Is this harrassment ?

[BruceVC]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1XGPvbWn0A

 

Some of you have seen this video. The reason why I am posting it and getting peoples opinions is that its doing the rounds on a prominent South African talk show and the general consensus is that it is harassment

 

But I am not sure it is a good example? There is no doubt that some people are harassing her and overdoing the effort to speak to her but some guys are just greeting her. Is being friendly now something that is wrong?

 

The reason why I am asking is I often greet ladies I don't know and they generally  always respond with a greeting back, but I am worried that maybe I am unintentionally breaking some part of my SJ code? Am I actually harassing women just by greeting them? I doubt it but this video is good talking point around what is the difference between greeting someone and harassing them?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Bruce is ok with harassment everyone.

[Bryy]

but I am worried that maybe I am unintentionally breaking some part of my SJ code?

Okay. Bruce. Please step back and breathe, and please do not use buzzwords like this that make it easy to legitimize the idea that there are such a thing as SJWs.

[Longknife]

Lazily copy-pasting what my youtube comment says:

 

1) This is 10 hours walking in a major city. Major cities are notorious for containing a higher quota of mentally unstable people for various reasons, sure enough some of those examples WERE of questionable stability imo, namely the ones who followed or stared. I'd love to hear how you expect to fight such a problem in regards to them, as well as why the concern seems more focused on "boohoo I was complimented" rather than "there's a seemingly unstable person on the streets who may need help or the authorities may want to know about this individual."

2) How is this 100+ examples? I just counted. That was 22. I may have even overcounted just a smidge because I was counting camera changes and some of those guys appeared multiple times. There was even one or two guys who said NOTHING beyond "have a nice evening." WHAT A JERK, RIGHT? You may respond "obviously they left out some examples," but...why would they do that? These are quick snippets. It is not a waste of anyone's time to include them all. It took 2 minutes to show ~20, it would take 10 to show all 100.

3) Finally, I'm not trying to downplay this. With my above numbers, this is one remark every 30 minutes, which is still fairly frequent. However, I'm still going to say that I'm sorry, I have a difficult time sympathizing with this because if there were ever such a thing as first world problems, this is it.
   In situations like this...? Men exist who are unstable or who are horrendously awkward with women, and they do this stuff. It is not the world's job to get off it's ass and make day in it's schedule for fixing your first-world problem; if you think this will realistically happen, you are sadly very mistaken. I'm not saying this with the tone of "lol shutup and get over it," I'm saying this in the sense of let's put things in perspective and realize this issue is VERY low on the world's priorities and the chances something can realistically be done about it are ridiculously slim. By all means, post videos like this to try and get the message across women don't appreciate this, but I would also advise growing thicker skin and learning to live with this. Not because I have the attitude of it being in some way her fault or that random men have some right to do this (though technically they do, this is not illegal at all), but because I'm realist and I fear you're in for quite the disappointment if you EVER expect this to change. That's just a part of life and a part of city-life aswell. Everyone was dealt a different hand with different strengths and weaknesses, yours involves putting up with remarks like this.

....And again, this is hardcore First World Problems. Sorry, but no I don't have outrageous sympathy for "omg my day is ruined, a guy complimented me in a very crass fashion."

 

 

[BruceVC]

 

but I am worried that maybe I am unintentionally breaking some part of my SJ code?

Okay. Bruce. Please step back and breathe, and please do not use buzzwords like this that make it easy to legitimize the idea that there are such a thing as SJWs.

 

 

It would be nice if you answered my question instead of  criticizing my choice of words

 

Its easier to just say SJ code instead of going into great detail explaining my view on issues like sexism and racism

 

We all know what a " SJ code " means as most people know my stance on these matters

[BruceVC]

 

Lazily copy-pasting what my youtube comment says:

 

1) This is 10 hours walking in a major city. Major cities are notorious for containing a higher quota of mentally unstable people for various reasons, sure enough some of those examples WERE of questionable stability imo, namely the ones who followed or stared. I'd love to hear how you expect to fight such a problem in regards to them, as well as why the concern seems more focused on "boohoo I was complimented" rather than "there's a seemingly unstable person on the streets who may need help or the authorities may want to know about this individual."

