Restore the "Beatles" Encounter for Hard Difficulty

[Sensuki]

Did anyone playing on Hard ask for the opening beetle encounters in the Dyrford Crossing to be nerfed to crap? I certainly didn't.

 

I've been having great fun playing that encounter and it was the best encounter in the Dyrford Crossing exterior, honestly I don't really see why it needed to be nerfed. I do remember suggesting that the groups be MOVED further back, but not REMOVED.

 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIRfCmyR7ijJVaS8mrbpvsCXPCl61FSaW

 

The only thing I would have changed from the original is to move the northmost group further north and the immediate encounter further east so you have more room to fight against the one in the middle of the road.

 

This encounter is an iconic encounter from the Backer Beta, it has a special place in Pillars of Eternity history for defeating countless backers. This is a good thing! For players who play on HARD difficulty, it should definitely stay vanilla.

 

In the name of Cleveland Mark Blakemore, I hereby protest at the removal of this encounter, and request that the first three beetle encounters be restored for Hard Difficulty!!!!!!!!!1111111111111111

 

Edited September 29, 2014 by Sensuki

[Hormalakh]

I second this. If it's hard, that word should have some meaning.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Moar Beetles!

[Hiro Protagonist II]

I'm going to go with Obsidian's decision on this one. We need more ways to avoid trash mob encounters.

[Sensuki]

The main beetle encounter is not a trash mob encounter really, it's better than all the other fights on the map. I think it's definitely worth restoring or even improving and it's also an iconic fight in the backer beta history. I think this is important.

[Captain Shrek]

I would rather have it gone. I want meanignful encounters, not trash mobs. Personalyl I have nothing against difficulty. I just hate wasting time fighting crap. This is one of the reasons that I can not just replay IWDs and NWN OC.

 

The main beetle encounter is not a trash mob encounter really, it's better than all the other fights on the map. I think it's definitely worth restoring or even improving and it's also an iconic fight in the backer beta history. I think this is important.

 

 

Hmm.

 

In what way is it better? The beetles are practically teleporting and bloated. There is no story. There is only a "historical" reason that they gave BBs a reason to complain about how hard the combat was.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Captain Shrek

[Sensuki]

Who cares, it's the most fun encounter in the whole exterior. Every other encounter is trash in comparison, except for the Wyrm Hunter bunch, but they are a push over as well. 

 

Teleporting appears to be fixed now too.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Sensuki

[Captain Shrek]

Dude, you put so much effort into this game critique. How can you so easily dismiss the encounter design with "who cares."?. I agree that mechanics is one essential aspect of gameplay, but the other more important one is Encounter design. They both need attention. I can guarantee you that even with as broken a combat an NWN2/NWN you can actually have a good game as long as you design the encounters right. The BG mage battles are a proof of the idea.

 

If anything, OE should try to reproduce those instances than concentrating on balancing trash mob encoutners.

[Sensuki]

The encounter was fun which is first and foremost the most important thing. That's the reason it should be kept, because every other encounter on the map kinda sucks.

 

Removing the best encounter = does not compute.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Sensuki

[Uomoz]

Is it ok if I wholeheartedly disagree with the core idea in this topic? I much prefer the current layout and I think the old encounter was kind of lame/unfun. Also single encounter's layout is hardly worth giving feedback about, since it only applies to the little area that the beta is in. A topic about encounter structure, for general feedback, would be way more useful than topics liek this.

[Captain Shrek]

I think you are conflicted here.

 

It was not a fun encoutner at all. It was just the hardest one of them (I think). Replacing that with a non trash hard encounter should still be 'fun'. Or even better, turn the beetles encounter into a non trash encounter with a story to them. That would satisfy your yearn for the elder days and removal of trash.

[Sensuki]

If you didn't notice this is a topic about encounter structure. The original layout was too cluttered and they needed to space them out more. However there was no reason to remove the big beetle mob that wiped everyone because it was too hard, that's just lame IMO.

 

Sure they could add in another hard encounter, but why not just make it a beetle encounter. You could give it loot, add dead bodies of adventurer's to represent dead backers - all the fun stuff. Add in a boss Adra beetle even.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Sensuki

[Hiro Protagonist II]

I would say the party of adventurers at the Dragon egg is the best encounter on the map. While the beetle battle was a part of the beta and there are many stories to be told about it, I prefer not to waste time on encounters that don't make sense with the setting, story, or anything else. The villagers talk about bandits nearby and yet there's beetles on the road? Change the story or change the encounter. Also, I don't want the maps to be crammed with encounters. I want to be able to move around the maps like BG1. The map is small enough as it is without tripping over random beetles every few metres.

[Uomoz]

Hiro is right, for once :D

 

@Sensuki, it is about encounter layout, but not general. It's simply a request to edit a single encounter in a game that will have hundreds of them. In the grand scheme of things, very little impactful compared to topics like attributes or skill balance.

[Starwars]

I'm happy with the changes. I'd rather they buff some of the other encounters more around in the map. Think it felt weird to have the most challenging fight in your face as you enter the area and then the others being a cakewalk in comparison.

 

I think the sheer number of beetles really made the whole area feel cramped.

 

But yeah, buff some of the other encounters instead to bring up the difficulty. 

[Karkarov]

I think you are letting your personal attachment what with the while Sensuki Versus the beetles series get the better of you here.  It isn't that big a deal and I suspect most are happy with the change.  I am fine either way.

[Sensuki]

The whole area is now ridiculously easy with underpowered gear. I did get wiped by one single summoned Wind Blight though, but every other creature was pretty bad.

[Uomoz]

I think everything is kind of terribly weak right now, it's not about encounter layout. Game needs to be balanced back after the attribute system change, that's about it.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Uomoz

[Fiebras]

You want more Beetles in the Beetle Encounter?

 

What a casual.

 

Real hardcore gamers demand that Hard dificulties add no less that 5 hasted Ogres with the poison weapon ability per encounter.

 

When Ogres are already part of the normal Encounter, hardcore gamerd demand they be replaced with Dragons.

 

 

Thug life.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Fiebras

[Ashen Rohk]

I usually agree with most things Sensuki says, but I'm not with you on the beetles. The poison effect was waaaay too powerful and I didn't find them as fun as opposed to some of the other fights in the map. The boost to having three wood beetles at the north exit of the map after main beetle encounter on normal is beyond unnecessary - it's just overpowered trash with a huge condition hit.

 

I much preferred the combo of spiders inside the cave, having to deal with multiple effects at the same time.

[Sensuki]

Poison has been nerfed.

[Namutree]

I think the beetles are perfect the way they are, but the wyrm hunter party should be stronger. Also, I feel the Ogre should be stronger.

 

That tends to be the theme for me. Enemies like the beetles & lions should be easy, but special enemies should be challenging.

[Sensuki]

Boring and Bombardier beetles in Icewind Dale 1 were more challenging than the beetles currently are.

[IndiraLightfoot]

I miss the beetles battle, but I approve of it being moved in the final product. I'd love to see a wilderness with fewer, but more challenging encounters (a bit like BG1). Hopefully, there is a place for those cool beetles, and I'd be darned if not one of them stone beetles will drop:

Suki-Sen

 

A golden magical amulet with three gold stars engraved

 

+1 to Resolve

 

Edited September 30, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot

[Sensuki]

I also enjoy sparser more BG1 style encounters, I just think that particular array of beetles should be one of them.