Toggling XP Systems - For a Peaceful Co-Existence!

[IndiraLightfoot]

 

OR shoukd we ask for an option to for a way to turn on/off kill exp for players? Have it still designed to follow the quest exp only progression but for people who are wanting to progress and hit lvl cap earlier be able to? That way people who opt for no kill exp still progress and the game can still be designed around that as they intended and people who want kill exp can get it but design it to where the kills are low but still able to advance past the current intended level?

Would this be the ideal solution? Both parties win and also both parties still have a reason to try each option out?

 

I mean there are people who are enjoying the no kill exp that some people are saying is a totally failure (which is wrong because there wouldnt be people enjoying it if it was) and some people are not enjoying it because they cant get past not being rewarded exp for everything. Why not give an option for both?

 

Because i am really enjoying the hell out of the current system as it is and i dont want my fun hampered by change, but i understand not all people are like me and would like them to have fun as well.

 

 

I have taken this great post as a stepping stone for us towards a solution for that hotly debated xp system issue.

This thread is all about the proposed idea by redneckdevil, nothing else.

 

If you just want to pour your heart out about which xp system you prefer, such as kill xp or quest-xp-only, please do that elsewhere, in the appropriate threads. There are three of them running as of now, so there's plenty of space for venting your xp preferences and frustrations!

 

Here, we will stay true to our topic, namely the apparent solution to this divide in the PoE community. Make the two xp systems compatible!

I will forcefully narrow down this topic even more by telling you which two xp systems that are up for a potential toggle in PoE:

1) The one that Josh & Co has been tinkering on - it's there vision for the game, so it's in by definition. Atm in the beta, and has been clearly stated by the dev Sking - this is quest xp only, including a few xp progress points within the quest, if its long enough.

Note! This is not a thread for discussing the merits of that system, or whether it's an objective xp system, or if it lives up to any perceived promises from Obsidian, etc.

2) The xp system that was in BG2: kill xp, xp for disarming traps, xp for opening locks, xp for a few dialogue choices and simple deeds. This is a system that Josh & Co are very familiar with, and it is one that they are able to insert into a game with hand-placed enemies within the time that is left before the game is released.

Obviously, it won't be an exact copy of AD&D or D&D 3.0/3.5 (or even 4), but it will have all of its basic elements and structures, yes even xp tables that the devs can tweak, and so forth.

 

If you just like the idea, and have nothing to contribute as far as the details go, and exactly how it will be implemented for all difficulty levels, just pop in and write "+1" or "agreed", I suppose, but I'd rather see that you put your little grey cells to good use and expand and/or elaborate upon it. Have a nice discussion.

 

Hopefully, the devs have already considered this solution! I mean, they did listen and made us a toggable UI after the very heated debate about that: one minimalistic and one classic. I hope we get to see that again: one minimalistic and one classic/old-school xp-system as a toggle for a peaceful co-existence between at least those two xp system factions in our community. 

 

Have a fun discussion!

[Silent Winter]

To me it just sounds like doubling up the work, which I'd rather see spent on bug-fixing at this stage.  (dual xp-systems also means dual xp-bug potential).

It's not a bad idea, it's just more work.

 

It's possible modders will mod-in an xp-objective for each enemy and reduce quest-xp accordingly - I'd leave it to that.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Yeah. It's more work, but I figure, if you make both these two pretty big sides of the xp spectrum, as it were, happy by doing it, it's worth it, in good rep and sales as well as in general product satisfaction.

 

How many backers alone, did they have? 71,000 or more? Imagine doing this, and making at least like 15,000 of them much more content about the game, and increasing its replayability for this groups, etc - it all translates to a fat wad of cash, far exceeding the resources they need to spend on it this autumn. If they insert a D&D inspired mock-up quickly in like three beta patches from now, the community will iron out those bugs faster than you can blink (just cf. D:OS development in open beta).

 

I for one wouldn't use that mod - I want gaming experience to have the seal of official approval, as it were (unless a dev puts it in, like Josh did with his mod in F:NV, for instance.

Edited August 22, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot

[Yonjuro]

To me it just sounds like doubling up the work, which I'd rather see spent on bug-fixing at this stage.  (dual xp-systems also means dual xp-bug potential).

It's not a bad idea, it's just more work.

 

It's possible modders will mod-in an xp-objective for each enemy and reduce quest-xp accordingly - I'd leave it to that.

 

 

 Agreed. It would be a lot of work to do a second XP system (and test it) even if if the game had been designed for it in the first place.

