Torment: Tides of Numero Uno

[Elerond]

 

The Last Castoff actually finds that being a Castoff is a relatively mundane thing,

 

 

One of your potential companions (and probably the strongest one thus far, in my opinion) is a fellow Castoff, for one thing

,

 

you find one unceremoniously killed in a building collapse as a result of freak circumstance (without anyone batting an eye on top of that), and you learn that though there are probably a few hundred in the Ninth World, given that it's established that it's possible to cross over parallel realities, traverse interstellar distances fairly trivially, and even  travel to different dimensions they might number in the millions. I think that serves as a driving force for the Last Castoff to make his or her legacy and answer the question of "What does one life matter?"

 

Now personally I didn't se this really reinforced in the beta due to all of the handholding, signposting and the fact that almost everyone treated you as special and opened up automatically, without wanting something in return or having a motivation. Now compare this to Torment where everyone was either treating you differently because of personal reasons or because it was in tehir interest to do so, and if not just ignoring or asking you to go away. This helped reinforce that though Nameless is only special because this is a personal story, and because of all the weirdness of the planes, not many are interested or impressed by this. In fact they are usually just wary, sensing doom and larger forces at play like Annah.

 

Everybody in beta (or at least most) that offer you any sort help actually want something from you. And this becomes especially clear if you play with nano that has mind reading ability, And there seems to be clear motivations for all characters that are much easier to find out if you have said mind reading ability. 

[Nonek]

Oh what did the town greeter/infodumper for Sagus Cliffs want? As I said I really don't mind if people have motivations but the standard form of interaction should be exactly what one has in Torment, which is usually excuse me i'm busy or a variance of that, rather than an infodump. Or stop looking at the rat i'm eating, are you a waiter at the Gathering Dust etc.

 

The whole place seems far too friendly.

 

Edit: Keyboards and big hands and fingers do not mesh.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Nonek

[Elerond]

Oh what did the town greeter/infodumper for Sagus Cliffs want? As I said I really don't mind if people have motivations but the standard form of interaction should be exactly what one has in Torment, which is usually excuse me i'm busy or a variance of that, rather than an infodump. Or stop looking at the rat i'm eating, are you a waiter at the Gathering Dust etc.

 

The whole place seems far too friendly.

 

Edit: Keyboards and big hands and fingers do not mesh.

 

If you mean that boy, he was looking escaping somebody and looking his friend

 

But I believe that most stuff related to him has been cut from beta or not yet implemented. Of course it is always possible that they will not do anything more with him, but those lines that you learn with mind read would imply that there is at least bit more planned for him.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Elerond

[Nonek]

So instead of looking for his friend or running further he spends ten minutes mouthing exposition, which is my point really.

 

Edit: Appreciate the Nano tip however, have to roll one up when the beta's a little more stable.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Nonek

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I've been on a blackout on this for months, how is it looking at the moment?

[Gromnir]

 

Oh what did the town greeter/infodumper for Sagus Cliffs want? As I said I really don't mind if people have motivations but the standard form of interaction should be exactly what one has in Torment, which is usually excuse me i'm busy or a variance of that, rather than an infodump. Or stop looking at the rat i'm eating, are you a waiter at the Gathering Dust etc.

 

The whole place seems far too friendly.

 

Edit: Keyboards and big hands and fingers do not mesh.

 

If you mean that boy, he was looking escaping somebody and looking his friend

 

But I believe that most stuff related to him has been cut from beta or not yet implemented. Of course it is always possible that they will not do anything more with him, but those lines that you learn with mind read would imply that there is at least bit more planned for him.

 

you gotta understand that 'cause ps:t is such a sacred cow to some folks that you will not get genuine and honest discussion.  too much hand holding and signposting is the flaws o' torment compared to ps:t?  point out that ps:t did as much/more hand holding will avail you not.  is no longer the degree o' hand holding that is the sin, but the motivations o' the helpers that distinguish torment from ps:t... even if such ps:t motivations were not revealed til end game or were depending on inference rather than writer contribution.

 

is many games that spark this kinda reaction.  try and discuss balance issues with a true believer fallout fan.  discuss some o' the ridiculous plot holes with a true believer bg fan. am not understanding such game fascination, but is a phenomenon common to crpgs in particular.  

 

you managed to get to a point where the complaint is no longer that torment did more hand holding and signposting but rather that subjective appreciation o' motivations makes ps:t's significant signposting and handholding qualitative different.  call it a win.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Gromnir]

I've been on a blackout on this for months, how is it looking at the moment?

not much consensus save on a few points: 

 

is buggy as a beta would be expected to be.

 

combat needs work.

 

...

