The Beginning of the End of ISIS?

[obyknven]

 

As predicted US use airstrikes against ISIS as covering for war against Syria.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/air-strikes-on-islamic-state-target-syrias-largest-gas-plant/story-e6frg6so-1227073500147?nk=f4a0392d7d63ec3e51198cdef1f57af6

 

Air strikes on Islamic State target Syria’s largest gas plant

In other words they do want destroy Syrian property and important Syrian economical structures. The Terror against civilian objects It's usual  strategy of NATO (and his predecessors - during WW2 they bombed peaceful German towns instead of military objects by same way), we see many examples of this during war in Serbia, Iraq and Libya. 

 

As usual your understanding of these events is horribly misinformed

 

ISIS controls certain energy resources in Syria, the airstrikes are designed to weaken and destroy ISIS ability to generate revenue and wage war. Therefore obviously this gas plant is a legitimate target as by destroying this you reduce the military effectiveness of ISIS as they have less money to fund there operations

 

Wat? How ISIS can use this gas plant if they're don't have ports and surrounded by hostile countries from all sides? What profit they can have from this if they can't sell this gas to somewhere? If they don't have profit from this how they can be weakened by destruction of this plant?

[Longknife]

 

 

You forget that it was america who saved Russia in 1945

 

This is like saying we saved Mike Tyson from Jersey Shore's Snookie. Russia did NOT need saving.

Pretty much the only thing that put the USA on par with the strength of Russia at that time was a really big ****ing bomb and the USA's willingness to utilize it. It's commonly accepted Russia could've overtaken Germany with relative ease and then swallowed all of Europe with it, if it wanted. They were also the single-most pivotal and important country in the Nazi defeat.

I agree with almost all of this. I don't believe that the Soviet Union could have swallowed all of Europe, but the rest is definitely true. Our biggest contribution to the war was our victory over Japan. Not that we didn't help with Germany, but we weren't number 1 or even needed in that department.

  

"It's commonly accepted Russia could've overtaken Germany with relative ease and then swallowed all of Europe with it, if it wanted."

 

Doubtful.

Let me clarify that by no means did I mean it'd be a simple endeavor. It could even potentially harm Russia more than it helped them, rendering it a phyrric victory. I simply named it as a hypothetical because....an example of how Russia needed "help" was the number of casualties they faced. To that....? You've no idea how big Russia is. The entire conflict between Russia and Germany absolutely dwarfed the combined conflicts within the western front. Russia was an absolute beast at that time. Yes they suffered heavy losses, yes they suffered economic problems, but would it have been a big, BIIIG ****ing problem for Europe had Russia decided it wants Europe's everything? Oh yes.

[Agiel]

 

Ros, I think that's a bit simplistic. War's aren't fought with just men. And effort isn't measured in just war graves.

 

The United States and Great Britain both donated equipment which the USSR couldn't build at the start of the war. Trucks, tanks and... radios.

 

I don't mean to diminish Russia's war dead, don't confuse a dramatic notion - that the USSR was some mighty colossus - with the truth - that the USSR was a viscid mass of confusion fear and blood. A blind terrified animal that could not even bring itself to acknowledge the sacrifices of its own returned PoWs, let alone filthy capitalist assistance.

 

 

This a thousand times.

 

Could the Soviet Union have defeated the Germans without the West's assistance? I would go so far as to say it was quite likely, yes. However, how many more would have perished were it not for the P-39 Airacobra's the US donated to the USSR to give the Soviets valuable air cover after their air force was decimated in the initial stages of Barbarossa? How many more would have died were it not for radios that made their revolutionary Deep Battle doctrine possible? How many more lives would it cost, and months if not years would it take without the contribution of jeeps, trucks, and personnel carriers to turn the Red Army into a truly mechanised armed force? In fact, the most favoured chariot of the war-winning Katyusha rocket artillery pieces was the Studebaker 6 and a Half Ton truck (the Soviets found it so dependable that they even made the company honorary Heroes of the Soviet Union). To say nothing of the not insignificant contribution of combat rations (however distasteful C-rations are, calories are calories) medical supplies.

 

Sure they could have done it without Lend-Lease, but they probably wouldn't have been the ones to put foreign flag atop the Reichstag.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Agiel

[Longknife]

It's hypocrisy at its highest form and kind of reminds me of this video

....why are you linking a video that's blatant propaganda...?

