"Moderate" Muslims Had a Peace Conference in Norway...

[JadedWolf]

I think you will find that many young jihadists these days have only a very superficial notion of Islam:

 

 

 

No strangers to religious conviction, the Burnhams gently engaged their captors in theological discussion and found these jihadists to be shallow, even adolescent, in their faith. Unfamiliar with the Koran, the outlaws had only a sketchy notion of Islam, which they saw as a set of behavioral rules, to be violated when it suited them. Kidnapping, murder, and theft were justified by their special status as “holy warriors.” One by one they sexually appropriated several of the women captives, claiming them as “wives.”

 

-Mark Bowden "Jihadists in Paradise". The Atlantic

 

I think one would-be IS fighter trying to book a flight to Syria was arrested with a copy of "Islam for Dummies" in his personal effects.

 

Yeah, deep down, if you scratch the surface, they are probably more Ali G. than Bin Laden. Ali G. who just converted to Islam and decided to go radical.

 

[Tsuga C]

Why would some one put a line from a fictional book into their article? It's just weird.

If the shoe fits...

 

And Christ frequently taught via the parable, I might add.

[licketysplit]

I know lots of muslims... im in berlin! and they all dont share this radical takfiri satanistic barbarism. Takfiris are not muslims. They are a sect of saudi arabia!

 

You can compare these freaks with the chrisitan zealots who take the bible pure literaly and think that eve was being made out of a rip. They realy believe that. So whenever some says hey look here is written, cut of his infidel head and raping of chirdren is ok... he definately is not a muslim!

Fundamental Christians aren't lopping heads off, like what just happened in Oklahoma. Born and bred 'Merican Muslim is copying Isis. The reality is Christianity has had hundreds of years to distance itself from the barbarism, and Islam has not.

[Meshugger]

 

I know lots of muslims... im in berlin! and they all dont share this radical takfiri satanistic barbarism. Takfiris are not muslims. They are a sect of saudi arabia!

 

You can compare these freaks with the chrisitan zealots who take the bible pure literaly and think that eve was being made out of a rip. They realy believe that. So whenever some says hey look here is written, cut of his infidel head and raping of chirdren is ok... he definately is not a muslim!

Fundamental Christians aren't lopping heads off, like what just happened in Oklahoma. Born and bred 'Merican Muslim is copying Isis. The reality is Christianity has had hundreds of years to distance itself from the barbarism, and Islam has not.

 

 

Also add that in the muslim world there's always the topic of what a muslim state is or should be, or how it is to be a muslim in a secular or nonmuslim country. There's no such thing in the western world, there's nothing about being a baptist moving to Germany. It's about [insert nationality here] moving to a host country, all while in the host country is trying to figure out what a citizen of that host country really is.

 

Point being; Islam from secular to radical is about the identity of the muslim faith no matter where they are, while the western world is confined to nation-states, that do not really know what they are or should be, except for tolerating others. That is why radical Islam (atleast i think so) is so successful with the youth: simple, dogmatic and direct answers in a complicated world.

[Wrath of Dagon]

But yeah, I disagree on the CAIR thing.  The idea that it is a shadowy front for Hamas is far-fetched.  It was linked to a shady charity organization.  But it's an organization that has been vocally condemning terrorism and extremism since before 9/11.  The website is hardly a radical platform, and the CAIR branch in my area has done nothing but reach out to the civic and religious community to build bridges.

You simply continue to be in denial. CAIR's main activity right now is to try to suppress free speech: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/04/14/The-Intolerance-of-Brandeis

 

http://www.investigativeproject.org/1854/doj-cairs-unindicted-co-conspirator-status-legit#

Weich's letter to U.S. Rep. Sue Myrick and her colleagues points to two excerpts of trial testimony from FBI Special Agent Lara Burns. Both deal with conversations leading up to CAIR's original formation.

 

In one, she reads from transcripts from a secret 1993 gathering of Hamas supporters in Philadelphia where the group talks of creating a new organization with a fairly innocuous sounding name. She read comments from Holy Land Foundation President Shukri Abu Baker explain the new entity should present a benign face compared to existing Islamist groups:

 

 

"And let's not hoist a large Islamic flag, and let's not be barbaric-talking. We will remain a front so that if the thing happens, we will benefit from the new happenings instead of having all of our organizations classified and exposed."

Stephen Emerson btw who runs The Investigative Project on Terrorism is the only person who kept warning something like 9/11 would happen before it happened.

