Sensuki's Suggestions #009: Inventory and Item Tooltips

[Amentep]

 

What? Inventory Weight limits were a *huge* deal in the IE games. Most people did not "just drop things in any available slot until a limit was reached and then start dragging things over to the next character." instead, it was exactly as infinitron suggested. You made sure your high strength characters carried all the heavy stuff, and your weaklings carried the keys and scrolls and excess potion stashes.

 

 

 

Can't speak for anyone else, but I'd pick up items with my strongest character, and then when s/he hit encumbrance I'd play inventory Tetris, spreading the weight through the party.  Then after the strongest character was maxed, I started using the next available character who hadn't hit their weight limits...

 

[Sensuki]

That's what I said, you would use the same character to pick everything up. I would usually change characters rather than sort the inventory until everyone's inventories were kinda full, then play inventory tetris to try and fit some more stuff in and then go back to town and sell everything off.

 

I also thought that was simply part of the pacing of the game. You would go adventure for a while and when you had too much stuff to carry, come back to town, sell your stuff and buy up some sweet gear. Then head back out again.

 

That's how I find Baldur's Gate 1 to play, it actually works out very well with the item density and really, it seems pretty natural.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Sensuki

[Tartantyco]

Am I replying to your original post, Sensuki? Don't but into conversations you don't follow the narrative of. Read Stun's post, my reply to it, and the folowing posts. Don't assume what I'm discussing.

[Sensuki]

You said "you guys" indicating more than one person.

 

Regardless, doesn't matter who said what - this is supposed to be a constructive thread and any more thread crapping will not serve anyone.

[AdaMusic]

Good tips. I agree with everything you said.

I feel like, with the stash system, that I have to run back and forth even more from the inn to the "dungeon" than what I had to do in the IE games. I really dislike it. I also feel like the inventory, especially when you loot, is really not intuitive and I really feel like I don't know where picked up items will go. For instance: if I choose "loot all", where will the items go? The stash?

 

Whats even more important is the roleplaying aspect. With the stash it is completely removed.

 

Sensuki you'd make a good game designer. 

Edited August 22, 2014 by AdaMusic

[Stun]

I don't mind the mockery, I recognize myself that it's kind of a LARPy thing.

But it's not. And that's the point. It's not LARPy at all. It's actually quite the extra layer of intended strategizing that has a real effect on the game.

 

In vanilla BG1, (where you can't pause the game in the inventory screen), your dedicated archers had to be *real* careful not to just recklessly load up their inventory with just anything they looted. They had to leave slots open for ammunition, or else they'd find themselves out of ammo in the middle of a battle and they'd have to 'find' more arrows from other people's inventories.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Stun

[AdaMusic]

 

What? Inventory Weight limits were a *huge* deal in the IE games. Most people did not "just drop things in any available slot until a limit was reached and then start dragging things over to the next character." instead, it was exactly as infinitron suggested. You made sure your high strength characters carried all the heavy stuff, and your weaklings carried the keys and scrolls and excess potion stashes.

 

<shakes head>

 

 

Very well said.

[Tartantyco]

In vanilla BG1, (where you can't pause the game in the inventory screen), your dedicated archers had to be *real* careful not to just recklessly load up their inventory with just anything they looted. They had to leave slots open for ammunition, or else they'd find themselves out of ammo in the middle of a battle and they'd have to 'find' more arrows from other people's inventories. 

 

 

Absolute nonsense. 60 arrows is more than enough for several encounters, and as you use up your quiver slots you'll open up more and more inventory space for the loot you're finding. Arrow carrying enemies are also abundant. Implying there is any strategy to the inventory/encumbrance system in the IE games is just silly.

[AdaMusic]

 

In vanilla BG1, (where you can't pause the game in the inventory screen), your dedicated archers had to be *real* careful not to just recklessly load up their inventory with just anything they looted. They had to leave slots open for ammunition, or else they'd find themselves out of ammo in the middle of a battle and they'd have to 'find' more arrows from other people's inventories. 