 

Go fact check this. I found a grand total of two technologies from that entire video that Israel actually has a claim to. (The farming drip irrigation thingy or whatever and that camera pill you can swallow) There's even an entire section that's essentially "we donated money to help with these disaster relief efforts (along with 99% of the rest of the world) and thus we are fully and solely responsible for saving those lives." And hell, the video doesn't even address it's own point: boycotting =/= you cannot utilize things invented by a country, it means don't buy from them. If we used the logic from that video, anyone who boycotts the USA cannot use light bulbs because light bulbs were invented in the USA. No, factories to make light bulbs now exist all over the world; we'd only need boycott the ones manufactured within the USA. Here Israel is claiming credit for many technologies they CLAIM to have invented but didn't, then saying no one is allowed to use those FOREVER without Israeli consent.

 

 

Furthermore, having STUDIED economics and not just having believed the first youtube video to give me an onslaught of first claims, you wanna know the REAL countries you'd suffer from boycotting...? China, Germany. These two companies export more goods than anyone (mind you my knowledge on this is dated a few years, haven't checked in), so these two would be the most difficult to boycott.

 

Israel claiming credit for all of that stuff...? In all honesty, if innocent Israeli lives weren't on the line and I were some kind of world dictator, I'd be tempted to boycott Israel just to spite that video and watch their stupid asses (<---- again speaking hypothetically, as realistically no an entire nation doesn't deserve this name on behalf of one idiot with a video making bold inaccurate and self-serving claims) starve to death or get immediately killed and swallowed by the rest of the Middle East.

 

 

EDIT: sorry, I would've tabbed out to fact check this before, but apples wonderful tablet tech deletes my post if I do so half the time. Thanks Apple for focusing more on making a flashy OS and UI rather than a practical one. You piece of ****.

 

Anyways: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_exports

 

Germany has fallen behind a tad, though the EU as a collective have not. Yes, Germany is ****ing scary insane when you consider their relative size and how much they export. Believe it or not, Germany was #1 until about 2009, meaning 83 million Germans were producing and exporting more goods than about 2 billion Chinese. There's a reason the old saying exists: "Normal people work to live, Germans live to work." And living here I can promise you, yes the culture is just as uptight and anal retentive as you'd expect from those numbers. :D

 

If you want to locate your precious Israel with their bold claims of responsibility for all the great products we use, you'll find them at the ever-so-important ranking of 51st largest exporter in the world. WOW! How could we survive without them!?

 

Bonus points for being two ranks lower than Iran.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Longknife

[obyknven]

 

 

You forget that it was america who saved Russia in 1945

 

First up - props for having the stamina to deal with this.. but US saving Russia.. From what? Germany? 

We were so lucky that those two states decided to murder each other, if not then Europe would have been a dictatorship, facist or communist...

 

America didn't win this war, they swept up the remains. What they did do however was win the postwar cleanup, the Marshall aid etc was a genius move and the treatment of Germany was really inspiring - and to many in Europe the reason why we still rally behind 'em.

 

But saying that America saved Russia is a joke, they broke Germany's back almost completely on their own. Luckily for us they they almost broke their own back in the effort and were weakened enough not to take us on afterwards.

 

 

Ros, I think that's a bit simplistic. War's aren't fought with just men. And effort isn't measured in just war graves.

 

The United States and Great Britain both donated equipment which the USSR couldn't build at the start of the war. Trucks, tanks and... radios.

 

I don't mean to diminish Russia's war dead, don't confuse a dramatic notion - that the USSR was some mighty colossus - with the truth - that the USSR was a viscid mass of confusion fear and blood. A blind terrified animal that could not even bring itself to acknowledge the sacrifices of its own returned PoWs, let alone filthy capitalist assistance.

 

Offtop mode on:

USSR during WW2:

Trucks

Out of total 205,000 trucks produced, 150,400 were consumed by the military. So, on 22.6.41 Red Army had around 270,000 trucks, and received another 745,000 during the war. Out of these, 150,000 were new domestic production, 221,500 trucks drafted from the industry and agriculture sectors, 60,600 captured enemy's trucks and 312,600 lend-lease trucks.

 

312,600 lend-lease trucks it's about 30 % of trucks  used by Red army, but if we consider all USSR trucks (852 000 in 1941 + 745,000 received during the war ) it's only 19%. It's sighnificant but not critical numbers.

 

Tanks

During WW2 USSR produce 89 701 tanks and other armored vehicles, meanwhile they imported 15 550 armored vehicles. It's  around 14% if we consider only newly produced vehicles, or 12 % if we add 23106 Red army  vehicles in begining of war also. Not sighnificant aid really.

 

Radio - ok, this is sighnificant help.

Don't find info about pre-war quantity of radio in USSR and about production during wartime, but...

Moskow factory  № 203 has monopoly on production of radios for tanks and planes. This factory normally produce of 400 radios per month in pre-war time. Other factories produce other types of radios also.

During 1941-1943 years Soviets lose 71 000 radios in battles. Meanwhile  Lend-Lease was delivered only 35,800 radio stations during all wartime. It's  looks like help from allies is not too sighnificant  again.

