Another comment on the exp system

[Lephys]

Like what? Don't speak in generalities.. come up with a solution that pleases both sides..

It's not my sole responsibility to do this. I'm working at it, along with everyone else in this thread (and many others) who's not unreasonably focused on protesting general design evaluations.

 

"Like what?"? Well, I can't answer that, because it'd be shunned as a --*gasp*-- generality!

 

Tell you what... I won't reply again until I have the EXACT formula to fix everything, all by myself. You're welcome,

[Suen]

I'm fine with the current system. I don't want to get xp from combat. Take this as my answer to any present, past and future thread on the argument.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Suen

[Immortalis]

 

Like what? Don't speak in generalities.. come up with a solution that pleases both sides..

It's not my sole responsibility to do this. I'm working at it, along with everyone else in this thread (and many others) who's not unreasonably focused on protesting general design evaluations.

 

"Like what?"? Well, I can't answer that, because it'd be shunned as a --*gasp*-- generality!

 

Tell you what... I won't reply again until I have the EXACT formula to fix everything, all by myself. You're welcome,

 

 

So then your original point was moot. If you can't point to a single fact.. don't use that rational as an excuse to prove someone was wrong. If I put all your posts back to back and read them you are zipping around and flip flopping everywhere.. you just type a lot, you aren't giving us anything of substance.

 

Again.. no offense.. but how can I possibly respond / argue / agree / understand your points and thought process if whenever we get to the meat of the subject you throw your hands up and say "well I don't have anything nowwwww... but like that's just your opinion man"

[Lephys]

Just because I'm not giving you something you, specifically, can follow and comprehend, doesn't mean I'm not giving you anything of substance.

 

That is not an insult. Minds think differently. But, I don't understand in the slightest what it is you expect me to do, other than "throw up my hands" when you disregard my entire thought process as irrelevant or pointless, simply because you don't intuitively grasp my perspective.

 

It's downright preposterous. If there's an issue with what I've said, point it out, and how/why it's an issue. If you can't do that, what kind of response do you expect? "I have no idea what your point is, but it's wrong because of reasons..."?

 

Also, I think you too often assume my posts are directly attempting to refute someone or something. The vast majority of what I share in discussions is simply food for thought, which is what the vast majority of discussions should be. I don't know if it's the ambiguous tone of internet text, and/or the way in which I specifically word things, or what. But, people get awfully defensive, for no reason that I can come up with.

 

I'm not an enemy. I'm just a collaborator in a discussion.

[Namutree]

 

He asked if I only played RPGs once, implying that without reason to explore, there was no reason to replay the game. Even with experince for kills, i still don't explore parts of Baldur's Gate I already have unless there are quests there. Experience doesn't entice me to explore, quests do. It's not really exploring after the first time, then it's just mining for experience and that isn't fun for me. However, redoing quests/battles differently is fun.

 

That is literally the opposite of me. I think quests are lame and avoid most of them. That's part of why BG1 is so great; you can mostly just skip quests if you want. You can mostly skip exploration if you want. In either case you'll get plenty of xp. Try skipping quests in poe and see how many level up you'll get.

 

I never really enjoyed quests, but if Obsidian had taken quest-xp I'd have been against that too. No one thing be it quests or combat should have a monopoly on xp. It's needlessly restrictive.

[Jigawatts]

Wait, what??

 

I haven't been on here in a while (I've been trying to avoid any spoilers and just waiting for the final game to come out).

 

PoE wont have XP for combat? That seems kinda crazy to me. XP (along with loot) is the great motivator, it drives us to explore, it drives us to fight, it drives us to save the farmers from those perky goblins. This was marketed to us as a spiritual successor to the IE games, specifically BG, and dont get me wrong, I love doing quests and saving the princess, but I want XP from everything. I want it from completing a quest, I want it from picking a lock, I want it from disarming a trap, I want it from solving a puzzle, I want it for good roleplaying (the dialogue options), and yes, I want it from defeating monsters.

 

I really am surprised this is even an issue, especially for a successor game to BG. Hopefully it all gets sorted out by release. XP for everything!