 

 

Absolute nonsense. 60 arrows is more than enough for several encounters, and as you use up your quiver slots you'll open up more and more inventory space for the loot you're finding. Arrow carrying enemies are also abundant. Implying there is any strategy to the inventory/encumbrance system in the IE games is just silly.

 

 

Did you even play BG1?

 

I thought the IE encumbrance system allowed way more strategy than the current stash system, ESPECIALLY in BG1 and BG2. Just as Stun described, there were lots of arrow juggling in longer journeys in BG1. You could never be sure if your arrows would be enough; it was exciting and added immersion to the roleplaying aspects of the game.

[Tartantyco]

Did you even play BG1?

 

 

wuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut. Did you seriously just say that? I played Baldur's Gate when it only had 4,000 pathing nodes. 4,000!

 

I thought the IE encumbrance system allowed way more strategy than the current stash system, ESPECIALLY in BG1 and BG2. Just as Stun described, there were lots of arrow juggling in longer journeys in BG1. You could never be sure if your arrows would be enough; it was exciting and added immersion to the roleplaying aspects of the game.

 

 

If you had trouble finding arrows or managing your inventory, it was entirely your own fault. I have never, in any IE game, had any issues with inventory beyond it being full and me having to go sell everything before returning to where I was.

[Billy O]

I think item comparison is a must. I'm not sure why anyone would not want it.

[Stun]

If you had trouble finding arrows or managing your inventory, it was entirely your own fault. I have never, in any IE game, had any issues with inventory beyond it being full and me having to go sell everything before returning to where I was.

I think the point is that people actually DID (strict) inventory management in the IE games, because it was kinda important, contrary to Josh's bizarre claim that they didn't. Thanks for missing it! You're the reliable sort, aren't you, Tart. Edited August 22, 2014 by Stun

[AdaMusic]

 

Did you even play BG1?

 

 

wuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut. Did you seriously just say that? I played Baldur's Gate when it only had 4,000 pathing nodes. 4,000!

 

I thought the IE encumbrance system allowed way more strategy than the current stash system, ESPECIALLY in BG1 and BG2. Just as Stun described, there were lots of arrow juggling in longer journeys in BG1. You could never be sure if your arrows would be enough; it was exciting and added immersion to the roleplaying aspects of the game.

 

 

If you had trouble finding arrows or managing your inventory, it was entirely your own fault. I have never, in any IE game, had any issues with inventory beyond it being full and me having to go sell everything before returning to where I was.

 

 

Oh god. You don't read what people write do you? When did I say that I had troubles managing my inventory or finding arrows? I said the inventory system in BG added immersion and strategy; one of the cases was the arrow juggling.

Edited August 22, 2014 by AdaMusic

[Tartantyco]

That would have to be an incredibly loose definition of "strategy" you'd have to use. You won't miss it, trust me.

[crackwise]

Dragon Age Origins had a pretty nice system for comparison of what you had equipped and what was on the ground or in your inventory. Pretty straightforward and useful to the player especially in terms of speeding up the process whether to pick the loot or not.

[Stun]

That would have to be an incredibly loose definition of "strategy" you'd have to use.

Then by all means, go prostrate before your dictionary and leave us alone, already.

[Stun]

Dragon Age Origins had a pretty nice system for comparison of what you had equipped and what was on the ground or in your inventory. Pretty straightforward and useful to the player especially in terms of speeding up the process whether to pick the loot or not.

Well, the choice of "to pick up or not" has been kinda nullified here with PoE's inventory system, as the Stash is both bottomless and weightless. Why wouldn't you grab everything that's grabbable? Edited August 22, 2014 by Stun

[AdaMusic]

That would have to be an incredibly loose definition of "strategy" you'd have to use. You won't miss it, trust me.

 

What is your definition of strategy then? Do you want to discuss or what are you really trying to achieve?

 

Strategy (from Greek  στρατηγία , "art of troop leader; office of general, command, generalship") is a high level plan to achieve one or more goals under conditions of uncertainty.