 

 Amortizing the quest XP over kills/disarms/lockpicks etc. is a messy problem and getting it right isn't a small task. It's just the sort of thing that modders can do if they want to. 

 

 I'm not in charge of Obsidian's money (not even the tiny fraction of it that I donated to them for PoE), but if I were, I wouldn't want them to spend it on this.

 

 As thought experiment, suppose you were an intern at Obsidian and were given the task to add kill Xp to the Lord Soandso's "daughter" quest. You have, I think, two major objectives (i.e., two places where you currently get XP), confront the cult leader and circle back to Lord Soandso to do whatever you need to do with him.

 

 How do you divide the XP for these two objectives over the enemies/traps etc. in the dungeon and in the wilderness area? What happens when you change the difficulty slider from normal to hard?  There are more enemies - do you grant less XP per enemy for hard mode?  (And, if you do, do you want to listen to the screams of outrage about being penalized for for playing on harder levels?) Also, you're constrained that killing a wolf on map A needs to yield the same XP as killing one on map B - this is beginning to sound like a difficult problem (obviously the solution is to take up the slack in the boss fights, but that's a huge hack, so don't tell anyone). 

 

 Somebody needs to make these and a bunch more decisions and then evaluate them with play testing to make sure it doesn't break the game. I don't think that somebody (actually that's a lot of somebodies to get that done by the release date) should be an Obsidian employee. Leave it to modders.

[aeonsim]

So your suggesting rather than have the developer's designers and QA personal working on adding critical features, keeping kickstarter promises, fixing bugs and polishing the game instead they should dedicate at least 3 people (probably more) to trying to tack on a separate XP system that will only be used by a fraction of the people.

 

Nope really bad idea, my suggestion is that the people who care so much about this use the beta to understand the game structure and then start work on a mod to develop a combat XP system, that should keep them quiet for the next 4-6 months and get rid of most of these annoying posts about how combat XP is the only thing making combat fun in the forums.

[Sarex]

Just hope that fraction of people doesn't turn in to most people, ie. just hope that us Grognards don't make the majority of the player base that is already niche as it is.

 

As for the original post, well I don't know, the xp system is just numbers after all. The main question is going to be if there is enough time to do both systems. Though from what I have seen and heard from the beta, I seriously doubt the game will be released this year, so then again maybe there will be more then enough time.

[IndiraLightfoot]

aeonsim: Who knows? In a week or two, the tables may have turned? And it's you who're feeling that a central aspect of your PoE experience is missing? To me, it's pivotal that as many as possible get a PoE that they are satisified and come back to play over and over. Neither of these two sides are small fractions - it's thousands upon thousands of peeps. This should not and cannot be under-estimated, IMHO.

I've heard quite a few from that side that you personally don't like claiming it's a kickstarter promise not kept. Is it that hard to put yourself in their shoes? I'm a strange breed, or hybrid, heh, as I've been on both sides of the fence, mind you. I was just as passionate about objective xp as you before, and now I'm passionate about making both sides happy.

 

And believe me, you won't need three people and four months to do that work. They are already having the community go through strings to fix some texts and grammatical errors. Let a few dedicated xp-deepheads do it for them in Unity, for instance. All they need is one person supervising the balancing of it, and of course provide all hand-placed enemies with an xp-tag, where xp adjustments is done (entering a single numerical value). Heck, I'd do it myself. I'm a seasoned CRPG:er, well-versed in these systems, and I've been modding Obsidian games for years.

Edited August 22, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot

[aeonsim]

And believe me, you won't need three people and four months to do that work. They are already having the community go through strings to fix some texts and grammatical errors. Let a few dedicated xp-deepheads do it for them in Unity, for instance. All they need is one person supervising the balancing of it, and of course provide all hand-placed enemies with an xp-tag, where xp adjustments is done (entering a single numerical value). Heck, I'd do it myself. I'm a seasoned CRPG:er, well-versed in these systems, and I've been modding Obsidian games for years.

 

Well why not do it then, announce a combat XP mod? Talk to the developers to get an idea of what needs to be done, there should be plenty of people willing to help if it's as important to them as they claim. Start work now and if it's only a going to take 1 person and a week or two then it should easily be doable by a small team of modders over 4 months, so you can have it ready the day it goes live.

 

I suspect it'll be abit more work than you think as if it's done properly they need to add in code to toggle the XP system over, and then implement systems that allow XP to be attached and rewarded to each creature in the game.

