siril_dana Posted August 21, 2014 Posted August 21, 2014 (edited) An easy solution for this, though it seems that i'm the only one that have a problem with those circles! Edited August 21, 2014 by siril_dana 3
Meepalasheep Posted August 21, 2014 Posted August 21, 2014 (edited) While I don't mind the stealth circles all that much, there should be a setting that goes along with Expert mode that turns them off. Edited August 21, 2014 by Meepalasheep
Shdy314 Posted August 21, 2014 Posted August 21, 2014 An easy solution for this, though it seems that i'm the only one that have a problem with those circles! How in the world will you be able to stealth without them? What is your problem with them?
illathid Posted August 21, 2014 Posted August 21, 2014 (edited) While I don't mind the stealth circles all that much, there should be a setting that goes along with Expert mode that turns them off. Wouldn't that make stealth play pretty much impossible? EDIT: Ninja'd kinda Edited August 21, 2014 by illathid "Wizards do not need to be The Dudes Who Can AoE Nuke You and Gish and Take as Many Hits as a Fighter and Make all Skills Irrelevant Because Magic." -Josh Sawyer
Utukka Posted August 21, 2014 Posted August 21, 2014 It might make it extremely hard...but I'd prefer to be able to turn them off as well. They just ruin the atmosphere for me. 1
Meepalasheep Posted August 21, 2014 Posted August 21, 2014 I mean, maybe, yeah.Stealth was doable in the Fallout games, and those didn't have any stealth circle things. Then again, the stealth systems in those probably had different mechanics behind them
Shdy314 Posted August 21, 2014 Posted August 21, 2014 (edited) I mean, maybe, yeah. Stealth was doable in the Fallout games, and those didn't have any stealth circle things. Then again, the stealth systems in those probably had different mechanics behind them Yeah it worked in Fallout because you had the magical invisibility. If you had enough skill you could stand in front of them even. Stealth in PoE is avoid the circles... Kind of impossible without seeing the circles. You only see them in scout mode which is when you need them. It might make it extremely hard...but I'd prefer to be able to turn them off as well. They just ruin the atmosphere for me. Might? Do you know how the stealth works? Its you trying to keep your own circle from touching the enemies. It will make it extremely hard if not impossible. Edited August 21, 2014 by Shdy314 1
siril_dana Posted August 22, 2014 Author Posted August 22, 2014 I mean, maybe, yeah. Stealth was doable in the Fallout games, and those didn't have any stealth circle things. Then again, the stealth systems in those probably had different mechanics behind them Yeah it worked in Fallout because you had the magical invisibility. If you had enough skill you could stand in front of them even. Stealth in PoE is avoid the circles... Kind of impossible without seeing the circles. You only see them in scout mode which is when you need them. It might make it extremely hard...but I'd prefer to be able to turn them off as well. They just ruin the atmosphere for me. Might? Do you know how the stealth works? Its you trying to keep your own circle from touching the enemies. It will make it extremely hard if not impossible. I know that it is impossible for the stealth system to work with some kind of help (circles) but walking (I like to make my characters walk from time to time) in a tavern or in town with those circles make the screen really ugly to watch. That's why I propose to make a toogle option for that system.
Meepalasheep Posted August 22, 2014 Posted August 22, 2014 Might? Do you know how the stealth works? Its you trying to keep your own circle from touching the enemies. It will make it extremely hard if not impossible. Eh, I could do it.
Bobby Null Posted August 22, 2014 Posted August 22, 2014 The stealth circles currently in the beta are temporary art. Kaz and I were discussing how these should look in the final build just the other day. There will be more discussions in the near future when Josh returns from Europe. Please discuss and share your ideas. 8
siril_dana Posted August 22, 2014 Author Posted August 22, 2014 The stealth circles currently in the beta are temporary art. Kaz and I were discussing how these should look in the final build just the other day. There will be more discussions in the near future when Josh returns from Europe. Please discuss and share your ideas. I think that the toogle should be for walking/running and the stealth system activates separate from than (including stealth animation for characters).
Sensuki Posted August 22, 2014 Posted August 22, 2014 (edited) I think the Stealth button should only stealth the characters you have selected, YMMV. Edited August 22, 2014 by Sensuki 9
siril_dana Posted August 22, 2014 Author Posted August 22, 2014 I think the Stealth button should only stealth the characters you have selected, YMMV. Yes!