 

2) How is this 100+ examples? I just counted. That was 22. I may have even overcounted just a smidge because I was counting camera changes and some of those guys appeared multiple times. There was even one or two guys who said NOTHING beyond "have a nice evening." WHAT A JERK, RIGHT? You may respond "obviously they left out some examples," but...why would they do that? These are quick snippets. It is not a waste of anyone's time to include them all. It took 2 minutes to show ~20, it would take 10 to show all 100.

 

3) Finally, I'm not trying to downplay this. With my above numbers, this is one remark every 30 minutes, which is still fairly frequent. However, I'm still going to say that I'm sorry, I have a difficult time sympathizing with this because if there were ever such a thing as first world problems, this is it.

   In situations like this...? Men exist who are unstable or who are horrendously awkward with women, and they do this stuff. It is not the world's job to get off it's ass and make day in it's schedule for fixing your first-world problem; if you think this will realistically happen, you are sadly very mistaken. I'm not saying this with the tone of "lol shutup and get over it," I'm saying this in the sense of let's put things in perspective and realize this issue is VERY low on the world's priorities and the chances something can realistically be done about it are ridiculously slim. By all means, post videos like this to try and get the message across women don't appreciate this, but I would also advise growing thicker skin and learning to live with this. Not because I have the attitude of it being in some way her fault or that random men have some right to do this (though technically they do, this is not illegal at all), but because I'm realist and I fear you're in for quite the disappointment if you EVER expect this to change. That's just a part of life and a part of city-life aswell. Everyone was dealt a different hand with different strengths and weaknesses, yours involves putting up with remarks like this.

 

....And again, this is hardcore First World Problems. Sorry, but no I don't have outrageous sympathy for "omg my day is ruined, a guy complimented me in a very crass fashion."

 

 

 

You and I are normally on opposite sides of the discussion around these topics but I think you raise some good points in this post

[Longknife]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1XGPvbWn0A

 

Some of you have seen this video. The reason why I am posting it and getting peoples opinions is that its doing the rounds on a prominent South African talk show and the general consensus is that it is harassment

 

But I am not sure it is a good example? There is no doubt that some people are harassing her and overdoing the effort to speak to her but some guys are just greeting her. Is being friendly now something that is wrong?

 

The reason why I am asking is I often greet ladies I don't know and they generally  always respond with a greeting back, but I am worried that maybe I am unintentionally breaking some part of my SJ code? Am I actually harassing women just by greeting them? I doubt it but this video is good talking point around what is the difference between greeting someone and harassing them?

 

 

Also, this does a lot to explain why you oppose GamerGate. You're so worried about self-proclaimed morally correct people thinking poorly of you that their say and their opinions seems to have immense sway and pull on you. Just sayin', don't be afraid to draw your own conclusions and not give a **** what others think. Doesn't make you a monster, makes you a person and an individual.

 

As for your greeting people, it highly depends on your culture and your location. NYC is a city. Cities tend to be unfriendly and inpersonable, so everyone's a little on guard about friendliness. And rightfully so. Born in San Francisco myself and was taught very young and from multiple people that you do NOT respond to a stranger saying hi, because they might be a crazy person who could react a number of ways to acknowledgement. Best to ignore and keep walking.

  Here in Germany, it's just not in the culture. While my fellow Germans often marvel at how friendly american culture is comparatively and love it, I think I would get funny looks if I said hi to a stranger on the streets -here-. Guys would laugh, girls would be weirded out potentially. (or not cuz I'm fukn hot)

  Finally I've lived in Oklahoma for a time. 30,000 people, so small town in the middle of nowhere. There people say hi as they walk by. Nothing strange about it.

 

 

Dunno where you live, but if others greet each other, then nah you're not bothering anyone. If you're the only one then it might stand out a bit. I'd gauge how people react and go from there on if you wanna keep doing it or not.