 

beyond that, you is gonna get much disagreement.  the protagonist appearance can be customized only through gear and choice of sex, which disappoints most folks, if for different reasons.  similarly, some folks are disappointed with absence o' visual uniqueness o' the joinable companions. some says torment is too much like ps:t.  other folks says torment is not near enough like ps:t.  the game appears to be highly responsive to your character development choices such that you will get different dialogue options if you built your character different.  the thing is, folks disagree as to whether those additional and different choices is meaningful.  some folks like where story seems to be going. others is disappointed.  is not dark or grim enough?  is too easy?  the companions is too sjw (am not joking, that is a serious complaint we seen 'cause there were no obvious caucasian male joinable thus far.) is...

 

too early for us to see much consensus.  our feel regarding a general overall impression is that most testers seems to be somewhere between grudging optimistic and optimistic.  is few folks overjoyed, but is also few who loathe the beta thus far.

 

*shrug*

 

sorry we can't give more insight insofar as consensus on the good, bad and the ugly o' torment... save that combat need alotta work, and is predictable buggy.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Gfted1]

Can you make a white male protagonist?

[BruceVC]

Can you make a white male protagonist?

Gfted1 ....come now. This is a SJ forum, why would you insult people by allowing them to create a white, male protagonist?

 

You remember how we all grapple with white guilt....we NEVER want to be reminded about our race 

[Elerond]

Can you make a white male protagonist?

 

You can't, white males are extinct (this is also true to every other skin-color/ethnicity - gender combination that exist today). 

 

Although some could argue that main protagonist look quite bit like white male/female

[BruceVC]

 

Can you make a white male protagonist?

 

You can't, white males are extinct (this is also true to every other skin-color/ethnicity - gender combination that exist today). 

 

Although some could argue that main protagonist look quite bit like white male/female

 

Are you being serious ? I have to be honest I don't consider you as someone  who jokes a lot ....

 

Why would they make white, males extinct ?

[Gromnir]

 

 

Can you make a white male protagonist?

 

You can't, white males are extinct (this is also true to every other skin-color/ethnicity - gender combination that exist today). 

 

Although some could argue that main protagonist look quite bit like white male/female

 

Are you being serious ? I have to be honest I don't consider you as someone  who jokes a lot ....

 

Why would they make white, males extinct ?

 

torment is set a billion (or some such silliness) years in future. "caucasian" is therefore meaningless.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited January 25, 2016 by Gromnir

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

Can you make a white male protagonist?

 

You can't, white males are extinct (this is also true to every other skin-color/ethnicity - gender combination that exist today). 

 

Although some could argue that main protagonist look quite bit like white male/female

 

Are you being serious ? I have to be honest I don't consider you as someone  who jokes a lot ....

 

Why would they make white, males extinct ?

 

torment is set a billion (or some such silliness) years in future. "caucasian" is therefore meaningless.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Gromnir you dont think thats racist?

 

Think about what they suggesting.....that in a Billion years white people would be extinct ?

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

Why would they make white, males extinct ?

 

torment is set a billion (or some such silliness) years in future. "caucasian" is therefore meaningless.

 

 

Basically this. On Numenera, a billion years' worth of evolution, purposeful genetic tampering and changes even weirder in origin mean that the residents simply don't map to current racial phenotypes. On the other hand, you can totally be a blue space babe (well, you can't, since this is a CRPG with a semi-fixed protagonist, but in the tabletop version, you can).

 

I think it's pretty clever.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

Why would they make white, males extinct ?

 

torment is set a billion (or some such silliness) years in future. "caucasian" is therefore meaningless.

 

 

Basically this. On Numenera, a billion years' worth of evolution, purposeful genetic tampering and changes even weirder in origin mean that the residents simply don't map to current racial phenotypes. On the other hand, you can totally be a blue space babe (well, you can't, since this is a CRPG with a semi-fixed protagonist, but in the tabletop version, you can).

 

I think it's pretty clever.

 

Okay lets be serious now ....I didn't realize you have played the tabletop game. What is it like.,.,..how many monsters are there?

[ManifestedISO]

In a billion years' time at the current rate, forum server time will exceed the current six minutes to be two billion years in the future ... when will the forward spiral end?! 

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

Okay lets be serious now ....I didn't realize you have played the tabletop game. What is it like.,.,..how many monsters are there?

 

 

...Define "monster"?

[BruceVC]

 

 

Okay lets be serious now ....I didn't realize you have played the tabletop game. What is it like.,.,..how many monsters are there?

 

 

...Define "monster"?

 

Like D&D ...a bestiary basically. Beholders, Wyverns ....different beasts 

[Elerond]

 

 

 

Why would they make white, males extinct ?

torment is set a billion (or some such silliness) years in future. "caucasian" is therefore meaningless.

 

 

Basically this. On Numenera, a billion years' worth of evolution, purposeful genetic tampering and changes even weirder in origin mean that the residents simply don't map to current racial phenotypes. On the other hand, you can totally be a blue space babe (well, you can't, since this is a CRPG with a semi-fixed protagonist, but in the tabletop version, you can).