 

Other important thing - Lend-Lease begin working only after Soviet victories over Wermacht.

 

Speaking about the role of the Lend-Lease to the Soviet victory, do not forget about two points. First, the vast majority of machinery, equipment and supplies were delivered to the USSR in the years 1943-1945. That is, after the turning point in the war. For example, in 1941, under the Lend-Lease was delivered goods worth about $ 100 million, which represents less than 1% of the total supply. In 1942, the percentage was 27.6. Thus, more than 70% of Lend-Lease occurred in 1943-1945, and in the worst of the USSR during the war Allied aid was not too noticeable. As an example, - cars: they are on April 30, 1944 was delivered just 215,000 pieces. That is more than half of the lend-lease vehicles were delivered to the Soviet Union in the last year of the war. Secondly, not all delivered under the Lend-Lease equipment was used by the Army and Navy. For example, out of 202 set in the Soviet torpedo boats, 118 and did not have to take part in the hostilities of the Great Patriotic War, as they were given in service after graduation. All 26 frigates also received the USSR went into operation in the summer of 1945. A similar situation was observed with other types of equipment.

 

Offtop mode off:

[Erez]

You fail to miss the point regarding when this help was delivered and focus only on the total %, you fail to take under consideration the quality of the trucks given freely from the US in comparison to the trucks taken from agriculture. more so the trucks taken as war loot were only taken after Russia has started to beat the German in the east front. None of this would have happened without the US help which was given to Russia at a critical point of the war and managed to turn the tide.

Without the us help both Britian and Russia would have fallen before a single soldier of the us landed in North Africa and started swinging the tide. 

 

Claiming that Russia and  the UK would have survived without the us in world war 2 is delusional, they simply would not have the tools to finish the job on their own to compete with the superior German industry.  The US may or may no have lost in case of an attempted german invasion, the us never had a risk of being invaded in the 20 century, bring the required amount of forces abroad and maintaining the required supply line is a tremendous effort and therefor The Us was much more secure in comparison.

[Erez]

 

It's hypocrisy at its highest form and kind of reminds me of this video

....why are you linking a video that's blatant propaganda...?

 

Go fact check this. I found a grand total of two technologies from that entire video that Israel actually has a claim to. (The farming drip irrigation thingy or whatever and that camera pill you can swallow) There's even an entire section that's essentially "we donated money to help with these disaster relief efforts (along with 99% of the rest of the world) and thus we are fully and solely responsible for saving those lives." And hell, the video doesn't even address it's own point: boycotting =/= you cannot utilize things invented by a country, it means don't buy from them. If we used the logic from that video, anyone who boycotts the USA cannot use light bulbs because light bulbs were invented in the USA. No, factories to make light bulbs now exist all over the world; we'd only need boycott the ones manufactured within the USA. Here Israel is claiming credit for many technologies they CLAIM to have invented but didn't, then saying no one is allowed to use those FOREVER without Israeli consent.

 

 

Furthermore, having STUDIED economics and not just having believed the first youtube video to give me an onslaught of first claims, you wanna know the REAL countries you'd suffer from boycotting...? China, Germany. These two companies export more goods than anyone (mind you my knowledge on this is dated a few years, haven't checked in), so these two would be the most difficult to boycott.

 

Israel claiming credit for all of that stuff...? In all honesty, if innocent Israeli lives weren't on the line and I were some kind of world dictator, I'd be tempted to boycott Israel just to spite that video and watch their stupid asses (<---- again speaking hypothetically, as realistically no an entire nation doesn't deserve this name on behalf of one idiot with a video making bold inaccurate and self-serving claims) starve to death or get immediately killed and swallowed by the rest of the Middle East.

 

 

EDIT: sorry, I would've tabbed out to fact check this before, but apples wonderful tablet tech deletes my post if I do so half the time. Thanks Apple for focusing more on making a flashy OS and UI rather than a practical one. You piece of ****.

 

Anyways: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_exports

 

Germany has fallen behind a tad, though the EU as a collective have not. Yes, Germany is ****ing scary insane when you consider their relative size and how much they export. Believe it or not, Germany was #1 until about 2009, meaning 83 million Germans were producing and exporting more goods than about 2 billion Chinese. There's a reason the old saying exists: "Normal people work to live, Germans live to work." And living here I can promise you, yes the culture is just as uptight and anal retentive as you'd expect from those numbers. :D

 

If you want to locate your precious Israel with their bold claims of responsibility for all the great products we use, you'll find them at the ever-so-important ranking of 51st largest exporter in the world. WOW! How could we survive without them!?

 

Bonus points for being two ranks lower than Iran.

