Path of the Damned Discussion

[Osvir]

Hello!

This thread is about Path of the Damned difficulty, experiences and what you think about difficulty in general. You may discuss all aspects of Difficulty, all the way from Easy, to all the way to Expert/Trial of Iron/Path of the Damned. I named the title as seen above because I am focused on the Path of the Damned difficulty, as well as to gain some attention (Rather than "Difficulty Discussion #58").

I was thinking of making a "Challenge" or "Community Event" as well, just to see how far people manage to get on the hardest difficulty, but we'll see, maybe I will start a new thread or write it out at the bottom of this post.

Path of the Damned:
(1) - Have you played it? 
(2) - How far have you gotten in it? 

These are the 2 main questions.

(1) Yes, and I think it's fun. You need to think about food, preparation, go to the shops, gear, items, resting, party members. This is the most tactical/challenging option (of course), and I highly recommend playing on the hardest of hard if you are interested in combat or tactical play. Difficulty enhances the tactical experience.

(2) I've pretty much just grazed the Path of the Damned difficulty with my presence. I've made good and capable teams that has been strong enough to deal with Path of the Damned, problem is I have made a dumb mistake myself.

I've played it both with a 4-man party and a 6-man party, and defeated Nyfre's group on the upper floor. Both times were rough, but I managed to defeat Nyfre without much problem.

It's when I get to the beetles that I get destroyed, because I make the same mistake each time and I forget it for the next time. This is my error, my fault, and I could've probably gotten past the beetles several times if I hadn't forgotten it. Human error/Player error.

The first batch of beetles (1 or 2) are easy to deal with, but as you trench on further east, you get attacked by like 5-6 beetles at once, and that has been my downfall each time, regardless of how prepared I have been.

The Challenge: Rules
- Create an Adventurer's party on Path of the Damned and defeat Kongrak.
- You must kick out the BB Party members (part of the rules).
- You may not use exploits/abuse or other cheese/cheat tactics.

Have fun

For the non-Damned:
If you aren't a "Path of the Damned" Player, or too scared to even try it (I suggest you try it for good measure regardless, as a Beta tester you'll also gain more insight into the full features of the game/Beta). Or maybe it just isn't your style or what you want out of the game... what difficulty do you play on and what do you think of that difficulty? Easy, Normal, Hard? Do you pick any of the Extra options? (Trial of Iron/Expert)

What do you think of the Difficulty of your choosing in general in Pillars of Eternity? Is Easy too easy? Does that matter at all? (You can just play on Normal instead?) is Normal too Normal? Does that matter at all? (You can play on Hard instead?) etc. etc.

How well do the transition from Easy to Normal function? Do they match well with the understanding and skill required? (In some games, you can start on Easy, and it is Easy, but when you get up to Normal, it's like jumping from Too Easy to Too Hard, in some games). Does Pillars of Eternity succeed in hand-holding the Player on Easy, so that they can take on the more challenging experience on Normal?

What I want to explore with this thread as well is, Easy Players telling about their experience of Normal difficulty, and Normal Players telling about their experience of Hard Difficulty, etc. Challenge yourself to get an idea of the harder difficulties, and is the gap "too great", or is it too short?

Do you pick up the controls easy on Hard, after having played on Easy? Or do you struggle and can't win any combat fights whatsoever? Did you read the Glossary? The descriptions of skills? Did your Rest? Food? Items? Gear? Etc. etc.

Thoughts?

P.S. (Non-spoiler material, but it makes the post look better). Advice to keep thread organized/managed for all posters/readers/lurkers:

I would appreciate if you used a "Tag" or "Title" at the top of your post what you'd like to discuss

- "Difficulty" if you just want to discuss Difficulty in general.

- "Damned" if you want to discuss Path of the Damned.

- "Challenge" if you want to present your achievements of the challenge. You may include attributes, talents/skills, abilities.

You can discuss both aspects in your post too of course, but separate it.

Example:

Difficulty
I think Difficulty is a variety, Easy allows me to learn the game and it's not very difficult. It's a breeze, but as always, a misstep is a dead step. However, it gets the job done and allows me as the Player to experience the story and immerse myself and enjoy myself with the game

Damned

It's difficult, just like how I like it. I can't speak entirely 100% about it until I have actually finished all the content on this difficulty myself, but my inherent experience of it is that I haven't been capable of defeating it and that I will need more time with it to win and crush it.

