Drama in indy gaming and games journalism part 2

[Orogun01]

 

By the way, if we're talking about journalistic integrity...

 

Our friend Milo there, writer of the utterly inane "game journalist mailing sites are THE DEVIL" article, who, based on quotes like "the video game community is perhaps the most inclusive, gender neutral and colourblind on the internet" holds our little community in quite a high regard, apparently didn't shy away from blatantly ****ting on video gaming culture in his article about Elliot Rodgers (read: when doing so was convenient for his anti-feminist agenda). So, erm, yeah, let's keep in mind that while he hates us less than he hates feminists, according to him, games like Counterstrike, Halo and World of Warcraft "are the classic frustrated sociopath’s pastime", and Rodgers' (School Shooting Guy, for those who forgot) "twisted view of the world was assembled piecemeal from the games he immersed himself in".

 

Sorry. Had to gloat about that for a bit.

 

 

https://twitter.com/Nero/status/512592859439333376

 

It doesn't mean much, but a simple "I was wrong" is more than anything we've gotten from a game journalist at this point.

 

I had been looking for that tweet.

[Malcador]

I so want Cheong to comment on that, will be a good chance to slam him with his old Codex postings

 

Ah, Volourn, always so eager to jump in and demonstrate an utter inability to interpret written text.

 

Sadly, while I'm quite sure many people would actually pay for the privilege, I, personally, am not into arguing with subliterate trolls, so I'll have to pass on this opportunity to engage with your... contributions to this topic. But thanks for enriching us with your unique viewpoint anyways.

Volo does have a point though - "This whole is funny ebcause people make a HUGE deal about it when it is completely irrelevant in the real world. Nobody outside the corner of jerking off on the internet really knows about this. Nobody I know in real life gives a crap."

Edited September 18, 2014 by Malcador

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

https://twitter.com/Nero/status/512592859439333376

 

It doesn't mean much, but a simple "I was wrong" is more than anything we've gotten from a game journalist at this point.

 

 

Didn't the Escapist go out of its way to please us and instate a code of journalistic conduct in light of recent events? I'd value that more than this opportunistic little piece of ****'s admission.

 

Then again, I fully admit my bias against anyone writing for a right-wing publication intent on waging "a 30 front war [of propaganda] seeking to fundamentally transform the nation".

Edited September 18, 2014 by aluminiumtrioxid

[Blarghagh]

Don't get me wrong, the guy's an oppertunistic shill but at least he owned up to his mistake - he did the same thing when the police confirmed that Sarkeesian had contacted them after all. Escapist may have instated a code of journalistic conduct but (and please correct me if I'm wrong) I don't recall them having been part of the journalists proclaiming the gamer identity to be awful and dying in the first place.

[Orogun01]

Don't get me wrong, the guy's an oppertunistic shill but at least he owned up to his mistake - he did the same thing when the police confirmed that Sarkeesian had contacted them after all. Escapist may have instated a code of journalistic conduct but (and please correct me if I'm wrong) I don't recall them having been part of the journalists proclaiming the gamer identity to be awful and dying in the first place.

You're not wrong, apparently the escapist had only been included because we really don't like Jim Sterling. Also one of the co founders is part of the tinfoil hat community.

[Blarghagh]

"We" dislike Jim Sterling? Why? I have no issues with the man. I respect his opinion, even on this subject, even though I support GamerGate and he does not.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

Don't get me wrong, the guy's an oppertunistic shill but at least he owned up to his mistake - he did the same thing when the police confirmed that Sarkeesian had contacted them after all. Escapist may have instated a code of journalistic conduct but (and please correct me if I'm wrong) I don't recall them having been part of the journalists proclaiming the gamer identity to be awful and dying in the first place.

 

Here's the thing, I don't believe he "owned up to his mistake", I believe he's running damage control because he feels backing the gamergate people is useful to him at the moment, and will resume being a dickwad as soon as it becomes more convenient. Again, I fully admit the possibility of being blinded by my bias against right-wing journalists.

 

As to which site wrote what, I'm absolutely ignorant on the matter, given that the only reason I visit any major gaming site is to read the excellent Shamus Young's weekly column. It's quite likely that you're right.

 

Edit: how the hell is it possible that I can't refer vulgarly to excrement, but "dickwad" is okay?