 

 

You obviously missed the point of this video, I am not going to debate what was or what wasn't invented in israel, For its size. the jewish population in Israel have invented many new inventions that benefit people all across the world. This is a fact. 

 

The purpose of this video was to show the hypocrisy people show regarding US foreign policies or Foreign policies in general, one one hand people love to enjoy the goods and benefits of these actions, on the other hands they love the feeling of righteousness whenever they shower upon others their 'morale' superiority. Its easy to be morale superior when you aren't the one paying the bill or dealing with the consequences Your distasteful post, where you claim you might end up doing just for spite.

 

And Just for reference, there is a big different between developed and exported, the video mostly regards technologies being developed in Israel, your remark regarding Israel export scale is irrelevant. Most of China export industry is based on products developed in other countries and manufactured in China.

And yes, if you really want to boycott US, dont buy light bulbs or work, befriend or buy items from people who use lightbulbs,  otherwise your boycott is devoid of any higher morale ground.  

 

The treatment people give The US regarding the ISIS and global affairs is so hypocrite, It makes me wonder the state of video games, Mainly i just blame bioware for it due to their gaming agenda "your choices don't really matter... "

Edited September 30, 2014 by Erez

[Longknife]

 

 

It's hypocrisy at its highest form and kind of reminds me of this video

....why are you linking a video that's blatant propaganda...?

 

Go fact check this. I found a grand total of two technologies from that entire video that Israel actually has a claim to. (The farming drip irrigation thingy or whatever and that camera pill you can swallow) There's even an entire section that's essentially "we donated money to help with these disaster relief efforts (along with 99% of the rest of the world) and thus we are fully and solely responsible for saving those lives." And hell, the video doesn't even address it's own point: boycotting =/= you cannot utilize things invented by a country, it means don't buy from them. If we used the logic from that video, anyone who boycotts the USA cannot use light bulbs because light bulbs were invented in the USA. No, factories to make light bulbs now exist all over the world; we'd only need boycott the ones manufactured within the USA. Here Israel is claiming credit for many technologies they CLAIM to have invented but didn't, then saying no one is allowed to use those FOREVER without Israeli consent.

 

 

Furthermore, having STUDIED economics and not just having believed the first youtube video to give me an onslaught of first claims, you wanna know the REAL countries you'd suffer from boycotting...? China, Germany. These two companies export more goods than anyone (mind you my knowledge on this is dated a few years, haven't checked in), so these two would be the most difficult to boycott.

 

Israel claiming credit for all of that stuff...? In all honesty, if innocent Israeli lives weren't on the line and I were some kind of world dictator, I'd be tempted to boycott Israel just to spite that video and watch their stupid asses (<---- again speaking hypothetically, as realistically no an entire nation doesn't deserve this name on behalf of one idiot with a video making bold inaccurate and self-serving claims) starve to death or get immediately killed and swallowed by the rest of the Middle East.

 

 

EDIT: sorry, I would've tabbed out to fact check this before, but apples wonderful tablet tech deletes my post if I do so half the time. Thanks Apple for focusing more on making a flashy OS and UI rather than a practical one. You piece of ****.

 

Anyways: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_exports

 

Germany has fallen behind a tad, though the EU as a collective have not. Yes, Germany is ****ing scary insane when you consider their relative size and how much they export. Believe it or not, Germany was #1 until about 2009, meaning 83 million Germans were producing and exporting more goods than about 2 billion Chinese. There's a reason the old saying exists: "Normal people work to live, Germans live to work." And living here I can promise you, yes the culture is just as uptight and anal retentive as you'd expect from those numbers. :D

 

If you want to locate your precious Israel with their bold claims of responsibility for all the great products we use, you'll find them at the ever-so-important ranking of 51st largest exporter in the world. WOW! How could we survive without them!?

 

Bonus points for being two ranks lower than Iran.

 

 

You obviously missed the point of this video, I am not going to debate what was or what wasn't invented in israel, For its size. the jewish population in Israel have invented many new inventions that benefit people all across the world. This is a fact. 

 

The purpose of this video was to show the hypocrisy people show regarding US foreign policies or Foreign policies in general, one one hand people love to enjoy the goods and benefits of these actions, on the other hands they love the feeling of righteousness whenever they shower upon others their 'morale' superiority. Its easy to be morale superior when you aren't the one paying the bill or dealing with the consequences Your distasteful post, where you claim you might end up doing just for spite.

 

And Just for reference, there is a big different between developed and exported, the video mostly regards technologies being developed in Israel, your remark regarding Israel export scale is irrelevant. Most of China export industry is based on products developed in other countries and manufactured in China.

And yes, if you really want to boycott US, dont buy light bulbs or work, befriend or buy items from people who use lightbulbs,  otherwise your boycott is devoid of any higher morale ground.  