sparklecat Posted August 22, 2014 Posted August 22, 2014 The stealth circles currently in the beta are temporary art. Kaz and I were discussing how these should look in the final build just the other day. There will be more discussions in the near future when Josh returns from Europe. Please discuss and share your ideas. That was what I wanted to say - I definitely do not want to have the circles off, but I'd very much like them to look nicer. Maybe replace the solid lines with a blurring of the background where they are or something (not the entire circle, just the outer edge)? Like how the cloak of displacement in BG blurs your character, but for a thin line of the environment where the stealth circles are. 2
PrimeJunta Posted August 22, 2014 Posted August 22, 2014 @Sensuki YMM does not V. This is a no-brainer. Individual stealth please. I think some kind of highlight effect would be better for stealth. 1. Select character(s). 2. Click on stealth. => Screen darkens. => Two concentric lighter areas appear around characters. => Stealthed characters switch into stealth animation, and an icon appears on their portrait. (Inspiration: Arcanum. Prowling FTW!) 3. Select non-stealthed character. => Screen returns to normal, but stealthed characters remain in prowl animation, with the stealth icon on their portrait. 4. Select a stealthed character. => Screen returns to state from step 2. Just my 10¢. 2 I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com
Kiel29 Posted August 22, 2014 Posted August 22, 2014 Although I do agree with all of the suggestions(turning them off, walking, individual suggestions) I'm hesitant to say the artwork itself should change much. Even following the updates and the forums, I had problems understanding exactly how stealth would work. Once I saw the circles in-game however, especially around the enemies, it was obvious and intuitive. If the art does change, don't deviate too much, you've got a great system now. An extra suggestion I'll throw out is to not show the perception circles on non hostile characters. This image just looks ridiculous just walking around in the inn
Labadal Posted August 22, 2014 Posted August 22, 2014 Anything is better than this: http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/566645789821073242/8C571B8603B320C0AF299B86E3DBB5ADDFC7A7F3/ Maybe have the area around the enemies just be a bit brighter. Like some glow or something. Just get rid of those lines.
Meepalasheep Posted August 22, 2014 Posted August 22, 2014 Just to clarify: I think the stealth system as it is now is pretty neat, though I agree that individual stealth should be a thing.And in regards to the stealth circles, I have no problem with them whatsoever, and their current art doesn't even bother me that much. If there is an option for them to be on/off, I'll probably keep them on for my first couple of playthroughs.I was thinking that once people were maybe more familiar with the system, they could turn it off, similar to how one can turn off the circles with AoE attacks. Just another setting for Expert mode to test someone's skill or knowledge with the game's systems, as I believe it would be wholly possible once one knows their way around things. I believe at some point, a player would be able to guess how far their stealth range is, just as people know how large their AoE attacks are.For me, it's not about immersion or anything of the sort. As someone who is going to be doing quite a bit of stealth in this game, I'd like the option to add a little bit more difficulty to it.
Cabamacadaf Posted August 22, 2014 Posted August 22, 2014 The stealth circles currently in the beta are temporary art. Kaz and I were discussing how these should look in the final build just the other day. There will be more discussions in the near future when Josh returns from Europe. Please discuss and share your ideas.That was what I wanted to say - I definitely do not want to have the circles off, but I'd very much like them to look nicer. Maybe replace the solid lines with a blurring of the background where they are or something (not the entire circle, just the outer edge)? Like how the cloak of displacement in BG blurs your character, but for a thin line of the environment where the stealth circles are. Yeah they current circles are very ugly, it'd be nice to have something nicer looking.
Dray Truoc Posted August 22, 2014 Posted August 22, 2014 I have to admit I find the stealth circles a bit obtrusive. I like the idea of being able to make them disappear in expert mode. In other words, you'd have 'invisible' circles...in stealth mode you'd know you need to keep a moderate distance away from enemies to avoid detection. If you get too close, they'll detect you...but I don't need to know exactly how many pixels I have between us. I'd rather have to use judgement and chance it. It'd be a bit more realistic, and less gamey. If Obsidian won't consider taking them out, then I think someone's suggestion earlier in this thread is a good one...to have a blurred transparent circle or very faint opaque one. 4
siril_dana Posted August 22, 2014 Author Posted August 22, 2014 Another thing that bothers me is that in stealth mode you see enemys everywhere, the element of surprise is gone when exploring.
Ztirual Posted August 22, 2014 Posted August 22, 2014 @Sensuki YMM does not V. This is a no-brainer. Individual stealth please. I think some kind of highlight effect would be better for stealth. 1. Select character(s). 2. Click on stealth. => Screen darkens. => Two concentric lighter areas appear around characters. => Stealthed characters switch into stealth animation, and an icon appears on their portrait. (Inspiration: Arcanum. Prowling FTW!) 3. Select non-stealthed character. => Screen returns to normal, but stealthed characters remain in prowl animation, with the stealth icon on their portrait. 4. Select a stealthed character. => Screen returns to state from step 2. Just my 10¢. I like this idea. But instead of darkening the stealthed character or the screen, have the PC simply go into stealth animation, then use perception cones in the direction the NPC is facing - presuming this is possible with present mechanics? The cones can have different degrees/percentages of spotting hidden character, ranging from: close -> high possibility to spot, to; far -> low possibility to spot, to; outside of cone -> zero possibility to spot. This, taking into account use of lighting, line of sight, PCs stealth skills and NPCs perception. Of course, the same mechanic goes for NPCs sneaking as well, and perception becomes quite a useful attribute for the PC, as the higher the perception the wider and longer the cone plus upping the possibility or chance of spotting hidden characters.
Zeeky Posted August 22, 2014 Posted August 22, 2014 Am I the only one that finds it odd that they are circles? Why is vision/detection behind an npc the same as the front? Doesn't really make sense, the direction the npc is facing should have much better detection while behind them should be greatly decreased.
Ztirual Posted August 22, 2014 Posted August 22, 2014 Am I the only one that finds it odd that they are circles? Why is vision/detection behind an npc the same as the front? Doesn't really make sense, the direction the npc is facing should have much better detection while behind them should be greatly decreased. I agree to that. It does make sense to have peripheral awareness behind your back - but whether it is acute or sluggish determines how well one would be able to sense or hear presences beyond eyesight. Though, it should, nevertheless, be far greater in front as in back.
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