Edited August 22, 2014 by AdaMusic

[AdaMusic]

Dragon Age Origins had a pretty nice system for comparison of what you had equipped and what was on the ground or in your inventory. Pretty straightforward and useful to the player especially in terms of speeding up the process whether to pick the loot or not.

 

I liked the DAO item system too. I prefer the inventory system in IE games but I would be so much happier with the DAO inventory system than the current stash system.

[Tartantyco]

How does that definition apply to the inventory/encumbrance system in Baldur's Gate 1? What strategic choices am I making? Putting the heavy items in the inventory of the character with the greatest weight allowance isn't a strategic option, it's the only option. Arrows are abundant throughout the game world, and the quantity you can carry vs. the amount of loot you find at no point requires you to make any value judgment as to what to keep or what to drop. If you could only keep what you managed to carry, there would at least be a slight tinge of decision-making, but you can always come back and pick up what you left behind. Or re-equip yourself if, for some strange reason, you run out of something.

 

I state, once again, that at no point while playing Baldur's Gate 1(Vanilla, ToTSC, or TUTU) were my strategic or tactical choices ever influenced by the inventory/encumbrance system. If you were, that is as a result of your own actions, and not any restrictions imposed by the game.

[Uomoz]

Personal opinion: I really don't understand people actually praising IE games inventory system. I mean, it was ok for the time, but switching between characters to find where an item was or open all the diverse containers was a chore. PoE system has a rather rough interface but it's already leaps ahead of the old IE inventory. And the paperdolls in IE games were kind of ugly, imho inferior to the current PoE implementation. 

 

Kind of against the so popular "didn't need to reinvent the wheel", I believe that the old rusty wheel needed to be changed.

[Sensuki]

PoE system has a rather rough interface but it's already leaps ahead of the old IE inventory. And the paperdolls in IE games were kind of ugly, imho inferior to the current PoE implementation.

It's one thing to say that but if you think it was leaps and bounds better, please give us an example of how it is better. The only improvement IMO is the sort buttons.

 

The Baldur's Gate 1 Paperdolls were fantastic, it was the BG2 Paperdolls that sucked. The 1PP mod fixes this (it is glorious).

Edited August 22, 2014 by Sensuki

[Uomoz]

I actually liked BG2 paperdolls a lot more then BG1, they had a lot more character and were themed to the BG2 artsyle. BG1 paperdolls were kind of bland imho.

 

As I said, the new inventory system condense all the information in a single screen. Removes boring micro-management of weights around different characters, that is not a strategic nor interesting gameplay feature. Gives you one *single* infinite extra container, that works like a bag of holding, but with interesting (strategic!) restrictions.

 

All in all far superior.

[Tartantyco]

I actually liked BG2 paperdolls a lot more then BG1, they had a lot more character and were themed to the BG2 artsyle. BG1 paperdolls were kind of bland imho.

 

 

You're wrong and you should feel bad! The BG2 paper dolls look like burn victims.

[Sensuki]

As I said, the new inventory system condense all the information in a single screen. Removes boring micro-management of weights around different characters, that is not a strategic nor interesting gameplay feature. Gives you one *single* infinite extra container, that works like a bag of holding, but with interesting (strategic!) restrictions.

 

All in all far superior.

It almost sounds like you are reading a description of what the inventory is supposed to achieve rather than what it does achieve.

 

The fact that you put a weapon in your stash and then can't access it to see what it does is pretty dumb, but what's worse is you can craft an item in the blink of an eye and access it straight away, rather than having to go to a Forge or whatever like originally planned.

 

Just seems like gross inconsistency to me.

 

Quite frankly I really enjoy inventory management in Baldur's Gate 1, it fits in perfectly with the adventuring pace as well. BG1 is probably the only IE game that has that "going back to town" feeling like you would get in Diablo, Diablo 2. It's not really required in Icewind Dale, as due to the linear nature of the story going back to town usually coincides with the ending of a chapter, and the loot balance was probably designed around it.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Sensuki