Edited September 18, 2014 by aluminiumtrioxid

[Blarghagh]

I do agree with you that some right-wingers are using GamerGate to further their own politics. I dislike how everyone is now championing Adam Baldwin as some kind of warrior for peace, for example, because he's a gun-toting nutjob and anyone who has been in contact with his political nonsense before this started knows it. It doesn't mean that they can't have anything useful to say on the subject even if they are doing it for oppertunistic reasons. The right-wingers using GamerGate for politics are also by far outnumbered by third wave feminists doing the same thing. Two wrongs don't make a right, but at the same time I support all perspectives being heard and the opponents of GamerGate do not. The overall marginalisation of #NotYourShield as "sockpuppets" and "weaponized minorities" prove that.

 

To be perfectly clear, Christina Sommers is not a right wing conservative but a registered democrat and a liberal one at that. The fact that she supports first wave feminists and openly criticizes the current wave of feminists (say, those who have been using #KillAllMen to use against GamerGate) does not make ruin her standing as a feminist.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

To be perfectly clear, Christina Sommers is not a right wing conservative but a registered democrat and a liberal one at that. The fact that she supports first wave feminists and openly criticizes the current wave of feminists (say, those who have been using #KillAllMen to use against GamerGate) does not make ruin her standing as a feminist.

 

I'm aware of that, I'm just leery of the elements of Gamergate who treat her weighing in on their side of the debate as Ultimate Proof that they're right. Also, her opinion on gaming is even less informed than Sarkeesian's, so there's that.

Edited September 18, 2014 by aluminiumtrioxid

[Fighter]

I agree that the love for that Milo guy that some people display is stupid but he is useful. Just always look for things that are undeniable facts in any journalism and Milo is the only journalist asking questions for "our" side.

 

Christina Sommers might be uninformed about gaming but she was willing to go through some actual truthful statistics instead of the sensationalism those who are supposedly informed better like to use.

[Blarghagh]

I can see that. I have my own problems with the pro-GamerGate side, but at the moment I will continue to support because I have more problems with the anti-GamerGate side.

 

I think the difference between Sommers and Sarkeesian is that Sommers presents data on and has been looking at gamers and their behaviour, not games specifically. She cites studies that have been done and though she gives opinions, she backs them up with factual information. Whereas Sarkeesian created her own study that was horribly researched and terribly misrepresented to further her own agenda. Yes, Sommers is likely doing it to further an agenda but she does make good points when Sarkeesian, with one or two exceptions, really did not.

 

Don't get me wrong, I seriously condemn the people who have threatened, attacked and harassed Sarkeesian over her videos. One of the things that I agree with Jim Sterling on (still not sure why I'm supposed to hate him) is that I disagree with what she says but I will defend her right to say it. I don't consider Sarkeesian's videos to be a problem at all, but the fact that she gets harassed over it does not automatically give her any sort of credibility. Like what you say about some people of GamerGate presenting Sommers video as the ultimate truth applies doubly to the other side because they are journalists with reach and a front of at least partial objectivity which gives them a responsibility to their audience.

 

I agree that Sommers' video doesn't give any kind of ultimate proof either, but at least she is more credible than Sarkeesian. You're correct that some GamerGate supporters (as well as opponents) have been hardlined into some kind of "us vs. them" mentality and see these kinds of things as "victories" but I guess that happens in an opinion conflict that lasts this long. I was very disappointed when people considered the racketeering allegations against Phil Fish "a victory" instead of what it is, which is an extremely sad moment for games media.

[Amentep]

 

If you're ok with Dead Rising 3 getting a lower score on PC than on Xbox because of a SJW that was offended by the characters in the game, then by all means continue to support them. If you want a higher standard and people with actual journalism degrees then do as GamerGate is doing and demand it.

 

This whole thing might have started with Literary Who but it has grown into a discussion of game journalism and ethics. If it goes beyond that and into their relationship with publishers is yet to bee seen.

 

I fail to see how someone giving a lower score to a game they find racist is bad and unprofessional, but whatever.