 

Then there's the balance aspect is the XP going to be solely for killing stuff or is it a mix of kill and quest? If it's only for killing stuff you now need to go through each route you can take in the game and make sure that there are enough enemies in the area with enough XP assigned to them that you can reach the same level at the same point.

 

Also what happens if the player doesn't fully explore and area and misses some enemies are they now taking a permanent XP loss or do the system adjust XP to compensate for it? Secondly if difficulty is associated with different mob types and numbers how do you balance the XP between the different difficulty levels? Then there are questions like well should all enemies of the same type and level have the same XP? If so do you now need to adjust the mob compositions at some areas to get enough XP?

 

Once you've solved all that then you need a QA team to run through the entire game and check all the different ways of playing to make sure the XP system works and players have the correct amount of XP at the correct point in time. Including for players who like combat XP but only do the critical path and can't be bothered chasing down and killing every last thing on every map. At this point it's into a standard development cycle they'll find problems, you fix problems, they run through the game again all possible ways repeat a few times and you've used up a lot of time for a lot of people.

[Sarex]

Well why not do it then, announce a combat XP mod? Talk to the developers to get an idea of what needs to be done, there should be plenty of people willing to help if it's as important to them as they claim. Start work now and if it's only a going to take 1 person and a week or two then it should easily be doable by a small team of modders over 4 months, so you can have it ready the day it goes live.

 

I suspect it'll be abit more work than you think as if it's done properly they need to add in code to toggle the XP system over, and then implement systems that allow XP to be attached and rewarded to each creature in the game.

 

Then there's the balance aspect is the XP going to be solely for killing stuff or is it a mix of kill and quest? If it's only for killing stuff you now need to go through each route you can take in the game and make sure that there are enough enemies in the area with enough XP assigned to them that you can reach the same level at the same point.

 

Also what happens if the player doesn't fully explore and area and misses some enemies are they now taking a permanent XP loss or do the system adjust XP to compensate for it? Secondly if difficulty is associated with different mob types and numbers how do you balance the XP between the different difficulty levels? Then there are questions like well should all enemies of the same type and level have the same XP? If so do you now need to adjust the mob compositions at some areas to get enough XP?

 

Once you've solved all that then you need a QA team to run through the entire game and check all the different ways of playing to make sure the XP system works and players have the correct amount of XP at the correct point in time. Including for players who like combat XP but only do the critical path and can't be bothered chasing down and killing every last thing on every map. At this point it's into a standard development cycle they'll find problems, you fix problems, they run through the game again all possible ways repeat a few times and you've used up a lot of time for a lot of people.

 

Lol, you are trying to think of how to make it sound complex and it's showing. Also this is not combat xp only system we are talking about.

 

As for how you do the xp system, it's pretty easy. First you look at the main quest line and all the creatures on that quest line, then you make it so that doing quest line you end up somewhere, xp wise, where all the encounters are passable with only the main quest line xp.

 

Then you focus on side quests and the rest of the creatures, here you are focusing on there not being too much wasted xp, ie. you are trying to not get over the xp cap too much.

 

See not that hard, when you are not looking to make it sound complicated.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Sarex

[IndiraLightfoot]

Aeonsim: Perhaps I will do that. And yeah, your no-nonsense run-through of the obstacles ahead certainly feels realistic, including the part of it being slightly tougher than what I reckon it will be.

 

Sarex: Although the number of steps are pretty few, and most of it is basic stuff, this is no walk in the park either. Tracking a number of possible routes and loops, and the number of decisions and constant tweaking you need to make, will at least make us break some sweat over it, that's for sure.

Edited August 22, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot

[Sarex]

Aeonsim: Perhaps I will do that. And yeah, your no-nonsense run-through of the obstacles ahead certainly feels realistic, including the part of it being slightly tougher than what I reckon it will be.

 

Sarex: Although the number of steps are pretty few, and most of it is basic stuff, this is no walk in the park either. Tracking a number of possible routes and loops, and the number of decisions and constant tweaking you need to make, will at least make us break some sweat over it, that's for sure.

 

Yeah it's work like doing anything else in the game, but it's not as complex as he is trying to make it seem.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Sure. As long as you stick to already tried recipes, you'll get a decently tasting cake out of it.

[Sarex]

Sure. As long as you stick to already tried recipes, you'll get a decently tasting cake out of it.

 

No one here is asking for more. They can try their hand at making a better xp system in the next game, when they have time to think about it more.