 

The treatment people give The US regarding the ISIS and global affairs is so hypocrite, It makes me wonder the state of video games, Mainly i just blame bioware for it due to their gaming agenda "your choices don't really matter... "

 

 

 

You basically completely ignored everything I just said.

 

The vast majority of those things are not created by Israelis.

 

The only two parts of that video that I was able to find and confirm as true are the drip irrigation and the little pill camera. Everything else, from the intel processors to google to the little infant respiratory monitor, is absolute grade-A ****ing bull****.

 

If you'd like to verify any of those claims yourself, by all means try, but it seems very clear to me that the information in the video is largely highly fabricated or COMPLETELY misconstrued. (for completely misconstrued, let's say for example that maybe Israel does now have a company that makes infant respiratory monitors, but are by no means the responsible party for their creation or anywhere CLOSE to being the largest distributor).

 

Likewise:

 

 

one one hand people love to enjoy the goods and benefits of these actions, on the other hands they love the feeling of righteousness whenever they shower upon others their 'morale' superiority. Its easy to be morale superior when you aren't the one paying the bill or dealing with the consequences

 

You do realize that the very bitter irony of this is that a large point of my post was that with that video, Israel (not Israel, but at least the people involved in making that video) is guilty of this? As I said, it's Israel claiming credit for things they didn't actually do. It's Israel claiming to be above other countries and that it doesn't need them, and that a boycott vs. Israel would backfire and hurt anyone else more than it'd hurt Israel. Lolno, it'd hurt Israel. It'd hurt Israel a lot. Just as a sample using one of my own countries:

 

 

 

Germany is Israel's largest trading partner in Europe and Israel's second most important trading partner after the United States. Israeli imports from Germany amount to some USD 2.3 billion annually, while Israel is Germany's fourth largest trading partner in the North Africa/Middle East region

 

 

You are the fourth largest trade partner in the North Africa/Middle East region when referring to the economic giant that is Germany.

 

Israel. Is ****ing. Peanuts. When it comes to trade and innovation, they're small time. Such small time that the claims of that video are nothing short of absurd.

 

 

 

And now you may be reacting by saying "how DARE you downplay the contributions of Israel to the world?!" And rightfully so. I found it quite odd that one of the things Israel IS responsible for that wasn't listed in that video is the friggin' USB drive. Hey, I use that. Thanks Israel.

  But see here's the thing. When you have this video where Israel essentially holds the stance of "we donated some contributions to Hurricane Katrina and therefore if you're alive thanks to aid in that area, you may be alive thanks to Israel. So if you want to boycott Israel, go kill yourself. =)"  The problem with this is 99% of the globe provides aid for such situations. Seriously, go look up any major natural disaster, every company chips in. Hurricane Katrina, Haiti, those earthquakes in China a couple years back, the meltdown in Japan....everyone helps.

  But for Israel to use those contributions not as "hey we helped because we truly care" but rather "hey we helped and therefore claim FULL RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE ENTIRETY OF THE RELIEF EFFORT and you are therefore forever indebted to us and owe your lives to us..." That's a special kind of immature warped way of thinking that baffles me to think any adult actually finds that mentality acceptable. And more importantly, it downplays the contributions other countries made to the world.

  

 

 If we were REALLY to look at contributions to relief effort, you know who I think would win? Saudi Arabia. Ever look up international reactions and contributions? I actually have. And I distinctly remember everyone providing a nice $6,000,000 or so USD as aid on average, then you scroll down the list and see somebody donating $300,000,000 and think "LOLWAT," and lo and behold it's Saudi Arabia. Here, a random sample from 5 seconds of Googling: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanitarian_response_to_Typhoon_Haiyan  In the sample Saudi Arabia is not the top dog, but they certainly do have quite the respectable contribution, with the 3rd highest contribution overall, from what I'm seeing. Their contribution is highly disproportionate to the size of their economies relative to the USA and EU (top two donors). Oh, and you can also find Israel included in there, essentially as a footnote, not donating a dime but providing search and rescue teams.

 

And again, you may say "how DARE you downplay the significance of their help!!" Good point!! ......IT SORTA SOUNDS LIKE THE POINT I'M MAKING ABOUT HOW ISRAEL IS DOWNPLAYING THE SIGNIFICANCE OF EVERYONE ELSE AND FLAUNTING AN EGO THE SIZE OF THE SUN! How about that! Funny coincidence, huh?

