this case i´m fully on the side of the people (not russia, they might aswell have just said we want to rule outself). They wanted nothing to with the civil war and wanted to get aways. THIS is their right to do so. You can´t go around like the "west" (which are not united in this) and talk about democracy and human rights, but as soon as people want to determine their future you bring out the whip and so no? Thats hypocritical in definition.

 

The problem here is the that there is a conflict in rights. On the one side the UN charta comes along with the right of self determination on the other side it also talks about territorial integrity. I don´t know about you, but the people are more important than an artificial line on a map.

 

It doesn´t matter if Washington or Brussel recognize it. It´s a done deal and they know it. Them runing around and screaming "we don´t recognize it" makes them look like idiots, they don´t own the world. Not to mention that both, but the US especially, shouldn´t even open their mouth about international law, they are first to break it if they feel the need to.

 

Oh god don´t say that lol! Yes we have strong historical and cultural ties with Germany, and i like that country and in general the people. But the ties are not that strong as many outsiders believe. Our economic ties are strong, but that also means we suffer when they do. And it doesn´t mean that when they are doing good, we do good also. (thats exactly the case now, we don´t profit from their powerhouse right now) From the outside it all looks good, but we have some serious economic problems, a lot of them relating to senseless and useless sanctions against one of our main trading partners...russia.

 

5. Here is the thing. Nemtsovs´s report has barely any sources. Everyone knows Nemtsov was against the current leadership in russia. He was the opossion, one that barely existed. Nemtsov was political dead. If thats your own source then..well -> laugh.

 

Now don´t get me wrong. I firmly believe that russia has special units in east Ukrain, to train soldiers etc. How is that problem? From day one the US send (openly) high ranking CIA official and military advisers into Ukrain. That is not an secret. Also weapons, which were found and documented by the OSCE (including international banned ammuniton). So bascily it´s ok for the US/Nato to stir up **** and support a goverment that kills it´s own people but when russia sends the people who are killed the same it´s not ok? Not to mention that boarder guards, the OSCE and even the top military commander from the Ukraine army said that there are NO russian soldiers there. I even posted the link to the video before.

 

 

You said the military is there... Think about it. There are international observers, boarder guards. US surveillance ships in the black sea and god knows what else. It would be easy to spot and proof they existence of any military force of russia there. The fun part is, that everything that came up, pictures, 1 sat picture have been debunked and that even the US defence ministry has over and over again said that they can´t proof any of this when asked, but at the same time all we hear is russian agression. So?

 

 

I agree, we won´t find a common point i think

[obyknven]

Together with our beloved Ukrainian enemies we fapped to small outpost of Russian Imperial Guards  fieldcamp of Rebel army.

http://youtu.be/lS5qYLJib3M

 

Just for comparison ( if someone don't believe into Rebels ).  

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/policy-budget/leaders/2015/07/06/islamic-state-terrorist-army-france-isil/29771641/

 

 

The Islamic State militant group is no longer a terrorist group, but rather has morphed into a "terrorist army," the French minister of defence said Monday.

By Ukrainian logic ISIS can form army, but East Ukrainian untermenches separatists (with financial and logistical l help of East Ukrainian oligarchy) can't do same thing .

[obyknven]

Civil war begin in Western Ukraine (near of Hungarian border) also. Ukrainian Nazi send Murican colonial administration GTFO and attack local authorities.  Murica can lose control upon own spawn soon.

http://youtu.be/hexRskhproc

Ukraine is just some sort of Latin America (Junta, Nazi Death Squads, Civil war etc) in Europe.  

 

[HoonDing]

The world has forgotten already.

[Malcador]

The world has forgotten already.

Indeed.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/11/30/on-ukraines-frontlines-u-s-supplied-equipment-is-falling-apart/

 

On the outskirts of the separatist-controlled city of Donetsk, for example, one Ukrainian special forces unit is using U.S.-supplied Humvees dating from the late 1980s and early 1990s, based on serial numbers on the vehicles.

 

Three of the Humvees had plastic doors and windows — barely any protection at all. The tires on one of the trucks blew apart after driving only a few hundred kilometers, the result of sitting in a warehouse too long, said one mechanic.

 

Another infantry unit of approximately 120 men received from the Pentagon a single bulletproof vest — a type that U.S. troops stopped using in combat during the mid-2000

[HoonDing]

And people are surprised ISIS are winning.

[BruceVC]

And people are surprised ISIS are winning.

Winning? What are you  talking about ....ISIS is sustaining its territory only because no country with a effective military like the USA, Russia or France is prepared to send in ground troops. If this happens I am confident ISIS will be defeated in land battles