[Hurlshort]

The reaction people have to this video is weird to me.  People are all defensive about it.  This is an uncomfortable video, there are a number of creepy guys who have no idea how to act in a gentlemanly fashion.  You don't need to defend them.  Just be a gentleman and give a polite nod or smile when passing a lady in the streets.  Problem solved.  

[BruceVC]

A women phoned in on the radio station that played this video after I commented  and basically said " men don't think its harassment until its happened to them, this video is absolutely harassment and an invasion of a persons space"

Now I felt guilty when she said this because she was suggesting that I don't understand the plight of women and how they do get harassed

 

But once again parts of this video surly aren't harassment? So I don't think its as simple as labelling this video as " unequivocal harassment " ?

[Longknife]

A women phoned in on the radio station that played this video after I commented  and basically said " men don't think its harassment until its happened to them, this video is absolutely harassment and an invasion of a persons space"

Now I felt guilty when she said this because she was suggesting that I don't understand the plight of women and how they do get harassed

 

But once again parts of this video surly aren't harassment? So I don't think its as simple as labelling this video as " unequivocal harassment " ?

 

 

It's suffocating. Try to imagine yourself constantly being talked to or acknowledged by others. You'd feel as though you can't get a moment alone, and if you're shy or anxious by nature, then strangers would surely worry you.

 

It's not that those guys saying "have a nice evening" are harassing, it's just they're so used to the harassers that now simple acknowledgement like that gets them stressed again. It shouldn't, but it does.

 

Sec, I got another post to type up about this, but I eating a sammich. I'mma finish it then finish my thoughts.

[BruceVC]

The reaction people have to this video is weird to me.  People are all defensive about it.  This is an uncomfortable video, there are a number of creepy guys who have no idea how to act in a gentlemanly fashion.  You don't need to defend them.  Just be a gentleman and give a polite nod or smile when passing a lady in the streets.  Problem solved.  

 

Sure you right, and I have acknowledged that there are weird people on this video that have overstepped what is acceptable communication. So I'm not defending those people

 

But why its relevant for me is its now doing the rounds on the South African media circuit ( well it will be for the next 24 hours and then people will move on ) and its really getting lambasted by the talk show hosts because  "it shows how hard women have it some cities where they can't walk anywhere without getting harassed "

 

I just think that isn't a fair representation of the video and what it means, or rather for everyone on the video?

[BruceVC]

 

A women phoned in on the radio station that played this video after I commented  and basically said " men don't think its harassment until its happened to them, this video is absolutely harassment and an invasion of a persons space"

Now I felt guilty when she said this because she was suggesting that I don't understand the plight of women and how they do get harassed

 

But once again parts of this video surly aren't harassment? So I don't think its as simple as labelling this video as " unequivocal harassment " ?

 

 

It's suffocating. Try to imagine yourself constantly being talked to or acknowledged by others. You'd feel as though you can't get a moment alone, and if you're shy or anxious by nature, then strangers would surely worry you.

 

 

 

Yeah you right, I can completely understand that perspective. It must be awful, but remember that video is a social experiment. And she intentionally walked through certain areas in Manhattan  to see if she would get a certain reaction ?

[Guard Dog]

You all know I'm definitely not a big SJ advocate. But I don't bother talking to women I randomly meet on the street even to say Hi. Not from any desire not to harass but because the probabilities of a successful pick up under such circumstances is so remote it's not worth trying.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Guard Dog

[Volourn]

Some of it susrely harassment some of it is not. Taken in the context it wa clipped, the guy following her is obviously harassment if he was actually following. The guys saying hello and what not? That is not harassment. OMFG

 

 

"A women phoned in on the radio station that played this video after I commented  and basically said " men don't think its harassment until its happened to them, this video is absolutely harassment and an invasion of a persons space"

 

It might be surprising considering how ugly I am but I was 'catcalled' some when I was younger (and looked somehwat decent ) and no way did I think (well, internet was not 'mainstream' then) think OMG HARASSMENT I MUST TELL EVERYONE IN THE WORLD I'VE BEEN HARASSED!

