How to Fix the Attribute Design in Pillars of Eternity

[Hormalakh]

I've added my thoughts on your dedicated ranger thread. I agree with sensuki. the rangers are boring.

[archangel979]

 

 

 

 

If we want to keep the attribute system simple and easy-to-understand, there shouldn't really be much more than 1 or 2 stats on each attribute. This means that some attributes will, be nature, be favored by some character archetypes.

 

What we tried to achieve was a system in which each class could benefit from any attribute, but not necessarily each archetype. Which (IMO) is as far as it needs to go. After all, we want there to be interesting choices between the attributes - and if not only any class but any character type period will benefit from all attributes, that interesting choice goes away. After all, if all DPS characters and all tank characters etc all benefit from the same attributes, how do you even know what the difference is between the two anymore?

I think the problem comes from the fact that many classes are pigeon holed into certain party roles (Rogues are DPSrs, if your not DPSing with your rouge you are sub optimal.) if the class system could be expanded so all classes could fill several party roles (with the correct stat/talent picks) then this stat balance would be perfect.

I think we can all agree that a full class rebalance is totally out of the question, but some class rebalances (Sensuki sounds lake he want to take on that next) could work with this system very nicely. (I want me my dodge tank rogue).

Rogue are utility/DPS in the IE games, why should it be different in PoE?

 

Also, I like my class pigeonholed into specific roles, I don't need a pseudo-classless system where classes exist only to give different sparkles to the same abilities all the other classes can use.

Rogue is many things in IE but DPS is not one of them. They can do burst damage with Backstab but as far as DPS goes they are behing fighters.

Only high level Shadowdancer in BG2EE can have good dps and that is due to being able to go Stealth around enemies.

[morhilane]

 

 

 

If we want to keep the attribute system simple and easy-to-understand, there shouldn't really be much more than 1 or 2 stats on each attribute. This means that some attributes will, be nature, be favored by some character archetypes.

 

What we tried to achieve was a system in which each class could benefit from any attribute, but not necessarily each archetype. Which (IMO) is as far as it needs to go. After all, we want there to be interesting choices between the attributes - and if not only any class but any character type period will benefit from all attributes, that interesting choice goes away. After all, if all DPS characters and all tank characters etc all benefit from the same attributes, how do you even know what the difference is between the two anymore?

I think the problem comes from the fact that many classes are pigeon holed into certain party roles (Rogues are DPSrs, if your not DPSing with your rouge you are sub optimal.) if the class system could be expanded so all classes could fill several party roles (with the correct stat/talent picks) then this stat balance would be perfect.

I think we can all agree that a full class rebalance is totally out of the question, but some class rebalances (Sensuki sounds lake he want to take on that next) could work with this system very nicely. (I want me my dodge tank rogue).

Rogue are utility/DPS in the IE games, why should it be different in PoE?

 

Also, I like my class pigeonholed into specific roles, I don't need a pseudo-classless system where classes exist only to give different sparkles to the same abilities all the other classes can use.

Rogue is many things in IE but DPS is not one of them. They can do burst damage with Backstab but as far as DPS goes they are behing fighters.

Only high level Shadowdancer in BG2EE can have good dps and that is due to being able to go Stealth around enemies.

 

 

If you deal damage you are a DPS. I said nothing about them being the best DPS of the IE games.

[redneckdevil]

Once they implement enemy npcs that are range making their targets focused more on range first would show range that con is useful. Meaning archers would target the party members that are hanging back than close up and initially npcs would go after buffers/healers before being agro'd by the front line tanks.

[gkathellar]

 

 

 

 

If we want to keep the attribute system simple and easy-to-understand, there shouldn't really be much more than 1 or 2 stats on each attribute. This means that some attributes will, be nature, be favored by some character archetypes.

 

What we tried to achieve was a system in which each class could benefit from any attribute, but not necessarily each archetype. Which (IMO) is as far as it needs to go. After all, we want there to be interesting choices between the attributes - and if not only any class but any character type period will benefit from all attributes, that interesting choice goes away. After all, if all DPS characters and all tank characters etc all benefit from the same attributes, how do you even know what the difference is between the two anymore?

I think the problem comes from the fact that many classes are pigeon holed into certain party roles (Rogues are DPSrs, if your not DPSing with your rouge you are sub optimal.) if the class system could be expanded so all classes could fill several party roles (with the correct stat/talent picks) then this stat balance would be perfect.

I think we can all agree that a full class rebalance is totally out of the question, but some class rebalances (Sensuki sounds lake he want to take on that next) could work with this system very nicely. (I want me my dodge tank rogue).

Rogue are utility/DPS in the IE games, why should it be different in PoE?

 

Also, I like my class pigeonholed into specific roles, I don't need a pseudo-classless system where classes exist only to give different sparkles to the same abilities all the other classes can use.

Rogue is many things in IE but DPS is not one of them. They can do burst damage with Backstab but as far as DPS goes they are behing fighters.

Only high level Shadowdancer in BG2EE can have good dps and that is due to being able to go Stealth around enemies.

 

 

If you deal damage you are a DPS. I said nothing about them being the best DPS of the IE games.

 

 

Generally, when you call a class DPS, you mean to say that DPS is its focus and where it stands out.

 

That said, while BG2 thieves were really a nova class when it came to damage (spike traps and backstab, yikes!), they could do fairly good DPS if you knew how to use them. Assassin's poison was actually pretty fantastic, IIRC. Bounty Hunters could do some unfair things with traps mid-combat. So on and so forth.

[Falendor]

 

Mostly played a ranger so far, so I know what your talking about.

Fighters seemed ok to me, I believe Josh said that different classes will have different levels of skill needed to play them, if any class should be "low skill" then its the fighter. that'll be a discussion for another thread though.

I don't think he said 'skill.' I think he said 'maintenance.' Fighters are lower-maintenance than, say, wizards, meaning you can basically park them and have them auto-attack, and they'll mostly do fine.

Your totally right on that one. with up to 6 party members you don't want to have to micro manage every single one of them, or at least most people wont.

[frapillo80]

Not sure if it's been suggested already (it's a long topic), but what about making Perception more appealing by having it shify by a little the miss/graze/hit/critical?

Let's say 0.3% per point of perception, so that 18 Perception gives a 4.5% shift, which especially in fights against high deflection enemies can make a difference (but it's just an example, the 0.x% would just depend on balance etc.).

 

This way, we'd have Perception influencing search, interrupts but also indirectly influencing accuracy (let's say the 'quality' of your hits) while staying separate from the influence on defense that dexterity has. And I guess influence on the quality of the hits would work also lore-wise (and it could even influence the graze/hit/critical part, leaving the difference between miss and graze to dexterity, or the hit/critical part only).

 

This, and having Resolve also influence the duration of negative effects (as already suggested by several) would take some steps forwards for the no-dump-stats goal, I guess. Maybe. I don't know, really.

[Rosbjerg]

Closed due to length. New Thread here.