Challenge
I have managed to defeat Nyfre, with both a 6 man party and a 4 man party. I managed to defeat some of the beetles at the Dyrford Crossing, but got squashed and overwhelmed as I made the same mistake both times (I can't remember or recall what my attributes/talents/abilities were, below is an example).

Party:
- Fighter (Name)
(Attributes/Talents/Gear)

- Paladin (Name)
(Attributes/Talents/Gear)

- Barbarian (Name)
(Attributes/Talents/Gear)

- Rogue (Name)
(Attributes/Talents/Gear)

- Priest (Name)
(Attributes/Talents/Gear)

- Wizard (Name)
(Attributes/Talents/Gear)

 

 

Edited December 11, 2014 by Osvir

[constantine]

Great thread I'd like to see feedback from.

 

My thing is, I haven't understood the difference between Hard setting - Path of the Damned.

 

I know that Easy-Normal-Hard does not make enemies tougher or changes their tactics, but instead adds more of them in an encounter (or a mage where there were only fighters)

 

So what does Path of the Damn exactly ? It overrides other difficulty settings ? Or can someone play on Normal with PotD On per say ?

Edited December 11, 2014 by constantine

[Osvir]

So what does Path of the Damn exactly ? It overrides other difficulty settings ? Or can someone play on Normal with PotD On per say ?

PotD = Extreme/Insane/Hardcore

 

Easy

Normal

Hard

Insane Path of the Damned

 

Extra Options:

- Trial of Iron

- Expert Mode

 

^That's all it is, really. Well, Path of the Damned does introduce larger mobs (Beetle battle in Dyrford Crossing for instance, there's tons more beetles). You have to be way more careful, prepared, itemized, geared up, abilities, attributes etc. etc. you have to think much more, scout more I think (which I have failed to do).

 

However, maybe the Difficulty levels should be more normalized. Change the titles of "Expert Mode" and "Path of the Damned" a la:

 

Easy

Normal

Hard

Expert

 

Extras:

- Path of the Damned

- Trial of Iron

 

It could look better too in the New Game screen, unless "Path of the Damned" is too many letters and makes it look clunky. Below is an ideas:

 

Extras:

- Damned

- Trial of Iron

 

Naming "Path of the Damned", "Damned" only is in some ways fitting. Because what "Expert Mode" does is that it removes some UI elements, and being "Damned" could be seen as "Stuff is being taken away from you", and "stuff" would be "UI" elements.

 

"Damned" is also the same amount of letters as "Expert", and only takes up a slight amount of more horizontal space on the screen.

 

EDIT: UNLESS... unless Obsidian has a message to convey with the "Path of the Damned", to Hardcore players: "May you burn in the eternal flames!!!" xD

Edited December 11, 2014 by Osvir

[constantine]

Thanks for the info.

 

I will stick to Hard+ Expert Mode. I sense PotD will make encounters too crazy so that they will feel unnatural to the quests-game world, and that's what matters to me the most.

[Osvir]

I couldn't be capable of giving you a full insight into PotD. I have hardly gotten anywhere with it on, which is why I made this thread. I want to hear what people think about PotD in the Beta*, regardless if they are Easy-Players or Hard-Players.

Thus far though, it has made Medreth's group have 2 or 3 more cowled followers, Nyfre might have 1 or 2 more dudes (I didn't check it). The amount of Beetles doesn't feel awkward or too much in authenticity or in thematic expressions, it's just really difficult. I would have to get much further in PotD to be able to give you insight into whether it is unnatural or not, or you'll have to try it yourself and get the insight first-hand

EDIT: 
* I think that PotD is challenging thus far, it's a mountain I want to attempt to climb again. I feel I have been capable of dealing with it, but I have been making fatally bad mistakes or the wrong decisions when playing the mode. Each time has been a bit of a trial and error, as well as remembrance of "Oh right! Food bonuses! Rest bonuses! Potions of healing! Right, Crafting!". Most elements are vital to success, and it is enjoyable to use and think of all assets available.