 

Edit: Here btw is the Oklahoma's murderer's Imam making an extremist speech at a CAIR fundraiser : http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/04/moderate-boston-imam-suhaib-webb-hirsi-ali-idiot-secularism-lunatic-ideology

Edited September 28, 2014 by Wrath of Dagon

[BruceVC]

WOD I understand that you and Hurlshot have different opinions on CAIR and that's normal and to be expected

 

But Hurlshot is not someone to just formulate an opinion on something without having interacted with it, its too important to just have a random view  without being certain

 

And this is relevant as one of the main deterrents to the support of Islamic extremism in Western countries. Groups like CAIR play a role  that vocally criticize groups like ISIS, this is needed to make it clear that this interpretation of Islam will not be something that Muslims will accept. So by saying CAIR is linked to fundamentalism is a serious accusation

Edited September 28, 2014 by BruceVC

[Wrath of Dagon]

It's a serious accusation backed up by evidence. Read and watch the links. Edit: Al Qaeda criticized ISIS too, so what?

Edited September 28, 2014 by Wrath of Dagon

[Hurlshort]

Wait, so a large organization with chapters spread throughout North America possibly has ties to shady characters?  *gasp*

 

That sounds like every large organization ever to exist anywhere.  As I said, my local chapter has done a great job of building ties in the community.  Also, every one of your sources is pushing an agenda.  Try reading a legitimate news source:

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/the-king-hearings-is-cair-a-terrorist-organization/2011/03/10/AB3AdTQ_blog.html

 

or

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/12/us/politics/12muslims.html?_r=0

 

They don't clear CAIR of anything, they simply present facts in a reasonable manner and try to avoid hyperbole.  You know, what good journalists are supposed to do. 

 

Also you shouldn't talk to the FBI without a lawyer present.  Any Lawyer in the world will tell you that, and CAIR is, above all else, a legal advocacy group. 

 

edit:  Read the NY Times article at least, it's very well written.

Edited September 28, 2014 by Hurlshot

[Wrath of Dagon]

You say they have different chapters, but you yourself posted a link to their national website as evidence of what good guys they are. And this is from your links

However, federal Judge Jorge A. Solis denied CAIR’s request that its name be publicly striken from the list. He said that the government “has produced ample evidence” to establish the association of CAIR and other organizations with entities such as the Holy Land Foundation, the Islamic Association for Palestine and with the Hamas militant group. Solis acknowledged CAIR’s claim that evidence produced by the government “largely predates” the official designation of these groups as terror organizations but he said the “evidence is nonetheless sufficient to show the association of these entities with HLF, IAP, and Hamas.”

Founded in 1994, CAIR has 34 chapters around the country and has focused on combating discrimination and violence against Muslims. It has been dogged by accusations that some of its leaders, including Mr. Awad, have old connections to Hamas, the Palestinian militant group, or the Muslim Brotherhood, the Islamist group founded in Egypt that advocates for Islamic government.

Also, nothing that I posted is contradicted in those articles, which of course try to be PC considering their source, but my information is far more in depth, you just choose to ignore it.

[Hurlshort]

Wonderful, cherry pick paragraphs that fit your opinion on the matter.  Leave out the ones like this:

 

 

 

Sheriff Baca, the only law enforcement official invited to testify, said he worked regularly with the CAIR chapter in his area and pushed back. “I have not experienced anything that suggests that CAIR supports terrorism,” he said. He suggested that such accusations should not be cast about recklessly in the absence of solid evidence.

 

 

 

Indeed, some of the statements about CAIR at the hearing were oversimplified at best. Mr. King noted, for example, that CAIR was listed as an “unindicted co-conspirator or joint venturer” in a terrorism financing case against a charity, the Holy Land Foundation — but so were more than 200 other groups and individuals. CAIR was not accused of a crime.

 

 

 

Mr. Wolf mentioned that a poster declaring “Build a wall of resistance — Don’t talk to the F.B.I.” had appeared on the Web site of the group’s California chapter. But the poster had been created by non-Muslim activists in the 1970s, and CAIR officials took it down after a few days, saying it did not represent the group’s policy.

 

 

 

CAIR has had a tense relationship with the F.B.I. and on occasion has urged Muslims not to talk to law enforcement officials without a lawyer present, a caution Mr. Awad said was very much in keeping with the American system of justice. “As a civil rights organization,” he said, “we have the difficult job of encouraging constitutionally informed cooperation with law enforcement.”

 

 

 

CAIR officials also note that they went immediately to the F.B.I. in 2009 when they were approached by the parents of five young Muslim men in Virginia who had disappeared. The men turned up in Pakistan, where they were reportedly trying to join the fight against American troops in Afghanistan.