 

I think it's pretty clever.

 

Okay lets be serious now ....I didn't realize you have played the tabletop game. What is it like.,.,..how many monsters are there?

 

 

There are rules 45 different creatures in core rule book, but there are dozes accessory books that bring lots more. And T:ToN set in bit different section than tabletop game and it brings more new creatures with it.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Elerond

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

Why would they make white, males extinct ?

torment is set a billion (or some such silliness) years in future. "caucasian" is therefore meaningless.

 

 

Basically this. On Numenera, a billion years' worth of evolution, purposeful genetic tampering and changes even weirder in origin mean that the residents simply don't map to current racial phenotypes. On the other hand, you can totally be a blue space babe (well, you can't, since this is a CRPG with a semi-fixed protagonist, but in the tabletop version, you can).

 

I think it's pretty clever.

 

Okay lets be serious now ....I didn't realize you have played the tabletop game. What is it like.,.,..how many monsters are there?

 

 

There are rules 45 different creatures in core rule book, but there are dozes accessory books that bring lots more. And T:ToN set in bit different section than tabletop game and it brings more new creatures with it.

 

That sounds awesome ....I funded this game but I have been avoiding reading anything about it 

 

Do you think I should learn the rules from the core book before playing the game?

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

 

Okay lets be serious now ....I didn't realize you have played the tabletop game. What is it like.,.,..how many monsters are there?

 

 

...Define "monster"?

 

Like D&D ...a bestiary basically. Beholders, Wyverns ....different beasts 

 

 

Well the bestiary lists about 160-ish creatures. None of them are particularly like beholders or wyverns, though.

[Elerond]

That sounds awesome ....I funded this game but I have been avoiding reading anything about it 

 

Do you think I should learn the rules from the core book before playing the game?

 

I would say that it would help you understand several concepts that game uses, even though it isn't one-to-one copy of table top rules, but it is close enough.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Elerond

[Gromnir]

bruce,

 

as odd as it sounds, this is one case where we would recommend wikis or similar such.  find a source that gives you broad stroke outline of the setting and the mechanics, but don't delve too much.  torment does a few things different, and that ain't necessarily bad.  nevertheless, there is a tendency to favor source material if that is how you learned of mechanics and rules... 'least that is our experience.

 

unless you is serious about playing pnp, just use wiki.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Nonek]

I've been on a blackout on this for months, how is it looking at the moment?

 

It's shaping up to be a good game I think but it hasn't got the edge or atmosphere that Torment nailed down, and unfortunately there is too much handholding, signposting and a far too friendly and helpful populace in Sagus Cliffs, who have no reason to be helpful and who treat the protagonist far too much like a special Bioware main character for no reason whatsoever. The setting thus has far less mystery and tension, and there is less of the questioning and trying to figure out ones situation as you are led from point to point by interest and intrigue, this is by far its most egregious issue and i'd say this needs some real work on it. The protagonist is also probably stylistically the most boring part of the game, and the companions so far are equally drear and dull, which stands out in marked contrast to Torments menagerie of likeable rogues, however this seems to be a concious decision though for the life of me I can't figure out the reasoning for it.

 

Obviously beta is beta at the moment and there are a host of problems, and missing fuctionality, so i'll not mention any of these.

 

All told i'm not looking at this as a spiritual successor to Torment as that seems to have somewhat eluded the design team so far, but as a stand alone game i'm quite confident it will be fair to good. It needs a lot of work and retuning, which i'm quite surprised by considering how much time has passed since the Kickstarter, but Mr Fargo has wisely not specified a date in 2016 when it will be out so has almost a full year to tweak and tinker.

 

Based on the beta i'd say wait and see.

 

Edit: Oh also worth mentioning that the beta areas has hit it for six when it comes to choice, consequence and reactivity, obviously I don't know whether this persists but it gives a very good first impression.

Edited January 26, 2016 by Nonek

[BruceVC]

bruce,

 

as odd as it sounds, this is one case where we would recommend wikis or similar such.  find a source that gives you broad stroke outline of the setting and the mechanics, but don't delve too much.  torment does a few things different, and that ain't necessarily bad.  nevertheless, there is a tendency to favor source material if that is how you learned of mechanics and rules... 'least that is our experience.

 

unless you is serious about playing pnp, just use wiki.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Good idea, this is actually how I normally play a game like this

 

If I used the core rules then I would over-analyze the game and also its more exciting this way

 

 

 

 

That sounds awesome ....I funded this game but I have been avoiding reading anything about it 

 

Do you think I should learn the rules from the core book before playing the game?

 

I would say that it would help you understand several concepts that game uses, even though it isn't one-to-one copy of table top rules, but it is close enough.

 

 

 Thanks Elerond but Gromnirs suggested is ideal for me