When playing Easy, Normal, Hard, I am mostly only navigating the "game board". Running around, dialogue, on-screen UI/HUD. It's less about tactical thinking, and more about playing/immersing on easier difficulties. In PotD, more chin rubbing, longer pauses in combat, more reading and researching (Glossary is great), thinking about skill synchronizations on other characters (idea for a new topic/thread incoming).

This is a topic I want to throw into the "Engagement" discussion as well, which can be boiled down to "Combat" discussion. A lot of people are saying "It isn't tactical enough, it's easy, abuseable, exploitable!" and so on and forth, and my opinion is that "Most Tactical/Strategical == Most Difficult"

Edited December 11, 2014 by Osvir

[constantine]

Well I may try it then, as crazy as that sounds

[MReed]

For easy, normal, and hard there are specific groups of enemies in each encounter, and they aren't (necessarily) cumulative.  In other words, you get a totally different mix of foes for each encounter in each difficulty mode.

 

In PotD, you get them all, although some consolidation occurs (you'll only get one copy of a named foe, for example).

[ctn2003]

the combat makes the path of the dammed kinda usless and THEIRS NO POINT! i understand its a rpg but shesh i wish i could get somthing speail at the end for all the work i put into it.

[Osvir]

the combat makes the path of the dammed kinda usless and THEIRS NO POINT! i understand its a rpg but shesh i wish i could get somthing speail at the end for all the work i put into it.

Sorry, difficult to follow this post.

 

Easy Combat is not the same as Normal Combat, or Hard Combat. Each difficulty provides a different level of difficulty or playstyle.

 

If I thought "Easy Combat" was "too easy, it's bad, it should be harder and more fun and the AI should be super smart" then maybe I'm playing on the wrong difficulty? What do I want out of the Difficulty? Etc. etc.

 

Playing on Normal and thinking Combat is the worst thanks to how I play on Normal, maybe I would play differently and more to my desire on Hard?

 

The thing is, if you stick to one difficulty and play only on that one difficulty, how will you ever know if the system is fully functional on the hardest or easiest setting? For instance, in Path of the Damned I think about my play better, and on Easy I think about story much better. It's probably natural. On Easy or Normal, Combat isn't much to worry about, really.

 

Get to Kongrak (the Ogre) on Path of the Damned ctn2003, and then tell me if you managed to play tactically and strategically to overcome all obstacles

[MReed]

Osvir:  The concern being raised by ctn2003 is, I believe, "I don't get any [more] XP for my extra work in clearing combat encounters in a Path of the Dammed play-through, so why bother?"

[Osvir]

Oh! Well then, let me rephrase:

If you think that combat is bad and unrewarding in lower difficulties, maybe you'd find combat itself more rewarding on higher difficulties? Otherwise, if one doesn't like combat, can't they just play on Easy and breeze through the combat and avoid it?

Edited December 11, 2014 by Osvir

[Mlatimudan]

surely due to how the bestiary works if there are more things to kill you get more xp, granted it probably isn't a huge increase but still you do get something.

please correct me if I'm wrong.

[MReed]

Beastiry XP is capped (for each monster type), and the devs have stated that critical path quests only will be enough to max it out. Thus, in a path of the dammed playthrough will result in you capping out very quickly, and in any case you won't earn more XP than in a playthrough at a lower level.

[Mlatimudan]

Sure you won't earn more xp(but why would you want to, if there is 12 levels you can't really get to 18) but you will earn it quicker which to me seems like you are being rewarded for playing it to some extent. I am willing to bet that since the monsters are hard+normal+easy you will be able to stay a level ahead of any of those playthroughs on path of the damned from a certain point onward(lets say level 6 for the hell of it)

[MReed]

That a PotD playthrough would be +1 level for the majority of game (vs. a hard playthrough) sounds about right, and sounds reasonable to me (if you were much more advanced than that, then combat would become easier [v hard], kinda of defeating the purpose).  But then again, I'm not particularly in favor of combat XP at all, much less playing in PotD...   I suspect that ctn2003 would feel very differently.

[ISC]

There's also the amount of loot, whatever that counts for.