[aeonsim]

 

Aeonsim: Perhaps I will do that. And yeah, your no-nonsense run-through of the obstacles ahead certainly feels realistic, including the part of it being slightly tougher than what I reckon it will be.

 

Sarex: Although the number of steps are pretty few, and most of it is basic stuff, this is no walk in the park either. Tracking a number of possible routes and loops, and the number of decisions and constant tweaking you need to make, will at least make us break some sweat over it, that's for sure.

 

Yeah it's work like doing anything else in the game, but it's not as complex as he is trying to make it seem.

 

 

The thing is that this would turn into a complex system, sure it's not too complex to implement the basic bits/mechanisms, but to balance and tune it so it works well that is complex (or at least highly repetitive).

 

With software and systems development things that sound simple often aren't because they're part of a network of systems all of which interact with each other in odd ways. It's kinda like some of the stuff I do for my job (biology, genetics & software) the principles are often simple and the basic implementation is easy, but to get it right and track down all the odd edge cases that can horribly break things in a complex system consisting of the interactions between many simple systems takes a lot of time.

 

You can often get 90% of the way there in 10% of the time, the remaining 10% takes 90% of the overall time, and it'll be much the same here. Adding support for this will probably only take a few hours or days. Balancing it and propagating it through the game in a logically consistent manner which produces an enjoyable and balanced result (and testing this) will take up a lot of time. It's certainly doable but for obsidian to do it they would have to take resources away from there currently planned activities it would be much better for a separate group to do this by bringing additional resources into it.

Edited August 22, 2014 by aeonsim

[Fearabbit]

If this really can be implemented easily, I think it would be a good idea. However, you're currently proposing that the kill XP get added on top of the quest XP. That's obviously unbalanced - I'd suggest that if activated, the rewards from objectives and quests get reduced by about two thirds of the amount of XP you can get in a dungeon. So that you can get more XP if you really kill every monster, but you don't end up with way more XP than somebody who chooses the other system.

[Namutree]

If this really can be implemented easily, I think it would be a good idea. However, you're currently proposing that the kill XP get added on top of the quest XP. That's obviously unbalanced - I'd suggest that if activated, the rewards from objectives and quests get reduced by about two thirds of the amount of XP you can get in a dungeon. So that you can get more XP if you really kill every monster, but you don't end up with way more XP than somebody who chooses the other system.

Another idea is to just make combat xp low and thus not have worry too much about balance. Combine this with the fact that combat xp would have to be disabled for the challenge modes and you could just add it on with little thought really. We should keep in mind that poe has a level cap. Extra xp will not break the game.

 

I approve of this idea clearly.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Namutree

[Grand_Commander13]

Good grief will this never end?

 

If you want XP on kills so much, why doesn't Obsidian just give each enemy a kill XP value, then the game quietly deducts the amount of kill XP you've received from future quest XP?

[Namutree]

Good grief will this never end?

 

Probably not. The pro-kill side will likely keep bugging Obsidian about it like the promancers.

 

Should they be called: Killmancers?

[Yonjuro]

 

Well why not do it then, announce a combat XP mod? Talk to the developers to get an idea of what needs to be done, there should be plenty of people willing to help if it's as important to them as they claim. Start work now and if it's only a going to take 1 person and a week or two then it should easily be doable by a small team of modders over 4 months, so you can have it ready the day it goes live.

 

...

 

...

See not that hard, when you are not looking to make it sound complicated.

 

 

 No, I don't see. Show me.     

 

Suppose you were making the mod. Start with these decisions:

 

 Use the example from above, the Lord's "daughter" quest. 

 

1. What's your decision about the difficulty slider? Less XP per event on harder difficulties? If that's the decision, it doesn't sound very different from the objective XP system.

 

2. In that quest you have two entry points into the dungeon, one has overlapping creatures with another quest. You need to divide the XP somehow. What assumption will you make? Do you require a player to kill/disarm/pick locks etc. on both routes to get the full XP for the two objectives? If so, they will underlevel by doing the quest as intended and need to kill everything everywhere to level up. If not, they can become overleveled by always killing everything. 

 

3. Remember that the job here is not to place creatures/traps/locks/quest rewards etc. to get a number that's close to the original (btw, that sounds like an NP complete problem already). The  task is to do a global assignment of XP for events so that the XP numbers are close to the originals everywhere. Do you have an algorithm for that that will finish running by the launch date? If you do have one, it is ok that harder creatures get lower XP values than easier ones (which they will in many cases if you run a matching algorithm? 