[Labadal]

You're a bit late to the part on this matter. It's been known for ages.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Labadal: That's not entirely true. I know plenty of backers, many of whom had followed the updates eagerly, who didn't pick that up. No xp per body count and objective xp were still interpreted as encounter/combat xp, skill xp, crafting xp, etc, being in. There are loads of loads of honestly surprised people over this, and we will see more each and every day.

Edited September 11, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot

[Gromnir]

You're a bit late to the part on this matter. It's been known for ages.

oh sure, but there is some folks with poor reading skills, or who is willful obtuse, or simply do the three wise monkeys routine every time they get news they don't like. doesn't obsidian have a responsibility to retroactive protect the extreme foolish? and what about folks with crippling dyslexia? no doubt a tiny fraction o' a tiny fraction o' the kickstarter supporters simply couldn't read the updates or the developer posts on this subject. can obsidian escape responsibility on this matter because they were clear and unrelenting regarding quest/objective xp?

 

no. hell no. obsidian owes it to the stone-dead oblivious and that one or two functional handicapped dyslexic PoE kickstarter supporters to...

 

well, am not exactly sure what obsidian owes such folks, but lord knows that obsidian cannot avoid their burden o' responsibility just because they fully explained quest/objective xp two years ago.  cretins and the functional illiterate dyslexics is people too and they can no longer be ignored by obsidian.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Namutree]

 or simply do the three wise monkeys routine 

 

 

What is the three wise monkeys routine?

[Stun]

 

or simply do the three wise monkeys routine

What is the three wise monkeys routine?

 

 

Ie. See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.

 

Although you can hardly call this situation a 3 wise monkeys routine, since there's been more speaking on the subject than just about any other PoE-relative topic ever.

 

But I'm not quite sure what's behind Gromnir's PMS this morning. Sometimes we 'functional dyslexic cretins' can successfully change developer minds. Why, just yesterday we got Josh to budge on his long held "No Invisibility" rule.

 

 

Check it out:

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/68384-josh-says-poes-fighters-and-rogues-arent-boring/?p=1507166

[Gromnir]

please show where we has said that it is a bad idea to make requests o' obsidian. show where we has said it is impossible to change anything and everything in PoE even at this late date. josh checked and it turned out it ain't hard to change invisibility. he checked with The Team, the obsidians, got their input, and changed a feature that turned out to be relative easier to fix than he had believed. good job.

 

is changing xp the same? we have already got comments from developers to the contrary. hell, we even got support o' indira that for obsidian to convert and maintain goals o' balance, diversity of build usefulness and simplicity would require a great deal o' developer effort... so is not analogous, not by a long shot. thanks for the link though. we did get a chuckle that somebody would try and educate Gromnir that poster feedback can create change in games. gosh? really?

 

HA! 

 

but yeah, keep fighting. it doesn't achieve anything In This Particular Case, but it doesn't do any harm either... but that weren't the question either.  you is making more noise as your response is irrelevant in the present context. there were a poster that acted surprised that no kill xp were implemented. the immediate question has nothing to do with the possibility o' changing a feature. 

 

review

 

poster 1: I really am surprised this is even an issue, especially for a successor game to BG. Hopefully it all gets sorted out by release. XP for everything!

 

poster 2: You're a bit late to the part on this matter. It's been known for ages.

 

poster 3: That's not entirely true. I know plenty of backers, many of whom had followed the updates eagerly, who didn't pick that up.

 

so again, before you get lost, what were obsidian's level o' responsibility? the obsidians explained numerous times what quest xp entailed, and they were even more clear that body-count would not be a factor in generating xp. this is not about possibility o' change question, but is rather an issue o' how obsidian could implement such a feature and have folks uniformed o' that fact at this late date. beyond actual informing the fanbase multiple times and in no uncertain terms that there would not be xp for individual kills, what more could obsidian have done? indeed, obsidian clear did not consider how to inform the cretinous and the illiterate and those who chose to be willful ignorant, but what more could possibly be demanded o' obsidian as far as enlightening folks?  

 

"Although you can hardly call this situation a 3 wise monkeys routine, since there's been more speaking on the subject than just about any other PoE-relative topic ever."