  Yes, because that's exactly the point. It's very insulting to hear Israel (again just for clarity, not Israel but that video and all of it's supporters) take credit for things they have a very minimal shareholder percentage of. It's very insulting to hear Israel basically pretend those millions of dollar contributions from Saudi Arabia don't exist, or that Google is somehow not an American company created by American innovators. (or if you'd like to be technical, Russia could attempt to claim credit seeing as a co-founder is a russian immigrant to the US)

 

 

 

   Top it all off with the fact that, again, the simple reality is that a boycott vs. Israel would not deny people -ANY- of those technologies listed. In a practical sense, Israel's largest export is electronics and software. Anything outside of those industries, I promise you people won't feel a tickle. And no, Israel is not the only country to export such goods. A good portion of Asia does the exact same, and economies like those seen in the US economy, the Chinese economy and German economy are just absolute beasts, encompassing all of that and more. Israel's economy is literally ~1/24th the size of Germany and the USA.

 

 

 

 

 

  In a nutshell, believing anything in that video and thinking the claims it makes could stand up to reality is nothing short of delusional. But given that you seem all ready to jump on my post about a very specific hypothetical about how I'd boycott Israel IF every citizen of that country held the sentiment and delusion of that video and IF wishing misfortune on that many people for a mistake or ego of theirs weren't, well, ****ing evil....and YET you find it perfectly A-OK that the video literally tells Hurricane Katrina survivors to go kill themselves if they wish to boycott Israel...? Yeah, I can see there's no getting through to you.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Longknife

[Erez]

.

 

The kill yourself satire part refers to if an israeli person saved your life due to donations or israeli help- the video didn't claim that only israel assisted people in disasters worldwide or thats it's even among the highers contributes, like you mentioned before its still  a small country with limited natural resources(up until recently) and many economic obligations due to its surroundings.

 

And yet you still miss the part- its not about how much Israel or the US contriubed to the world, its about how people so quickly dismiss those contributions when it suits their hypocrite. righteous agenda.    

I posted that video to highlight that hypocrite righteousness which made its way to the ISIS debate, and all the ridiculous mucking about how the US is so evil...  If you are a person who lives in a western defined state then I recommend you do a severe house check. 

 

Longknife - your country took main part in the  severe destruction and a death toll close to a 100 million at a time extent of 31 years.  when the big Satan entered your country in 1945 they allowed you to rebuild and return to your powerhouse status - ofcourse it wouldn't have been possibile without the German hard work discipline and strategic planning.  Yes it was in their interest to see Germany restored, they wanted a strong Germany to counter the soviet union. But a person cannot ignore the rehabilitative state of mind which took over and replaced the call for vengeance. Without the US capitalistic ways the western states quality of lives would not be as good as it is today. 

Edited September 30, 2014 by Erez

[Namutree]

 

Longknife - your country took main part in the  severe destruction and a death toll close to a 100 million at a time extent of 31 years.  when the big Satan entered your country in 1945 they allowed you to rebuild and return to your powerhouse status - ofcourse it wouldn't have been possibile without the German hard work discipline and strategic planning.  Yes it was in their interest to see Germany restored, they wanted a strong Germany to counter the soviet union. But a person cannot ignore the rehabilitative state of mind which took over and replaced the call for vengeance. Without the US capitalistic ways the western states quality of lives would not be as good as it is today. 

 

What exactly is your point here? Longknife never seems to have said anything about the US. He wasn't even being critical of Israel. He was merely pointing out the fallacious nonsense of the video. 

[obyknven]

His point is butthurt, it's obvious.

 

....

 

Meanwhile Turkey prepare military forces for invasion into Syrian Kurdistan.

https://news.yahoo.com/turkey-deploys-tanks-border-lawmakers-mull-anti-action-154214785.html

 

Everything as planned.

[Shallow]

 

What exactly is your point here? Longknife never seems to have said anything about the US. He wasn't even being critical of Israel. He was merely pointing out the fallacious nonsense of the video. 

 

Isrealis are sensitive about Isreal, and don't recognize any of its flaws, well established fact.

[Longknife]

 

.

 

The kill yourself satire part refers to if an israeli person saved your life due to donations or israeli help- the video didn't claim that only israel assisted people in disasters worldwide or thats it's even among the highers contributes, like you mentioned before its still  a small country with limited natural resources(up until recently) and many economic obligations due to its surroundings.

 

And yet you still miss the part- its not about how much Israel or the US contriubed to the world, its about how people so quickly dismiss those contributions when it suits their hypocrite. righteous agenda.    

I posted that video to highlight that hypocrite righteousness which made its way to the ISIS debate, and all the ridiculous mucking about how the US is so evil...  If you are a person who lives in a western defined state then I recommend you do a severe house check. 

 

Longknife - your country took main part in the  severe destruction and a death toll close to a 100 million at a time extent of 31 years.  when the big Satan entered your country in 1945 they allowed you to rebuild and return to your powerhouse status - ofcourse it wouldn't have been possibile without the German hard work discipline and strategic planning.  Yes it was in their interest to see Germany restored, they wanted a strong Germany to counter the soviet union. But a person cannot ignore the rehabilitative state of mind which took over and replaced the call for vengeance. Without the US capitalistic ways the western states quality of lives would not be as good as it is today. 