 

In terms of criticism it isn't - unless it was the same reviewer who did both the PC and console review and was tailoring each review to each market (which would imply that he wasn't doing reviews so much as some kind of targeted infomercial for himself/herself as a cultural lynchpin)

[Orogun01]

I agree that the love for that Milo guy that some people display is stupid but he is useful. Just always look for things that are undeniable facts in any journalism and Milo is the only journalist asking questions for "our" side.

 

Christina Sommers might be uninformed about gaming but she was willing to go through some actual truthful statistics instead of the sensationalism those who are supposedly informed better like to use.

To be fair, I don't think anyone expected for this to be taking seriously by anyone. 

Milo and Baldwin have been among the first legitimate voices that have spoken in favor of GamerGate and that has gained them a tremendous amount of goodwill. 

Is kind of like a first Girfriend/Boyfriend kind of thing.

[Blarghagh]

Orogun, can you tell me why "we" hate Jim Sterling?

[Malcador]

He's a big SJW no ?

[Orogun01]

Orogun, can you tell me why "we" hate Jim Sterling?

 

 

He's a big SJW no ?

He's been unfairly thrown in with their lot because of playing the Devil's Advocate with his persona that is really difficult to differentiate from a real; albeit eccentric, one.

 

@TrueNeutral: It used be that /v/(RIP) had taken a stance against Sterling because he took Anita's side when the Women vs Tropes thing began. I maintain my stance that all of his problems stem from the fact that he's unlikable. 

[Blarghagh]

Malc: Hm I've never considered his SJW tendencies to be out of line, but to be fair I remember you referring to me as an SJW before Malc. I always felt he made good points and was very rarely smug about it - well, more smug than he was about everything else, anyway. It was always made clear that it was an opinion editorial piece and not some sort of review.

 

Orogun: Thanks for the clarification. He can come across as smug but I felt that was more of a persona than anything else. Like Yahtzee's Curmudgeon schtick.

Edited September 18, 2014 by TrueNeutral

[Fighter]

Leigh Alexander is running around deleting her tweets. And naturally all that does is draw everyone's attention to the content of those tweets which of course can never be deleted from the internet. For someone who believes themselves to be smart... Here is a sample:

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Leigh Alexander is running around deleting her tweets. And naturally all that does is draw everyone's attention to the content of those tweets which of course can never be deleted from the internet. For someone who believes themselves to be smart... Here is a sample:

 

Wow, way to **** on someone's dreams. I'm glad that when I was trying to find my footing someone like her wasn't there to offer advice.

[Nonek]

Personally i'm just hoping that we get a journalistic service that is at least fit for purpose and ethical out of this Gamergate thing, that is all I wish for, and that the press in general move on to crucifying another activity. I can't help but be against the hate mongering and censorship that the gaming press are indulging in however, trying to marginalise and dehumanise millions because their lack of ethics and corruption have been brought to light. They have become just as hateful, obnoxious and obsessive as the gentlemen on the other side supposedly sending death threats, especially Ms Alexander whose childish bullying and name calling is utterly pathetic.

 

I've got to admit i've always found Mr Sterling highly unlikeable as well unfortunately, the falsetto squealing, the sarcasm and his dramatic posturing just serve to put ones back up, even when I agree with the points he's making.

[Orogun01]

 

I've got to admit i've always found Mr Sterling highly unlikeable as well unfortunately, the falsetto squealing, the sarcasm and his dramatic posturing just serve to put ones back up, even when I agree with the points he's making.

I call it Bill Maher syndrome.

[Fighter]

Judging by Leigh's irrational twitchy actions this is causing her considerable stress.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

 

I've got to admit i've always found Mr Sterling highly unlikeable as well unfortunately, the falsetto squealing, the sarcasm and his dramatic posturing just serve to put ones back up, even when I agree with the points he's making.

I call it Bill Maher syndrome.

I find Maher's standup to be funny, but his show misses the mark for me.

 

*Shrug*

[Volourn]

"Also, her opinion on gaming is even less informed than Sarkeesian's, so there's that."

 

No, it isn't. They both did research just prior to their videos. The different is that Ms. Sarkessian's is full of lies, half truths, and complete misconceptions. Not to mention cherry picking while that video by the newcomer to the drama seems to be well researched and reasonably accurate.

[HoonDing]

Orogun, can you tell me why "we" hate Jim Sterling?

he's fat

 

plus he gave Alpha Protolol a 2/10