 

first, that is the most narcissistic nonsense we has ever heard. the recent polls regarding kill xp actual has less responses than the older versions, and even then there were more contentious and popular subjects being debated on these boards. you care about kill xp, so is important to you, so you see as "more speaking" about the subject. also, please note there is three monkeys... am gonna let you guess which monkey(s) is most appropriate to your seeming confusion. three wise monkeys can refer to any and all the approaches to dealing with perceived evils.  and yes, if a poster purposeful remained ignorant and did not see, hear or speak, then all three monkeys is evoked, no?

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited September 11, 2014 by Gromnir

[Jigawatts]

Gromnir, did I make some kind of personal affront to you man? You seem to be in pretty hardcore attack mode.

 

Internet forum goers are always the minority when it comes to anything. Personally I know 3 other people who pledged on the PoE Kickstarter, none of them are regular forums goers (for anything really), they just heard "spiritual successor to BG" and jumped all in, and it probably wont even be on their radar again until they get the email saying "your Project Eternity game download is ready". I am more prone to hop on forums (though only sporadically), hence me stopping by here and seeing all the buzz.

 

Now, nowhere on the Kickstarter page do I remember reading "XP will only be given for completing quests, not for defeating monsters", though maybe I just missed it, I'm not above saying that could happen. But anyway, its not a stretch that one could properly assume that a game labeled as "spiritual successor to BG" would have XP for slaying bad guys, hence my surprise.

 

But I do apologize if my not being a regular forum goer somehow equated to pissing in your Cheerios.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Jigawatts

[Stun]

please show where we has said that it is a bad idea to make requests o' obsidian. show where we has said it is impossible to change anything and everything in PoE even at this late date.

I can do that. Wait, Are you crazy? Are you *actually* trying to pretend that you haven't actively and fanatically been crusading to shut us all up on the issue for several months now?

 

 

 

Ok, Gromnir, I will show us all some of your many silly attempts to argue that X is set in stone, thus 'beating the dead horse' is pointless, and we're idiots for doing it.

 

as has been stated hundreds o' times, this same fight has raged with largely the same developers since approx 2002 when black isle were working on bg3 and then fo3. black isle developers went over all the positives and negatives o' quest/task xp awards and soundly beat the ad hoc proponents into utter stoopid submission. we had thought that the ground had been made forever infertile with the blood spilled by the idiotic protests o' the ad hoc proponents, but it seems that at least some o' you is too stubborn to realize that you is well and fully vanquished.

read links if you want an answer to your question, but this issue is, thankfully, pointless.

change xp mechanic at this late date when sawyer and cain approve quest xp, and given that qa folks gameplay reveals that there is no problem with quest xp, makes This issue pointless for debate. thinks that a board poll will achieve results regarding this issue is even more ludicrous.

so, ignoring for a moment that this entire debate is complete moot given the time left for development and the fact that sawyer and cain bot favor quest xp

oh, and again, ‘cause some folks has very short attention spans, this entire debate is moot.

^this is a very very small portion of the whole. Only covers a miniscule sample of your posts on the topic from just the last 3 weeks. In fact, your central argument on the XP issue (since at least 2012) has BEEN to remind everyone that the debate is Pointless. That it's a silly waste especially due to time.

 

Take your history revision elsewhere.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Stun

[Gromnir]

Gromnir, did I make some kind of personal affront to you man? You seem to be in pretty hardcore attack mode.

 

Internet forum goers are always the minority when it comes to anything. Personally I know 3 other people who pledged on the PoE Kickstarter, none of them are regular forums goers (for anything really), they just heard "spiritual successor to BG" and jumped all in, and it probably wont even be on their radar again until they get the email saying "your Project Eternity game download is ready". I am more prone to hop on forums (though only sporadically), hence me stopping by here and seeing all the buzz.

 

Now, nowhere on the Kickstarter page do I remember reading "XP will only be given for completing quests, not for defeating monsters", though maybe I just missed it, I'm not above saying that could happen. But anyway, its not a stretch that one could properly assume that a game labeled as "spiritual successor to BG" would have XP for slaying bad guys, hence my surprise.

 

But I do apologize if my not being a regular forum goer somehow equated to pissing in your Cheerios.