 

 

 

No, it's not about any of that. Because the simple fact of the matter is that Israeli treatment of Palestine and Israeli humanitarian aid and inventions have nothing to do with one another. People aren't hypocrites for speaking out against a war effort they don't support, just because Israel has in some way contributed to their lives. With that same logic, every military that fought the Nazis would have to abstain from using morphine; a Germany discovery. No, just because you don't support Hitler doesn't make you a hypocrite if you likewise enjoy morphine for pain relief post-surgery. And again by the same logic, Russia would be a hypocrite to boycott the USA while also utilizing nukes as a safeguard.

 

The two have nothing to do with each other. To say you disagree with the Israeli government's actions towards Palestine is not to say nothing good ever came from Israel or that all of Israel or monsters. You can see that for yourself when I repeatedly clarify that in actuality only that man is guilty of propaganda, it's just he's acting in such a way that he wishes to (poorly) represent the face of Israel.

 

Again as I recall, Hitler is responsible for the widespread practice of those little reflector thingies we put on the sides of roads to keep people from driving off the road at night, not to mention the Autobahn, or highway system. (he did not make these, he merely led to their widespread usage and support) Are we hypocrites and Nazis for utilizing these...?

[Erez]

 

 

Longknife - your country took main part in the  severe destruction and a death toll close to a 100 million at a time extent of 31 years.  when the big Satan entered your country in 1945 they allowed you to rebuild and return to your powerhouse status - ofcourse it wouldn't have been possibile without the German hard work discipline and strategic planning.  Yes it was in their interest to see Germany restored, they wanted a strong Germany to counter the soviet union. But a person cannot ignore the rehabilitative state of mind which took over and replaced the call for vengeance. Without the US capitalistic ways the western states quality of lives would not be as good as it is today. 

 

What exactly is your point here? Longknife never seems to have said anything about the US. He wasn't even being critical of Israel. He was merely pointing out the fallacious nonsense of the video. 

 

The debate with Longknife - was really about the importance of US in war world 2, Longknife stated that russia would have won against germany on its own and overtaken europe, the evidence however does not support that claim. estabishing that claim is important in order to counter people from russia and europe who joins the iranian train of US=BIG Satan. my debate wasn't about Israel at all, while the Israeli treatment can be relevant to the topic since its also suffers from short term memory problems and giant amounts of hypocrisy like the US treatment - Which is why I brought up that video.

 

this thread was filled with many Anti US statements - which are only due to hidden agendas(or not so hidden). agenda which found fertile ground  in short memory problems and failed rewrite history attempts. 

 

In conclusion the Isis problem is not going away soon nor is The USA the Big Satan. 

 

 

 

Having well meaning, second opinions are all well and nice, the problem with many outside views, is that they are soley concealment for pretentious attitude and blatant hate  rallies - Many of the demonstrations taking place in european countries consisting of mostly muslims and far left people - are very violent in nature. the people behind them don't have good in their heart the same way gandi or doctor martin luther king - those people are easily riled when someone opposite them demonstrate for Israel, when someone speaks for israel in the media he quickly receives death threats. There is also a lot of double politic game going on with some of the critic Israeli groups in eu/un which I will not refer to here, since its something a person must find on his own in order to believe it.

 

The second part of your statement wasin fact very opposite to how israelis behave or think, we are known for not easily accepting anything and doing plenty of questioning.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-22089936 

Edited October 1, 2014 by Erez

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

Longknife - your country took main part in the  severe destruction and a death toll close to a 100 million at a time extent of 31 years.  when the big Satan entered your country in 1945 they allowed you to rebuild and return to your powerhouse status - ofcourse it wouldn't have been possibile without the German hard work discipline and strategic planning.  Yes it was in their interest to see Germany restored, they wanted a strong Germany to counter the soviet union. But a person cannot ignore the rehabilitative state of mind which took over and replaced the call for vengeance. Without the US capitalistic ways the western states quality of lives would not be as good as it is today. 

 

What exactly is your point here? Longknife never seems to have said anything about the US. He wasn't even being critical of Israel. He was merely pointing out the fallacious nonsense of the video. 

 

The debate with Longknife - was really about the importance of US in war world 2, Longknife stated that russia would have won against germany on its own and overtaken europe, the evidence however does not support that claim. estabishing that claim is important in order to counter people from russia and europe who joins the iranian train of US=BIG Satan. my debate wasn't about Israel at all, while the Israeli treatment can be relevant to the topic since its also suffers from short term memory problems and giant amounts of hypocrisy like the US treatment - Which is why I brought up that video.