 

 

 

“Especially after 9/11, Muslims in this country felt very much under siege, and they saw CAIR as their champion,” Mr. Ahmed said. He dismissed efforts by the group’s critics to link it to terrorism. “Everyone can be linked by the seventh degree to someone who’s an extremist,” he said.

 

See that's really the whole problem with your conspiracy theory.  It's a conspiracy theory.  It isn't fact, the evidence is lacking, and CAIR certainly hasn't been charged with any crimes.  I know it's against conspiracy theorists nature to take things at face value, so I'll give up now.

[Wrath of Dagon]

I "cherry picked" the quotes which were actually relevant to the thesis. Most of the stuff you posted proves nothing, except the one where your own beloved California chapter encouraged its members not to cooperate with FBI's counterterrorism investigations, "build a wall of resistance", a poster they only took down once a firestorm of controversy erupted.

Forget it, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

 

Edit: So all the people I quoted, the people who've been warning about the danger of Islamism for years and years, and have been proven right time and again, are all conspiracy theorists to you?

Edited September 28, 2014 by Wrath of Dagon

[Hurlshort]

Do you really think a website called jihadwatch is interested in presenting a reasonably moderate and impartial view of Islam?  He's got an agenda he is pushing, he has books to sell, etc.  I don't think he is a conspiracy theorist, I think people who buy into everything he is saying are.  Every one of your sources is making a profit off inciting fear.  I don't fault them for that, free press is a beautiful part of our society, but it is a one-sided news source.  Keep an open mind, listen to alternative opinions, and weigh evidence against common sense.  

 

 

tl;dr - yes, your sources are garbage.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Hurlshot

[Wrath of Dagon]

So the FBI, the courts, the US government are all garbage sources? You really can't contradict any of the evidence, only launch ad hominem attacks. I think you actually have your own religion, which is based on believe and can not be contradicted by any facts. It's called PC.

[Hurlshort]

So the FBI, the courts, the US government are all garbage sources? You really can't contradict any of the evidence, only launch ad hominem attacks. I think you actually have your own religion, which is based on believe and can not be contradicted by any facts. It's called PC.

 

What crimes have they been charged with by the FBI, the courts, or the US Government?  They are on an unindicted contact list for a charity that is linked to Hamas, that's hardly a smoking gun.

 

But hey, maybe they are just a front for the big bad wolf.  So what on their website is meant to corrupt the youth (or whatever their seedy agenda is)?  

 

It's funny that you accuse me of being politically correct when you seem very quick to jump on the anti-muslim bandwagon without hesitation.  Attacking Islam and the 1.6 billion Muslims worldwide is a much more popular choice in the US than engaging different cultures and having an open dialogue about differences.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Hurlshot

[Walsingham]

Is it fair to observe that AlQ et al. cynically exploit the fact that there genuinely are healthy and good Muslim institutions?

 

If every Muslim was a terrorist in waiting, it wouldn't be much of a disguise. No to mention as Hurlshot already did that 1.6 billion isn't terrorism anymore. It's a world war. And *checks window* if we're in a world war it hasn't reached my street yet.

[Wrath of Dagon]

 

So the FBI, the courts, the US government are all garbage sources? You really can't contradict any of the evidence, only launch ad hominem attacks. I think you actually have your own religion, which is based on believe and can not be contradicted by any facts. It's called PC.

 

What crimes have they been charged with by the FBI, the courts, or the US Government?  They are on an unindicted contact list for a charity that is linked to Hamas, that's hardly a smoking gun.

 

But hey, maybe they are just a front for the big bad wolf.  So what on their website is meant to corrupt the youth (or whatever their seedy agenda is)?  

 

It's funny that you accuse me of being politically correct when you seem very quick to jump on the anti-muslim bandwagon without hesitation.  Attacking Islam and the 1.6 billion Muslims worldwide is a much more popular choice in the US than engaging different cultures and having an open dialogue about differences.

 

They were founded to shill for Hamas and MB, do you have no reading comprehension, it's right there in the quote from their founder I posted, he uses the word front, he talks about not displaying their true colors. And I'm not attacking Muslims in general, many of them are good US allies, like the Egyptian government, I'm exposing what's been proven to be a terrorist linked organization, read the quote from the judge again; whose main purpose is to lower our anti-terrorism defenses to pre-9/11 levels and infringe on the right of free speech to criticize their Sharia agenda. And thanks to the people who think like you and our Clown in Chief president, they're succeeding brilliantly.