 

"spiritual successor to BG"

 

don't put in quotes. or if you do, find it. we will wait.

 

"Obsidian Entertainment and our legendary game designers Chris Avellone, Tim Cain, and Josh Sawyer are excited to bring you a new role-playing game for the PC. Project Eternity (working title) pays homage to the great Infinity Engine games of years past: Baldur’s Gate, Icewind Dale, and Planescape: Torment.

 

"Project Eternity aims to recapture the magic, imagination, depth, and nostalgia of classic RPG's that we enjoyed making - and playing. At Obsidian, we have the people responsible for many of those classic games and we want to bring those games back… and that’s why we’re here - we need your help to make it a reality!"

 

closest language you get is that PoE will pay homage. please note that the second paragraph don't even reference the ie games but rather,  "classic RPG's that we enjoyed making - and playing." 

 

the closest thing to a specific feature promise we can get from kisckstarter were the following: 

 

"Combat uses a tactical real-time with pause system - positioning your party and coordinating attacks and abilities is one of the keys to success. "

 

you were not given false promises or mislead, and given the surfeit o' information on the initial kickstarter page, the only source o' info that woulda' clarified woulda been the innumerable updates... updates which included discussions o' quest xp.

 

...

 

sorry, but you gotta accept some responsibility on this.

 

btw, if you took personal offense... well, that happens. we actual were responding to others in this thread. nevertheless, we can see that you could be offended. it happens. am not particularly apologetic, but if you felt that Gromnir were overly harsh, we see your point and we shoulda' clarified who we felt needed chastising. our severity were directed elsewhere, but again, you fundamental complaint is not warranted.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps stun is... epic obtuse? is no other way to describe. 

 

"please show where we has said that it is a bad idea to make requests o' obsidian. show where we has said it is impossible to change anything and everything in PoE even at this late date."

 

am still waiting. we already distinguished the kill xp debate as no analogous. some things IS impossible or impractical to change, but not everything... which is why we is also making requests o' obsidian. duh.

 

you can't be this slow on accident... you just... can't.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Gromnir

[Stun]

ps stun is... epic obtuse? is no other way to describe. 

 

"please show where we has said that it is a bad idea to make requests o' obsidian. show where we has said it is impossible to change anything and everything in PoE even at this late date."

 

am still waiting.

Nuh-uh. Your willful, denial-based attempts to salvage your fragile forum Ego will get you nowhere this time Gromnir. I showed you Precisely what you asked me to show you, and what you've claimed you never said.

 

Admit you're wrong, now.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Stun

[Gromnir]

 

ps stun is... epic obtuse? is no other way to describe. 

 

"please show where we has said that it is a bad idea to make requests o' obsidian. show where we has said it is impossible to change anything and everything in PoE even at this late date."

 

am still waiting.

Nuh-uh. Your willful, denial-based attempts to salvage your fragile forum Ego will get you nowhere this time Gromnir. I showed you Precisely what you asked me to show you, and what you've claimed you never said.

 

Admit you're wrong, now.

 

...

 

is genuine surreal.  this can't be accidental. 

 

*shrug*

 

full quote:

 

please show where we has said that it is a bad idea to make requests o' obsidian. show where we has said it is impossible to change anything and everything in PoE even at this late date. josh checked and it turned out it ain't hard to change invisibility. he checked with The Team, the obsidians, got their input, and changed a feature that turned out to be relative easier to fix than he had believed. good job.

 

is changing xp the same? we have already got comments from developers to the contrary. hell, we even got support o' indira that for obsidian to convert and maintain goals o' balance, diversity of build usefulness and simplicity would require a great deal o' developer effort... so is not analogous, not by a long shot. thanks for the link though. we did get a chuckle that somebody would try and educate Gromnir that poster feedback can create change in games. gosh? really?

 

HA! 

 

but yeah, keep fighting. it doesn't achieve anything In This Particular Case, but it doesn't do any harm either... but that weren't the question either.  you is making more noise as your response is irrelevant in the present context. there were a poster that acted surprised that no kill xp were implemented. the immediate question has nothing to do with the possibility o' changing a feature. 

 

end quote.

 

we even capitalized "In This Particular Case."