 

 

Remember that we aren't arguing whether objective XP vs. (let's call it) event XP (where 'events' are kills, traps etc.) is better here.

 

The question is: Is adding a second, bolted on, XP system a good use of Obsidian's time and money? (And the answer is: no, leave it to modders).

[Sarex]

 No, I don't see. Show me.     

 

Suppose you were making the mod. Start with these decisions:

 

 Use the example from above, the Lord's "daughter" quest. 

 

1. What's your decision about the difficulty slider? Less XP per event on harder difficulties? If that's the decision, it doesn't sound very different from the objective XP system.

 

2. In that quest you have two entry points into the dungeon, one has overlapping creatures with another quest. You need to divide the XP somehow. What assumption will you make? Do you require a player to kill/disarm/pick locks etc. on both routes to get the full XP for the two objectives? If so, they will underlevel by doing the quest as intended and need to kill everything everywhere to level up. If not, they can become overleveled by always killing everything. 

 

3. Remember that the job here is not to place creatures/traps/locks/quest rewards etc. to get a number that's close to the original (btw, that sounds like an NP complete problem already). The  task is to do a global assignment of XP for events so that the XP numbers are close to the originals everywhere. Do you have an algorithm for that that will finish running by the launch date? If you do have one, it is ok that harder creatures get lower XP values than easier ones (which they will in many cases if you run a matching algorithm? 

 

 

Remember that we aren't arguing whether objective XP vs. (let's call it) event XP (where 'events' are kills, traps etc.) is better here.

 

The question is: Is adding a second, bolted on, XP system a good use of Obsidian's time and money? (And the answer is: no, leave it to modders).

 

 

1.Why would difficulty change xp?

 

2.If the creatures are accessible beyond the confines of the quest (which makes sense if another quest can "share" them), ie. by exploring, then I wouldn't count them towards the total xp of the quest. Are we giving xp for picking locks/disarming traps/etc.? Even if we do those, the question would only matter on maybe level 1 through 3, as the xp rewards for those actions would be inconsequential.

 

3.I don't understand your first sentence, you need to reword it. The algorithm already exists for the IE games, why would you need a new one?

 

Why would the system be bolted on. It's not like there is an xp system already in place for the BB.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Sarex

[Yonjuro]

 

....

1. What's your decision about the difficulty slider? Less XP per event on harder difficulties? If that's the decision, it doesn't sound very different from the objective XP system.

 

2. In that quest you have two entry points into the dungeon, one has overlapping creatures with another quest. You need to divide the XP somehow. What assumption will you make? Do you require a player to kill/disarm/pick locks etc. on both routes to get the full XP for the two objectives? If so, they will underlevel by doing the quest as intended and need to kill everything everywhere to level up. If not, they can become overleveled by always killing everything. 

 

3. Remember that the job here is not to place creatures/traps/locks/quest rewards etc. to get a number that's close to the original (btw, that sounds like an NP complete problem already). The  task is to do a global assignment of XP for events so that the XP numbers are close to the originals everywhere. Do you have an algorithm for that that will finish running by the launch date? If you do have one, it is ok that harder creatures get lower XP values than easier ones (which they will in many cases if you run a matching algorithm? 

....

 

1.Why would difficulty change xp?

 

 There are more creatures. E.g., if you go to the wilderness area on 'easy' you fight 3 wolves. If you go there on 'normal' you fight 5 wolves and some of them are senior wolves. If you get 650 XP for a wolf and 1000 XP for a senior wolf then Hard mode will quickly become easier than easy mode for most of the game (except for the very end) because the player will level up much faster.

 

 

 

...

 

 

 

2.If the creatures are accessible beyond the confines of the quest (which makes sense if another quest can "share" them), ie. by exploring, then I wouldn't count them towards the total xp of the quest. Are we giving xp for picking locks/disarming traps/etc.? Even if we do those, the question would only matter on maybe level 1 through 3, as the xp rewards for those actions would be inconsequential.

...

 

 

 I didn't explain this well. If a quest currently yields, say, 20K XP over two objectives in the current objective-based XP system then the sum of the events in the new event-based XP system has to be pretty close to 20K. If it ends up being 2K then the game will be too hard and if it ends up being 200K the game will be too easy.

 

 So, regarding point 2, if you grant XP for kills and don't count them towards the quest, then there's a lot more XP available right? The, let's call them, 'exploration kills' would mean that you can gain levels faster by killing more, right? If you assign event XP under the assumption that the player will use one of the two entry points for the quest, then they can over level by doing all of the events (kills etc.) for both entry points. If you assume they will do that, they will under level if they don't kill everything. The shared XP problem makes this harder to get right.