 

That is asanine. In fact, that video is dubious. i wouldn't put it past that person to 'hire' certain men to play act 'harassment' for the video.

\

GET OVER YOURSELVES.

 

 

\Mores hallowly, she wasn't even all that good lookin'. LMAO (not saying that makes it alright but come on guys have more taste).

 

 

P.S. Women (and men) say hello to me all the time as they pass me by. OH MY GOD. THE HARASSMENT IS KILLING ME. THEY MSUT WANT ME SO BAD.

 

 

The egooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo of humanssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss......................

Edited October 30, 2014 by Volourn

[BruceVC]

You all know I'm definitely not a big SJ advocate. But I don't bother talking to women I randomly meet on the street even to say Hi. Not from any desire not to harass but because the probabilities of a successful pick up under such circumstances is so remote it's not worth trying.

 

 

Yeah that's a very valid point, your chance of success is almost zero

 

Its funny and  I have mentioned this before,  I have several friends who work at Hooters and they constantly tell me stories about pick-up lines they are subjected to at work  by guys who think " this is really going to impress them " ...yet they have really heard every single line in the book. And the most annoying thing is they have to smile and just pretend it doesn't bother them

Edited October 30, 2014 by BruceVC

[Longknife]

Actually I don't really have another post. Looked into the HollaBack group to fight against this, and they're reasonable in their goals and aims. They seem to acknowledge that all they really can do is try to communicate that women don't like this.

 

 

That's fair enough, because again I would argue that the world is NOT going to drop what it's doing to help some woman who cries "bawwww help me I got complimented," so women should just grow thicker skin with this, merely because the reality is it won't change. Was worried Hollaback might be very delusional or possibly scam-y in tone and expecting serious cultural changes, but they seem to understand that all they're capable of doing is trying to let men know what kinds of things annoy women.

[BruceVC]

Some of it susrely harassment some of it is not. Taken in the context it wa clipped, the guy following her is obviously harassment if he was actually following. The guys saying hello and what not? That is not harassment. OMFG

 

 

"A women phoned in on the radio station that played this video after I commented  and basically said " men don't think its harassment until its happened to them, this video is absolutely harassment and an invasion of a persons space"

 

It might be surprising considering how ugly I am but I was 'catcalled' some when I was younger (and looked somehwat decent ) and no way did I think (well, internet was not 'mainstream' then) think OMG HARASSMENT I MUST TELL EVERYONE IN THE WORLD I'VE BEEN HARASSED!

 

That is asanine. In fact, that video is dubious. i wouldn't put it past that person to 'hire' certain men to play act 'harassment' for the video.

\

GET OVER YOURSELVES.

 

 

\Mores hallowly, she wasn't even all that good lookin'. LMAO (not saying that makes it alright but come on guys have more taste).

 

 

P.S. Women (and men) say hello to me all the time as they pass me by. OH MY GOD. THE HARASSMENT IS KILLING ME. THEY MSUT WANT ME SO BAD.

 

 

The egooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo of humanssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss......................

 

Good points raised,  I suppose the argument would be men generally aren't exposed to the same type of constant  harassment that potentially women are. So a man getting greeted by random women is probably not as common and therefore not such a big issue?

[Lexx]

A friend of me explained to me that saying "How are you?" and stuff to a woman on the street is the first step to being a rapist.

 

/Edit: I am serious.

 

/Edit²: He also said it is from an "in america" point of view. It's not that extreme in europe / germany.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Lexx

[Volourn]

In a big city they probably are but most people - men AND women - aren't going to count a simple 'how are you doing' as harassment like this video apparantly does. In fact, this does a diservice to those who actually are harassed. ie. Someone being s'alked'/f'ollowed' by the apparant creeper is not on the same level and should not be comapred to someone simply saying hello.