 

...

 

am not sure how we can possibly help you. you are missing something... basic. is our mistake to once again treat you as if you deserve a response.

 

weird.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Stun]

I certainly plan on continuing the argument.

 

 

please show where we has said that it is a bad idea to make requests o' obsidian. show where we has said it is impossible to change anything and everything in PoE even at this late date."

Lets see.

 

1) You have, no less than 15 times in the last 3 weeks, declared the debate pointless, and its debaters idiots for arguing the pointless. Check.

2) You have stated, no less than 15 times in the last 3 weeks, that it is impossible for Obsidian to change their current XP system for PoE. Check.

3) By Definition, An XP system falls within the category of anything and everything. Check

 

 

Yep. All parameters met. Admit you're wrong, now.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Stun

[Gromnir]

ah. we see that you are simple.  just... simple.

 

"anything AND everything"

 

is funny that you don't understand basic definitions, but we now get your obscenely simple mistake.  thanks for making this more amusing than we anticipated

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps nice selective editing

 

"3) By Definition, An XP system falls within the category of anything. Check"

 

that were your original... is still a fail.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Gromnir

[IndiraLightfoot]

"Gromnir promised, but Gromnir lied."

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_gGb_LLT64

[Jigawatts]

Lol, good lord. I admit I was surprised by no XP for defeating monster, and I would like for it to be implemented, but now I really just want them change it to see Gromnirs reaction. I'm guessing it would be one of two things:

 

A: He goes on rants about how they ruined the game because of everyone's incessant whining.

 

or

 

B: He disappears.

 

Probably the former.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Hardly B. Gromnir is but a fictive character from BG2, and he haunts this forum until Doomsday. I just wish we got to see more Sméagol, and less Gollum, as it were.

[Stun]

ps nice selective editing

 

"3) By Definition, An XP system falls within the category of anything. Check"

 

that were your original... is still a fail.

Selective editing? I edited it to match your exact wording

 

Admit you're wrong Gromnir. Really It's not that difficult. The masses that you believe hang on your every word will either miss your post, or forget this debate ever happened, or they won't care.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Stun

[Yonjuro]

Gromnir is but a fictive character from BG2,

 

 

 It's the other way around. Gromnir Il Khan in ToB is based on Gromnir, the forum member. 

[Gromnir]

Lol, good lord. I admit I was surprised by no XP for defeating monster, and I would like for it to be implemented, but now I really just want them change it to see Gromnirs reaction. I'm guessing it would be one of two things:

 

A: He goes on rants about how they ruined the game because of everyone's incessant whining.

 

or

 

B: He disappears.

 

Probably the former.

disappearing seems highly unlikely... though we do leave the boards for extended periods o' time. last such absence were work related and resulted in an eighteen month absence. maybe put that on your christmas list? no? otherwise, well, as a frame o' reference, Gromnir has been posting as Gromnir since before the biowarians added the character to ToB... which is a considerable amount of time, no?  we wouldn't put money on disappear.

 

and why would we go on a rant? ultimately, and we has said this a few times, we thinks the xp issue is relative inconsequential. heck, we did implied that fact earlier in this thread. 

 

"first, that is the most narcissistic nonsense we has ever heard. the recent polls regarding kill xp actual has less responses than the older versions, and even then there were more contentious and popular subjects being debated on these boards. you care about kill xp, so is important to you, so you see as "more speaking" about the subject. "

 

it really isn't a major issue. the game could survive and be perfectly playable with an ad hoc xp system. adding such a system at this late date is so unlikely as to be approaching utter impossible. indira likes to pretend forgetfulness, but even he admitted that implementing a balanced ad hoc system would be requiring considerable developer efforts.

 

if obsidian switched, we would observe what a terrible waste o' resources went into the effort... maybe. would get one post... maybe two from us. sorry to disappoint.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

"Selective editing? I edited it to match your exact wording

 

"Admit you're wrong Gromnir. Really It's not that difficult. The masses that you believe hang on your every word will either miss your post, or forget this debate ever happened, or they won't care."

 

HA!  what a fraud. you figure out how "and" works in a sentence yet? 

Edited September 11, 2014 by Gromnir