 

 

 

...

3. Remember that the job here is not to place creatures/traps/locks/quest rewards etc. to get a number that's close to the original (btw, that sounds like an NP complete problem already). 

...

 

 

...

3.I don't understand your first sentence, you need to reword it. 

...

 

 

 What I meant was that this problem would be easier if you had an XP number for each quest and you could populate the areas with whatever creatures you wanted in order to approximately match the XP number that you wanted. Still though, this is an optimization problem to solve (a variant of the so-called "zero-one knapsack problem", I think).

 

 

... The algorithm already exists for the IE games, why would you need a new one?

 

Why would the system be bolted on. It's not like there is an xp system already in place for the BB.

 

 

 The algorithm I mean is assigning XP to events in a way that doesn't make the game ridiculously hard or ridiculously easy. Doing that requires making an XP table that will approximate the current XP objective amounts without making changes to the creature/trap etc. placement, accounting for differing number of creatures at different difficulty levels etc. If you think carefully about how to implement this, it really does seem like a bolted on hack.

 

 It can be done, with a lot of attention to detail and a lot of play testing, but doing it between now and the end of the year (or even into next year if Obsidian can afford to delay the release and can afford the extra money to add a second set of XP rewards) in addition to making the game work as designed?

 

 I think it would be better left as a mod.

 

 If the game is brilliant except for that nagging feeling that the XP rewards are unsatisfying, someone will make the mod.

[redneckdevil]

I think the key is to design it at first with the "no kill" exp in mind flesh it out all the way through.

Then go back and figure how many times someone is going to go through a certain area and what they are gonna deal with. Since u already have the mapping with quest exp already, use that as ur basis and figure out the formula and subtract from the exp u would normally get from the quest to a degree and give the creatures exp. U go in it with the mindset that kill exp is sending the players slightly farther to the level cap than no kill exp players would.

 

Or scrape that ideal and just take the words outta josh's mouth that an kill exp system can quickly be implemented. If so they keep the current system and add the "kill exp" system. Have it just like hardcore mode in fonv where its an option to chose at beginning and that its toggleble.

 

Something as big as exp system is a big thing and more options towards something big cant be bad. Like said, could be an option that made it enjoyable which woukd lead to more followers. With this option, what exactly could be wrong if its something thats quickly implemented?

 

Also i do LOVE current system because its something new to me and enjoying it, but i want my happiness and i want others happy, because the more people happy can only mean good things for this game )

[PrimeJunta]

Balancing two distinct XP systems is a bit of a handful methinks. I think it's most likely we'd just end up with two half-arsed ones and everybody would be unhappy.

 

I'm all for a mod implementing old-skool XP though.

[Immortalis]

Balancing two distinct XP systems is a bit of a handful methinks. I think it's most likely we'd just end up with two half-arsed ones and everybody would be unhappy.

 

I'm all for a mod implementing old-skool XP though.

 

I have to agree.. Kill -xp needs to be balanced correctly or nobody is gonna enjoy this game.. If they didn't design this game at all with kill -xp or even just encounter based xp in mind and try to hack it in a week before launch.. it's gonna set the expectation they gave a s**** when they didn't.. it's gonna be awful and hurt the rest of the game

[Namutree]

 

Balancing two distinct XP systems is a bit of a handful methinks. I think it's most likely we'd just end up with two half-arsed ones and everybody would be unhappy.

 

I'm all for a mod implementing old-skool XP though.

 

I have to agree.. Kill -xp needs to be balanced correctly or nobody is gonna enjoy this game.. If they didn't design this game at all with kill -xp or even just encounter based xp in mind and try to hack it in a week before launch.. it's gonna set the expectation they gave a s**** when they didn't.. it's gonna be awful and hurt the rest of the game

 

Well people could turn it off, and if they just tacked on low combat xp as an option it would only make the game a bit easier. As long as the challenge modes forced you to have them off I don't see why it would be a problem. Not to mention the game has a level cap so more xp wouldn't matter much in the endgame anyway. 

 

"The game is too easy!" Is a complaint you hear mostly after the game is a success, and usually comes from fans. So I say just add a kill xp option and to heck with balance. I was gonna play on normal; now I'll play on hard. (If they add it.)

 

I am assuming kill xp isn't on by default...

Edited August 23, 2014 by Namutree