[aeonsim]

I've been playing a bit of PotD some areas are worse than others:

 

Party is main Chr Wizard + Custom lvl 4 Chanter, + BB_party.

 

Managed to clear out Mdth with out much difficulty (no one down).

On the crossings map I cleared everything out doors except the bunch of Monsters above the cave.

So all Beatles (Stone, Adra, wood), wolves and Elder wolves, Spiders, Drakes and the Bandit party, 3 got knocked out going after the bandits.

 

In the cave I've cleared the way to the Ogre and removed all the patrolling spiders (around 20), but didn't fight the Ogre and his bear pack. Had to rest about 3 times to clear out everything above ground and the part of the cave I had a go at.

 

In the cult ruin I've cleared my way to the bridge with out to much difficult then with most of the party wounded got absolutely stomped by the cult 'party' that guards the other side.

 

In the gorge I've cleared out the monsters above the ruin and all the Lions and Elder lions. In the Ruins I'm getting stomped by the spiders (especially the Crystal eaters) and spectres probably need to go back to town to rest up.

 

 

In general there are more creatures and they seem to hit a bit harder or more likely there's a shift to a larger number of the more dangerous creatures Adra Beatles, Elder Wolves and Lions. There is a huge number of spiders (killed ~20 in the cave and there were another 10-15 around the Queen). The Ogre has a pack of ~ half a dozen beers guarding him as well. The monster party above the cave numbers around 8 individuals (I've seen other people attack that group and only faced 3 or so individuals)

 

 

With the party composition I'm running I'm very light of tanks so If I can block or distract the enemies for long enough to start building up multiple spell effects and the wizard accuracy spell to maximise AOE damage I tend to annihilate the enemy but if there are enough enemies to get around or they use ranged attacks to target the spell casters things get messy.

Edited December 11, 2014 by aeonsim

[Lord Wafflebum]

I'm afraid of PotD.

 

Maybe once I have enough meta knowledge of the game I'll try it, cry, and realize how unworthy I am. I'm gonna be saving my attempt at it for the full release, tho. I want to have a much deeper understanding of the game systems before I try, and that can only come with multiple playthroughs.

[Kjaamor]

Tried it with 2x Ciphers a few patches ago, might as well have been on easy for the most part.

 

Tried it once without Ciphers, died at the third beetle group.

 

Based upon the beta, I will probably play on PotD by default as "Hard" feels a shade too easy at present.

[W.MacKinnon]

I read this and realize I have much to learn. My party gets curb stomped on Normal mode all the time fighting beetles and druids. Still it's good to see that once you get the tactics the combat gets easier.

Cheers by the way. Testing the hardest modes is important, especially for the longevity of a game. Once I beat a game on easy/normal if I play again I'll creep up the difficulty. Think my problem might be not syncing my PC abilities like you mentioned Osvir.

[Kjaamor]

I think PoE lends itself particularly well to a certain style of playing, which is one that I happen to use. I would certainly not consider myself to be a "good" gamer, and my general preference for games with difficulty settings is to play it on easy first.

 

Four simple PoE rules:

 

1. Pause often.

2. Use a fighter to tank the most enemies (as opposed to the hardest).

3. Focus fire everyone else on one enemy at a time.

4. Your wizard is more trouble than he is worth, just let him auto-attack.

 

Obviously rules two, three and four won't see you through everything, but they're a good start.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Kjaamor

[Shevek]

You dont have to tank with a fighter (on hard, dont plan on ever playing PotD). My most successful playthroughs have been with a dps fighter rather than a defensive one. Also, you dont have to focus fire. Often its best to have your ranged go after certain enemies while melee handles others. I have to agree on the Wizard. I experimented a bit with a Druid and find it to be better overall.

[Kjaamor]

Tanking with other characters, particularly in terms of the BB characters, is sub-optimal. There is no getting around this. You can use other members of your party, but if you had to take a PoE player from easy to path of the damned using BB characters in four points and less than forty words I stand by my post.

[Shevek]

Well, BB characters are themselves suboptimal.

[Kjaamor]

Indeed. My thinking on the matter, though, is that in the real game, most players will be using companions with personalities who are sub-optimal, rather than optimised player creations. That being the case, I encourage the use of BB characters in terms of play development.