 

this thread was filled with many Anti US statements - which are only due to hidden agendas(or not so hidden). agenda which found fertile ground  in short memory problems and failed rewrite history attempts. 

 

In conclusion the Isis problem is not going away soon nor is The USA the Big Satan. 

 

 

Its true you can never defeat an ideology through military means, but you can curtail ISIS military effectiveness. And this is the objective at the moment, this will and can happen. The USA and its allies will increase the airstrikes against ISIS and continue to support the Kurds in Iraq that are key as the " boots on the ground". Also the new Iraqi government will start including Iraqi Sunnis in the Iraqi government which will vastly reduce ISIS support in Iraq

 

But despite all this, continued and sustained military attacks in Syria and Iraq  by the military coalition spearheaded by the USA will be largely responsible for effectively destroying the threat of ISIS

Edited October 1, 2014 by BruceVC

[Malcador]

Here's hoping the half-measure approach doesn't backfire.

[BruceVC]

Here's hoping the half-measure approach doesn't backfire.

 

Well if you were Obama what else would you do differently? Why do you think these are half-measures.  For example the USA could send ground troops to Iraq if they really motivated this course of action. But that doesn't make sense from a logistical and historical perspective. I still think its prudent to supply weapons to USA friendly forces, like the Kurds, and use airpower to bomb ISIS, when they can, back to the stone-age

[HoonDing]

They're trying to kill a hornet with a cannon.

[Malcador]

How does it not make logistical sense, exactly ? I imagine the US has some strategic lift ability, and using support and someone else's infantry is a half measure. Granted it's a cheaper alternative and it does look like they are doing something, so not a totally meritless idea. Kurds and other may be friendly, but just handing uncontrolled people weapons is a risk.

 

Wonder if the Iraqi army will ever be worth something, too.

[BruceVC]

How does it not make logistical sense, exactly ? I imagine the US has some strategic lift ability, and using support and someone else's infantry is a half measure. Granted it's a cheaper alternative and it does look like they are doing something, so not a totally meritless idea. Kurds and other may be friendly, but just handing uncontrolled people weapons is a risk.

 

Wonder if the Iraqi army will ever be worth something, too.

 

To actually send USA ground troops to a place like a Iraq for a sustained period of time has huge logistical implications, these include

 

1. Where would they be based?
2. What about daily supplies?
3. What about the USA heavy machinery? Where would it be kept? Considering the fact ISIS is spread through large parts of Iraq
4. Would ground troops now cross the border into Syria? This alone opens another can of worms

But the most obvious point that this is not a good idea is that ISIS and other people will use this as a justification around " how the USA is invading Iraq again"

 

The USA has only just disentangled itself from Iraq and  "boots on the ground " campaign . It doesn't want to go back that route

[Malcador]

Well, they've invaded the place before, should be old hat if they wanted to tangle with ISIS directly. Wouldn't need to go deal with them in Syria in the case they force them back that far, hassle to do so and as long as they stay in Syria, no one will care. Could even use airstrikes to help Assad crush them. But eh, fantasy at this point.

[Zoraptor]

Iraq has said multiple times it will not invite US troops (the 'advisers' that are there already notwithstanding) anyway, so the question of boots on ground is moot for Iraq.

[Namutree]

I really hope the public listens to this speech:

[BruceVC]

Iraq has said multiple times it will not invite US troops (the 'advisers' that are there already notwithstanding) anyway, so the question of boots on ground is moot for Iraq.

 

The fact that Iraq has said they don't want USA troops within there country means nothing, they also said in 2011 when the USA pulled out that it was great  day and that  they would determine there own destiny. Now 3 years later they have needed US assistance to deal with a issue caused primarily by mismanagement of sections of there own population

[obyknven]

http://www.wnd.com/2014/09/russia-threatens-to-retaliate-against-u-s-military/

 

 

The security officials said Russia complained Sunday in quiet talks with United Nations representatives that the Obama administration’s current aerial campaign against Islamic State fighters in Syria is a violation of international agreements regarding control of Syrian airspace.

The officials said Russia warned it could potentially retaliate if U.S. or Arab airstrikes go beyond targeting Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, or ISIS, and instead bomb any Syrian regime targets.

The officials told WND they do not have any information about the seriousness of the Russian threat or whether Moscow meant it would retaliate directly or aid Assad’s air force in a military response.

The officials said Russian diplomats asserted terms regarding Syrian airspace were agreed upon last September as part of a sweeping deal to disarm Syria’s arsenal of chemical weapons by the middle of 2014.

The officials further said that both the Russia and Iranian militaries are on heightened alert amid the ongoing situation in Syria.