 

It's the same thing we have with 'eye rape' which devalues the atcual word rape which is an actual disgusting act. Same with 'statuary raope' which is arguably immoral but is nowhere near (depending on age of course a 40 year old with a 12 year is a nono but technically a 19 year old with a 15 year is 'statuary rape') actual rape and the fact they are linked in the way they do is horrible and spits in the face of actual rape victims and survivors

 

 

 

"A friend of me explained to me that saying "How are you?" and stuff to a woman on the street is the first step to being a rapist.."

 

K.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Volourn

[BruceVC]

In a big city they probably are but most people - men AND women - aren't going to count a simple 'how are you doing' as harassment like this video apparantly does. In fact, this does a diservice to those who actually are harassed. ie. Someone being s'alked'/f'ollowed' by the apparant creeper is not on the same level and should not be comapred to someone simply saying hello.

 

It's the same thing we have with 'eye rape' which devalues the atcual word rape which is an actual disgusting act. Same with 'statuary raope' which is arguably immoral but is nowhere near (depending on age of course a 40 year old with a 12 year is a nono but technically a 19 year old with a 15 year is 'statuary rape') actual rape and the fact they are linked in the way they do is horrible and spits in the face of actual rape victims and survivors

 

 

 

"A friend of me explained to me that saying "How are you?" and stuff to a woman on the street is the first step to being a rapist.."

 

K.

 

Yes the whole issue of statuary rape can be very controversial

 

In South Africa the legal age limit for sex is 16 but the reality is we have girls who fall pregnant from the age of 12 and onwards ( mostly from 14 )

 

So now they have passed new legislation that says consensual sex between two people under the age of 16 cannot be statuary rape

[BruceVC]

A friend of me explained to me that saying "How are you?" and stuff to a woman on the street is the first step to being a rapist.

 

/Edit: I am serious.

 

/Edit²: He also said it is from an "in america" point of view. It's not that extreme in europe / germany.

 

A friend of me explained to me that saying "How are you?" and stuff to a woman on the street is the first step to being a rapist.

 

/Edit: I am serious.

 

/Edit²: He also said it is from an "in america" point of view. It's not that extreme in europe / germany.

 

I'm interested in this perspective and reasoning, what is the basis for this type of thinking ?

[Volourn]

"what is the basis for this type of thinking ?"

 

Insanity.

[BruceVC]

The best sum up was "you won't talk because I'm ugly?". Of course it is. If a good looking rich boy walked to her asking straight for a quickie in his lambo she would abandon this project so quickly she would only have time to leave her panties on the camera before jumping in to the car.

Maybe she would, but it shouldn't be assumed. So we still need to accept that a good looking rich boy can also be guilty of harassment ?

[Longknife]

In a big city they probably are but most people - men AND women - aren't going to count a simple 'how are you doing' as harassment like this video apparantly does.

 

 

Again I just wanna say this not so much in regards to this issue, but a little (important) life knowledge: there ARE cities where it's typically a bad idea to respond to a stranger saying things as simple as "how are you." I'm not talking a guy with some flyers to pass out or someone obviously trying to promote a product or whatever, but some random person chatting you up. This applies to both men and women. There's sadly some unstable people out there and you simply don't know what'll trigger them, so it's best to ignore them. No eye contact, no vocal acknowledgement, no nothing. Just keep walking and if you feel followed or in danger, head towards someplace you feel safe.

 

 

   While I actually do have respect for the modest and humble efforts by that Hollaback group, I also think it's still a truth that this issue cannot universally be weeded out so long as mentally unstable people walk the streets. I would dare say those men who followed her (and maybe one guy that was dressed very odd) do not count as good evidence of "harassment" in my mind solely because I question their stability. They could've easily acted weird towards anyone, but attractive people unfortunately attract crazies as well and thus have to cope with them more.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

A friend of me explained to me that saying "How are you?" and stuff to a woman on the street is the first step to being a rapist.

 

/Edit: I am serious.

 

/Edit²: He also said it is from an "in america" point of view. It's not that extreme in europe / germany.

I thought being a male was the first step towards being a rapist?